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Hulk not worth the investment?

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T'Pawhl Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 0	Posted - 2012.03.21 04:55:00 - [1] - Quote Hey guys, I finally finished training up for Hulk on my main and went out and bought one. It cost 220 million ISK. As I was mining with it, I was thinking about Hulkageddon. 220 million ISK is a pretty steep investment, so I decided to pick up a Covetor instead. Well here's the funny thing, in my Covetor my yield is only a slight bit less. I put the numbers into EFit and even with max skills, I simply don't see a Hulk justifying the investment unless you're mining in blue SOV. I think with T2 crystals the differences was like 8500m3/hour. Which if you're mining Veldspar is only 1.3 million. The difference is: A Covetor can pay for itself in a couple of days simply via mineral value. A Hulk would take a few weeks. Unless I'm missing something. Thoughts?
Alavaria Fera GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 244	Posted - 2012.03.21 05:02:00 - [2] - Quote T'Pawhl wrote: Hey guys, I finally finished training up for Hulk on my main and went out and bought one. It cost 220 million ISK. As I was mining with it, I was thinking about Hulkageddon. 220 million ISK is a pretty steep investment, so I decided to pick up a Covetor instead. Well here's the funny thing, in my Covetor my yield is only a slight bit less. I put the numbers into EFit and even with max skills, I simply don't see a Hulk justifying the investment unless you're mining in blue SOV. I think with T2 crystals the differences was like 8500m3/hour. Which if you're mining Veldspar is only 1.3 million. The difference is: A Covetor can pay for itself in a couple of days simply via mineral value. A Hulk would take a few weeks. Unless I'm missing something. Thoughts? Something like that. For the hulk, you get bonuses from Exhumers. Granted, the training from Covetor to Hulk is very fast, so it isn't surprising that there isn't a massive mining yield increase. Not sure if hulks are artifically expensive because of Hulkageddon (the starter of which seems to be gone or something). Of course other than mining in null (which I don't think most do)... people buying the expensive ship end up using it in highsec counting on the uh "protection" of Concord. Which isn't all that perfect, but still. The Covetor is very nice for the price, and you get most of the bonuses (still lacking a bit from the perfect hulk as you noted). Depending on having all sorts of support ships around, the mining yield gap will increase, not sure how much .. but then you'd be mining with some expensive ships around, which I think would be more gank-likely targets. Take all the tech Build all the titans Drop all the POSes Bees incoming, nerf ERRYTHING ERRYDAY
Antal Marius Black Aces Mining Div AAA Citizens 15	Posted - 2012.03.21 05:09:00 - [3] - Quote Mining solo in a hulk is doing it wrong. Get yourself a slave in an orca and have it camp next to you with the range and cycle mining boosts and a shield resistance boost. It'll out perform a solo hulk every day, and if you're smart, you can make them pay for themselves. Longer hauls with alot more ore means alot more isk in your pocket. Although upfront costs are steep.
T'Pawhl Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 0	Posted - 2012.03.21 05:14:00 - [4] - Quote Well checking the 1 year price history, the Hulk has remained stable at 190 million (with two brief dips to 180 million) until the end of January, where it started to climb and is now somewhere around 220-240 depending on where you go. I guess if anything I could wait for it to climb a bit higher and then resell my Hulk for a bit of profit. I don't see myself flying them considering the increasing popularity of coordinated suicide ganking. I mean if my Covetor gets popped it's only 30 mil tops lost. The Covetor has been stable at 17 mil until, again, the end of February, whence it increased an astounding 5 million ISK. I don't know why anyone flies a Hulk lol.
T'Pawhl Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 0	Posted - 2012.03.21 05:15:00 - [5] - Quote Antal Marius wrote: Mining solo in a hulk is doing it wrong. Get yourself a slave in an orca and have it camp next to you with the range and cycle mining boosts and a shield resistance boost. It'll out perform a solo hulk every day, and if you're smart, you can make them pay for themselves. Longer hauls with alot more ore means alot more isk in your pocket. Although upfront costs are steep. What about a Covetor and an Orca?
Dyniss Argent Uprising 6	Posted - 2012.03.21 07:25:00 - [6] - Quote Hulk honestly is not worth the cost you can pick up a Covetor bpc with 3-5 runs for like 2 mil isk. At level 5 the hulk gets a 15% better mining yield big whoop! The Covetor IMO is hands down the more cost effective mine. The only drawbacks are you can't fit 2 mining upgrades (Covetor can fit 1) and the lower resists but cost wise the Covetor is dirt cheap low mineral cost to build too. The hulk cost as much as a dam faction battleship almost and faction battleships get better bonuses to their lesser cousins. Heck T2 cruisers and frigs have better bonuses to their T1 counterparts. The hulk is a rich mans miner the rest are smart and use a Covetor
Dyniss Argent Uprising 6	Posted - 2012.03.21 07:31:00 - [7] - Quote The mackinaw and skiff are actually useful as their bonuses server a purpose where as the Hulk is a small upgrade to the Covetor. The hulk does have better survivability though but this is pointless as it still very fragile out side of empire. I am also surprised hulks don't get mining bonuses to drones but do is do isn't the hulk a dedicated mining vessel?
