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[Issue] make drones emergency warp

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Rashonna 2H Industries	Posted - 2008.08.05 10:32:00 - [1] Everytime my client crashes and my ship gets emergency warped away my drones stay where they are and getting happily killed by rats. Why can't they have some sort of AI that tells them to warp to my ship?
Dzajic Federal Defence Union	Posted - 2008.08.05 11:09:00 - [2] They could either do that, or make NPCs immediately deagress when you get a disco. Loosing 5 mill in drones every time my client bugs up or some idiot in cable maintenance cuts the wrong wire is very very annoying. I never heard of Drake or Raven loosing 5 mill worth of launchers when they disconnected, have you?
Myrhial Arkenath Ghost Festival	Posted - 2008.08.05 13:24:00 - [3] Agreed. If you warp away by your own free will it's all good and well but drones should be added to the emergency warp. Diary of a pod pilot
Nekopyat	Posted - 2008.08.05 15:20:00 - [4] nods I rarely use drones for just this reason, and I never risk T2 drones anymore.
Vladimir Tinakin Caldari Hadean Drive Yards Archaean Cooperative	Posted - 2008.08.05 16:23:00 - [5] Drones don't have warp drives. Fighters do. When you ewarp you go 1M km out, then when you relog/resync you turn around and warp 1M back. The drones would have to follow you in warp out and back for this to work. As much as I'd love ewarp retention of drones, it wouldn't be supported by current mechanics. There's a reason why fighters cost 15M a pop. The best you can hope for is for drones to be 'reeled in' or return to the dronebay, I think. ----------------------------------------------- Hadean Drive Yards
Tchell Dahhn Suddenly Ninjas	Posted - 2008.08.05 17:56:00 - [6] I'll support this, if only the drones instawarp away into never-never land, never to be seen again. I'd just love to see someone losing a PvP battle pull a logoffski, and then see their ship go one way, and their drones, another. That would be funny! We're Recruiting!
Rostran Targo Kinda'Shujaa	Posted - 2008.08.05 18:20:00 - [7] Instead of warping off upon disconnect, the drones should make an attempt to return to the player's ship before it warps off. Anyways, I support this. Hey look! It's a signature! http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html
Zorda	Posted - 2008.08.05 19:37:00 - [8] If it's possible to implement, supported
Trojanman190 D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.08.05 19:42:00 - [9] Be nice if drones at least tried to return to the ship or something.
Herschel Yamamoto Bloodmoney Incorporated	Posted - 2008.08.05 20:54:00 - [10] Even if they just came back under my control when I relogged and came back, that would help immensely. But yes, some solution so that a power flicker while playing doesn't cost me a rack of Hammerhead IIs would be much appreciated, and I don't care too much what that solution is. ------------------ Fix the forums!

Marcus Gideon Excessive Force	Posted - 2008.08.05 21:26:00 - [11] Edited by: Marcus Gideon on 05/08/2008 21:27:24 I'd vote for two things in particular. 1) Drones reestablish connections when you return to the area. That way, if you manually warp away, and turn around, you can Recall them as soon as you arrive instead of Scooping them. One small (and amusing IMO) exploit would be Cloaking. A ship deploys drones, and then Cloaks. When someone approaches the drones to try and steal them, the ship becomes visible and the drones immediately spring into action. 2) Drones are automatically recalled when your ship Warps via D/C. If you happened to send them 200km out, then they probably won't make it back in time. But they would still try and get back before your ship aligns and warps. It makes NO SENSE that the game has a "self preservation" function, that ignores your drones. --- Don't take my ranting personally. I may just be arguing the topic, unless you're saying something stupid, and then I mean every word. "Players don't want Variety. They want THE BEST"
Herschel Yamamoto Bloodmoney Incorporated	Posted - 2008.08.06 01:25:00 - [12] Originally by: Marcus Gideon One small (and amusing IMO) exploit would be Cloaking. A ship deploys drones, and then Cloaks. When someone approaches the drones to try and steal them, the ship becomes visible and the drones immediately spring into action. This is what the retargeting delay on cloaks is for. Of course, that method would be hilarious with a Sin(and since I'm training up Sin skills now, I almost want it to be implemented just for that), but I have no objection to a Black Ops getting the drop on somebody when it's lying in wait to do exactly that. ------------------ Fix the forums!
