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The postion of the Phoenix Alliance council on the war

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Bobby Wilson	Posted - 2004.06.02 23:59:00 - [1] I am posting this for the edification of corps currently at war with the Phoenix alliance, and those that are currently being begged, pressed, threatened, cajoled or lured into joining it PA's position continues to be that this is an immoral and unprovoked war being undertaken deliberately by JF and RKK. Since JF has opened their forums it simplifies things. Please read the entire chatlogs before they are removed or modified further by JF. JF plotted with RKK to start this war more than 3 weeks ago, and were looking for an excuse for it: Read it: http://www.jerichofraction.net/yabbse/index.php?board=1;action=display;threadid=443 They'd already got Evolution on board for attacking the Phoenix alliance 3 weeks before their current war declaration according to Galavet in that chatlog, and they were planning together how they could get the PA mad enough to attack them so they could get the rest of NAST and as many alliances as possible on their side. My fave so far is: "cast the bait wait for the bite" by Alexandra or possibly: "rest also knowing that we are working on the COD and FU to nullify the NAST, each person I have spoken to has "seen the light"" also by Alexandra to Galavet in the same convo nearly 3 weaks before the RKK sneak attack . RKK's animosity to the Phoenix alliance is evident as early as April:Also of note is this: http://www.newvenal.org/sharks/casusbelli.jpg One might also check this thread http://www.jerichofraction.net/yabbse/index.php?board=1;action=display;threadid=528 where JF made a deal with EV to permit limited closed space in territoy JF always insisted was free. Who knows if this deal still stands, but if it does it means part of the JF/RKK coalition is attacking us because they are against free space, and another part (EV) is attacking in order to ensure they can keep their limited closed space. So to clarify PA's position currently: 1. RKK and Jericho have manufactured this war, and have opened their own forums to show the proof (I'm sure they will drop them or edit them soon, if that occurs to them). 2. UNICOR was set up as a closed alliance and after negotiations by RKK and JF WITH EV they struck a deal to be a partly closed alliance, in open contradiction with Jf's espoused "100% free space principle" for the Vale and Tribute AND in violation of NAST. 3. Evolution and the PA have never gotten along. I doubt they took a ton of convincing to come attack us. I suspect we'll keep fighting and won't insult them or myself by saying anthing more about them. Thats about it. Most of the corps involved in attacking the Phoenix Alliance at the moment are victims of a massive manipulation. Most of the corps in the current hostilites are invited to make diplomatic contact (IF THEY WISH) to discuss ending hostilities if they feel they have been duped by RKK/Jericho. Please register an account and PM me here: http://www.newvenal.org/Forums/viewtopic.php?p=6876#6876 Once I've got a PM from you as a representative of your corp (more than one rep is fine of course as long as you can speak for your corp) we can provide in-game diplomatic contacts, or even board private-message contacts if you prefer the web to in-game comms. For corps who stay allied with JF, I'd recommend not saying anything in a convo you wouldn't want posted to their forums , as it looks like this is common practice for them. Otherwise, we are having a fun little war in game. Despite the ugliness seen on these forums, the in-game war has been pretty clean. There are a LOT of locked threads where JF has stated their piece repeatedly. I hope they will refrain from abusive posting in this thread. BW out (flame retardent on hand) P.S. As far as I am aware no olive branch will be handed to the two corporations Jericho and RKK. They worked to hard to have a war with us, so I doubt we will disappoint them. Originally by: Selim Cool, congrats. Oh, stupid idea by the way.
DedGuy	Posted - 2004.06.03 00:27:00 - [2] Bobby Wilson, you're as bad as Jade is on this, as far as I'm concerned you're both "masters" of spin and are currently vying for political support...but there is one thing that you really don't get. NEITHER SIDE IS GOING TO CHANGE ITS POSITION, SO ENOUGH ALREADY. Neither side will concede on the start of this war, so lets stop looking BACKWARDS and start looking FORWARDS. This is a game for godsake, and shouldn't be considered a popularity contest. Neither side is going to lose its supporters this late in the game, so enough with the old chatlogs and stupid propaganda that we've all seen hundreds of times before and that most people don't care about. I mean look at the forums for the past few days, this topic has been DONE TO DEATH. LET US SORT THIS OUT ON THE BATTLEFIELD and STOP WITH THE FORUM WHORING. I'm sick of this **. Rumors of my clones death are greatly exaggerated. But I am still INACTIVE Millennium** Elder
Ly'sol	Posted - 2004.06.03 00:34:00 - [3] No niether of them are masters of nothing. This he said she said is getting depressing becuase there is no new content. Also Bobby, logisticly our forums cant handle that much traffic at the moment. If you want a large number of people to view our public boards I recommend you mirror or host the content on your own site. This would personally be appriciated as it is interupting my business. -------------------------- Vist the Jericho Fraction Forums
Herophant	Posted - 2004.06.03 00:39:00 - [4] Bobby Wilson i read your posts and i laugh. How do you think people will fall for you simple lies? Tell me: What part of PA capturing RKK stations, atacking RKK, taxing tribute and other misconducts were a part of our master plan? You say we are editing our forum post. PROVE IT I SAY! Link to the "edited" posts and show us the screenshots you took from the old posts!
