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Eve PVP- where is it headed? You tell me....

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Hugh Ruka Exploratio et Industria Morispatia	Posted - 2008.08.11 10:54:00 - [1] So you joined the whining piwat ranks too ? I thought you'd know better. It seems that the "happy ganker" attitude is starting to show more and more often with more people joining EvE. I've been playing this game for some time now and never had any problem with pirates and such, not even on the forums. Yet lately some whines are too much for my liking. There are more and more kiddies here that think making the game miserable for everybody else is great fun. That attitude will kill EvE a lot faster than CCP nerfs. --- SIG --- CSM: your support is needed !
Hugh Ruka Exploratio et Industria Morispatia	Posted - 2008.08.11 11:21:00 - [2] Originally by: Bellum Eternus Everyone has the exact same opportunity to kill everyone else. That's what makes Eve such a great game. If I wanted safety and boredom, I'd go play WoW. I hate WoW. WoW ****ing sucks. Why? Because all the stupid people can do just as well as all the really smart people. Why? Because it's too simple and easy. Bolded important part. Many people forget that the majority of the MMO folks are ones that want to build something. It is the same as real life actualy. You can't change human nature. Destruction is easy compared to creation. That's why people are risk averse. It takes longer to gain something than to loose. What CCP is doing is just to give everybody about the same fighting chance. Even the inexperienced have more time to react and more options to respond. Not just "Oh F<BOOM>". Go play some FPS if you want instant PvP without restrictions. An RPG is not the correct game type for that. --- SIG --- CSM: your support is needed !
Hugh Ruka Exploratio et Industria Morispatia	Posted - 2008.08.11 11:33:00 - [3] Originally by: Furb Killer What i really like to know, there seems to be two opinions here: Eve is going to die/suck because people cant escape from blobs. In other words: Nanos cant escape when jumping into a larger fleet. Eve is going to die/suck because people can escape non consensual combat. In other words: Ships can escape when jumping into a larger fleet (or at least when they are outgunned). I like to know which one exactly is the reason eve is going to die/suck. /thread and sig material --- SIG --- CSM: your support is needed !
Hugh Ruka Exploratio et Industria Morispatia	Posted - 2008.08.11 13:34:00 - [4] Originally by: Sumiya Tanaka Petition to CCP: Fix Low Sec! Low sec is like the poor bastard child of EVE, really. High sec is where everyone throngs, and null-sec is what CCP cares about, but low sec is just kind of the red-headed stepchild of the game, atm. There is no fix for lowsec. It's the player created Hell of EvE that everybody wants it to be just nobody has the balls to admit it. Pirate/PvP/PK ridden hell which has no brakes and no matter how juicy you make the bait look like, no sane carebear will ever stay there unless protected. I have lived almost in every security part of EvE. I find alliance 0.0 the most fun one with highsec level 4s close behind. The first one for the opportunities as well as the danger and the second one for the calm game time I want to have at times with a few friends. --- SIG --- CSM: your support is needed !
Hugh Ruka Exploratio et Industria Morispatia	Posted - 2008.08.11 13:51:00 - [5] Edited by: Hugh Ruka on 11/08/2008 13:53:15 Originally by: Le Skunk Originally by: Hugh Ruka ...PK ... lol SKUNK killing evrything that jumps through a gate is not piracy. Piracy by definition has economic(sp?) motives behind. that includes making sure the target is worth the ammo you are wasting. every carebear would be ok if lowsec only had proper wars and proper piracy. it's the senseless PKing that's the problem. --- SIG --- CSM: your support is needed !
Hugh Ruka Exploratio et Industria Morispatia	Posted - 2008.08.11 13:58:00 - [6] Originally by: Maximillian Bayonette Originally by: Hugh Ruka killing evrything that jumps through a gate is not piracy. Piracy by definition has economic(sp?) motives behind. that includes making sure the target is worth the ammo you are wasting. every carebear would be ok if lowsec only had proper wars and proper piracy. it's the senseless PKing that's the problem. Didn't realise you where the judge on what constitutes piracy and not. Sorry 'bout that. don't be an idiot and try to read: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piracy --- SIG --- CSM: your support is needed !
Hugh Ruka Exploratio et Industria Morispatia	Posted - 2008.08.11 13:59:00 - [7] Originally by: Zephyr Rengate Senseless Pkin is what makes Low sec great. orly ? there are too many 'fix lowsec' threads then from clueless people :-) seems there is nothing to fix and you are extremely happy about the state of lowsec. next time I see a whine thread from a pirate that want's to push people out of highsec, I will link your post :-) --- SIG --- CSM: your support is needed !