SkiLLzThaTKiLLz X Free-Space-Ranger Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2008.08.06 01:34:00 - [13] i support this
Marcus Gideon Gallente Excessive Force	Posted - 2008.08.06 02:34:00 - [14] Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto Originally by: Marcus Gideon One small (and amusing IMO) exploit would be Cloaking. A ship deploys drones, and then Cloaks. When someone approaches the drones to try and steal them, the ship becomes visible and the drones immediately spring into action. This is what the retargeting delay on cloaks is for. Of course, that method would be hilarious with a Sin(and since I'm training up Sin skills now, I almost want it to be implemented just for that), but I have no objection to a Black Ops getting the drop on somebody when it's lying in wait to do exactly that. Except the whole complaint against Cloaks needed balanced, is due to the fact that a ship JUST rendered visible can still use Drones or AoE immediately. --- Don't take my ranting personally. I may just be arguing the topic, unless you're saying something stupid, and then I mean every word. "Players don't want Variety. They want THE BEST"
Herschel Yamamoto Bloodmoney Incorporated	Posted - 2008.08.06 05:02:00 - [15] Originally by: Marcus Gideon Except the whole complaint against Cloaks needed balanced, is due to the fact that a ship JUST rendered visible can still use Drones or AoE immediately. Yeah, except that they'd have to aggress you before the drones would do anything if you can't get a lock. And once a drone's active, it can't be scooped. Assuming they're just looking for a cheap steal and not a fight, they'll just run when they decloak you. Hence, it's mostly limited to Black Ops, given that Bombers don't have drone bays, and given the nature of the BO's, the Sin is the only one I'd want to try it with. ------------------ Fix the forums!
Drolus	Posted - 2008.08.07 00:48:00 - [16] Hell Yes! Losing drones like that can be so annoying.
Solar Ray Vanishing Point	Posted - 2008.08.07 08:35:00 - [17] One should not lose their drones because of a random disconnect. Not fair at all. Warping them out is not a good idea, since the server cannot know whether client is disconnected on purpose or not (exploit). However, it makes sense to not switch aggression to drones after their host has left grid. With the exception, of course, that the drones were already aggressed.
Kuranta Minmatar Pator Tech School	Posted - 2008.08.07 14:55:00 - [18] Originally by: Tchell Dahhn I'll support this, if only the drones instawarp away into never-never land, never to be seen again. I'd just love to see someone losing a PvP battle pull a logoffski, and then see their ship go one way, and their drones, another. That would be funny! That would be awesome indeed. And when he logs back in, the drones will return as well, but as rogue drones, attacking their former master.
Aiko Intaki	Posted - 2008.08.07 15:08:00 - [19] Supported. I would also support forcing the drones to return to the ship before warping, or allowing us a configuration option to toggle off the "warp on disconnect" behavior.
Windjammer	Posted - 2008.08.07 17:40:00 - [20] Great idea. Losing an entire flight of drones through no fault of your own is frustrating. Windjammer

Tchell Dahhn Suddenly Ninjas	Posted - 2008.08.07 17:52:00 - [21] Originally by: Windjammer Great idea. Losing an entire flight of drones through no fault of your own is frustrating. This could be further enhanced by checking against the potential for the 'logoffski', by simply having a calculation which checks a) whether the pilot was fighting another person and b) how much into structure the pilot was at the time the disconnect occurred. If the Pilot was fighting against another Pilot, vs. fighting NPC's, and was deep into structure, there would be a chance that they employed the logoffski, and for this reason, I would offer a chance that their drones would either successfully or unsuccessfully return to their dronebay, or return under their control when they returned to the area in question. For the latter, obviously it would be better if they were 'still in the area', for the reason that the other Pilot would likely either scoop them, or destroy them. We're Recruiting!
