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Elrca
Brutor tribe
   |
Posted - 2008.08.08 07:36:00 -
[1]
*prepares flame proof suit
a question to CCP..Where is the "risk vs reward" where can I get insanely rich?
Well theres null sec mining...oh,,wait drone regions messed that up...
Ok well theres null sec ratting...oh,, wait safe highsec with lvl4 agents,
Ok...well Market...oh,, wait thats just boring...
I've played the game since Sept '05 I enjoyed it, moving to 0.0 to make a fortune and enjoy some good PVP.
A lot has changed in my, almost, 3 years of playing. SOme changes brought ballance, and others broke what the game ment "Risk vs reward".
I understand the need to fix the sec stat and high sec ganking, but this breaks the game idea of "Risk vs reward"
I've tried to adapt to all the "ballance" fixes, but the game is becoming more boring because there is very little risk!.
Whats the point in 0.0 space? Mainly complexes and PvP, itused to be the place of great fortune, now only a select few run 10/10's. With vl4 agents being very safe, ratting in 0.0 is not worth the risk.
Where is this "Risk vs reward"?
No I'm not quitting, yes it is a whine, oh IBTL
Obvious alt is obvious!
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Banana Torres
Federal Defence Union
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Posted - 2008.08.08 07:43:00 -
[2]
 Originally by: Elrca
Ok well theres null sec ratting...oh,, wait safe highsec with lvl4 agents,
If you can't make more nullsec ratting than you would make running highsec missions then either your alliance is crap and can't protect you will you rat in peace or you are doing it wrong.
Originally by: Elrca
Where is this "Risk vs reward"?
Once you remove your impediment to making money in nullsec it should become apparent.
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Zomiaen
Gallente
Ore Mongers
Black Hand.
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Posted - 2008.08.08 07:46:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Zomiaen on 08/08/2008 07:51:22
Originally by: Banana Torres
Originally by: Elrca
Ok well theres null sec ratting...oh,, wait safe highsec with lvl4 agents,
If you can't make more nullsec ratting than you would make running highsec missions then either your alliance is crap and can't protect you will you rat in peace or you are doing it wrong.
Originally by: Elrca
Where is this "Risk vs reward"?
Once you remove your impediment to making money in nullsec it should become apparent.
He's saying there is very little ISK to be made outside of Empire, where there is very little risk.
It's the basic risk/reward whine: Nullsec offers too much risk, with not enough reward to warrent it, while empire highsec offers too much reward, with virtually no risk.
---
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Nathanial Victor
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.08.08 07:49:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Zomiaen
Originally by: Banana Torres
Originally by: Elrca
Ok well theres null sec ratting...oh,, wait safe highsec with lvl4 agents,
If you can't make more nullsec ratting than you would make running highsec missions then either your alliance is crap and can't protect you will you rat in peace or you are doing it wrong.
Originally by: Elrca
Where is this "Risk vs reward"?
Once you remove your impediment to making money in nullsec it should become apparent.
He's saying there is very little ISK to be made outside of Empire, where there is very little risk.
It's the basic risk/reword whine: Nullsec offers too much risk, with not enough reward to warrent it, while empire highsec offers too much reward, with virtually no risk.
dude, risk vs reward?
whats that, i'm a salvage thief?????
what is this risk you speak of?
"one more spam thread will get you a warning.
- Thanks Hutch. "
isn't a warning of a warning a warning? or just a warning of a warning? didnt he just get 'the warning'?
my head hurts |
Elrca
Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2008.08.08 07:49:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Elrca on 08/08/2008 07:52:47
And is the problem you see, 0.0 ratting is risky When I ratted in 0.0 1.5 years ago) I amde roughly 35mil for 2 hours work. I didnt loot so it could have been more. Not too bad, I returned to 0.0 6 months ago, tried ratting, but was so hostile I could only make 15mil in the same time. Missioning in high sec produced better ISK per hour.
The point is either move lvl4's to riskier places or boost the isk making from rats in 0.0.
Sorry I never notice this post regarding agents but he has a similar point.
Edit:
Oh and when I returned to 0.0 I was told by corp directors to get a empire alt to run lvl4's as its "easier"
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Banana Torres
Federal Defence Union
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Posted - 2008.08.08 07:58:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Zomiaen
It's the basic risk/reword whine: Nullsec offers too much risk, with not enough reward to warrent it, while empire highsec offers too much reward, with virtually no risk.
