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Reaver One
Sigillum Militum Xpisti
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Posted - 2008.08.06 20:46:00 -
[1]
So we're making things generally safer in hi-sec. I'm fine with that, let's draw in some new blood and make the casual players a bit more comfortable.
While we're doing this, I think it's really important to make sure that opportunities exist for all the new folks to become acclimated to EvE properly, and to make sure that risk does in fact equal reward, and that time in-game is still rewarded. I think FW is a good first step there, but more is needed.
My proposition is to ensure that living in hi-sec never makes anyone rich. Simple as that.
1. Make all asteroids in hi-sec only drop Veldspar. Ever. Period.
2. Make reprocessed modules yield primarily Trit, with only traces of Pye, Mex, Iso and Nox (as in .01% or less combined), and never yield the rarer resources.
3. Make all agents in 0.7 and higher space L2 or lower, agents in 0.5 to 0.6 L3 and lower. No L4 or L5 agents should exist in hi-sec space.
This system will allow folks who simply cannot stand PvP in any form to keep plugging away in hi-sec, and now that they're a bit safer their ISKs should theoretically last them longer. They won't, however, have as huge an effect on the market without accepting some risk.
This will also encourage more folks to get out in low-sec (aside from FW activities) for higher profits. This will make the pirates happy, and it will train these intrepid souls in the fine art of survival.
Comments appreciated.
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Cpt Branko
Surge.
NIght's Dawn
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Posted - 2008.08.06 20:47:00 -
[2]
I like this.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
SurrenderMonkey
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Posted - 2008.08.06 20:48:00 -
[3]
I don't know that I like the specific suggestions, but I definitely agree in concept. If a significant portion of high-sec risk is being eliminated, the reward should be adjusted to suit.
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Kateryne
Minmatar
Children Of Matar
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Posted - 2008.08.06 20:49:00 -
[4]
To be honest, if they just went through with the idea of removing all static spawns (roid belts, deadspaces etc) and made it so everything had to be scanned down...
then THAT would go a long way to making people want more reward for the effort they put in, and so move into lower or even null-sec space.
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schurem
Anarchy Inc.
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Posted - 2008.08.06 20:49:00 -
[5]
i dont. while eve is primarily a pvp game, such huge sweeping changes would cripple its economy. i also dont like your idea of making hisec so utterly unprofitable. it would only widen the gap between the haves and have nots.
However, I still think EvE needs more and better tactical warning sounds.
<<<< No Boundaries, No Fences, Fly Free Or Die Trying >>>>
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Heartstone
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2008.08.06 20:50:00 -
[6]
Some reasonable ideas for sure. Make a thread in the CSM channels to see if you get any support for it there if I were you.
---
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Tarminic
24th Imperial Crusade
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Posted - 2008.08.06 20:58:00 -
[7]
Moving level 4 missions out of high-sec is and always will be a dumb idea. Mission runners aren't going to follow a carrot into a vat of acid no matter how tasty the carrot is. 
They'll just farm level 3 missions instead for almost as much profit.
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Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.83 (Updated 7/3) |
Malcanis
We are Legend
eXceed.
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Posted - 2008.08.06 21:00:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Malcanis on 06/08/2008 21:02:23
 Originally by: Reaver One
So we're making things generally safer in hi-sec. I'm fine with that, let's draw in some new blood and make the casual players a bit more comfortable.
While we're doing this, I think it's really important to make sure that opportunities exist for all the new folks to become acclimated to EvE properly, and to make sure that risk does in fact equal reward, and that time in-game is still rewarded. I think FW is a good first step there, but more is needed.
My proposition is to ensure that living in hi-sec never makes anyone rich. Simple as that.
1. Make all asteroids in hi-sec only drop Veldspar. Ever. Period.
2. Make reprocessed modules yield primarily Trit, with only traces of Pye, Mex, Iso and Nox (as in .01% or less combined), and never yield the rarer resources.
3. Make all agents in 0.7 and higher space L2 or lower, agents in 0.5 to 0.6 L3 and lower. No L4 or L5 agents should exist in hi-sec space.
This system will allow folks who simply cannot stand PvP in any form to keep plugging away in hi-sec, and now that they're a bit safer their ISKs should theoretically last them longer. They won't, however, have as huge an effect on the market without accepting some risk.