Sven Hammerstorm Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire 18	Posted - 2012.03.21 08:03:00 - [8] - Quote Dyniss wrote: The mackinaw and skiff are actually useful as their bonuses server a purpose where as the Hulk is a small upgrade to the Covetor. The hulk does have better survivability though but this is pointless as it still very fragile out side of empire. I am also surprised hulks don't get mining bonuses to drones but some combat ships do isn't the hulk a dedicated mining vessel? Yes, exactly 0 of the combat ships that have the bonuses are viable combat ships
Stetson Eagle ROC Academy The ROC 12	Posted - 2012.03.21 11:14:00 - [9] - Quote Dyniss wrote: The mackinaw and skiff are actually useful as their bonuses server a purpose where as the Hulk is a small upgrade to the Covetor. The hulk does have better survivability though but this is pointless as it still very fragile out side of empire. I am also surprised hulks don't get mining bonuses to drones but some combat ships do isn't the hulk a dedicated mining vessel? You can calculate the isk returns in using a hulk over a covetor. Let's say you're running 1M isk / hour more for a hulk; you'll get the ships worth after 200 hours of mining. Let's say you're running 5M+ a hour difference mining in null; you're down to 40 hours of mining. A hulk is a pretty good ice miner as well so it's versatile. A hulk can fit 180+ dps tank with a small shield booster vs. a specific rat type without losing mining upgrades, making it a very viable nullsec solo miner. For the purpose of highsec mining I would not use a hulk since highsec is way more dangerous to mine in than a blue nullsec system. In null you'll be mining inside anomalies and you can always escape into the safety of a pos. The mining bonuses to drones (notably arbitrator?) are useful only for baiting purposes. Guess they are there to make the ship a "jack of all trades". A hulk on the other hand can fit a 19k ehp tank while sporting long point + 3700 scanres because of it's inherent 660 scanres, which is rather odd for a mining ship. That's something I'd swap for a mining drone bonus, possibly even a notable 100% as in (5x 20%) one.
Stetson Eagle ROC Academy The ROC 12	Posted - 2012.03.21 11:18:00 - [10] - Quote As a bit of an offtopic hint, I predict nullsec mining and industry is going to be getting a notable buff in Inferno. With drone regions possibly getting a mineral nerf and nullsec mining getting a buff I'd look into forming industrial corps and alliances with your mining friends; you might get better rental / alliance deals :)
Skorpynekomimi Omega Vector 142	Posted - 2012.03.21 12:18:00 - [11] - Quote In highsec? Not really. For null, where it's designed, used with orca and maybe even rorqual support? Definitely. You can't really tank a covetor worth a damn.
Darthewok Perkone Caldari State 35	Posted - 2012.03.21 12:50:00 - [12] - Quote Yes, Hulks are ridiculously overpriced for their profit making potential. 200mil hull cost to make 2-5mil ISK/hr in hisec or 10-20mil ISK/hr in null? Compare that to 60-120mil for a level 4 mission BS that can easily make 10-30mil ISK/hr in hi-sec... CAVEAT RICHARDUS VOLVERE - YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHg5SJYRHA0
Nalha Saldana Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation 180	Posted - 2012.03.21 13:06:00 - [13] - Quote The hulks advantage is about 25% yield and that difference in isk/hour isnt that big until you get orca boosts.
nahjustwarpin Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 1	Posted - 2012.03.21 13:18:00 - [14] - Quote Darthewok wrote: Yes, Hulks are ridiculously overpriced for their profit making potential. 200mil hull cost to make 2-5mil ISK/hr in hisec or 10-20mil ISK/hr in null? Compare that to 60-120mil for a level 4 mission BS that can easily make 10-30mil ISK/hr in hi-sec... where you have 2-5 mil/h value from? taking veldspar at 13 isk i have 12mil/h do some homework before posting next time
Darthewok Perkone Caldari State 35	Posted - 2012.03.21 15:11:00 - [15] - Quote nahjustwarpin wrote: Darthewok wrote: Yes, Hulks are ridiculously overpriced for their profit making potential. 200mil hull cost to make 2-5mil ISK/hr in hisec or 10-20mil ISK/hr in null? Compare that to 60-120mil for a level 4 mission BS that can easily make 10-30mil ISK/hr in hi-sec... where you have 2-5 mil/h value from? taking veldspar at 13 isk i have 12mil/h do some homework before posting next time Are the rest of you getting 12mil/h from veldspar mining in empire? I am genuinely curious. CAVEAT RICHARDUS VOLVERE - YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHg5SJYRHA0
Buzzy Warstl Huron Syndicate 66	Posted - 2012.03.21 15:12:00 - [16] - Quote Stetson Eagle wrote: The mining bonuses to drones (notably arbitrator?) are useful only for baiting purposes Not true. The Vexor and Arbitrator can match the mining capacity of the laser-based mining cruisers quite handily. Run the numbers yourself and see.
