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Rapier , Curse, vagabond etc. after the nano nerf ???

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Holy Lowlander Aurora Acclivitous Paxton Federation	Posted - 2008.08.11 11:39:00 - [1] Well ... what are people suposed to do with these ships after the nano nerf ? The rapier for instance. It has 4 highslots , 6 medslots and 4 lowslots. It needs 2x medslot for Webs so that leaves 4 medslot and 4 lowslot. A microwarpdrive is advisable as its nice to get in range , get out of range and escape from gatecamps when you get decloaked .... it also needs a warp disruptor .... So that leaves 2 medslots ... so its either amor tanking with 4 lowslots or shield tanking with 2 medslots ..... The curse is more or less the same story. 6 medslots , 4 lowslots . It needs a medslot for mwd , disruptor and cap injector.... Tracking disruptors are nice as well and they work best if you fit more of them . So I'd fit 2x tracking disruptor as well . SO that means shield tanking with 1 medslot or amor tanking with 4 lowslots .... ooh and think I forgot to mention you'd have some sirious fitting problems on both the rapier and the curse , if you did decide to fit a tank .... I don't think I'll have to explain why the vagabond will be crap after the nano nerf ..... And there are more t2 cruisers that have similar problems ... Ehhh ... so what are these ships suposed to do to survive after the nano nerf ? Stay docked ??? Not whining , just wondering . I'd hate to see a bunch of great ships unused because they just die in a few volleys ..... ---- there's an evil monkey behind you !!
Steve Hawkings	Posted - 2008.08.11 11:42:00 - [2] They will still be as much use as they are now, unless you listen to all the whiners, Fast ships will still be fast and still need webs to catch them.
Franga NQX Innovations	Posted - 2008.08.11 11:45:00 - [3] What I like about the points you make is that they haven't been brought up before. Everything in your post is highly original and has never, ever, ever, ever been considered by anyone else. Amazing isn't it? In a 'comments' thread on the changes mentioned in Nohz's dev-blog the stretched for well over 130 pages - not a single one of those posters considered the 3 ships you mentioned here. Not one. Oh, wait ... Originally by: Rachel Vend ... with 100% reliability in most cases ...
sg3s Battlestars GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.08.11 11:47:00 - [4] Originally by: Holy Lowlander Well ... what are people suposed to do with these ships after the nano nerf ? The rapier for instance. It has 4 highslots , 6 medslots and 4 lowslots. It needs 2x medslot for Webs so that leaves 4 medslot and 4 lowslot. A microwarpdrive is advisable as its nice to get in range , get out of range and escape from gatecamps when you get decloaked .... it also needs a warp disruptor .... So that leaves 2 medslots ... so its either amor tanking with 4 lowslots or shield tanking with 2 medslots ..... The curse is more or less the same story. 6 medslots , 4 lowslots . It needs a medslot for mwd , disruptor and cap injector.... Tracking disruptors are nice as well and they work best if you fit more of them . So I'd fit 2x tracking disruptor as well . SO that means shield tanking with 1 medslot or amor tanking with 4 lowslots .... ooh and think I forgot to mention you'd have some sirious fitting problems on both the rapier and the curse , if you did decide to fit a tank .... I don't think I'll have to explain why the vagabond will be crap after the nano nerf ..... And there are more t2 cruisers that have similar problems ... Ehhh ... so what are these ships suposed to do to survive after the nano nerf ? Stay docked ??? Not whining , just wondering . I'd hate to see a bunch of great ships unused because they just die in a few volleys ..... Well a nano rapier can be usefull but is more usefull when you buffer tank it to an extend or even some hybrid, but since webs are getting nerfed they will probably become more or less worthless yeah. Then there is the curse of which I know little other than that it will not be effected as much as the other two ships in the topic here. The vagabond will feel pain, it's speed will be cut down, and with that it's survivability, since that is largely dependant on speed. It will still do the same damage etc, but will be very prone to snipers and dps in general. Originally by: Tarminic Because even when EVE sucks, it sucks less than every other MMO out there.