This will also encourage more folks to get out in low-sec (aside from FW activities) for higher profits. This will make the pirates happy, and it will train these intrepid souls in the fine art of survival.
Comments appreciated.
Hi-sec is evidently supposed to be the kindegarten of EvE. Your suggestions make sense, although the fine detail could be tweaked (eg: have some low-quality level 4 agents in high-sec but near lo-sec)
CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that. |
Kateryne
Minmatar
Children Of Matar
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Posted - 2008.08.06 21:00:00 -
[9]
Then maybe missions in general need an overhaul, with the higher level agents only in lower sec systems, but giving considerably more reward.
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Atlas Oracle
Minmatar
Native Freshfood
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Posted - 2008.08.06 21:01:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Tarminic
They'll just farm level 3 missions instead for almost as much profit.
more likely, just quit.
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Malcanis
We are Legend
eXceed.
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Posted - 2008.08.06 21:02:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Tarminic
Moving level 4 missions out of high-sec is and always will be a dumb idea. Mission runners aren't going to follow a carrot into a vat of acid no matter how tasty the carrot is.
They'll just farm level 3 missions instead for almost as much profit.
So... no real downside then?
PS level 3s do NOT make "almost as much" as level 4s. Seriously: no.
CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that. |
Reaver One
Sigillum Militum Xpisti
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Posted - 2008.08.06 21:04:00 -
[12]
Originally by: schurem
i dont. while eve is primarily a pvp game, such huge sweeping changes would cripple its economy. i also dont like your idea of making hisec so utterly unprofitable. it would only widen the gap between the haves and have nots.
Valid points.
First point - economics:
I'm not going to sit here and say that I understand enough about the EvE economy (or economics in general really) to predict what these changes will do to the market. What I will say is that I personally know a bunch of mission runners that have purchased a single mission ship for huge sums of money...once...and have used them for months. That kind of stagnation isn't really good for the economy either. I'd sure like to see what would happen if we start to turn over those faction and officer modules more often.
Point 2 - Distribution of wealth:
I contend that the haves have because they regularly hemmorage money in wars, ice, stations, clones, etc. The have-nots really don't need lots (see what I did there?). From my personal experience, I played the first four or five months of my EvE career as a mission runner, making progressively more and more ISK and losing virtually nothing. Hi-sec mission runners and miners won't, generally speaking, have to preplace equipment on a regular basis (or ever really), so their dollar buys them much more.
The only time I've ever been hard up for cash is when I started learning to PvP. That has, strangely enough, made me much more inclined to take risks to earn my ISKs more quickly so I can get back to the pew pew.
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Tarminic
24th Imperial Crusade
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Posted - 2008.08.06 21:05:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Malcanis
PS level 3s do NOT make "almost as much" as level 4s. Seriously: no.
Not if you assuming they are completed at the same rate as level 4 missions, no. But I'm willing to bet that a properly fit navy raven will plow through level 3 missions in a third the time it take to complete a single level 4 mission.
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Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.83 (Updated 7/3) |
Gone'Postal
Minmatar
Vengeance 8 Interceptors
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Posted - 2008.08.06 21:05:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Kateryne
Then maybe missions in general need an overhaul, with the higher level agents only in lower sec systems, but giving considerably more reward.
Sure just change lowsec gate guns so they web, scram and can deal a LOT more damage, Then add a timer that if a player or group of players sit within 250Km of a gate for more then 5 mins, they get popped for lotering.(sp?)
as no way in hell are mission runners going to go Ooo..lowsec... there going to think Ooo..GATECAMP.
-V8I-
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Gone'Postal
Minmatar
Vengeance 8 Interceptors
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Posted - 2008.08.06 21:07:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Tarminic
Originally by: Malcanis
PS level 3s do NOT make "almost as much" as level 4s. Seriously: no.
Not if you assuming they are completed at the same rate as level 4 missions, no. But I'm willing to bet that a properly fit navy raven will plow through level 3 missions in a third the time it take to complete a single level 4 mission.
Lvl3's are more or very close to lvl4's in terms of profit due to what Tarminic states, speed is a factor, lvl4's are long slow and boring, lvl3s are a walkover and very fast.
-V8I-
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Kateryne
Minmatar
Children Of Matar
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Posted - 2008.08.06 21:10:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Gone'Postal
Originally by: Kateryne
Then maybe missions in general need an overhaul, with the higher level agents only in lower sec systems, but giving considerably more reward.
