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FraNZina	Posted - 2008.08.12 11:57:00 - [1] Hey boys, First : I'm sad, why? because I ve lost too much time training things which got nerfed. But you don't have to care about that. The point is that now, Minmatars don't have any ship valuable. Don't you agree with me? Let's check: Muninn: boring Recon : stasis nerf :) Vagas : no comments needed Tempest: no armor tank, no shield tank, sniping BS? Maelstrom: maybe? Ok, we have the Hurricane, hurray\o/ , and what s next? I've trained these Recon and HAS, now they will be quite useless (but it s not the purpose of the topic to discuss if it will be or not), and now, what will be the next ship to train for me? Heavy interdictor? ok so i shall train shield tank too, you see what i mean..? Minmatar post patch = Even more time lost... So please tell me, what will be the Curse, Eagle, Zealot, Ishtar, Drake, Abso 's Minny ship? Just give some idea please, no need to get angry
Xephys	Posted - 2008.08.12 12:02:00 - [2] Broadsword.
whisk The Movement	Posted - 2008.08.12 12:02:00 - [3] whats wrong with tempest? Adapt or Die
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Eve Defence Force	Posted - 2008.08.12 12:07:00 - [4] Originally by: FraNZina Hey boys, First : I'm sad, why? because I ve lost too much time training things which got nerfed. But you don't have to care about that. The point is that now, Minmatars don't have any ship valuable. Don't you agree with me? Let's check: Muninn: boring Recon : stasis nerf :) Vagas : no comments needed Tempest: no armor tank, no shield tank, sniping BS? Maelstrom: maybe? Ok, we have the Hurricane, hurray\o/ , and what s next? I've trained these Recon and HAS, now they will be quite useless (but it s not the purpose of the topic to discuss if it will be or not), and now, what will be the next ship to train for me? Heavy interdictor? ok so i shall train shield tank too, you see what i mean..? Minmatar post patch = Even more time lost... So please tell me, what will be the Curse, Eagle, Zealot, Ishtar, Drake, Abso 's Minny ship? Just give some idea please, no need to get angry You fail. Muninn will do just fine. Rapiers will still be used. Vagas will still remain heavy tacklers now that inties are more vunerable Tempest will still be flown by alot of minmatar pilots How about this? Just fly something you LIKE flying. ----------------------------------------- [Video] Support Barrage
FraNZina	Posted - 2008.08.12 12:18:00 - [5] Edited by: FraNZina on 12/08/2008 12:25:10 In fact you're right Lyria... it s always cool to fly what we like.. but I ve enjoyed Speed tank very much... And I'm sad about us, Minny pilots, who have lost so much time training speed tank... It was the Minmatar's way of life.. and now we don't have anything left: Missiles? Caldari Armor tank? Amarr Shield tank? Caldari ECM? Caldari DPS? Who ye want but not Minny Speed? useless EW? We ve got the painters YES! the only EW wich isn't used ^^ You see what i mean? Minmatar is now the bastard race... versatility they call this.. which means can do everything.. but is not good at it. And i forgot: If you have noticable fit for the post nerf patch nano ships, i ll appreciate to know them.
BiggestT Caldari Space Oddysey Pupule 'Ohana	Posted - 2008.08.12 12:30:00 - [6] Originally by: FraNZina In fact you're right Lyria... it s always cool to fly what we like.. but I ve enjoyed Speed tank very much... And I'm sad about us, Minny pilots, who have lost so much time training speed tank... It was the Minmatar's way of life.. and now we don't have anything left: Missiles? Caldari Armor tank? Amarr Shield tank? Caldari ECM? Caldari DPS? Who ye want but not Minny Speed? useless EW? We ve got the painters YES! the only EW wich isn't used ^^ You see what i mean? Minmatar is now the bastard race... versatility they call this.. which means can do everything.. but is not good at it. Well cladari has been the so-called "bastard race" for some time, many ppl were saying cal suck boo, never cross train cal etc etc. But Ive never looked back, i cldnt care less of a factions reputation. Now that its minmatars turn, take some advice from a caldari pilot. Dont listen to what ppl bitch on about really, every race can do just fine in pvp, just becasue they dont have "the best omgship" doesnt mean u wont be able to kick arse. E.G. A sleipner with an AB will be pretybadass and sure "but waaa an absolution is better at tanking blah" but who really cares, just fly it and ull love it. If you fly it post-patch, use it many times in many diff. scenarios, and still dont like it, then you can come back and complain. poudly annoying fc's since 2007* http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=828123 caldari drone boat enthusiast
Deadeye Devie Minmatar	Posted - 2008.08.12 12:42:00 - [7] Originally by: FraNZina You see what i mean? Minmatar is now the bastard race... versatility they call this.. which means can do everything.. but is not good at it. And i forgot: If you have noticable fit for the post nerf patch nano ships, i ll appreciate to know them. minmatar were and are the tribal race, never realy technologically advanced, were always gonna be behind all other races...this is what makes us such a fun and challenging race. Besides, your forgetting that 2 of our coolest ships have just got a boost...the jag and wolf!! expect to see small pack gangs of wolves, rifters, cheetahs, jags and hyenas screwing over people....they are where minnie playing will be fun! Whoever appeals to the law against his fellow man is either a fool or a coward. Whoever cannot take care of themself without that law is both.