Windjammer Gallente	Posted - 2008.08.07 18:11:00 - [22] Originally by: Tchell Dahhn Originally by: Windjammer Great idea. Losing an entire flight of drones through no fault of your own is frustrating. This could be further enhanced by checking against the potential for the 'logoffski', by simply having a calculation which checks a) whether the pilot was fighting another person and b) how much into structure the pilot was at the time the disconnect occurred. If the Pilot was fighting against another Pilot, vs. fighting NPC's, and was deep into structure, there would be a chance that they employed the logoffski, and for this reason, I would offer a chance that their drones would either successfully or unsuccessfully return to their dronebay, or return under their control when they returned to the area in question. For the latter, obviously it would be better if they were 'still in the area', for the reason that the other Pilot would likely either scoop them, or destroy them. Returning drones to the pilots control (see the bold font of your quote) would be nice and a step in the right direction, but I still like the OP's idea better. Look at drones as a weapon. When you emergency warp out due to client or computer crash, you don't leave your guns or launchers behind. Why should your drones be different in this regard? Windjammer
Tchell Dahhn Suddenly Ninjas	Posted - 2008.08.07 18:33:00 - [23] Originally by: Windjammer Look at drones as a weapon. When you emergency warp out due to client or computer crash, you don't leave your guns or launchers behind. Why should your drones be different in this regard? By the nature of the actual action of the drones, they're not physically attached to your ship. Some could argue that they're 'tethered' by the programming that controls them, and that could be a viable RP aspect to why they might return, but whatever. I look at it this way - If I'm throwing baseballs at someone, and decide to book it (or I'm pulled off for some strange reason) I'm not going to automatically find my baseballs if/when I return. IBT Drones != Baseballs argument. We're Recruiting!
DeviloftheHell RaaFharaX Omega Alliance	Posted - 2008.08.07 19:56:00 - [24]
Tularemia	Posted - 2008.08.08 01:16:00 - [25] Edited by: Tularemia on 08/08/2008 01:16:10 Why don't the drones just continue to attack the rats etc if you disconnect and then return to your control when you return. Since we get the lag drawback of drones acting like players on the grid why don't we get the benefit of them behaving like them. This means that people wouldn't log off as an exploit, but would give the drones a fighting chance of survival.
Azuraito Caldari State Protectorate	Posted - 2008.08.08 09:26:00 - [26] Next they will be suggesting a "Easy/Normal/Hard" option for eve! I have to disagree, if you cant afford to lose it, dont use it Not Supported
Windjammer Gallente	Posted - 2008.08.08 20:28:00 - [27] Originally by: Tchell Dahhn Originally by: Windjammer Look at drones as a weapon. When you emergency warp out due to client or computer crash, you don't leave your guns or launchers behind. Why should your drones be different in this regard? By the nature of the actual action of the drones, they're not physically attached to your ship. Some could argue that they're 'tethered' by the programming that controls them, and that could be a viable RP aspect to why they might return, but whatever. I look at it this way - If I'm throwing baseballs at someone, and decide to book it (or I'm pulled off for some strange reason) I'm not going to automatically find my baseballs if/when I return. IBT Drones != Baseballs argument. Well, no, they're not attached to the ship. That's one of their downsides. Travel time to, from and between targets. I agree "the programming which controls them" can be used as a story line justification for the OP's desired behaviour. Currently there really isn't an RP line of explanation for what occurs to cause emergency warp out. It would be easy to invent one, but I haven't seen it done so far. Something along the lines of; an onboard power surge causing a ship wide computer crash which breaks the neural interface between ship and pod. This then engages emergency fail safes which include an automatic emergency warp out, etc. This could easily include a provision for any deployed drones. The baseball analogy breaks down too easily. You could say that missiles or projectiles are like baseballs and that would work. Drones aren't a weapon you're throwing at an enemy. Your baseballs (missiles, projectiles) either hit or miss and then stay where they are. They aren't designed to come back. Drones are mobile guns which are designed to come back. Windjammer
Windjammer Gallente	Posted - 2008.08.08 20:31:00 - [28] Originally by: Azuraito Next they will be suggesting a "Easy/Normal/Hard" option for eve! I have to disagree, if you cant afford to lose it, dont use it Not Supported Using that reasoning, would you be happy if you lost your ship everytime your ISP failed or your computer crashed or the client crashed or the cat walked across your keyboard, etc.? How about if you just lost your guns and/or launchers evertime one of those things happened? Windjammer
Taunting Yu Gallente Hephaestus Technologies	Posted - 2008.08.08 20:52:00 - [29] I'll add my signature to the petition. If this can be reasonably implemented, it should be implemented. I'm going to also agree that this should only really apply when PvP timers have not been engaged: i.e. when running missions, ratting, and/or mining.