Hugh Ruka Exploratio et Industria Morispatia	Posted - 2008.08.11 14:19:00 - [8] Originally by: Maximillian Bayonette Originally by: Hugh Ruka don't be an idiot and try to read: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piracy Nice link. I especially like the actual defenition. Originally by: your link Maritime piracy, according to the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS) of 1982, consists of any criminal acts of violence, detention, or depredation committed for private ends by the crew or the passengers of a private ship or aircraft that is directed on the high seas against another ship, aircraft, or against persons or property on board a ship or aircraft. Doesn't say anything about economic reasons. Just "private ends" which can be just about anything. Way to shoot your argument in the foot, m8 way to ignore the historical background ... --- SIG --- CSM: your support is needed !
Hugh Ruka Exploratio et Industria Morispatia	Posted - 2008.08.11 14:46:00 - [9] Originally by: Maximillian Bayonette Originally by: Hugh Ruka way to ignore the historical background ... Didn't you say that piracy by defenition is about economy? I'm pretty sure you did. The link you provided proved you wrong. About the historical background, are you telling me that RL pirates never killed anyone if it wasn't for profit? Oh I did not say that they did not kill anyone if it wasn't for profit. Just IRL we have the thing called permanent death. So before you commit piracy, you generaly make sure it is worth it just in case it might not go the way you want it to. You see this game should be fun. Bellum mentioned he's trying his limits in PvP. Well I am trying my limits in this game too. F.e. how best to evade pirates in lowsec while doing my bussiness. With "sensless PKin" all around, there simply is one less limit to explore. With "proper piracy" (as I stated it), I could go around lowsec as a low priority target while still enjoying it. See the difference ? There is nothing for me in lowsec that would be worth the risk. Lowsec is a myth. It existed only in the early stages of the game, when the population was small enough to make you feel safe in some cases. Now even 0.0 is preferable to lowsec. What most people don't get here is that a PVP MMORPG is a MYTH. It does not exist and will never exist. It's either an FPS with RPG categories st****d in, or a strategy game. RPG is about story and a story needs to build and continue. You can't make a continuous story about destruction simply because you will soon run out of things to destroy. Generaly I do not mind PvP. 0.0 is great for that. There are some things wrong with POS warfare and sov mechanics, but those can be ironed out. But 0.0 is the kind of placy I'd expect to find PvP. Lowsec is for Piracy, however this needs to be controlled. You have to have more builders than pirates or it will not work. Look at how it is now. There are more pirates than other types of players in lowsec and it is clearly broken. --- SIG --- CSM: your support is needed !
Hugh Ruka Exploratio et Industria Morispatia	Posted - 2008.08.11 14:59:00 - [10] Edited by: Hugh Ruka on 11/08/2008 15:00:25 Originally by: Cpt Branko stuff ... 1. about the things you looted - well those were random drops. and NOTE those were targets well worth the act of piracy. You are always ignoring my economic argument. Killing everything left, right and center with the loot as bonus makes you a PK. A pirate would look at targets, scan the cargo and modules and then attack. I know there are mechanics absent from the game that would help with this. 2. lowsec being less profitable than highsec is not the issue. if you nerf highsec profits, I will go directly 0.0. There is no reason now or in the future to make me live in lowsec. all you will accomplish is to drive off some players and limit the game for other. also the lowsec indistrialista are there only for the factory/lab slots and POSes. or are you seriously claiming somebody is fool enough to mine there ? they are importing all the materials and components. --- SIG --- CSM: your support is needed !

Hugh Ruka Exploratio et Industria Morispatia	Posted - 2008.08.11 15:52:00 - [11] Branko and Maximillian, you are picking only on those parts of my posts that suit your argument and ignoring the parts where I actualy agree with your oppinions (tho it's not stated directly). Thanks for the usual EvE-O forum discussion :-) It turned out exactly as I expected it to do ... --- SIG --- CSM: your support is needed !
Hugh Ruka Exploratio et Industria Morispatia	Posted - 2008.08.11 16:02:00 - [12] Originally by: Cpt Branko Originally by: Hugh Ruka Branko and Maximillian, you are picking only on those parts of my posts that suit your argument and ignoring the parts where I actualy agree with your oppinions (tho it's not stated directly). Thanks for the usual EvE-O forum discussion :-) It turned out exactly as I expected it to do ... Well, you're ignoring all the arguments and just bleating how high-sec must keep high rewards even if they outshine low-sec (therefore don't give anyone rational a reason to go there aside researching BPOs at posses/etc, or pure ISK wasting in FW) and make you lack any incentive to go to 0.0 for profits (since high-sec profits are good enough to not warrant the extra risk). This discussion turned out exactly as I expected it to do... I only said there is no fix for lowsec. No matter how profitable you make it, it has more risks than 0.0 and less options for self defense. I never said highsec should be kept as profitable as it is. I just told you what will happen when you nerf highsec too much. You chose to ignore that, your loss. btw, there is not lack of incentive to go 0.0 for me, I just don't have the RL resources for that. Which 0.0 alliance will accept a 3 man corp with little online time? We'd be kicked out 2 weeks after joining. Highsec for now gives me all I expect from a game. Instant action where I can relax a bit without constantly watching my back. --- SIG --- CSM: your support is needed !
