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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Tear Miner
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
102
   |
Posted - 2012.03.20 23:28:00 -
[1] - Quote
Player volunteer systems are never a good idea. If you want some precedence look no further than Ultima Online's troubles with class action lawsuits, general power abuse scandals, etc. Also, Asheron's Call's AEGIS program was shutdown for similar reasons (not sure about any lawsuits though.)
Instead of enriching the game, so far I've just seen ISD using poor judgement in forum moderation. And while this may seem like a small & minor issue, it's more than likely just the tip of the iceberg. |
Akirei Scytale
Test Alliance Please Ignore
1021
|
Posted - 2012.03.20 23:29:00 -
[2] - Quote
Well, clearly, all that is expected is blanket locking and snap judgments. I am capable of this. Time to apply!
A vote for Akirei is a vote for Awesome! |
No1ne
Braaaaap Squad
Spacebeans
1
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Posted - 2012.03.20 23:30:00 -
[3] - Quote
/signed |
Florestan Bronstein
United Highsec Front
The 99 Percent
460
|
Posted - 2012.03.20 23:30:00 -
[4] - Quote
Tear Miner wrote:Player volunteer systems are never a good idea. If you want some precedence look no further than Ultima Online's class action lawsuits, general power abuse scandals, etc. Also, Asheron's Call's AEGIS program was shutdown for similar reason (not sure about any lawsuits though.)
Instead of enriching the game, so far I've just seen ISD using poor judgement in forum moderation. And while this may seem like a small & minor issue, it's more than likely just the tip of the iceberg.
ISD is a lot more than just forum mods
leveraging volunteers as bughunters (ECAID) or to help/educate new players (STAR) has no obvious drawbacks imo
don't know much about YARR and don't care about Mercury or IC but lumping all of ISD together with one annoying forum mod seems kinda unfair. |
Akirei Scytale
Test Alliance Please Ignore
1021
|
Posted - 2012.03.20 23:31:00 -
[5] - Quote
Florestan Bronstein wrote:Tear Miner wrote:Player volunteer systems are never a good idea. If you want some precedence look no further than Ultima Online's class action lawsuits, general power abuse scandals, etc. Also, Asheron's Call's AEGIS program was shutdown for similar reason (not sure about any lawsuits though.)
Instead of enriching the game, so far I've just seen ISD using poor judgement in forum moderation. And while this may seem like a small & minor issue, it's more than likely just the tip of the iceberg. ISD is a lot more than just forum mods
They're also badposters
A vote for Akirei is a vote for Awesome! |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
966
|
Posted - 2012.03.20 23:32:00 -
[6] - Quote
My only problem is that forum bans aren't handed out enough.
Mr Epeen 
Me too!-á I ate one sour, too! |
Andski
GoonWaffe
3249
|
Posted - 2012.03.20 23:33:00 -
[7] - Quote
interstellar sycophant division
"WeGÇÖre a professional Merc Alliance, like PL" ~ snot shot, 2012 |
Tear Miner
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
102
|
Posted - 2012.03.20 23:34:00 -
[8] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:My only problem is that forum bans aren't handed out enough. Mr Epeen
I can understand why obvious spam threads are locked, but when a post that is Eve related is censored, there's an example of poor judgement. One could also argue the forum was made worse by said poor judgement. |
Ai Shun
394
|
Posted - 2012.03.20 23:35:00 -
[9] - Quote
Florestan Bronstein wrote:ISD is a lot more than just forum mods
leveraging volunteers as bughunters (ECAID) or to help/educate new players (STAR) has no obvious drawbacks imho
It would work well if they knew the subject matter and had some guidelines to follow. After all, it does free up some development / community support / GM resources for other, more important tasks. And one would expect players who volunteer to know some of the game at least. A recent example makes me wonder if that is the case for all of them though.
|
Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
465
|
Posted - 2012.03.20 23:36:00 -
[10] - Quote
I like'd this thread. Look at me, ma. LOOK AT ME
shiptoastin' liek a baws |
Azure Moonlight
Atomic Core Industries and Science
24
|
Posted - 2012.03.20 23:36:00 -
[11] - Quote
Can they actually ban? Just thinkin of this Oni Mawaha(whatever his name was) that spamed the forum just recently. All his threads got locked, but he just made more. Thats a little awkward, why not delete them and ban this guy?
For your attention!
Market order modification fee (anti-botting, more interesting trading)
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=78351 |
Oni Mawashi
Sadistic Retribution
Sadistic Empire
12
|
Posted - 2012.03.20 23:37:00 -
[12] - Quote
Florestan Bronstein wrote:Tear Miner wrote:Player volunteer systems are never a good idea. If you want some precedence look no further than Ultima Online's class action lawsuits, general power abuse scandals, etc. Also, Asheron's Call's AEGIS program was shutdown for similar reason (not sure about any lawsuits though.)