FraNZina	Posted - 2008.08.12 12:43:00 - [8] Haha alright, See ya in 1 month ! :))
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Eve Defence Force	Posted - 2008.08.12 12:43:00 - [9] Originally by: FraNZina And I'm sad about us, Minny pilots, who have lost so much time training speed tank... It was the Minmatar's way of life.. and now we don't have anything left: I see what you're saying but speed tanking is something pretty much all races had trained, maybe except caldari. Thing is that speed tanking belongs to frigs sized ships and not a race. Yes one of your racial perks IS speed but it does not mean that it should be a viable tanking tactic for all ship classes of your race. You like speed? Well vaga will still be fast and still be used and more then ever be needed as a heavy tackler (with frigs becoming less imba for tackling and more vunerable). Webbers and painters will be used, dont worry. ----------------------------------------- [Video] Support Barrage
Deadeye Devie Minmatar	Posted - 2008.08.12 12:47:00 - [10] ive had AF 5, eas 4 intie 4 and all figs for a while now....just finishing caldari...and i have to say, appart from ishkur, minnie is my fave...and great fun in a gang of em. ...now with the changes coming in a pack of AB AFs backed up by other frigs for fast hit n run tactics is not waaaaay more viable.....hooray for the death of fast big ships!!!! anything criser size up should never move fast...its just rediculous, and im glad web is no longer an 'iwin' button!!! strap some guns on, slap on an AB and OD or 2, and get a group of friends out to some low sec/no sec system and go wandering like a pack....it will be fun. Whoever appeals to the law against his fellow man is either a fool or a coward. Whoever cannot take care of themself without that law is both.
Dalek Commander	Posted - 2008.08.12 12:50:00 - [11] Train amarr. Your gunnery, and armor skills will carry over. In 30 days you'll be in amarr battleships, and T2 medium guns with only a few weeks to go till T2 large.
Cpt Branko Surge. NIght's Dawn	Posted - 2008.08.12 12:55:00 - [12] Edited by: Cpt Branko on 12/08/2008 12:55:16 Originally by: Lyria Skydancer I see what you're saying but speed tanking is something pretty much all races had trained, maybe except caldari. There is no reason, or rather, no excuse for anyone (and even Caldari) not training up navigation skills. In fact, most Caldari ships are more agile then Minmatar, on TQ. A Drake, for instance, is just as agile as a Hurricane (and people claim it's slow and heavy, it's most likely their navigation skills). People claiming navigation skills are minmatar-specific are being stupid. Navigation skills are for everyone, everwhere, and will still be useful for all pilots as long as things like closing range, burning back/away from gates, warping as quickly as possible, running away and such are important As for the whole 'speed-taking belongs to small ships', I tend to agree. However, I find that things like the MWD reactivation delay are really bogus, as they prevent kiting to mantain range, which is a serious hit to many ships relying on this, particularly Minmatar. Also, Munnin sucks. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Deadeye Devie Minmatar	Posted - 2008.08.12 13:03:00 - [13] TBH nav skills are important to ANY ship for almost any reason....for both getting away and general manouvering. they lower cap use of modules and help with the movement of the ship however slow or fast they are. im glad they have addressed the madness of big ships going faster than small ships, and i can only hope this makes for more interesting mixes of ships...from small to large, across the entire lineup of each race, being used in gangs, and not just the few heavy ones that were unbalanced and giving an edge over the craft that was supposed to do this job, or even other similar ships that were less used since the inabillity to unbalance them with these modules. you havent lost time training them, they still will reward your fitting and your ship....its just you will now need to work out new tactics and use a wider range of ships in a gang. Whoever appeals to the law against his fellow man is either a fool or a coward. Whoever cannot take care of themself without that law is both.