Hugh Ruka Exploratio et Industria Morispatia	Posted - 2008.08.12 06:58:00 - [13] Originally by: Doctor Hourai Originally by: VicturusTeSaluto What a festival of ignorance. I have not seen so many clueless, fruity carebears in my entire eve career. Originally by: Hugh Ruka killing evrything that jumps through a gate is not piracy. Piracy by definition has economic(sp?) motives behind. that includes making sure the target is worth the ammo you are wasting. every carebear would be ok if lowsec only had proper wars and proper piracy. it's the senseless PKing that's the problem. What the **ing ** is PKing? peacekeeping? podkilling? You are stupid if you lose a pod in low sec. lol. There is no way that you can determine whether a target is worth killing. Even if you wanted to ship/cargo scan people there is no way that you could scan every single one and it is quite likely that they would then be alerted to something unusual going on. There is just no way to determine if a target will be profitable without killing or ransoming them. It would also be pretty stupid to leave someone right there next to you so they can cyno in their friend's cap fleet. You and your ilk are just clueless. Sit down, and listen to the adults(Bellum, Branko, et al.) HAHAHA yes this moron again. No PKing is a term derived from Runescape (run, escape) meaning player killing. idiots and 5 year olds play runescape. Don't be an idiot. PKing is as old as the first MUDs that allowed PvP. It became known more in UO. Seems you guys don't play games that long ... It's actualy the term predating PvP ... it has a negative meaning, because at that times, killing another player was considered against the rules of the game. --- SIG --- CSM: your support is needed !
Hugh Ruka Exploratio et Industria Morispatia	Posted - 2008.08.12 06:59:00 - [14] Originally by: Synapse Archae Originally by: Hugh Ruka Originally by: Furb Killer What i really like to know, there seems to be two opinions here: Eve is going to die/suck because people cant escape from blobs. In other words: Nanos cant escape when jumping into a larger fleet. Eve is going to die/suck because people can escape non consensual combat. In other words: Ships can escape when jumping into a larger fleet (or at least when they are outgunned). I like to know which one exactly is the reason eve is going to die/suck. /thread and sig material If you can get it through your head, try both: Eve is going to die/suck because no one can escape from blobs. Eve is going to die/suck because everyone can escape from 1v1. Should be somewhat reversed if you want a fun game. you mean: Eve is going to die/suck because everyone can escape from blobs. Eve is going to die/suck because no one can escape from 1v1. that has no logic as well ... --- SIG --- CSM: your support is needed !
Hugh Ruka Exploratio et Industria Morispatia	Posted - 2008.08.12 10:11:00 - [15] Originally by: murder one Originally by: Hugh Ruka Originally by: Synapse Archae Originally by: Hugh Ruka Originally by: Furb Killer What i really like to know, there seems to be two opinions here: Eve is going to die/suck because people cant escape from blobs. In other words: Nanos cant escape when jumping into a larger fleet. Eve is going to die/suck because people can escape non consensual combat. In other words: Ships can escape when jumping into a larger fleet (or at least when they are outgunned). I like to know which one exactly is the reason eve is going to die/suck. /thread and sig material If you can get it through your head, try both: Eve is going to die/suck because no one can escape from blobs. Eve is going to die/suck because everyone can escape from 1v1. Should be somewhat reversed if you want a fun game. you mean: Eve is going to die/suck because everyone can escape from blobs. Eve is going to die/suck because no one can escape from 1v1. that has no logic as well ... What? Syn had it right the first time. What are you talking about? Don't be obtuse. ok now you got me totaly confused ... --- SIG --- CSM: your support is needed !
Hugh Ruka Exploratio et Industria Morispatia	Posted - 2008.08.12 11:42:00 - [16] Originally by: murder one Originally by: Hugh Ruka ok now you got me totaly confused ... The upcoming changes reduce solo PVP chances of success, and therefor mandate the need for larger groups of players in order to attack single targets and complete the kill, thereby increasing the number of blobs and reducing the number of solo players. Both are bad. Are we still talking about an MMO? You make it sound like if player cooperation is a bad thing. Ok granted blobs are not fun. But since this game facilitates a straight forward increase in applied DPS with increased number of participants, there is nothing you can do about it. And to break this linearity, you need to play a different game. Anyway you did not understand my post :-) I was asking about the part where he said it should be actualy a bit reversed. So I reversed his statmement and you replied I am an idiot. So when his original is not true and my reversed statement is not true, what then do you want ? --- SIG --- CSM: your support is needed !

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