Fahtim Meidires Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.08.08 20:57:00 - [30] Originally by: Taunting Yu I'm going to also agree that this should only really apply when PvP timers have not been engaged: i.e. when running missions, ratting, and/or mining. No reason not to support it in this form.

Tchell Dahhn Suddenly Ninjas	Posted - 2008.08.08 23:28:00 - [31] Originally by: Windjammer Drones are mobile guns which are designed to come back. Sure, they're designed to come back... ...when you command them to do so. Are you sending that command? No. If you fly away after a fight, do they automatically come back? No. Why would it be any different to assume that they would just 'return' to your ship when you emergency warp out, especially given the possibility that you're performing a logoffski. Don't get me wrong - from an RP aspect, the computers could suddenly engage the 'callback' command, having them warp with you, but given the chance that logoffski happens (likely? possibly?) more often than people losing connection, why don't we just leave it 'status quo'? I'd also argue that, if you are having consistent connectivity issues, you should damn well do something about it - it's not always CCP's fault that your computer, your ISP, or your technical skillset... ...sucks. We're Recruiting!
Herschel Yamamoto Bloodmoney Incorporated	Posted - 2008.08.09 00:39:00 - [32] Originally by: Tchell Dahhn Originally by: Windjammer Drones are mobile guns which are designed to come back. Sure, they're designed to come back... ...when you command them to do so. Are you sending that command? No. If you fly away after a fight, do they automatically come back? No. Why would it be any different to assume that they would just 'return' to your ship when you emergency warp out, especially given the possibility that you're performing a logoffski. Don't get me wrong - from an RP aspect, the computers could suddenly engage the 'callback' command, having them warp with you, but given the chance that logoffski happens (likely? possibly?) more often than people losing connection, why don't we just leave it 'status quo'? I'd also argue that, if you are having consistent connectivity issues, you should damn well do something about it - it's not always CCP's fault that your computer, your ISP, or your technical skillset... ...sucks. So would you be opposed to leaving the status quo in place, but having the drones come back under your control when you get back on grid with them? It wouldn't help people who logoffski, but it'd save those of us with bad power grids from having to watch several million of Hammerhead IIs getting calmly blown up as I slowboat 50 km to try to get them back. ------------------ Fix the forums!
Tchell Dahhn Suddenly Ninjas	Posted - 2008.08.09 02:02:00 - [33] Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto So would you be opposed to leaving the status quo in place, but having the drones come back under your control when you get back on grid with them? It wouldn't help people who logoffski, but it'd save those of us with bad power grids from having to watch several million of Hammerhead IIs getting calmly blown up as I slowboat 50 km to try to get them back. I'd support that, absolutely. I actually think it's dumb that it doesn't work like that now. We're Recruiting!
Natalia Kovac Phoenix Tribe	Posted - 2008.08.09 02:14:00 - [34] I think as a compromise, they could just stop rats shooting your drones once the player has e-warped due to disconnect. PvP, you know you probably expect to lose a few drones. And if that is from a server problem, well it doesn't make that much difference. But NPC rats killing your drones if you drop connection, and wiping out your profit for the next x amount of spawns? That just feels vindictive.