Steve Hawkings	Posted - 2008.08.11 11:49:00 - [5] Originally by: sg3s Originally by: Holy Lowlander Well ... what are people suposed to do with these ships after the nano nerf ? The rapier for instance. It has 4 highslots , 6 medslots and 4 lowslots. It needs 2x medslot for Webs so that leaves 4 medslot and 4 lowslot. A microwarpdrive is advisable as its nice to get in range , get out of range and escape from gatecamps when you get decloaked .... it also needs a warp disruptor .... So that leaves 2 medslots ... so its either amor tanking with 4 lowslots or shield tanking with 2 medslots ..... The curse is more or less the same story. 6 medslots , 4 lowslots . It needs a medslot for mwd , disruptor and cap injector.... Tracking disruptors are nice as well and they work best if you fit more of them . So I'd fit 2x tracking disruptor as well . SO that means shield tanking with 1 medslot or amor tanking with 4 lowslots .... ooh and think I forgot to mention you'd have some sirious fitting problems on both the rapier and the curse , if you did decide to fit a tank .... I don't think I'll have to explain why the vagabond will be crap after the nano nerf ..... And there are more t2 cruisers that have similar problems ... Ehhh ... so what are these ships suposed to do to survive after the nano nerf ? Stay docked ??? Not whining , just wondering . I'd hate to see a bunch of great ships unused because they just die in a few volleys ..... Well a nano rapier can be usefull but is more usefull when you buffer tank it to an extend or even some hybrid, but since webs are getting nerfed they will probably become more or less worthless yeah. Then there is the curse of which I know little other than that it will not be effected as much as the other two ships in the topic here. The vagabond will feel pain, it's speed will be cut down, and with that it's survivability, since that is largely dependant on speed. It will still do the same damage etc, but will be very prone to snipers and dps in general. Go to the test server goon, before you try to write a comment.
Prof Patpending Warp badgers with guns	Posted - 2008.08.11 12:24:00 - [6] Originally by: Steve Hawkings Go to the test server goon, before you try to write a comment. And you are? Anyway I hear all those nano ships refine nicely BWAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Holy Lowlander Aurora Acclivitous Paxton Federation	Posted - 2008.08.11 12:56:00 - [7] Originally by: Franga What I like about the points you make is that they haven't been brought up before. Everything in your post is highly original and has never, ever, ever, ever been considered by anyone else. Amazing isn't it? In a 'comments' thread on the changes mentioned in Nohz's dev-blog the stretched for well over 130 pages - not a single one of those posters considered the 3 ships you mentioned here. Not one. Oh, wait ... Well some people don't like reading 130 pages of tekst .... and thus make their own post here.... and get about the same information , but in far less time ---- there's an evil monkey behind you !!
Riho Gallente Mercenary Forces	Posted - 2008.08.11 13:12:00 - [8] vagabond will be fine curse will be fine rapier will need abit of help in the webs department like give them a bonus so the webs will be like now on that ship ---------------------------------- Fighting for Minmatar o7 Yes... this is my main. Extreme Troll Slayer...
Matrixcvd Caldari Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.08.11 13:21:00 - [9] drake harbinger hurricane everything else is useless post nerf
Helios Hyperion Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2008.08.11 13:27:00 - [10] that's not true, the vagabond will do the same thing it has always done. webs will be nearly just as effective as they are now.. as speed itself is being cut down by approx 50%/60% for the speedy ships, all that will be needed is one or two webs to make it hitable, scramable, and flimsy. rapier will work fine, but no nano :( curse.. never even needed nano to kick ass. just give it a wittle buffer and let it do it's job. with heat it'll hold range over any other recon ship.. or battleship.
Havohej The Defias Brotherhood	Posted - 2008.08.11 14:35:00 - [11] Originally by: Franga What I like about the points you make is that they haven't been brought up before. Everything in your post is highly original and has never, ever, ever, ever been considered by anyone else. What I like about your the points you make is that they haven't been brought up before. Everything in your post is highly original and nobody has ever, ever, ever flamed anyone for posting an idea that someone else has already posted. Ever. Your originality and cleverness in being the first person to post a flame like this, which has never been posted before, is amazing. Seriously, though, if you don't like an OP, don't post in the thread... go dig through the 130 page thread you endorse, gtfo of this one. Originally by: CCP Explorer You can still steal their stuff.
AstroPhobic Minmatar	Posted - 2008.08.11 14:46:00 - [12] Originally by: Riho vagabond will be fine curse will be fine rapier will need abit of help in the webs department Actually. The curse and rapier will be fine. (certainly not as dominant) but the vagabond will be useless. What the hell role do you think it will play? Heavy tackler is certainly no longer needed with a MSE/Web/9km stiletto. __________________________________________ Join channel "Salvage Minmatar" for minmatar fixing solutions and OT discussion. Oh hell, it's all offtopic.