Instead of enriching the game, so far I've just seen ISD using poor judgement in forum moderation. And while this may seem like a small & minor issue, it's more than likely just the tip of the iceberg. ISD is a lot more than just forum mods leveraging volunteers as bughunters (ECAID) or to help/educate new players (STAR) has no obvious drawbacks imho
apart from not having a clue how to moderate they pretend to know what they talking about in rookie help channel but the new players help each out more than ISD from actual experience rather from whats being read from the eve wiki |
Xenophon Zateki
Vetrox Technologies
2
|
Posted - 2012.03.20 23:37:00 -
[13] - Quote
Surprised they haven't locked this thread because of "Discussion of forum moderation."
What kind of rule is that, anyway? |
Andski
GoonWaffe
3249
|
Posted - 2012.03.20 23:38:00 -
[14] - Quote
Azure Moonlight wrote:Can they actually ban? Just thinkin of this Oni Mawaha(whatever his name was) that spamed the forum just recently. All his threads got locked, but he just made more. Thats a little awkward, why not delete them and ban this guy?
I believe they have to escalate to take any kind of punitive action against accounts.
"WeGÇÖre a professional Merc Alliance, like PL" ~ snot shot, 2012 |
Tear Miner
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
106
|
Posted - 2012.03.20 23:46:00 -
[15] - Quote
Xenophon Zateki wrote:Surprised they haven't locked this thread because of "Discussion of forum moderation."
What kind of rule is that, anyway?
I was trying to be as general as possible so as not to mention any specific cases, but I think the original incident of locking the post that was in fact Eve related does warrant some discussion, so long as its constructive and civil. As for all the other reactionary spam posts, yeah those should be locked. |
Patient 2428190
DEGRREE'Fo'FREE Internet Business School
123
|
Posted - 2012.03.20 23:53:00 -
[16] - Quote
Players are already the Q&A department, the marketing department, the primary beta testers for Twilight Online and lolmoney bags to keep the Vikings in buckets of coke.
These forums are cesspit at best, nothing a player could do would change that. |
Akirei Scytale
Test Alliance Please Ignore
1024
|
Posted - 2012.03.20 23:55:00 -
[17] - Quote
Oni Mawashi wrote:Florestan Bronstein wrote:Tear Miner wrote:Player volunteer systems are never a good idea. If you want some precedence look no further than Ultima Online's class action lawsuits, general power abuse scandals, etc. Also, Asheron's Call's AEGIS program was shutdown for similar reason (not sure about any lawsuits though.)
Instead of enriching the game, so far I've just seen ISD using poor judgement in forum moderation. And while this may seem like a small & minor issue, it's more than likely just the tip of the iceberg. ISD is a lot more than just forum mods leveraging volunteers as bughunters (ECAID) or to help/educate new players (STAR) has no obvious drawbacks imho apart from not having a clue how to moderate they pretend to know what they talking about in rookie help channel but the new players help each out more than ISD from actual experience rather from whats being read from the eve wiki
With the amount that I genuinely help newbros in channels like EUNI, I could seriously be a badass ISD.
I promise to lock threads randomly too.
A vote for Akirei is a vote for Awesome! |
Nimbus Cloud Liebrum
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2012.03.21 00:04:00 -
[18] - Quote
their locking again. hurry
Peaceful Explorer |
Jade Scytale
Okami Syndicate
2
|
Posted - 2012.03.21 00:09:00 -
[19] - Quote
banning CSM candidates too! |
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CCP Navigator
C C P
C C P Alliance
1026
|
Posted - 2012.03.21 00:16:00 -
[20] - Quote
I have no problem with a thread like this existing. if you want to question why certian bodies exist, you are more than welcome to do so.
If you think that you can use this thread as a bashing platform or an area to insult people who give their free time to help everyone in EVE, that is not going to fly.
As long as this thread is constructive and polite then it can remain open. Once that is no longer the case, it will be locked.
CCP Navigator -Community Manager |
|
Ashley SchmidtVonGoldberg
1-800-FUBAR
35
|
Posted - 2012.03.21 00:22:00 -
[21] - Quote
my main is on its 2nd ban for using the world ****** about the general eve community. I can live with that otherwise it would just completely break down into all out youtube style abuse.
The only things i dont like are mods moving threads that are in one section to another without reading them or basing them just on the title. Unless they are severely overworked they need to stop being so lax as its annoying as hell
Thats me done |
Jade Scytale
Okami Syndicate
2
|
Posted - 2012.03.21 00:24:00 -
[22] - Quote
CCP Navigator wrote:I have no problem with a thread like this existing. if you want to question why certian bodies exist, you are more than welcome to do so.
