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Somealt Ofmine	Posted - 2008.08.07 23:39:00 - [1] So, all of this suicide uproar leaves me with a question. Someone in another thread said they figure that with the new "rules" the threshold for being "gank worthy" for a freighter would be about 600m in cargo. I have a small corp (just me and a few friends) and we build T2 ships, including T2 BS that go for up to 700m a pop. Obviously hauling just one of them in a freighter makes us "gank worthy". If we started escorting our freighers with a couple of ships, would Basilisks (remote repping) or Widows (jamming) be more effective, or do you think a two-ship escort would make much of a difference at all?
Kirex Vale Heavy Industries Molotov Coalition	Posted - 2008.08.07 23:45:00 - [2] 1) Rapier to web the freighter so they warp faster and scout the next system 2) Command ship with resists/HP gang mods You could probably get away with just one of them too.
Dirk Magnum Spearhead Endeavors	Posted - 2008.08.07 23:48:00 - [3] Originally by: Kirex 1) Rapier to web the freighter so they warp faster and scout the next system 2) Command ship with resists/HP gang mods You could probably get away with just one of them too. This. But why do even this? Everyone knows that Eve is a single player game and that bringing an escort for your freighter is WAY harder than whining about suicide ganks on the forum.
Cpt Branko Surge. NIght's Dawn	Posted - 2008.08.07 23:49:00 - [4] Originally by: Somealt Ofmine So, all of this suicide uproar leaves me with a question. Someone in another thread said they figure that with the new "rules" the threshold for being "gank worthy" for a freighter would be about 600m in cargo. Ahahahahah. That's just absurd. With the new rules, and assuming you're all using the cheapest available option for gank (say, a Typhoon), then we're talking about 60-65M per ship, minimum. Given that you will require a minimum of 12 top skilled (we're talking, 30M SP, not disposable alts, check the Typhoon if you're having any doubts) pilots to gank a Freighter, it equates to about 720M-780M per freighter to gank it. The freighter must be carrying at least double that amount for the gankers to break even (which makes it 1440M-1560M). Now, given the gankers will want to make a profit, given they're spending hours to in fact find a freighter carrying enough (let's say they spend three hours looking for a freighter), they will want to make, at the very least, 25M per every hour, or somewhere along the lines of 75M each assuming three hours spent waiting for a good freighter to come in, or 900M profit total. (All this is not taking the effect of sec hits naturally.) That raises the bar to roughly 1440-1560M plus a additional 1800M (900*2, half pops, remember) to make a profit. So there's no point in ganking a freighter carrying less then 3240-3360M. That said, the best thing you can do for escorts is: webbing freighter to instawarp, scout ahead. Logistics are OK is what worked best pre-patch and what will work best post-patch. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Somealt Ofmine	Posted - 2008.08.07 23:50:00 - [5] Originally by: Kirex 1) Rapier to web the freighter so they warp faster and scout the next system 2) Command ship with resists/HP gang mods You could probably get away with just one of them too. We all fly Caldari , so Rapier would be a load of training. Could use anything with duel webs, though, I guess. I know about webbing a freighter. Can you do that in Empire without getting Concorded? I've never tried it. Didn't think about using a CS, but that's an idea too. Would the resist/hp bonuses really be enough to slow the gankers down to the point where they die before killing the freighter?
Matalino Gallente Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2008.08.07 23:52:00 - [6] Originally by: Dirk Magnum Originally by: Kirex 1) Rapier to web the freighter so they warp faster and scout the next system 2) Command ship with resists/HP gang mods You could probably get away with just one of them too. This. But why do even this? Everyone knows that Eve is a single player game and that bringing an escort for your freighter is WAY harder than whining about suicide ganks on the forum. Whining on the forums is also more effective. It is not like there is any escort that can actually protect your freighter. The above suggestion is as good as it gets and still doesn't do the job.