Amandin Adouin Minmatar	Posted - 2008.08.12 13:04:00 - [14] Edited by: Amandin Adouin on 12/08/2008 13:05:47 Hey Branko, I can see why people say Minmatar ships have the clutch on speed tanking. Other races use can it, and they certainly need to train up their navigation skills... but that said, Minnie ships rely on speed tanking the most of any of the races, wouldn't you say? It certainly appears as if they're getting hit the hardest by this nerf because of their reliance on said tactic. Nevermind I'm tired . Didn't read all of this post.
FraNZina	Posted - 2008.08.12 13:08:00 - [15] Edited by: FraNZina on 12/08/2008 13:09:07 Yes... it's like saying : "everyone should train drones as almost every ship has a drone bay"... But if Drones will a day be nerfed... wouldn't Gallente be the first to be hit? Simply because they have ships which have bonuses on them... same for the Minmatar ones in my opinion..
Cpt Branko Surge. NIght's Dawn	Posted - 2008.08.12 13:13:00 - [16] Originally by: FraNZina Edited by: FraNZina on 12/08/2008 13:09:07 Yes... it's like saying : "everyone should train drones as almost every ship has a drone bay"... But if Drones will a day be nerfed... wouldn't Gallente be the first to be hit? Simply because they have ships which have bonuses on them... same for the Minmatar ones in my opinion.. Well, Drone Interfacing V is on the skill plan for my Minmatar ships, so... Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Burn Mac Minmatar Burning Steel Inc.	Posted - 2008.08.12 13:17:00 - [17] Is it possible to get a Stabber to be fast enough with AB to be able to dodge medium guns while hitting with dual 180 mm AC's? Like many ppl are planning to use AF's?
Cpt Branko Surge. NIght's Dawn	Posted - 2008.08.12 13:19:00 - [18] Edited by: Cpt Branko on 12/08/2008 13:20:00 Originally by: Burn Mac Is it possible to get a Stabber to be fast enough with AB to be able to dodge medium guns while hitting with dual 180 mm AC's? Like many ppl are planning to use AF's? Medium guns, no. Since tracking isn't an on/off thing, there is no magical speed where D180s track and blasters/etc don't; if D180s are hitting with any reasonable efficency, other short range medium guns are hitting for a bit less, but not nearly enough to make any practical difference on the outcome. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
FraNZina	Posted - 2008.08.12 13:22:00 - [19] In my opinion, Stabbers will be the next ship to use... If Vaga begins to be a tackler and nothing else, people should take a Stab instead. Simply because paying 100M for a tackling machine is insane...
Trojanman190 D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.08.12 13:57:00 - [20] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: FraNZina Hey boys, First : I'm sad, why? because I ve lost too much time training things which got nerfed. But you don't have to care about that. The point is that now, Minmatars don't have any ship valuable. Don't you agree with me? Let's check: Muninn: boring Recon : stasis nerf :) Vagas : no comments needed Tempest: no armor tank, no shield tank, sniping BS? Maelstrom: maybe? Ok, we have the Hurricane, hurray\o/ , and what s next? I've trained these Recon and HAS, now they will be quite useless (but it s not the purpose of the topic to discuss if it will be or not), and now, what will be the next ship to train for me? Heavy interdictor? ok so i shall train shield tank too, you see what i mean..? Minmatar post patch = Even more time lost... So please tell me, what will be the Curse, Eagle, Zealot, Ishtar, Drake, Abso 's Minny ship? Just give some idea please, no need to get angry You fail. Muninn will do just fine. Rapiers will still be used. Vagas will still remain heavy tacklers now that inties are more vunerable Tempest will still be flown by alot of minmatar pilots How about this? Just fly something you LIKE flying.