And I'm saying if he aint making money in null sec he is doing it wrong.
I know that there has been many changes since I lived in null sec, you can no longer see the rats on the scanner for example. But I seem to remember being able to make 50Million/hour in rat bounties alone.
In both level 4 missions and null sec ratting the main source of income is the bounties on the battleship rats. The skill in both cases is how to maximise the number of battleships.
The much touted 25million/hour for level 4 mission running is only available to those that know how to game the system. The average Joe running missions makes about half that. In a similar way you won't make the most ISK null sec ratting if you just plod from belt to belt killing rats as you go.
My hunch is that a good 0.0 ratter could make twice what a good highsec mission runner could make. And that assumes he doesn't strike it rich with a cool officer mod.
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Aubrey Luna
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Posted - 2008.08.08 08:03:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Aubrey Luna on 08/08/2008 08:02:56
ops
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Elrca
Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2008.08.08 08:04:00 -
[8]
Oh and what about Ratting blobs in 0.0, ofthen I found 6-7 pilots in areas ratting.....
So how was I doing it wrong?
I moved several jumps from station system, HIGH RISK, but lower true null sec, rat spawns where crap. Station systems are nearer true -1.0 and often many people ratting in same system.
Maybe it depends on your game time, for me its was always peak times! and the fact directors told me "do lvl4;s in empire" means even top people relise empire is too safe for the rewards.
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Dracorimus
Caldari
Edge Inc.
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Posted - 2008.08.08 09:13:00 -
[9]
I used to make a ton ratting in 0.0, your'e obviously doing it wrong, especially when you happen to get officer spawns.
-
Die faster damnit! |
Thule Cult
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Posted - 2008.08.08 09:14:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Elrca
*prepares flame proof suit
a question to CCP..Where is the "risk vs reward" where can I get insanely rich?
Well theres null sec mining...oh,,wait drone regions messed that up...
Ok well theres null sec ratting...oh,, wait safe highsec with lvl4 agents,
Ok...well Market...oh,, wait thats just boring...
I've played the game since Sept '05 I enjoyed it, moving to 0.0 to make a fortune and enjoy some good PVP.
A lot has changed in my, almost, 3 years of playing. SOme changes brought ballance, and others broke what the game ment "Risk vs reward".
I understand the need to fix the sec stat and high sec ganking, but this breaks the game idea of "Risk vs reward"
I've tried to adapt to all the "ballance" fixes, but the game is becoming more boring because there is very little risk!.
Whats the point in 0.0 space? Mainly complexes and PvP, itused to be the place of great fortune, now only a select few run 10/10's. With vl4 agents being very safe, ratting in 0.0 is not worth the risk.
Where is this "Risk vs reward"?
No I'm not quitting, yes it is a whine, oh IBTL
Obvious alt is obvious!
Hit 0.0 and you will make tons of iskies... Even more by rat hunting than missions in high sec. |
Reven Cordelle
Caldari
School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2008.08.08 09:34:00 -
[11]
Low sec exploration in a quiet system will make you a shitload of isk, team up with a buddy who has a decent ship and if anyone scans you down, then they're probably incredibly bored or an opportunist. For example, chunks of black rise are quite often never populated.
Low sec exploration is probably the safest method as it gets you away from prying eyes and puts you as a person in local that no one can find.
Plus you can make billions in true low sec in the space of a lucky hour.
Ratting in Low Sec will make equal or more amounts of isk/time compared to level 4s. You also get better drops, hauler spawns and possibly an officer spawn if you're very lucky.
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Mr Abbadon
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Posted - 2008.08.08 09:36:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Reven Cordelle
Low sec exploration in a quiet system will make you a shitload of isk, team up with a buddy who has a decent ship and if anyone scans you down, then they're probably incredibly bored or an opportunist. For example, chunks of black rise are quite often never populated.
Low sec exploration is probably the safest method as it gets you away from prying eyes and puts you as a person in local that no one can find.
Plus you can make billions in true low sec in the space of a lucky hour.
Ratting in Low Sec will make equal or more amounts of isk/time compared to level 4s. You also get better drops, hauler spawns and possibly an officer spawn if you're very lucky.
correct but the bullies cry because they got a high sec nerf :) |
DragonRiderTao
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Posted - 2008.08.08 22:27:00 -
[13]
Risk is anything that is not growth. Do know what you seek.
How many dragons can you slay? You cant slay mine. |
Atlas Oracle
Minmatar
Native Freshfood
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Posted - 2008.08.08 22:32:00 -
[14]
another one of these...
