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Zaragram Sarikusa
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Posted - 2008.08.05 20:10:00 -
[1]
I'm looking to invest some ISK, but I'm really not sure how to do it without getting scammed. I'm fine in general gameplay, but that's based around my policy of not giving people money up front and obviously can't apply here. The stickied guides only seem to cover IPO creation rather than investment, so can someone give me advice on this? |
Packtu'sa
Nabaal Construction and Industrials Corp
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Posted - 2008.08.05 20:13:00 -
[2]
There is never a guarantee, and that's part of the risk in investing. My advice is to browse this forum daily, get to know things for a month or two, and then judge for yourself whether or not something is a scam.
Packtu'sa [NCIC]
Founder/CEO, Nabaal Construction and Industrials Corp |
Zaragram Sarikusa
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Posted - 2008.08.05 20:25:00 -
[3]
Obviously there's no guarantee, but there must be things people do to reassure potential investors, and also signs that would point to a scam. Any advice on what those might be? |
YouGotRipped
Ewigkeit
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Posted - 2008.08.05 20:29:00 -
[4]
Simple, play the scammer role.
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Shadarle
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Posted - 2008.08.05 20:30:00 -
[5]
 Originally by: Zaragram Sarikusa
Obviously there's no guarantee, but there must be things people do to reassure potential investors, and also signs that would point to a scam. Any advice on what those might be?
Read a bunch of the IPO threads here. I doubt you'll have this question any longer once you put in even a tiny bit of effort to look into things.
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Packtu'sa
Nabaal Construction and Industrials Corp
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Posted - 2008.08.05 20:31:00 -
[6]
Originally by: YouGotRipped
Simple, play the scammer role.
 Seriously though, he's got a point. Think about what you would do as a scammer, and look at those things in other offerings.
There are also plenty of 'joke' threads with fake scams which point out a lot of scamming techniques. As I said, look around.
Packtu'sa [NCIC]
Founder/CEO, Nabaal Construction and Industrials Corp |
Gremrod
Minmatar
DEEzNUTS-DzN
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Posted - 2008.08.05 20:54:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Gremrod on 05/08/2008 20:54:56
Look into this IPO: http://www.eve-iss.com/ISSO/
It appears they are still in business and have a PDF file that spells out all their operations. If this is a scam it is a very well put together one.
Anyone have an insight on this specific IPO?
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Packtu'sa
Nabaal Construction and Industrials Corp
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Posted - 2008.08.05 20:58:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Gremrod
Edited by: Gremrod on 05/08/2008 20:54:56
Look into this IPO: http://www.eve-iss.com/ISSO/
It appears they are still in business and have a PDF file that spells out all their operations. If this is a scam it is a very well put together one.
Anyone have an insight on this specific IPO?
ISSO was a legitimate IPO which closed down months ago. To my knowledge, it is the largest IPO in the history of EVE.
Packtu'sa [NCIC]
Founder/CEO, Nabaal Construction and Industrials Corp |
Kwint Sommer
Caldari
XERCORE
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Posted - 2008.08.05 21:20:00 -
[9]
Originally by: YouGotRipped
Simple, play the scammer role.
He speaks from personal experience and judging from the 5B he just got it's going pretty well.
Purchasing and Shipping Moon Minerals |
YouGotRipped
Ewigkeit
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Posted - 2008.08.05 21:33:00 -
[10]
Edited by: YouGotRipped on 05/08/2008 21:33:24
Originally by: Kwint Sommer
Originally by: YouGotRipped
Simple, play the scammer role.
He speaks from personal experience and judging from the 5B he just got it's going pretty well.
Learn to count.
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Idrift
Caldari
Meta Trading Corporation
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Posted - 2008.08.05 21:52:00 -
[11]
There is no sure way. I lost a billion to a scammer who felt the need to rub it in people's faces. I lost a billion to a blue chipper who just stopped logging on. I am done investing in anyone other than myself. 
The only advice I can give is don't invest what you can't afford to loose.
While the losses sucked it didn't cripple me in any way and I am now far stronger financially then I was back then.
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Kvander Godalming
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Posted - 2008.08.06 00:00:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Kvander Godalming on 06/08/2008 00:00:35
Originally by: Zaragram Sarikusa
I'm looking to invest some ISK, but I'm really not sure how to do it without getting scammed. I'm fine in general gameplay, but that's based around my policy of not giving people money up front and obviously can't apply here. The stickied guides only seem to cover IPO creation rather than investment, so can someone give me advice on this?
There is never a surefire way to protect your investments, but the most obvious advice is to do your research before investing. Look for a business plan that isn't ******ed on its face. Push for an audit so you know the guy is actually able to do whatever he claims he plans to do with the capital he raises through the IPO. Look to see if other respected members of the MD community are investing (this is not always a good sign -- I recall a number of people saying, when the Plato Fund first started, that any idiot could see this was a scam -- but generally speaking, you can usually rely on the judgment of others. At a minimum you at least will be less embarrassed if it goes belly up, i.e., "But even X thought it was a sound investment!")
And as usual, never invest money you cannot afford to lose. I presently have 200 mil invested in Plato and DragonRiderTao, the former of which had a strong record of returns and the latter of which was cheered almost unanimously by MD forum-goers, which was assurance enough for me even without an audit. So far I have not been disappointed with either. Moreover, since I raised the capital for the investments by buying/selling one of the last 30-day GTC's, it wouldn't have been any great tragedy if both ventures had failed and I'd lost all my money, since it was all windfall income anyhow.