Presidio	Posted - 2004.06.03 00:39:00 - [5] Edited by: Presidio on 03/06/2004 00:42:50 Like I said before, it is really simple Jade has hated us ever since he got kicked out. I bet some of JSA corps now know why he got kicked out, if not it will only be a matter of time. I know Jade very well, I fougt for NVA when he was the leader. FU, COD and EV have always feared PA. What's sad is they took our willingness to be friends with them as our weakness, so they jumped on the bandwagon overestimating their power and they bit more than they can chew. I can sense that they now realise how big of a mistake they made, as they are paying the price for it daily. All this while the PA is having a blast. Priceless! - "Passivity is fatal to us. Our goal is to make the enemy passive." Mao Tse-tung
Bobby Wilson	Posted - 2004.06.03 00:41:00 - [6] Originally by: Ly'sol Also Bobby, logisticly our forums cant handle that much traffic at the moment. If you want a large number of people to view our public boards I recommend you mirror or host the content on your own site. This would personally be appriciated as it is interupting my business. Please contact Gafton, Darkcraft or Robeyone in game to make arrangements. We are very happy to do so and sorry the publicity is OOC disrupting your business. We can host it all I'm pretty sure. BW Originally by: Selim Cool, congrats. Oh, stupid idea by the way.
Ly'sol	Posted - 2004.06.03 00:43:00 - [7] Edited by: Ly'sol on 03/06/2004 00:45:22 What price my friend? So you have a long winded forum ***....we got plenty of those to...I really am not seeing much more than constant bickering at the moment trying to gain the moral highground. Another note on Bobby's original thread. Quote:** For corps who stay allied with JF, I'd recommend not saying anything in a convo you wouldn't want posted to their forums , as it looks like this is common practice for them. That is a beatiful piece of profaganda. What better than to turn your enemy on your enemy. Just be careful...that type of black propaganda works both ways. You should stick to white propaganda... And on the topic of our forum, Thanks...see if we cant make arrangements. -------------------------- Vist the Jericho Fraction Forums
Bobby Wilson	Posted - 2004.06.03 00:45:00 - [8] Originally by: Herophant Bobby Wilson i read your posts and i laugh. How do you think people will fall for you simple lies? Tell me: What part of PA capturing RKK stations, atacking RKK, taxing tribute and other misconducts were a part of our master plan? You say we are editing our forum post. PROVE IT I SAY! Link to the "edited" posts and show us the screenshots you took from the old posts! As soon as someone has mirrored you forums, they can read for themselves and make up their own minds about who is lying. As for proving what is edited (if anything) that again can't be done until we see what is made available to the mirroring person(s). Don't blame me though. Jade assumed we had full forum access, made your forums public for some bizarre reason and invited everyone to read for themselves. I simply agree with her and pointed to specific threads that show the plots of the past 3 weeks. BW Originally by: Selim Cool, congrats. Oh, stupid idea by the way.
Nafri	Posted - 2004.06.03 00:45:00 - [9] Originally by: Presidio Edited by: Presidio on 03/06/2004 00:42:50 Like I said before, it is really simple Jade has hated us ever since he got kicked out. I bet some of JSA corps now know why he got kicked out, if not it will only be a matter of time. I know Jade very well, I fougt for NVA when he was the leader. FU, COD and EV have always feared PA. What's sad is they took our willingness to be friends with them as our weakness, so they jumped on the bandwagon overestimating their power and they bit more than they can chew. I can sense that they now realise how big of a mistake they made, as they are paying the price for it daily. All this while the PA is having a blast. Priceless! EV fearing PA, sorry but your nothing compared to the military machine of the CA when m0o and ATUK were still inside. dont make any fame where no fame is Wanna fly with me?