nahjustwarpin Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 1	Posted - 2012.03.21 15:27:00 - [17] - Quote Darthewok wrote: nahjustwarpin wrote: Darthewok wrote: Yes, Hulks are ridiculously overpriced for their profit making potential. 200mil hull cost to make 2-5mil ISK/hr in hisec or 10-20mil ISK/hr in null? Compare that to 60-120mil for a level 4 mission BS that can easily make 10-30mil ISK/hr in hi-sec... where you have 2-5 mil/h value from? taking veldspar at 13 isk i have 12mil/h do some homework before posting next time Are the rest of you getting 12mil/h from veldspar mining in empire? I am genuinely curious. ok, how did you calculate your 2-5 mil/h
Egnald Arbosa Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 0	Posted - 2012.03.21 15:37:00 - [18] - Quote Darthewok wrote: nahjustwarpin wrote: Darthewok wrote: Yes, Hulks are ridiculously overpriced for their profit making potential. 200mil hull cost to make 2-5mil ISK/hr in hisec or 10-20mil ISK/hr in null? Compare that to 60-120mil for a level 4 mission BS that can easily make 10-30mil ISK/hr in hi-sec... where you have 2-5 mil/h value from? taking veldspar at 13 isk i have 12mil/h do some homework before posting next time Are the rest of you getting 12mil/h from veldspar mining in empire? I am genuinely curious. I can make 20 mil an hour mining just veldspar at current prices Hulk+Orca
Darthewok Perkone Caldari State 35	Posted - 2012.03.21 15:55:00 - [19] - Quote nice. so mining may actually be worth it now. it was really poor income for while. CAVEAT RICHARDUS VOLVERE - YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHg5SJYRHA0
Alua Oresson Demon-War-Lords BLACK-MARK 72	Posted - 2012.03.21 16:01:00 - [20] - Quote Darthewok wrote: Yes, Hulks are ridiculously overpriced for their profit making potential. 200mil hull cost to make 2-5mil ISK/hr in hisec or 10-20mil ISK/hr in null? Compare that to 60-120mil for a level 4 mission BS that can easily make 10-30mil ISK/hr in hi-sec... When the hulk was introduced you could make 100+mil/hr in null-sec mining in a battleship. High end ore prices plummeted with the introduction of drone regions. The proposal that is out to make drones have bounties instead of dropping drone poop should buff null sec mining when it comes back out. I'm looking forward to popping hulks in null-sec again.
Zhilia Mann Tide Way Out Productions 375	Posted - 2012.03.21 16:12:00 - [21] - Quote Alua Oresson wrote: When the hulk was introduced you could make 100+mil/hr in null-sec mining in a battleship. Yeah, but the damn things also ran half a billion ISK before invention. If you think they're expensive now, you should have seen it....
Alua Oresson Demon-War-Lords BLACK-MARK 72	Posted - 2012.03.21 16:27:00 - [22] - Quote I did see it. I was there. It was so real. My hands were..... Oh wait. I was there at the time though. I remember watching the 2 guys in my corp that had one in lust for one. They were clearing a **** load of isk while tanking spawns.
astara989 Push Mineral Extraction Push Interstellar Network 32	Posted - 2012.03.21 16:41:00 - [23] - Quote Not hard to make 15mill/hour in highsec with an hulk. Also theie prices are just going up and up, meaning not only do you make money on your investment from higher yield, but also being able to sell it later on for more then you bought it for. Also if you do it right, gank risk is fairly low.