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Lubimchik
Power Seed Enterprises
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Posted - 2008.08.06 07:41:00 -
[13]
Give me iskies and ill double it and send it back to you...
This is not a scam... honest.. mhmm... gogogogo
I want your stuffz too
tyvm
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Ambo
Dirty Deeds Corp.
Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2008.08.06 08:14:00 -
[14]
You can never be sure, even when the investment seems rock solid, the guy has a great reputation, etc. It can still, and frequently does become a scam (or and 'I can't be arsed to log in and sort it out' which amounts to the same thing)
I've been messing with the investment market in Eve for a little over a year now. I've invested in about 20 different IPOs/banks and 5 ended up stealing my cash while 3 payed such a pitiful return that I should not really have bothered.
Overall I've made about 7 bil profit from dividends and sale of shares but I've also lost 5.9 bil to scams... (4.5 bil of that in the last 2 months, I was doing so well!)
My advice would be to just treat it as a bit of fun. When you invest money, do not expect to get it back. If you can afford to lose a few billion then have some fun with it, you might get lucky and make a lot of money back for almost zero effort. If you can't afford to lose it then don't give it to someone else.
--------------------------------------
Trader? Investor? Just want to track your finances? Check out EMMA |
Packtu'sa
Nabaal Construction and Industrials Corp
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Posted - 2008.08.06 08:18:00 -
[15]
The current state of the investment market makes investing a really.. well, I wouldn't try to retire with ISK, I'll leave it at that.
Originally by: YouGotRipped
Edited by: YouGotRipped on 05/08/2008 23:41:42
Can you please not edit your posts every time you think of a comment wittier than the last?
Packtu'sa [NCIC]
Founder/CEO, Nabaal Construction and Industrials Corp |
YouGotRipped
Ewigkeit
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Posted - 2008.08.06 09:34:00 -
[16]
Edited by: YouGotRipped on 06/08/2008 09:44:35
Originally by: Packtu'sa
Originally by: YouGotRipped
Edited by: YouGotRipped on 05/08/2008 23:41:42
Can you please not edit your posts every time you think of a comment wittier than the last?
This is the fourth time I get this complaint.
Not to worry though, there's still enough time to get used to it.
P.S. Usually when I edit my posts I don't replace entire ideas but in the case of my above post I felt that prescribing scopolamine to a braindead individual was definitely a waste of chemicals.
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testalt01
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Posted - 2008.08.06 09:54:00 -
[17]
Put some effort into investigating the IPO yourself. It is not really a completely effortless way to grow your ISK as some people would have you believe.
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Astorothe
Aperture Science Industries
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Posted - 2008.08.06 10:43:00 -
[18]
Research, research, research.
Make some educated decisions based on a few hours research into the current and past IPO's and generally avoid IPO's from untested/newer characters.
As a final word of cautionm, don't invest in something you can't afford NOT to lose money in.
My 2c.
Aperture Science Industries are recruiting players from Perth, Australia | Eve Online Web Design Services |
Salvo Brunel
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Posted - 2008.08.06 11:23:00 -
[19]
I see investments as a trade of money for a character's good reputation. The investor gives ISK, the IPO / bond issuer gives their reputation for honesty and competence. If the issuer fails to deliver returns, their reputation suffers accordingly.
So my first question is: how much is the issuer's good name worth to them. If the character has been around a long time, has been active on the forums and is rich, they are not going to blow their good reputation for a few billion ISK.
If the character's reputation is clearly worth more than money they are asking for then invest, unless, the plan has significant flaws or risks. The person is much more important than the plan. If the plan doesn't work out an reputable issues will find a way of *at least* refunding the principal.
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Block Ukx
H A V O C
The Requiem
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Posted - 2008.08.06 11:51:00 -
[20]
How not to get scammed? First of all, as many have pointed out, there is no guaranteed that the IPO owner will keep his word and not disappear with your investment. CCPÆs policy is very clear regarding investment scams.
Aside from this major barrier in the stock market, there are certain things you can do to not get scam in terms of purchasing bogus shares. The first thing to look at is the shares themselves. Typically CEOs will put important information in the company description, like ôDo Not Trade.ö Second, make sure the IPO published a prospectus and is very important that you not only read it, but understand the terms and risks involve in the business plan. Third, make sure the IPO was reviewed in this forum. Never invest in someone that has not come to this forum and discuss their proposed plan. Shares sold in the Sell Forum that were never discussed in the MD Forums are typically a scam.
BSAC Mineral Market Manipulation (MinMa) Information Desk |
KtoJest
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.08.06 13:19:00 -
[21]
Quote:
I'm looking to invest some ISK,
put it in product or commodity, and sleep nights.
even though the auditors, in this forum, do a yeoman job in filtering out the crap before it hits the market, there is no telling what happens a week later. and you may not find out about it till weeks later.
look at the secondary market. it is unbelievably thin. which means if you have to sell you may not find any suitable buy offers.
even the players with established reps close down shop. some ante up the initial IPO price, some do not, others are yet to be found.
look at the dividend/interest payments. you can do better trading CL-S, in station.
...for what it's worth ;) |
Tiirae
The New Era
HUZZAH FEDERATION
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Posted - 2008.08.11 01:16:00 -
[22]
Just don't bother. I can't understand why people actually subscribe to any IPOs or invest money in other ways. Roll a trade alt, have him sit in Jita with buy/sell orders for pirate implants or t2 battleships or something, update them once a week. You will make more money for less effort than it would take to check these forums for scam warnings.
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