Rizmordan Hillgotlieb	Posted - 2004.06.03 00:45:00 - [10] Edited by: Rizmordan Hillgotlieb on 03/06/2004 00:51:37 Thanks Bob - Do you really care what any other corps really think of the PA? If these logs are really so libelous and treacherous then the people of EVE can decide that for themselves. That is if they even really care. I really don't see how this constant back and forth with Jade is really helping your cause TBH. You guys MUST be desperate. That's the only reason I can think of. Only desperate times call for desperate measures. The latest PA smackposts have been chock full of desperate attacks and attempts at ego saving. I wish I had the patience to link them all. But hell you'd argue that grass is blue than sooner see it as green. Posting for Numbnutz
Bobby Wilson	Posted - 2004.06.03 00:51:00 - [11] Originally by: Rizmordan Hillgotlieb Thanks Bob - Do you really care what any other corps really think of the PA? We didn't start responding formally until we had 3 days of Jericho libel under our belts. It gets tired. Quote: If these logs are really so libelous and treacherous then the people of EVE can decide that for themselves. That is if they even really care. I agree Quote: I really don't see how this constant back and forth with Jade is really helping your cause TBH. Then talk to Jade. She's posted 5 for every one I have. She's been throwing in and out of character insults at me for 2 days straight, and continues although I've asked her to stop. I'll continue to post the PA's positions. JF wants me to stop, and I can understand why as your propaganda worked a lot better without formal, though out answers. JF stops propaganda, I'll stop responding to it. PERIOD. Quote: You guys MUST be desperate. That's the only reason I can think of. Only desperate times call for desperate measures. The latest PA smackposts have been chock full of desperate attacks and attempts at ego saving. I wish I had the patience to link them all. But hell if you'd argue that grass is blue than sooner see it as green. Get into the game. Ask your allies what systems they control. Ask them the last time they "pwned" a PA fleet. Then feel free to tell me who is desperate. IMHO Jade's been getting steadily shriller, nastier and more personally offensive for 36 hours. That's how she got when her side was losing vs. Biomass back when she was PR person for the NVA, so I kinda assume the same thing goes here. BW Originally by: Selim Cool, congrats. Oh, stupid idea by the way.
Ly'sol	Posted - 2004.06.03 00:56:00 - [12] you know JF will never engage in a blob fight. -------------------------- Vist the Jericho Fraction Forums
Panzer	Posted - 2004.06.03 00:59:00 - [13] Blah blah.. Can't you guys just kill each other
Bobby Wilson	Posted - 2004.06.03 01:00:00 - [14] This is all the official forum work I'm doing for the PA tonight. Whatever ridiculous stuff JF posts I'll look at in 16 hours. I'll try to ignore the insults and flaming. Meanwhile, JF please get your forums working or get some people to mirror it. We've already been asked and we're willing, give us the material and we'll mirror it. I'd like people reading the stuff you yourselve made public while I play some eve and get my beauty sleep. BW Originally by: Selim Cool, congrats. Oh, stupid idea by the way.
Rizmordan Hillgotlieb	Posted - 2004.06.03 01:13:00 - [15] I'm done Bob. I'm done with work so no more posting for today. But honestly I really am tired of posting on these forums. As I am sure many of you are. Posting for Numbnutz
Kalast Raven	Posted - 2004.06.03 01:56:00 - [16] Hey fellow PA members...why do we even bother making our points and proving the truth? Our enemies are not interested in petty truth or the reasons behind events, they are conspired to destroy and murder us all. Let's not trade words, but missiles. Death is the just reward they reap. ------- K. Raven
Fire Lotus	Posted - 2004.06.03 02:54:00 - [17] Originally by: Bobby Wilson PA's position continues to be that this is an immoral and unprovoked war being undertaken deliberately by JF and RKK. Since JF has opened their forums it simplifies things. Please read the entire chatlogs before they are removed or modified further by JF. Chatlogs don't exist. 3. Evolution and the PA have never gotten along. I doubt they took a ton of convincing to come attack us. I suspect we'll keep fighting and won't insult them or myself by saying anthing more about them. Gee, I wonder why? hmz Most of the corps involved in attacking the Phoenix Alliance at the moment are victims of a massive manipulation. So what's with the rest that haven't been "manipulated"? Could they be VICTIMS of PA's arrogance? Most of the corps in the current hostilites are invited to make diplomatic contact (IF THEY WISH) to discuss ending hostilities if they feel they have been duped by RKK/Jericho. Here ya go again. If you want to make amends, I think it's best that YOU contact the people you've crossed. Don't insult us with this propaganda. The only thing believable in this post is you header which is pretty. Maybe next time you feel like posting use the header and leave the page empty so we will have something to look at. For corps who stay allied with JF, I'd recommend not saying anything in a convo you wouldn't want posted to their forums, as it looks like this is common practice for them. I love JF/RKK BW out (flame retardent on hand) /emote Fire Lotus adds petrol to BW's Flame retardent P.S. As far as I am aware no olive branch will be handed to the two corporations Jericho and RKK. They worked to hard to have a war with us, so I doubt we will disappoint them. As far as I am aware JF and RKK won't be disappointed if you don't hand them the olive branch. So go stick it.. May the fleas of a thousand camels infest the crotch of the person that screws up your day and may thier arms be too short to scratch.