Alavaria Fera GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 245	Posted - 2012.03.21 18:04:00 - [24] - Quote astara989 wrote: Also if you do it right, gank risk is fairly low. Heh, well that's a fairly big assumption to make sometimes, given people's mining habits. Take all the tech Build all the titans Drop all the POSes Bees incoming, nerf ERRYTHING ERRYDAY
MadMuppet Kerguelen Station 185	Posted - 2012.03.21 18:14:00 - [25] - Quote If you are soloing there is one minor miner difference. The cargo hold of a Covetor is 4000m3 and a Hulk is 8000m3 which even when you account for the 3 rigs vs 2 rigs is still over 4000m3 difference (assuming the lows are to be used for MLUs or DCs, if you use expanders the difference is even more). That means more time mining and less travelling. I don't always finish my commentary, but when I do
IGNATIUS HOOD Zephyr Corp Black Thorne Alliance 290	Posted - 2012.03.21 20:19:00 - [26] - Quote T'Pawhl wrote: Hey guys, I finally finished training up for Hulk on my main and went out and bought one. It cost 220 million ISK. As I was mining with it, I was thinking about Hulkageddon. 220 million ISK is a pretty steep investment, so I decided to pick up a Covetor instead. Well here's the funny thing, in my Covetor my yield is only a slight bit less. I put the numbers into EFit and even with max skills, I simply don't see a Hulk justifying the investment unless you're mining in blue SOV. I think with T2 crystals the differences was like 8500m3/hour. Which if you're mining Veldspar is only 1.3 million. The difference is: A Covetor can pay for itself in a couple of days simply via mineral value. A Hulk would take a few weeks. Unless I'm missing something. Thoughts? I never saw the need for one nor the need to T2 my mining lasers. I use Covetors with the very real expectation they will go boom eventually. I do mine ABC in WH gravs though. Might think different if I was melting veld in a backwater with an Orca alt and a couple additonal mining alts to tag along. 'perfer et obdura; dolor hic tibi proderit olim' Be patient and tough; some day this pain will be useful to you.
Joyelle State War Academy Caldari State 3	Posted - 2012.03.21 21:44:00 - [27] - Quote 20mil an hr is just sad. I won't even login for such activity tbh but hey, it has to be done.
Tanya Powers Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 888	Posted - 2012.03.21 23:16:00 - [28] - Quote Darthewok wrote: Yes, Hulks are ridiculously overpriced for their profit making potential. 200mil hull cost to make 2-5mil ISK/hr in hisec or 10-20mil ISK/hr in null? Compare that to 60-120mil for a level 4 mission BS that can easily make 10-30mil ISK/hr in hi-sec... Hulks salvage is worth for much more than you can mine with. Thing is that if you're still mining you are doing it wrong, ganking is much more profitable right now and this is good to raise minerals price, but if you still mine don't sell your minerals idiots !! -stock Every time you are selling whatever amount of minerals right now you are just giving to those alliances, that already profit from your hulk salvage, the necessary minerals/ships at low cost so they can keep gank you and build Titas/supers for cheap. The meanwhile you wine on forums that gank is not fair. Open you eyes a little bit ^^
drdxie Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 60	Posted - 2012.03.21 23:33:00 - [29] - Quote If you not using T2 crystals on a Hulk, you be wasting time and isk....
Tikera Tissant 20	Posted - 2012.03.22 06:29:00 - [30] - Quote Oh man I love the numbers in this thread People don't know anything about mining and comparing it to missions.... geez A covetor with T1 strip miners and no crystals, will do at best 8mil / hour, without having to warp to station to unload If you have to go to station, you are looking at 6mil/hour at best A hulk with T1 strip miners and no crystals, will only do about 500K / hour more than a covetor. So no freakin wonder the OP doesn't see the reason to use a hulk.... ("no st" meme fits right here) A tanking hulk which can survive a single person gank, using T2 strip miners and crystals, will do about 2mil / hour more than a covetor A non-tanking hulk which will not survive a gank, will do another 2mil / hour more to about 12mil / hour, even with having to jump to station, which is about twice as much as a covetor A non-tanking hulk with good orca support, will do 20mil / hour (in practice, not theory numbers), 3 times the covetor the OP is most likely using. A tanking hulk will do 17mil / hour, also almost 3 times the covetor So hulk not worth the hull? Please... use some brain cells with the 3rd grade math skills you used to know but now let them die slowly. After a month of mining (about 1 hour a day), you can do the covetor income plus the cost of the hulk hull back, solo, compared to what the OP is using. Its like using a nightmare to do the starter missions and complaining its not worth the money... And comparint to missions? How many times people will keep doing that Mining is a semi afk no-brain no-gaming skills** profession You don't shoot anything except astroids, you don't need to use your brain at all nor really pay attention to details (except ganker warning once in awhile) Add mining with an indy alt, and its just as much of an income as missioning or even better And unlike missiners, a miner doesn't need as many skills, and be almost max mining in about 45-50 days (excluding exhumer 5), while missioners will need to spend more time to skill for the right ship, for the best weapons, spend a few billions to get really geared up to steam roll missions enough to make those 30mil / hour.

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