Helios Hyperion Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2008.08.11 15:05:00 - [13] vaga will still do exactly what it does. it'll just need more support. get it in a nice hit and run gang with the right command ship
AstroPhobic Minmatar	Posted - 2008.08.11 15:18:00 - [14] Originally by: Helios Hyperion vaga will still do exactly what it does. it'll just need more support. get it in a nice hit and run gang with the right command ship No. It's not fast enough to outrun a pair of inties which will lock it down easily, regardless of a medium neut and set of light drones. This hit + run playstyle... it's gone now. Thank CCP. __________________________________________ Join channel "Salvage Minmatar" for minmatar fixing solutions and OT discussion. Oh hell, it's all offtopic.
Boz Well Minmatar	Posted - 2008.08.11 15:22:00 - [15] Originally by: AstroPhobic Originally by: Helios Hyperion vaga will still do exactly what it does. it'll just need more support. get it in a nice hit and run gang with the right command ship No. It's not fast enough to outrun a pair of inties which will lock it down easily, regardless of a medium neut and set of light drones. This hit + run playstyle... it's gone now. Thank CCP. Such a negative nancy Astro! It's still the fastest cruiser, and did I mention capless weapons? Besides, the average player these days has a full HG snake set and a t2 fit Vaga, so they should still go over 3k, amirite?
AstroPhobic Minmatar	Posted - 2008.08.11 15:24:00 - [16] No special named mods etc... __________________________________________ Join channel "Salvage Minmatar" for minmatar fixing solutions and OT discussion. Oh hell, it's all offtopic.
Boz Well Minmatar	Posted - 2008.08.11 15:25:00 - [17] Just go with an afterburner. What could go wrong?
Helios Hyperion Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2008.08.11 15:26:00 - [18] but astro, i think it will just go to show who the real vaga pilots are. two inties- neut one, gank one... if their chasing you they'll die faster. overheat and escape. anyone who still has snakes(lol at everyone) could hit 5100m/s with gang boost before heat.. as fast as your average ceptor pilot.. how often will you face the exceptional pilots?
AstroPhobic Minmatar	Posted - 2008.08.11 15:26:00 - [19] Originally by: Boz Well Just go with an afterburner. What could go wrong? Other than dieing to a punisher? __________________________________________ Join channel "Salvage Minmatar" for minmatar fixing solutions and OT discussion. Oh hell, it's all offtopic.
Helios Hyperion Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2008.08.11 15:27:00 - [20] 4200m/s ish without gang boost.. ain't that bad eh?
Boz Well Minmatar	Posted - 2008.08.11 15:28:00 - [21] Originally by: AstroPhobic Originally by: Boz Well Just go with an afterburner. What could go wrong? Other than dieing to a punisher? Well, sure, there's that. But... capless!
AstroPhobic Minmatar	Posted - 2008.08.11 15:28:00 - [22] Originally by: Helios Hyperion but astro, i think it will just go to show who the real vaga pilots are. You mean the everyday type with a full snake set and t2 aux rigs? Quote: two inties- neut one, gank one... if their chasing you they'll die faster. You dont understand that the transversal ISNT low because they're a LOT faster than you. Quote: overheat and escape. anyone who still has snakes(lol at everyone) could hit 5100m/s with gang boost before heat.. as fast as your average ceptor pilot.. how often will you face the exceptional pilots? Is that before or after the reactivation delay of your MWD? Before or after the inties overheat THEIR mwd? Before or after they kill off your drones? __________________________________________ Join channel "Salvage Minmatar" for minmatar fixing solutions and OT discussion. Oh hell, it's all offtopic.
Holy Lowlander Aurora Acclivitous Paxton Federation	Posted - 2008.08.11 15:35:00 - [23] Originally by: Riho vagabond will be fine curse will be fine rapier will need abit of help in the webs department like give them a bonus so the webs will be like now on that ship well how are you suposed to fit a curse then ? Shield buffer , DCU and just still 'nano' but not to tank but just to stay away from big trouble/certain death ? ---- there's an evil monkey behind you !!