Bobby Wilson	Posted - 2004.06.03 08:51:00 - [18] Apparently some folks have tried to contact the PA through the local fleet commander. Please don't. He/she isn't always up on politics and is usually darned busy. As previously requested, please register an account and PM me here: http://www.newvenal.org/Forums/viewtopic.php?p=6876#6876 Once I've got a PM from you as a representative of your corp (more than one rep is fine of course as long as you can speak for your corp) we can provide in-game diplomatic contacts, or even board private-message contacts if you prefer the web to in-game comms. Since I had a long day feeding the trolls yesterday, I think today I'll ignore the top 10 of them. That'll make so a more pleasant day. BW Originally by: Selim Cool, congrats. Oh, stupid idea by the way.
DB Preacher	Posted - 2004.06.03 10:30:00 - [19] Edited by: DB Preacher on 03/06/2004 10:31:13 The war is in motion. We are on this side with our allies, you are on that side. This war will continue until all allies agree it is complete. We have explained our reasons in full on these forums and are now bored of the constant repition of questions coming from the PA camp. Once you are ready to surrender, come speak to us. Until then. We will see you on the field of battle. Good luck. dbp Current RKK Ranking: (CAL4) Soldier Drop by and say hi in Reikoku Forums.
Walking Contradiction	Posted - 2004.06.03 10:51:00 - [20] Let's not forget how the honourable PA hacked the JF forums by using someone else's account. GO PA GO!
DB Preacher	Posted - 2004.06.03 12:07:00 - [21] Edited by: DB Preacher on 03/06/2004 19:38:55 Immoral and unprovoked war? Over the last 3 months, the PA has: PA Pirating Activities 1. CDI members make a pirate corp 'because they were bored' and intended to go back to cdi once there was something to do. 2. CDI try and hire PLD to kill everyone in tribute who are not part of NAST. 3. CDI members charge 15mil a day for a mining pass in tribute. 4. CDI are spotted flying in gangs with Oracles of Curse. 5. CDI breaches every one of the rules set forth by the PA during there probation. 6. RONA start up an alt corp for pirating Techell. 7. GODS corp attack norad. 8. CDI go down and pirate in XETIC. 9. PA NAP with F-E. 10. PA NAP with CA. 11. PA attack their allies, Evolution, who had prior permission to travel through their space. 12. PA were in preparation for a full attack on FA before we began this war. 13. While fighting alongside RKK, c0d and FU agaisnt the joint F-E/CA forces in d7-, CDI attack and kill two friendly ships. 14. PA attack RKK friend in EC-P8R, when asked to stop they don't. 15. PA attack and kill Revolution ships after a peace treaty and under the flag of friendship. PA in direct Aggression against RKK 1. After recieving confirmation from Halseth that we could use the H-PA station in venal, Mixmaster kills an RKK indie filled with bistot. 2. CDI aid CA to take a station held by RKK (recorded on FRAPS). 3. CE attack nafri without provication due to his ex-pirate background (cough tankuk/havocide etc etc are ok though? cough). 4. Occasus Republic attack the IMK factory station that is owned by RKK. 5. Rona-Kia, Bladerunners, and oberon destroy three RKK BS after we rightfully reclaim the D7 station with permission from the PA Leaders. 6. Dredd from blades states on FU TS that the PA council had decided last week to make RKK KOS, and was questioning why the FU would rather fight an alliance than a 20 man corp. 7. PA members go on to FU TS and tell FU members that RKK are attacking PA in venal and in EC-P8R when in fact we were all in Curse Space (ask CA - they killed my scorp). 8. CDI attack an RKK BS (strike) one hour after the PA agrees to reign them in and cease hostilities (this is when RONA said they would quit PA if they couldn't contain CDI - all recorded on TS). 9. CDI hires Havocide to circle our ships in tribute talking smack (after I had told PA specifically that any smack against us from CDI would result in war - no last chances). 10. After I informed PA I was going to move the corp to curse space to let things chill so we could repair the friendship, CDI attack and take our station 24 hours later. 11. 2 weeks ago, all PA corps put RKK to -10 without ANY forum post stating intent on war (hence why we didn't against you). 12. RKK BS (Gatechboi) is destroyed by PA forces "accidently". Deny them and flame them all you want. I don't care. They happened. Everyone knows they happened. We know our reasons perfectly for going to war. Do you know your reasons for defending your fellow PA corps? dbp Current RKK Ranking: (CAL4) Soldier Drop by and say hi in Reikoku Forums.