Kirex Vale Heavy Industries Molotov Coalition	Posted - 2008.08.07 23:53:00 - [7] Originally by: Matalino Originally by: Dirk Magnum Originally by: Kirex 1) Rapier to web the freighter so they warp faster and scout the next system 2) Command ship with resists/HP gang mods You could probably get away with just one of them too. This. But why do even this? Everyone knows that Eve is a single player game and that bringing an escort for your freighter is WAY harder than whining about suicide ganks on the forum. Whining on the forums is also more effective. It is not like there is any escort that can actually protect your freighter. The above suggestion is as good as it gets and still doesn't do the job. Explain.
Wild Rho Amarr Silent Core	Posted - 2008.08.08 00:18:00 - [8] Edited by: Wild Rho on 08/08/2008 00:18:49 Originally by: Kirex 1) Rapier to web the freighter so they warp faster and scout the next system 2) Command ship with resists/HP gang mods You could probably get away with just one of them too. This is it really. Although the freighter pilot can also improve the situation by investing in implants to increase their hit points (slave implants, ZET type hardwirings etc). The extra hitpoints will complement the hitpoint and resistance increase from the command ship bonuses improving your chances of surviving an attack. Both the command ship and rapier should also probably fit remote repair modules and logistic drones as well. Using combat modules means there is a higher risk of your escorts accidental shooting the wrong ships during the initial confusion if you're hit and concord will supply the fire power for taking the targets down anyway. Oh and have a couple of your ships fit at least one or two remote hull repairs to be safe - nothing worse than docking a ship with alot of hull damage and not being allowed to undock until its repaired. And finally, a few logistics ships never hurt if you can spare them :)
Abrazzar	Posted - 2008.08.08 00:23:00 - [9] All you need to do is to keep the freighter alive long enough until CONCORD cleans up. So best ship to do that is any kind of Logistics ship, even T1 versions can make a difference. And yes, Rapier for webbing the freighter, making it warp that much faster. -------- Ideas for: Mining
Matalino Gallente Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2008.08.08 00:23:00 - [10] Originally by: Kirex Explain. What do you need to have explained? Most of a Freighters effective hit points comes from structure, so adding the gang bonus does little to increase the effective hit points. While your web will reduce the time it takes for the freighter to accelerate, it will not improve the time it takes to turn. That is still plenty of time for a gank squad to engage, if they choose the proper system to camp. Whining on the forums does very little: it has gotten insurance payouts removed, and a buff to security hits and possibly CONCORD response times. Your escort will do little more than encourage the gankers to be atleast as prepared as you are.

Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2008.08.08 01:13:00 - [11] Originally by: Somealt Ofmine Originally by: Kirex 1) Rapier to web the freighter so they warp faster and scout the next system 2) Command ship with resists/HP gang mods You could probably get away with just one of them too. We all fly Caldari , so Rapier would be a load of training. Could use anything with duel webs, though, I guess. I know about webbing a freighter. Can you do that in Empire without getting Concorded? I've never tried it. Didn't think about using a CS, but that's an idea too. Would the resist/hp bonuses really be enough to slow the gankers down to the point where they die before killing the freighter? just use a crow, set orbit to 5km or so, hit the mwd, lock the freighter and when in range hit the web.
SuicidalMerchant Republic University	Posted - 2008.08.08 01:33:00 - [12] Isnt the activation time on most repair modules too long to deal with the burst damage?
Lothros Andastar Gallente	Posted - 2008.08.08 02:45:00 - [13] Originally by: SuicidalMerchant Isnt the activation time on most repair modules too long to deal with the burst damage? The whole 5 seconds of it? yeah much too long
Somealt Ofmine	Posted - 2008.08.08 02:45:00 - [14] Edited by: Somealt Ofmine on 08/08/2008 02:46:34 Originally by: Abrazzar All you need to do is to keep the freighter alive long enough until CONCORD cleans up. So best ship to do that is any kind of Logistics ship, even T1 versions can make a difference. And yes, Rapier for webbing the freighter, making it warp that much faster. That was my first thought. A pair of Basilisks could rep about 2K DPS for the critical seconds that it would take concord to engage. Could make the difference between success or failure for the gankers. As mentioned above, though, if they have us scouted they'd know the logistics were there, and would bring a couple more ships if it was cost justified. At the very least it raises the break-even point for them and might convince them to look for a softer target. My other thought was using Widows. Thought being that if we could get just a few of them jammed it might lower the DPS enough that the freighter lives until they get concorded.