Drek Grapper Minmatar	Posted - 2008.08.12 15:31:00 - [21] Originally by: Trojanman190 Edited by: Trojanman190 on 12/08/2008 14:07:00 Originally by: Lyria Skydancer You fail. Seriously, was this needed? Muninn will do just fine. Rapiers will still be used. Vagas will still remain heavy tacklers now that inties are more vunerable Tempest will still be flown by alot of minmatar pilots How about this? And this? Just fly something you LIKE flying. Seriously this dude didn't do anything to you, so why come off so harsh to him? ....... Cos the Lyria is leet (and you do not know this??) ...flies all the Minni ships, no, .. wait.... 'Tis a long fall from atop that horse my friend... Watch you don't smack your big head too hard on the way down k? --------- If the Thorax was a car it would look like this
Boz Well Minmatar	Posted - 2008.08.12 16:20:00 - [22] Quote: Tempest will be flown by three types of pilots. 1. Noobs who have just started the game. 2. Extremely hopeful pilots looking for the same boost that the amar got. 3. People yet to finish training another race. (like me) You can find people that fly any piece of crap ship in this game. That doesn't really say much about balance. I doubt you'd tell me Lyria that the Pilgrim is fine (we'll have to see how it is post-patch though), but people still fly them. People still fly black ops, but most would agree they aren't that worthwhile in their current state. I think Troj's list sums it up well, except you should forget the people that have played for a while but are still clueless, lol. I had an ex-corpmate (I left, although the two things aren't completely related ;p) tell me the other day that tempest was awesome because of the omgcapless weapons and alpha strike. I don't really know whether people are living in the past, or just clueless, but regardless, there are lots of clueless people out there that have been playing for quite a while. Quote: Cos the Lyria is leet (and you do not know this??) ...flies all the Minni ships, no, .. wait.... 'Tis a long fall from atop that horse my friend... Watch you don't smack your big head too hard on the way down k? Lulz.
Feilamya Minmatar Pelennor Swarm	Posted - 2008.08.12 16:31:00 - [23] Originally by: FraNZina So please tell me, what will be the Curse, Eagle, Zealot, Ishtar, Drake, Abso 's Minny ship? The Curse, Eagle, Zealot, Ishtar, Drake, Abso. This is not WoW where all races would have the same ships.
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Eve Defence Force	Posted - 2008.08.12 16:33:00 - [24] Edited by: Lyria Skydancer on 12/08/2008 16:35:32 Originally by: Trojanman190 Seriously this dude didn't do anything to you, so why come off so harsh to him? Mununn will do just fine, until you can train for one of the superior alternatives, like every other sniping hac in the game. It does it's job, can't deny that, but it does it poorly. Just because its the best sniping hac in the minmatar line does not mean its worth the isk to bother with. Rapiers will still be used but will be MUCH less effective. The web nerf means that interceptors can still power through their webs and shut down their mwd. As a recon, its going to be a slow ship that's often primaried and isn't overly effective. With 3 webs a bettlshipw ill still slow boat back tot he gate... bumps are going to be even more useful now. Wait more emphasis on the broken physics engine? I thought that's why they were nerfing speed and not boosting missiles. CCP fail right there. I really disagree with you on the vaga. It's extremely expensive and now is extremely vulnerable, I know that you are a zealot pilot and I know you fly it a lot and I'm telling you flat out that these two ships don't fly the same way at all. Pulsing the mwd while orbiting at 24km will be more dangerous for you, but vagabonds need to be much closer to actually inflict damage, with the mwd changes and the speed changes this ship will be suicide to fly. An expensive casket for your pod. If you want to tackle something use one of the assualt frigs (faster now, always thought this is what they were for) or one of the interceptors. The stilleto was built for tackling as it will still be able to orbit and point at 30km forever (4 mids means you get a cap booster, which is win.) Tempest will be flown by three types of pilots. 1. Noobs who have just started the game. 2. Extremely hopeful pilots looking for the same boost that the amar got. 3. People yet to finish training another race. (like me) It is simply not worth cross training for smaller performance gains. I know some people will cross train a year just to get that extra 5dps but in my eyes that is fail. Back when zealots were outclassed by muninns in everything I STILL flew my zealot. I didnt crosstrain. If I had, you'd know the result now. Wich is fail. All recons except falcons/rooks are going to get shafted by this nerf tbh (pilgrim already was). Welcome to the club and join the nerf-falcon club. Zealot and vaga are not the same role class. Zealot and muninn are comparable. Zealot is a support sniper and just because speed WAS broken doesnt mean it had that role in mind to begin with. With the nerf zealot is not going to be any heavy tackler at all. Vaga will still be. Uhm there are many pilots that only have one race trained with 15-20mill sp. Are they noobs? No. Do they fly once races BS well? Yes they do. Are there alot of them? Yes there are. The uber fotm multi race skilling character is not your standard character. They are very old and bored players or gtc powered ebay warriors. The normal player will still fly the battleship of its race and not go all over the place for THE best ship. Some of us pick a race and stick with it because we like the race. It will all be fine. There is too much emo here. ps. And yes I need to say "you fail at eve" alot because that was the great advice I got all these years before the amarr buffs when I tried discussing something (alot from leet minmatar pvpers). ----------------------------------------- [Video] Support Barrage
Amandin Adouin Minmatar	Posted - 2008.08.12 16:47:00 - [25] Edited by: Amandin Adouin on 12/08/2008 16:48:35 Wow Lyria, you impressed me with your reasonable and well thought out response. I was even beginning to think maybe I wouldn't make you my Amarri slave when we win the war. That is until you got to this: Originally by: Lyria Skydancer ps. And yes I need to say "you fail at eve" alot because that was the great advice I got all these years before the amarr buffs when I tried discussing something (alot from leet minmatar pvpers). You really should know by now that just because others are jerks you don't need to be :)
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2008.08.12 16:53:00 - [26] Cross-train, its the only way to be safe. --- Originally by: Roguehalo Can you nano Titans?