Sure just change lowsec gate guns so they web, scram and can deal a LOT more damage, Then add a timer that if a player or group of players sit within 250Km of a gate for more then 5 mins, they get popped for lotering.(sp?)
as no way in hell are mission runners going to go Ooo..lowsec... there going to think Ooo..GATECAMP.
Well gatecamps have long been an issue.
As far as i know, CCP haven't updated sentry gun damage since eve was first launched, so they are quite easy to tank now.
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Malcanis
We are Legend
eXceed.
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Posted - 2008.08.06 21:12:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Tarminic
Originally by: Malcanis
PS level 3s do NOT make "almost as much" as level 4s. Seriously: no.
Not if you assuming they are completed at the same rate as level 4 missions, no. But I'm willing to bet that a properly fit navy raven will plow through level 3 missions in a third the time it take to complete a single level 4 mission.
I'd rather use a Drake than a CNR for level 3s tbh. It moves faster, and it will chow through the small ships more quickly, since with 3 shield purge rigs fitted, you can go for a full out gank fit for any mission except perhaps Blockade.
CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that. |
Johann Jeneau
Gallente
Cricas Portuguese Korp
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Posted - 2008.08.06 21:12:00 -
[18]
Signed, risk vs reward it's broken at the moment, in high-sec there is 3 kinds of chars, alts of low-sec/0.0 (wich should be gaining their isk where their main is), uber carebears that will never move out of high-sec (this ones don't or shouldn't loose money so they don't need lot's of income, they make take more time to reach their goals but eventually will get there), and the ones learning and preparing themselves to move to low-sec/0.0 (this ones should have a bigger incentive to move there, not the other way around).
ps: all those changes i support will actually harm alot of my income (i dont make money in low-sec/0.0 altought i've been living there for 18 months) that makes me what? A masoquist?
I like my steaks bloody as hell |
Malcanis
We are Legend
eXceed.
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Posted - 2008.08.06 21:15:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Gone'Postal
Originally by: Tarminic
Originally by: Malcanis
PS level 3s do NOT make "almost as much" as level 4s. Seriously: no.
Not if you assuming they are completed at the same rate as level 4 missions, no. But I'm willing to bet that a properly fit navy raven will plow through level 3 missions in a third the time it take to complete a single level 4 mission.
Lvl3's are more or very close to lvl4's in terms of profit due to what Tarminic states, speed is a factor, lvl4's are long slow and boring, lvl3s are a walkover and very fast.
There are very few level 4s that take me more than 30-40 minutes. Many take 20 minutes or less. And really, with DG Cruise launchers and BCS, even battleship rats melt pretty fast.
CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that. |
Gone'Postal
Minmatar
Vengeance 8 Interceptors
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Posted - 2008.08.06 21:19:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Malcanis
There are very few level 4s that take me more than 30-40 minutes. Many take 20 minutes or less. And really, with DG Cruise launchers and BCS, even battleship rats melt pretty fast.
Agreed, now drop a ship class and keep the same faction loot, EG DG heavys not Cruise. and you can still pump out lvl3s faster and with a cheaper ship.
How fast do you think a Faction nighthawk fully pimped can take a lvl3 down, compared to a pimped Golem or CNR in a lvl4.
Nighthawk wins hands down tbh.
-V8I-
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Cambarus
The Baros Syndicate
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Posted - 2008.08.06 21:20:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Kateryne
Then maybe missions in general need an overhaul, with the higher level agents only in lower sec systems, but giving considerably more reward.
That's EXACTLY the way it works now.
Not only that, but level 5 agents are PROOF that most people will not go to lowsec for better missions. Remove lvl 4s from highsec and all mission runners will either run lvl 3s or quit.
If anything needs an overhaul it's 0.0 ratting. It's just not profitable enough, and it forces people to compete for rescources with other members of their alliance. Most systems cannot support more then 3 people ratting, which forces alliances to either expand beyond their means or find other ways to make isk =\
Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Alz Shado
Ever Flow
HUZZAH FEDERATION
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Posted - 2008.08.06 21:20:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Reaver One
1. Make all asteroids in hi-sec only drop Veldspar. Ever. Period.
If you want to hurt Macroers, change this to Scordite. Veldspar's more valuable when trit's above 3.0
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\\\\ Rifter(RedBad)
"Kill a man one is a murderer; kill a million, a conqueror; kill them all, a God." -- Jean Rostand |
Malcanis
We are Legend
eXceed.