Davina Braben	Posted - 2008.08.09 09:48:00 - [35] I'd go for NPCs deaggressing your drones and them auto reconnecting to your ship when you reconnect and warp back in. That seems not sploitable for PVP purposes (the drones are still there so players can shoot them while solving the basic problem of losing drones because of stuff outside of your control.
Windjammer Gallente	Posted - 2008.08.09 19:00:00 - [36] Originally by: Tchell Dahhn Originally by: Windjammer Drones are mobile guns which are designed to come back. Sure, they're designed to come back... ...when you command them to do so. Are you sending that command? No. If you fly away after a fight, do they automatically come back? No. You're also not commanding your ship to warp out under emergency warp out protocol, but it still happens. If you "fly away after a fight" leaving your drones, that's abandonment. However in that case it's an act you have a choice in. In an emergency warp out you don't have a choice. Originally by: Tchell Dahhn Why would it be any different to assume that they would just 'return' to your ship when you emergency warp out, especially given the possibility that you're performing a logoffski. Don't get me wrong - from an RP aspect, the computers could suddenly engage the 'callback' command, having them warp with you, but given the chance that logoffski happens (likely? possibly?) more often than people losing connection, why don't we just leave it 'status quo'? If a ship has it's drones out, it's usually fighting. If a ship can warp away from a fight, why would it perform the logoffski? The emergency warp out doesn't work if the ship is scrambled. Or do I have something wrong here? Originally by: Tchell Dahhn I'd also argue that, if you are having consistent connectivity issues, you should damn well do something about it - it's not always CCP's fault that your computer, your ISP, or your technical skillset... ...sucks. Personally, I have what most consider to be a pretty good ISP. One of the major cable companies. Our service still, occasionally, goes down. Many other people do not have as nice a service as I do and I know they suffer from connectivity issues. Not much you can do about such things. There are only so many service providers in any one area and all of them go out sometime. While it's not always CCP's fault, we both know that sometimes their servers crash, though less than they used to. The point is, disconnects happen that are real and not just logoffski's. Logoffski's are a problem, but I don't see them being exploited by having this feature of drone retrieval implemented. Windjammer
Akiba Penrose The Movement	Posted - 2008.08.09 19:27:00 - [37]
Drolus	Posted - 2008.08.11 19:40:00 - [38] It sure would be nice if one of the CSM's could actually take on the mantle of 'Lord of the Drones' and look at all the issues concerning drones and amalgate them in one post/document. There are a myriad of things wrong with drones/droneUI that should all be looked at in relation to each other.
Tempest Inferno	Posted - 2008.08.12 01:43:00 - [39] Originally by: Windjammer The emergency warp out doesn't work if the ship is scrambled. Or do I have something wrong here? I have seen emergency warp break ONE warp scram at +1 strength. It will not warp under +2. I think this was more to allow a system where a ship in a mission that got disconnected can break the + 0.1 (not accurate) strength of an npc scram ship. I do supprot a change to the drone system. if i move my laptop out of range of the router it disconnects, if i move back in range it will reconnect. (when setup properly) why cant drones reconnect once you are back within range of them?
Windjammer Gallente	Posted - 2008.08.12 18:16:00 - [40] Originally by: Tempest Inferno Originally by: Windjammer The emergency warp out doesn't work if the ship is scrambled. Or do I have something wrong here? I have seen emergency warp break ONE warp scram at +1 strength. It will not warp under +2. I think this was more to allow a system where a ship in a mission that got disconnected can break the + 0.1 (not accurate) strength of an npc scram ship. I do supprot a change to the drone system. if i move my laptop out of range of the router it disconnects, if i move back in range it will reconnect. (when setup properly) why cant drones reconnect once you are back within range of them? Note: Within the context of a logoffski in a PvP engagement; the scrambler will only have effect if it was engaged prior to the targets log off. If the target logs off before the scrambler engages, it will appear that the target is breaking the scramble during the emergency warp out and this will occur regardless of how strong the scramble is. Good analogy on the reconnect issue. Aptly put. Why can't the drones reconnect when you get back in range of them? Damn good question. Regards, Windjammer



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