/wrists
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Ruze
Amarr
No Applicable Corporation
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Posted - 2008.08.08 22:32:00 -
[15]
As one player put it, part of the 'risk' in nulsec is not even finding a place where profit can be made. Some places just suck for ratting, just like many moons just suck for moon mining. That's part of that 'risk vs. rewards' equation, ain't it?
So you want security? That's perfectly alright.
But you should be willing to trade freedom and profit for that security. |
Loyal Servant
Caldari
PURE Legion
Pure.
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Posted - 2008.08.08 23:26:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Loyal Servant on 08/08/2008 23:26:38
You can make more running level 4 missions than you can 0.0 ratting.
That is why a LOT of your isk farmers do it.
Great gains, little risk.
Watch what the farmers are doing, because the goal of an isk farmer is to make
as much cash as possible, with as little risk as possible and as fast as possible.
The number of 0.0 ratters is starting to drop as they move on to mission farming in empire as well as ice mining.
This is also why there is an ever increasing number of capital fights and massive blobs.
As it becomes cheaper to operate a capital ship due to the fact that the market is being flooded on a daily basis by isk farmers that mine ice 23/7 more people fly capital ships.
When you have capital fleets on the orders of 100+ then it is expected that you have support to warrant that size capital gang so your support numbers swell.
more caps = more support = more lag
more isk farmers flooding the markets = cheaper goods = increased numbers of fights = more lag
We can blame isk farmers, can we not? 
Some of this is half truths.
Edit: most of it is :)
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Captain Porter
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Posted - 2008.08.08 23:35:00 -
[17]
There are level 4 agents in low sec. To get the best quality level 4 you have to go to low sec unless there is an agent I missed.
If you want the risk run the level 4's in low sec. Other pilots will probe/scan out your deadspace and be more than willing to assist you.
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Captain Porter
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Posted - 2008.08.08 23:38:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Loyal Servant
Edited by: Loyal Servant on 08/08/2008 23:26:38
You can make more running level 4 missions than you can 0.0 ratting.
That is why a LOT of your isk farmers do it.
Yes, but what the isk farmers keep forgetting is that I can build up my sec status really high then scan/probe them out and assist them carrying back that heavy load they have in their cargo hold.
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Somealt Ofmine
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Posted - 2008.08.08 23:52:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Loyal Servant
Edited by: Loyal Servant on 08/08/2008 23:26:38
You can make more running level 4 missions than you can 0.0 ratting.
That is why a LOT of your isk farmers do it.
Great gains, little risk.
If you're an isk farmer being paid to farm, you can 6 box level 4s, yes. That will in fact net you more than ratting in 0.0 where you have to pay attention or you lose ships and go backwards. One ship doing a level 4 cannot make more than 1 ship ratting in 0.0. Just can't.
Quote:
Watch what the farmers are doing, because the goal of an isk farmer is to make
as much cash as possible, with as little risk as possible and as fast as possible.
Only do this if you want to play like a sweatshop worker in a third-world country grinding out enough coin for your nightly cup of noodles and rat-meat. If that is your idea of a good time, yes, most certainly, watch what the farmers do.
Quote:
The number of 0.0 ratters is starting to drop as they move on to mission farming in empire as well as ice mining.
Ice mining is something else that you can 6-box. Again, if your reason for logging into a game is to make yourself into a sweatshop worker, knock yourself out.
Quote:
This is also why there is an ever increasing number of capital fights and massive blobs.
As it becomes cheaper to operate a capital ship due to the fact that the market is being flooded on a daily basis by isk farmers that mine ice 23/7 more people fly capital ships.
You are arguing that you'd like to see run-away inflation so that most high end goods become unobtainable except to the player-elite who play 40+ hours a week. Some games are like that. They tend to peak and then go into a long decline as starting a new character becomes less and less attractive. Ever wonder why Eve continues to grow? One reason is that it isn't like that.
Quote:
When you have capital fleets on the orders of 100+ then it is expected that you have support to warrant that size capital gang so your support numbers swell.
more caps = more support = more lag
more isk farmers flooding the markets = cheaper goods = increased numbers of fights = more lag
We can blame isk farmers, can we not?
Partly. Some of it is also due to players in some of the elite alliances who have 6 accounts and spend most of their waking hours in game. Every game has those, and it always makes it hard for less dedicated (or addicted, depending on your point of view) players to compete.
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