Helios Hyperion Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2008.08.11 15:35:00 - [24] so is it 2 exceptional pilots? 1 in a stiletto, 1 in a ranis? both with full gang boost, max skills, full hg snakes? sounds like a hell of a tag team.. i'll fly with you.. lets go kill some vagas! what if the vaga is running directly away from ur tag-team-of-awesome? what if the vaga fits a webifier? with gang boost and heat it webs out to 18km? or a domi web 27km.. or... wait.. right now.. two pimped out intys... will lock down a vaga... :D
AstroPhobic Minmatar	Posted - 2008.08.11 15:37:00 - [25] Originally by: Helios Hyperion so is it 2 exceptional pilots? 1 in a stiletto, 1 in a ranis? both with full gang boost, max skills, full hg snakes? sounds like a hell of a tag team.. i'll fly with you.. lets go kill some vagas! what if the vaga is running directly away from ur tag-team-of-awesome? what if the vaga fits a webifier? with gang boost and heat it webs out to 18km? or a domi web 27km.. or... wait.. right now.. two pimped out intys... will lock down a vaga... :D No, 2 ordinary inties with some "clue" will take down any vaga postpatch. __________________________________________ Join channel "Salvage Minmatar" for minmatar fixing solutions and OT discussion. Oh hell, it's all offtopic.
Helios Hyperion Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2008.08.11 15:39:00 - [26] well.. still sounds like your pickin' the wrong fight. think about what the vaga will still be able to accomplish
Captator Universal Securities	Posted - 2008.08.11 15:39:00 - [27] I don't understand the argument that speed is blanket nerfed in all forms, so because they are still proportionally faster than the other ships, the nanoed ships will still work as they do now. Relative speed to the target ship has never really been the main issue, it is speed relative to orbit relative to tracking, and speed relative to missile exp velocity that have been the 2 factors that determine the minimum nano operating speed (for cruisers this is 3k). I haven't come up with a reason to fly my curse, as I cannot build a decent solo fit (Riho HALP! ) and my fleet fit is basically a glorified arbitrator with a little more HP and an ability to neut down support. Rapier, those who fit it with arties no MWD and used it for surprise ganks (yes there are people who do that), lose their effectiveness due to webs no longer pinning stuff down effectively enough for the arties to hit reliably (and you need them to), probing/nano rapier fits are for a large part unaffected, as you spend most of your time with MWD off, and your speed is primarily for dictating range, and your shield resists are nice enough that a few extenders gives you a good buffer. Similarly with the vagabond (although the reactivation delay screws that up). The curse however doesn't have grid after neuts for lots of extenders, it doesn't have balanced, rounded shield resists (massive em/therm hole), and for these reasons you need to be able to use longer duration/constant high speed to mitigate damage. My setup runs longer than it does on TQ on SiSi, but at 1/2 the speed, so gets torn apart by nearly everything I have flown it against so far. weekly rant over
AstroPhobic Minmatar	Posted - 2008.08.11 15:41:00 - [28] Originally by: Helios Hyperion well.. still sounds like your pickin' the wrong fight. think about what the vaga will still be able to accomplish Dunno. Self Destruct takes 120 seconds for every ship. __________________________________________ Join channel "Salvage Minmatar" for minmatar fixing solutions and OT discussion. Oh hell, it's all offtopic.
Helios Hyperion Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2008.08.11 15:48:00 - [29] twin webs +1 or 2 target painters... + slower ships in general= very effective sounding gank rapier to me.. without speeds of 13km/s + there is no longer any need for the uberpwnage web.
Bon Mot Princeps Corp T e r c i o s	Posted - 2008.08.11 15:49:00 - [30] The Rapiers will be fine. You just need to think twice about the fitting, but they will still hold-down anything, and still be usefull. Maybe a little bit easier to kill, but that is all. The rest only CCP knows, until I have not seen the real speed I can go with a vaga I will not say what I will do with them. I always die with my curses, so I don't care, I don't want to die again
OrcishMonkey Caldari Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Associates	Posted - 2008.08.11 16:45:00 - [31] Look at it this way the rapier gained an extra mid slot, as its now suicide to take one into 24km as anything and everything will hit it going 2km/s.
Holy Lowlander Aurora Acclivitous Paxton Federation	Posted - 2008.08.11 16:54:00 - [32] well we could always resort to triple web rapiers after the nano nerf ... :P ---- there's an evil monkey behind you !!
Guillame Herschel Gallente Buffalo Soldiers	Posted - 2008.08.11 22:56:00 - [33] Originally by: Holy Lowlander so its either amor tanking with 4 lowslots or shield tanking with 2 medslots ..... Ring.. Ring... Clue Phone. It's for you. "Hello, Holy Lowlander? I just wanted to tell you that what you said in your post, that's how the Rapier is now. TTFN." *-- The Theorem Theorem: If If, Then Then* --**

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