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Caste Ling
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Posted - 2008.08.11 03:15:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Caste Ling on 11/08/2008 03:20:13 I read about people's IPO's all the time and they always seem to have some complex business plan and I've yet to really read about anything relatively simple.
I currently make a bit of isk on the side by buying all the ingredients I need to make something (mostly t2 frig/cruisers) at a lowish price (ie jita), have the mass of ingredients freighted to a system I like to manufacture and sell from, manufacture and sell the items, and repeat.
At it's very simplest I can turn 155mil into 190 mil *accounting for all material costs, invention costs, hauling costs* almost guaranteed all from sitting within stations on a couple alts (one in jita, one in the station actually used for manufacturing/selling final product). It is not a vast amount of isk in small terms at all (anyone can make more running missions), but it is a fun use of spreadsheets - which I actually enjoy utilizing.
As my spreadsheets grow I find I can make more and more (in terms of exponential vs simply being linear growth) with the more isk I pump into my little system. So 155mil isk gives me 190, which is about 22% increase, if I put 580mil in I could return 398 which is about a 68% increase.
It is important to realize that I could also get more complex and actually manufacture all t2 components instead of simply purchasing them off the market - but I've been doing this pretty small time.
My manufacturing character's skills (couple of weeks from making t2 battleships) and my current wallet of isk are what seem to be limiting my growth as the market I'm aiming for has enough demand.
This is a simple business plan that I'm sure many players utilize, but I have not seen an ipo for a corp that would actually do just this (although it seems likely that there have been some).
Would this be worthy of organizing to go large scale and having my corp offer an IPO to get things really going?
Or is the plan just too common?
Thanks for any input.
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cosmoray
Cosmoray Construction
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Posted - 2008.08.11 03:19:00 -
[2]
I am sure if you had an audit, that proved you have the skills to use the freighter and produce the T2 ships you could probably run up some financing.
Better business plan than trading
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Caste Ling
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Posted - 2008.08.11 03:21:00 -
[3]
Originally by: cosmoray I am sure if you had an audit, that proved you have the skills to use the freighter and produce the T2 ships you could probably run up some financing.
Better business plan than trading
I actually don't even freight, I utilize a popular known service (RF Freight or Industries or whatever it is).
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Ricdics
Corporate Placement Holding
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Posted - 2008.08.11 03:48:00 -
[4]
I would suggest it might be wise to downsize a bit. The problem with T2 Battleship production is that it chews up a lot of capital and sometimes may not be worth the margins (especially when factoring in invention or chance based results). |
Caste Ling
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Posted - 2008.08.11 03:54:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Caste Ling on 11/08/2008 03:54:48
Originally by: Ricdics I would suggest it might be wise to downsize a bit. The problem with T2 Battleship production is that it chews up a lot of capital and sometimes may not be worth the margins (especially when factoring in invention or chance based results).
I actually haven't calculated any T2 battleship numbers because I cannot actually produce any of those yet, I have only run numbers I could produce either now or within the next week or so.
I'll keep that in mind though as I expand my collection of spreadsheets .
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Caste Ling
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Posted - 2008.08.12 22:13:00 -
[6]
Originally by: cosmoray I am sure if you had an audit, that proved you have the skills to use the freighter and produce the T2 ships you could probably run up some financing.
Wouldn't an InEve.com verified skill listing of my characters skills be more publicly available (as suggested in one of the guides listed in a sticky at the top)? Not that I am opposed to auditing, just wanna keep where I sell things as quiet as possible.
This venture is very safe, even if I get wardeced - I never really have to leave a station. If one of my couriers of goods gets blown up - its got a deposit to cover it. I don't make the most amount of isk I could be making (if I streamlined the process and hauled myself, etc), but I never am handling product outside of a station - I feel I am safe as long as from the time I buy the materials to the time I have a ship on the market, the ship doesn't plummet tremendously in value (which I guess could occur rarely).
As I have stated above, I can make more profit with a larger amount of input, but I do not know the limitations to this. I do not know how much isk I can put in before I am unable to manage it properly and effectively push product out the backside. The most isk I generally have on hand at a given time hovers around 300-600mil (I do other things in game aside from manufacturing), I'd like to try this out with maybe around a billion isk just to see how well I can maintain it.
Would I be better off trying to get a loan (do not have much collateral at the time, things are lean), or attempting a small ipo for a plan that coincides with what I have described here?
Any input on this discussion is welcome.
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Caste Ling
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Posted - 2008.08.12 22:18:00 -
[7]
Also, I'm willing to write out more detailed exactly what I do - leaving out item names/locations - to give people a better idea of what I'm talking about if that's desired.
Let me know.
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Ulecese
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Posted - 2008.08.12 23:32:00 -
[8]
I would be willing to take a look at your business idea and offer you some guidelines/advice if needed, I'd even do a report to confirm wether or not you can do what you say you can do.
I have been dealing in invention-production since it came out so I think I could be a good a judge as anyone regarding this area of business. I've ran a successful private IPO for nearly 9 months now with invention-production being it's primary avenue of profit. I sell in one location now, here - Ihatalo IGB shop so moving operations into a new area isn't of interest to me, meaning your area of business would not come under direct competition from me.
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cosmoray
Cosmoray Construction
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Posted - 2008.08.12 23:58:00 -
[9]
If your already on eve-skills that will be a big help to you.
Just launch it.
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Caste Ling
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Posted - 2008.08.13 00:29:00 -
[10]
Originally by: cosmoray If your already on eve-skills that will be a big help to you.
The char that does the actual manufacturing is named Assum Bli, and is already up there, so that's handy.
http://ineve.net/skills/character.php?charID=MTIyMTY1OTgxMg%3D%3D
In terms of, "just launching it," I'd like to spend a little more time getting mild input before I jump to that point.