Devilish Ledoux Caldari Ledoux Holdings	Posted - 2008.08.08 02:50:00 - [15] Edited by: Devilish Ledoux on 08/08/2008 02:52:28 If you're Caldari-heavy, then Widows or Rooks/Falcons (or even Blackbirds) are probably your best bet. If your freighter pilot says he's being targeted, then the escorts should immediately target anyone in the same corp as the potential hostile. If they open fire, you hit them with ECM. Up to 6 of their ships stop shooting, their DPS goes to hell, Concord kills them, job done. Of course, once a potential attacker sees ECM ships targeting them, they'll need to recalculate their odds, which takes time, which means that they'll be very unlikely to engage ... which is kind of the point. _
Lance Fighter Amarr	Posted - 2008.08.08 02:57:00 - [16] The way I see it, most things would be useless... However, webs (as long as in same corp) is an INSTA warp from gate to gate, (given no autopilot). It doesnt matter what way you are facing. I would say if you can get a basi pilot to follow around your freighter all the time (preferably with max gang skills... 10% armor/shields helps... every little bit does) if you see a load of BS at the gate you are at, lock it, and as soon as you see the first damage, (hell, as SOON as someone locks the freighter really), start the xfers (slightly cycled, to account for filling up the entirety of the frieghters shields), it should help. Maybe a dozen t1 throwaway frigates with ECM bursts might help too (losing precious dps time is bad)
Sergeant Spot Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.08.08 04:50:00 - [17] Edited by: Sergeant Spot on 08/08/2008 04:51:22 Webbing the frieghter to shrink the window of opportunity of hostiles is good. However, if they are ready, at least one of their ships will have boosted lock time, and will have a very very good chance of getting a warp disruption point on the Freighter before it can warp, friendly web or not. Logistics and Command ships can help, but not much. A Frieghter is mostly structure. Truth is, unless the suicide gankers cut thing EXTREMELY close, A command ship and Logistics will be worthless. A better bet would be a couple of Scorps with ECM. Assuming a Scorpion acts fast, it can Jam two attackers soon enough to eliminate 75% to 100% of the damage they would have done. Play nice while you butcher each other.
Admiral Pelleon Caldari White Shadow Imperium Burning Horizons	Posted - 2008.08.08 04:53:00 - [18] Originally by: Cpt Branko Originally by: Somealt Ofmine So, all of this suicide uproar leaves me with a question. Someone in another thread said they figure that with the new "rules" the threshold for being "gank worthy" for a freighter would be about 600m in cargo. Ahahahahah. That's just absurd. With the new rules, and assuming you're all using the cheapest available option for gank (say, a Typhoon), then we're talking about 60-65M per ship, minimum. Given that you will require a minimum of 12 top skilled (we're talking, 30M SP, not disposable alts, check the Typhoon if you're having any doubts) pilots to gank a Freighter, it equates to about 720M-780M per freighter to gank it. The freighter must be carrying at least double that amount for the gankers to break even (which makes it 1440M-1560M). Now, given the gankers will want to make a profit, given they're spending hours to in fact find a freighter carrying enough (let's say they spend three hours looking for a freighter), they will want to make, at the very least, 25M per every hour, or somewhere along the lines of 75M each assuming three hours spent waiting for a good freighter to come in, or 900M profit total. (All this is not taking the effect of sec hits naturally.) That raises the bar to roughly 1440-1560M plus a additional 1800M (900*2, half pops, remember) to make a profit. So there's no point in ganking a freighter carrying less then 3240-3360M. That said, the best thing you can do for escorts is: webbing freighter to instawarp, scout ahead. Logistics are OK is what worked best pre-patch and what will work best post-patch. Insurance. ________ My views represent the views of my corp, deal with it.
Qwert0	Posted - 2008.08.08 05:27:00 - [19] Originally by: Admiral Pelleon Originally by: Cpt Branko Originally by: Somealt Ofmine snip Insurance Originally by: Devblog In addition, the highly requested feature of removal of insurance in CONCORD related events will be implemented in the near future.


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