If you think that you can use this thread as a bashing platform or an area to insult people who give their free time to help everyone in EVE, that is not going to fly.
As long as this thread is constructive and polite then it can remain open. Once that is no longer the case, it will be locked.
He locked a post that was in no way, shape or form unrelated to EVE. And then proceeded to repeatedly lock people trying to link said video, which by the way, was hilarious and celebrated the game.
Just because someone gives up his free time does not mean he deserves my respect. He has to DO A GOOD JOB to get that. |
Ajita al Tchar
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
133
|
Posted - 2012.03.21 00:28:00 -
[23] - Quote
I think that it would be nice if there was some venue for reporting chat channel problems. For example, often the conversation in the Help channel devolves into something that has nothing to do with help, and actual legitimate questions from people who need assistance/advice are ignored in the flood of retardation. Personally, I would like to have the ISDs available to pop into a channel and act upon a complaint (but of course, there's no good way of reporting chat bullshittery in game). |
Tear Miner
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
107
|
Posted - 2012.03.21 00:34:00 -
[24] - Quote
I had a lot of fun anyhow, I may have disagreed with ISD Eshtir with the intial lock on the Eve CQ Hadaway video, but I'm glad to see CCP being cool. This is why I play this game, because CCP is probably the coolest MMO dev team around.
PS: I'm going to edit the title of my OP, because I feel it is a bit too harsh. |
Ammzi
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
863
|
Posted - 2012.03.21 00:52:00 -
[25] - Quote
I agree with OP and the rest.
If that video was not eve related, then all the facebook pictures on the EVE fanpage are not eve-related either....
quote CCP Spitfire
"Hello Im Blue,"
|
Kehro Urgus
171
|
Posted - 2012.03.21 01:00:00 -
[26] - Quote
IIRC, UO got rid of the player volunteers because they were just that, volunteers, and someone filed a lawsuit because they wanted money.
You know what you find in a sandbox? Sand and cat poo. |
Korsiri
Mousetrap Building Inc.
17
|
Posted - 2012.03.21 01:11:00 -
[27] - Quote
UO Volunteers did a lot of awesome work that helped increase game play and that elusive "immersion" factor. It was pretty sad that it got ruined for everyone, by a few, and took with it essentially the entire idea of volunteer 'work' in an online game for a very long time.
It's about time games get over their AoL lawsuit syndrome and get back to having 'working' volunteers, admittedly with limited powers, we're not talking about runaway GMs IG here for instance. Having feedback is always important but realizing there's going to be an adjustment period is as well. |
Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
466
|
Posted - 2012.03.21 01:58:00 -
[28] - Quote
Ammzi wrote:I agree with OP and the rest.
If that video was not eve related, then all the facebook pictures on the EVE fanpage are not eve-related either....
And all the CCP staff posting "first", "second" etc on devblogs are not wasting space posting zero-content drivel.
(I have tried reporting them, a few times actually, just to see if they actually remove it. Nothing happened)
shiptoastin' liek a baws |
Jade Scytale
Okami Syndicate
6
|
Posted - 2012.03.21 03:24:00 -
[29] - Quote
Apparently CCP doesn't have to abide by its own forum and behavior rules, but doesn't mind month-long banning anyone who skirts the edge mockingly. |
ChuckNorris InSpace
SniggWaffe
EVE Corporation 123566322353
1
|
Posted - 2012.03.21 04:21:00 -
[30] - Quote
Jade Scytale wrote:Apparently CCP doesn't have to abide by its own forum and behavior rules, but doesn't mind banning anyone who skirts the edge mockingly.
welcome to eve |
T'amber Anomandari Demaleon
530
|
Posted - 2012.03.21 05:20:00 -
[31] - Quote
I'm all for volunteers - . Of course there needs to be moderation but any volunteer who thinks they could get away with a power craze splurg would be bat **** crazy, they'd get eaten alive.
long live isd forum division, the more work they do the more other stuff the community team can spend their time on.
www.shipsofeve.com
|
Degren
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
76
|
Posted - 2012.03.21 06:43:00 -
[32] - Quote
UO seer here,
Volunteer counselors, seers etc in UO could create items, move players, spawn monsters, etc.
Not sure ISD can do any of that.
Edit: Oh yeah, fun fact: I was like 14 at the time. |
Joseph Sulaco
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
4
|
Posted - 2012.03.21 06:56:00 -
[33] - Quote
Jade Scytale wrote:Apparently CCP doesn't have to abide by its own forum and behavior rules, but doesn't mind banning anyone who skirts the edge mockingly.
You say this like you haven't read the EULA or something...
CCP can say whatever they want on their forums. They may not get away with it and I'm sure some people get yelled at in the hallways at the office because of it, but in the end, they can do what they damn well please.