Amandin Adouin Minmatar	Posted - 2008.08.12 16:59:00 - [27] I think it all evens out to be the same thing, with the tide of nerfing and buffing. You can either crosstrain, purposefully diluting your character's skills somewhat to ensure that you have other options if your preferred race is nerfed; or you can spend all your points specializing in one race that will be op sometimes and well, suck, sometimes. I think it evens out.
Liang Nuren Perkone	Posted - 2008.08.12 17:04:00 - [28] Originally by: Trojanman190 Tempest will be flown by three types of pilots. 1. Noobs who have just started the game. 2. Extremely hopeful pilots looking for the same boost that the amar got. 3. People yet to finish training another race. (like me) 4. People who can't help but shout "Yarrr!" in local when they see the old ***** swaying in the breeze (me) -Liang -- I object to violence because when it appears to do good, the good is only temporary; the evil it does is permanent. -- Mahatma Gandhi
Amandin Adouin Minmatar	Posted - 2008.08.12 17:07:00 - [29] Edited by: Amandin Adouin on 12/08/2008 17:07:21 Quote: 4. People who can't help but shout "Yarrr!" in local when they see the old ***** swaying in the breeze (me) Me too .
S3dINSTBE Just Another Indy Corp	Posted - 2008.08.12 17:15:00 - [30] Originally by: Amandin Adouin Edited by: Amandin Adouin on 12/08/2008 16:48:35 Wow Lyria, you impressed me with your reasonable and well thought out response. I was even beginning to think maybe I wouldn't make you my Amarri slave when we win the war. That is until you got to this: Originally by: Lyria Skydancer ps. And yes I need to say "you fail at eve" alot because that was the great advice I got all these years before the amarr buffs when I tried discussing something (alot from leet minmatar pvpers). You really should know by now that just because others are jerks you don't need to be :) But dis is dee internetz, if you'z not a jerkzzz you'z ain't doin it rite. I've never had a problem being Caldari but then I've never done much PVP so what the hell do I know. I just make the best of what I CAN use to the best of it's (and my) ability.
Amandin Adouin Minmatar	Posted - 2008.08.12 17:16:00 - [31] Edited by: Amandin Adouin on 12/08/2008 17:16:36 Originally by: S3dINSTBE But dis is dee internetz, if you'z not a jerkzzz you'z ain't doin it rite. Oh I'm doing it just fine thank you very much :) Even though I can't quote.
Djerin Free-Space-Ranger Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2008.08.12 17:18:00 - [32] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer The uber fotm multi race skilling character is not your standard character. I think i do understand what you mean. But seriously, a little bit of cross-training is a good thing to do. Check the link in my sig to read what a very experienced player with a serious amount of skillpoints wrote about the issue. I fully endorse his statement. ---- Sarmaul's crosstrainorgtfo
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Eve Defence Force	Posted - 2008.08.12 17:23:00 - [33] Originally by: Amandin Adouin You really should know by now that just because others are jerks you don't need to be :) I choose to be because it amuses me on the forums. ----------------------------------------- [Video] Support Barrage
Amandin Adouin Minmatar	Posted - 2008.08.12 17:36:00 - [34] Edited by: Amandin Adouin on 12/08/2008 17:25:47 Originally by: Lyria Skydancer ps. And yes I need to say "you fail at eve" alot because that was the great advice I got all these years before the amarr buffs when I tried discussing something (alot from leet minmatar pvpers). Originally by: Lyria Skydancer I choose to because it amuses me Wait. Which one is it? I'm confused

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