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cosmoray
Cosmoray Construction
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Posted - 2008.08.13 02:40:00 -
[11]
Do some research with your corp, come up with a proper business plan and see if the numbers add up. You will need to pay a reasonable dividend monthly, and keep some profits (management fee) for yourself.
Look up Hexx's IPO template when you think you are ready.
Don't be too greedy, ask for what you really need not mega billions because you won't get it.
You will have to do all the research yourself.
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cosmoray
Cosmoray Construction
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Posted - 2008.08.13 14:57:00 -
[12]
The character has enough skills to do the manufacturing.
I like the fact that you want to try for a billion ISK to see how you do, so you don't get over your head first time.
Write up a business plan if your up to it, set up a holding corp. You will need to make some profit projections (I would take a management fee of about 25-40%). The dividends after fees will need to be >6% per month to attract investment.
If you go ahead with this (keeping it small), and launch an IPO, I will reserve 200M (no audit required but I will read the IPO document).
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Caste Ling
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Posted - 2008.08.14 12:56:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Caste Ling on 14/08/2008 12:57:46 Thanks a lot for the input and I have a business plan just about written out. (More importantly my spreadsheets are completely hammered out and I can account for every detail of every transaction - brokers fees, sales tax, volume needed to be moved at every step, etc.)
I am leaving the country (no internet) for a week for vacation purposes starting next monday, so I will not bother posting anything before I get back the following saturday.
You should see me on the forums after that point.
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Snasty
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Posted - 2008.08.14 13:10:00 -
[14]
Originally by: cosmoray If you go ahead with this (keeping it small), and launch an IPO, I will reserve 200M (no audit required but I will read the IPO document).
Ditto.
I would like to reserve 200 million, potentially more on viewing the IPO when its ready.
Good luck chap.
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Kris Longknife
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Posted - 2008.08.14 16:15:00 -
[15]
My are out in the wild and wide and replacing ship losses is a daily grind. Tech one is relatively easy. Tech 2 is a pain in the ass. Getting the reactions up here with maximum BoB is a chore and those pilots that can do the tech 2 production don't want, understandably so, to spend a lot of time carebearing it up in empire. Pending Audit I would be willing to both invest in the opration and provide a guarantied market for the ships. From what is sounds like we could eat up all your current production no problem. Having a guy who could just take care of tech2 frigates and cruisers for us, for a suitable piece of the action, would be very helpful EVE mail me in game or PM and we'll talk specifics.
Kris.
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Todoshi
Caldari Caldari Logistics and Supplies
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Posted - 2008.08.14 16:39:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Snasty
Originally by: cosmoray If you go ahead with this (keeping it small), and launch an IPO, I will reserve 200M (no audit required but I will read the IPO document).
Ditto.
I would like to reserve 200 million, potentially more on viewing the IPO when its ready.
Good luck chap.
and i would be willing to invest 200mil if your ipo looks good and your figures add up
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Kazzac Elentria
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Posted - 2008.08.14 17:58:00 -
[17]
I'd do the audit for you, but I'd like to reserve investment.
My only concern is how will you address the limited build slot and time penalty that invented BPs give. |
Caste Ling
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Posted - 2008.08.15 04:50:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Kazzac Elentria
My only concern is how will you address the limited build slot and time penalty that invented BPs give.
I've been thinking about that and, although not all of my production is TII production, when I plan on making higher end TII ships, if I dropped 30 ships on the market it would be nice and convenient, but I wouldn't expect them to sell any faster than if I put say 3-5 up a day (the sales of these ships at the price I want aren't any faster than this), which I could easily keep up with production times / production slot limitations.
And in terms of actual invention, while I'm working this all out, I really would like to have the invention phase done before I would consider opening an IPO. That way I already know exactly how much I invested in getting the invention jobs done, and I would avoid the misfortune of spending a week or two inventing and getting hardly anything out of it (due to chance) - since it would already be taken care of.
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Telameto
Gallente Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2008.08.15 18:46:00 -
[19]
I like what I hear so far, sounds thought out. I'll review the thread later and see if you're ready for the market.
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Wraith Harvester
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Posted - 2008.08.15 22:54:00 -
[20]
You see now i like that, as to say that hirr guy Ray something, that sell's bonds for a billion, probably of the back of a Dispurium mine thats some poor noobs in MM spend fortunes a weak in protecting, loosing there ships in the name of pvp, honour and the rest of the ****zle the alliances spout, all for a few belts to rat in. bad ethics
Big potatoes to the little guys, trying to make it, wish there was some way you could trust peeps more, maybe pay concord a tax, to grab offenders assets and haul before a jovian court, to have themselves supersized through over indulgence in long limb roe burgers.
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Antarr Slagh
Trans Eve Organization
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Posted - 2008.08.16 01:50:00 -
[21]
Talk to me... I'd be willing to make a small investment.
--------------------------------------------- Runner of the Fleet Lottos! |
Calgorac
The Arrow Project Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2008.08.16 02:17:00 -
[22]
depending on the ROI you can give, Id be willing to invest
For Buy back option Contact "James Omerand" ingame.39 billion under Management |
Caste Ling
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Posted - 2008.08.16 05:35:00 -
[23]
Thank you all for the encouraging words. Like I said I will be out of range of the internet for the next Monday-Saturday, but after that you'll likely be hearing from me again, with greater details.
A side note - my current full-fledged project via self-investment has turned out really well, so I feel pretty comfortable with my ability to offer a decent return on a small IPO.
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Caste Ling
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Posted - 2008.08.24 06:08:00 -
[24]
I've posted a draft IPO for everyone to inspect, let me know what you think:
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=853891&page=1
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