Also, i'm lazy, wtf is this video dramallama? can someone evemail it to me? Thanks in advance |
Kai Tel
State War Academy
Caldari State
9
|
Posted - 2012.03.21 08:03:00 -
[34] - Quote
It's not like ISD peoples are granted special game breaking abilities to move and change the game world. They seem to be as advertised:Volunteers that answer questions and help new players or mod on a forum post. Frankly, I am all for them. Bad eggs get rooted out early. I can't think of any other community that does as well in using its veteran playerbase to bring new players into the fold in spite of what happens in open space. Leave em be. |
Gorki Andropov
Kerensky Initiatives
255
|
Posted - 2012.03.21 11:13:00 -
[35] - Quote
CCP Navigator wrote:I have no problem with a thread like this existing. if you want to question why certian bodies exist, you are more than welcome to do so.
If you think that you can use this thread as a bashing platform or an area to insult people who give their free time to help everyone in EVE, that is not going to fly.
As long as this thread is constructive and polite then it can remain open. Once that is no longer the case, it will be locked.
A few things:
1) Please do not talk to your paying customers as if we were children. I appreciate the position that you are in, and the standards that you must maintain, but please do not act as a parent figure. We do not need that from an employee of the game that we subscribe to - by and large, we have those of our own!
2) I am a little concerned that you conflate voicing legitimate concern about an ISD member's activities with a 'bashing platform'. Naturally, we appreciate helpful individuals, but I believe that it is a mistake to automatically assume that someone who 'gives their free time to help everyone in help' is by default in the right and can do no wrong.
3) I always knew it would come to this one day. It is very similar in some ways to the privatisation of public sector services that many countries are now experiencing; by delegating power to these outsider groups (private companies, volunteers, whoever), the level of transparancy and accountability just got a little more opaque.
Thank you for your input. |
Jet Aeon
Two Smoking Barrels
13
|
Posted - 2012.03.21 11:24:00 -
[36] - Quote
Azure Moonlight wrote:Can they actually ban? Just thinkin of this Oni Mawaha(whatever his name was) that spamed the forum just recently. All his threads got locked, but he just made more. Thats a little awkward, why not delete them and ban this guy? Id like to see forum mods given temp. banning powers. Just long enough for the suits to come in the morning and review the issues and determin if a longer ban is warranted.
These forums suck and it isn't due to over moderation or censorship. It's the lack of maturity of us subscribers.
|
Jet Aeon
Two Smoking Barrels
13
|
Posted - 2012.03.21 11:32:00 -
[37] - Quote
Jade Scytale wrote:Apparently CCP doesn't have to abide by its own forum and behavior rules, but doesn't mind banning anyone who skirts the edge mockingly. I have no problem with CCP making/breaking their own rules. It you I have a problem with when it comes to breaking rules.
|
Tear Miner
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
110
|
Posted - 2012.03.21 16:04:00 -
[38] - Quote
Kehro Urgus wrote:IIRC, UO got rid of the player volunteers because they were just that, volunteers, and someone filed a lawsuit because they wanted money.
That's what it all stemmed from. I was an Event Moderator (Junior Seer), and was pretty sad it came to that. But yeah, once that lawsuit broke open the doors, all kinds of stuff came out. |
Zleon Leigh
93
|
Posted - 2012.03.21 23:31:00 -
[39] - Quote
Ajita al Tchar wrote:I think that it would be nice if there was some venue for reporting chat channel problems. For example, often the conversation in the Help channel devolves into something that has nothing to do with help, and actual legitimate questions from people who need assistance/advice are ignored in the flood of retardation. Personally, I would like to have the ISDs available to pop into a channel and act upon a complaint (but of course, there's no good way of reporting chat bullshittery in game).
A question is never missed being seen in Help, but sometimes just can't be answered, EVE being so ridiculously undocumented and complex. Unfortunately, pilots expect to always get immediate answers, which sometimes just flat can't happen, even if an ISD has been lurking around. Everyone in channel replying IDK is not going to help the flow. From what you wrote, I suspect this is the situation you encountered.
It would be helpful if more ISD's were available in the Help channel. If expectations were set that they were there to monitor behavior instead of being the bloody know-all encyclopedia of EVE maybe more hands would be available. Rarely have I seen the case where a question couldn't be quickly and correctly answered by non-ISD players in the channel. Heck there are a few frequent non-ISD players in channel that I would bet good isk know more than the Dev's about the game.
BTW, a few blocks pretty much clears out the remarks from the troublemakers. I try to field all the PI questions that come up., in many cases taking on side conversations to work the pilot in trouble through issues, so far with a good batting average. Besides learning from the flow of questions, short side conversations on other topics is the only reason I stay in channel. If that wasn't possible why would I stay around at all?
Incarna - Newest business example of mismanaged capital.
CCP - Continuing to gank independent PI producers every day |
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