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Posted - 2008.08.06 21:21:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Gone'Postal
Originally by: Malcanis
There are very few level 4s that take me more than 30-40 minutes. Many take 20 minutes or less. And really, with DG Cruise launchers and BCS, even battleship rats melt pretty fast.
Agreed, now drop a ship class and keep the same faction loot, EG DG heavys not Cruise. and you can still pump out lvl3s faster and with a cheaper ship.
How fast do you think a Faction nighthawk fully pimped can take a lvl3 down, compared to a pimped Golem or CNR in a lvl4.
Nighthawk wins hands down tbh.
yeah, but 45-145k rats vs up to 950k rats.... and far less LP/mission reward.
Sorry, but there's a reason that L4 agent systems are jammed and L3 agents aren't.
CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that. |
Reaver One
Sigillum Militum Xpisti
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Posted - 2008.08.06 21:24:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Alz Shado
Originally by: Reaver One
1. Make all asteroids in hi-sec only drop Veldspar. Ever. Period.
If you want to hurt Macroers, change this to Scordite. Veldspar's more valuable when trit's above 3.0
Which is why I'm suggesting it. The value of trit compared to other minerals is a bit screwy now, but if you make it so that high-sec mining ONLY produces trit, and make it so that module reprocessing produces almost only trit, the imbalance should self-correct.
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Gone'Postal
Minmatar
Vengeance 8 Interceptors
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Posted - 2008.08.06 21:27:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Malcanis
yeah, but 45-145k rats vs up to 950k rats.... and far less LP/mission reward.
Sorry, but there's a reason that L4 agent systems are jammed and L3 agents aren't.
Yes, lvl4's are very safe atm. You missed the point of the op and replys mate,
if lvl4s were moved to lowsec, then the chance of getting forced into PVP is higher = more risk of loosing the ship, Loadouts would need to be changed to have some way of running or standing ground in lowsec, a mission fit will get you killed.
Factor all that in, + not running just 1 or even 10 missions and lvl3's become very profitable over lvl4's due to the lack of risk over very high risk.
-V8I-
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Reaver One
Sigillum Militum Xpisti
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Posted - 2008.08.06 21:43:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Gone'Postal
if lvl4s were moved to lowsec, then the chance of getting forced into PVP is higher = more risk of loosing the ship, Loadouts would need to be changed to have some way of running or standing ground in lowsec, a mission fit will get you killed.
Factor all that in, + not running just 1 or even 10 missions and lvl3's become very profitable over lvl4's due to the lack of risk over very high risk.
Which brings up another issue I'd like to see addressed. I have NEVER felt any less safe on 0.5 space than in 1.0 space, not even a little bit. Matter of fact, I've felt much more at risk due to situational factors (trade routes, trade hubs, etc).
So what's so special about ANY rating over 0.5? Why even have them?
Here's another suggestion:
Make a Concord reaction a 100% likelihood in 1.0 space. Introduce a chance that Concord ships have been delayed (with the accompanying alert message on the UI) in systems with security status lower than 1.0. Make this result less likely if more than one aggressor is present.
For example:
SecStatus: DelayChance: PerAggressor>1:
1.0 0% n/a
0.9 10% -1%
0.8 20% -2%
0.7 30% -3%
etcetera...
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Gone'Postal
Minmatar
Vengeance 8 Interceptors
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Posted - 2008.08.06 21:49:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Reaver One
Which brings up another issue I'd like to see addressed. I have NEVER felt any less safe on 0.5 space than in 1.0 space, not even a little bit. Matter of fact, I've felt much more at risk due to situational factors (trade routes, trade hubs, etc).
So what's so special about ANY rating over 0.5? Why even have them?
Here's another suggestion:
Make a Concord reaction a 100% likelihood in 1.0 space. Introduce a chance that Concord ships have been delayed (with the accompanying alert message on the UI) in systems with security status lower than 1.0. Make this result less likely if more than one aggressor is present.
For example:
SecStatus: DelayChance: PerAggressor>1:
1.0 0% n/a
0.9 10% -1%
0.8 20% -2%
0.7 30% -3%
etcetera...
They should just have Hisec - Lowsec - and Fairgamesec tbh.
Nice idea and agreed.
-V8I-
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