TMX	Posted - 2004.06.03 12:19:00 - [22] proof? ------------------------------------------- Live fast die young, clone and take revenge!
DB Preacher	Posted - 2004.06.03 12:21:00 - [23] Edited by: DB Preacher on 03/06/2004 12:25:15 Originally by: TMX proof? 99% of these have already been confirmed by your own Leaders. I don't need to prove anything to the trolls. Our allies have been there and seen everything going on with full proof of 1st hand experience throughout. That is why they are at war with you also. dbp Current RKK Ranking: (CAL4) Soldier Drop by and say hi in Reikoku Forums.
Talsarius	Posted - 2004.06.03 12:31:00 - [24] Very compelling information db... Thanks for taking the time to post this. Ouchies
Dave Toz	Posted - 2004.06.03 12:32:00 - [25] Originally by: DB Preacher Edited by: DB Preacher on 03/06/2004 10:31:13 This war will continue until all allies agree it is complete. We have explained our reasons in full on these forums and are now bored of the constant repition of questions coming from the PA camp. Once you are ready to surrender, come speak to us. Until then. dbp Damn, you made me caugh my lunch all over the keyboard why would we want to surrender? Dave
Riddari	Posted - 2004.06.03 12:35:00 - [26] Originally by: TMX proof? Are you all kept in dungeons or something where you don't see the sun, the stars and things happening around your space, in your own channels and on all the message boards? ¼©¼ a history
Jade Constantine	Posted - 2004.06.03 12:36:00 - [27] Edited by: Jade Constantine on 03/06/2004 12:40:13 I'm not really interested in responding to this sort of thing from this point. The arguments have been had, the points have been made, the politics have been discussed, the smears and accusations have flown and absolutely nothing has changed. The evidence as DB presents is overwhelming. Everyone knows where they stand. And now it just remains to fight it out. The eventual winners of this thing will clearly be in the right and the losers wrong. Let History sort it out. People whose opinions I care about are resolved. Anything to add? I don't think so. JF Public Forum
Sun Ra	Posted - 2004.06.03 12:42:00 - [28] Edited by: Sun Ra on 03/06/2004 12:46:37 Originally by: Dave Toz Originally by: DB Preacher Edited by: DB Preacher on 03/06/2004 10:31:13 This war will continue until all allies agree it is complete. We have explained our reasons in full on these forums and are now bored of the constant repition of questions coming from the PA camp. Once you are ready to surrender, come speak to us. Until then. dbp Damn, you made me caugh my lunch all over the keyboard why would we want to surrender? Dave I personally don't want you to surrender, I am playing EVE for PVP! what is annoying is all these post saying PA did nothing to RKK or we started this over one event and we had no reason to fight and that Jade is twisting us and others to fight. Now consider the list please, PA only had to kill 2 EVOL ships for them to start a war and im sure lots of other corps/allaince only needed one of these things to happen, we didnt because RKK(not jade not anyone else) considered PA allies still. If you still can't accept our reason and im sure you won't, im sorry but that whole list is our reasons like it or lump it, you'll hear no more from me about it.
Presidio	Posted - 2004.06.03 12:58:00 - [29] Edited by: Presidio on 03/06/2004 13:03:20 - "Passivity is fatal to us. Our goal is to make the enemy passive." Mao Tse-tung
Presidio	Posted - 2004.06.03 13:00:00 - [30] Originally by: DB Preacher 7. GODS corp attack norad. dbp We had a corp war with TheMM. Blacklight knows the whole story and the issue had been sorted out, ofcourse it wouldn't suprise me if he denied it. So you call this an act of piracy? So again nothing but lies. If NORAD really needs a reason to go to war with PA, that's fine, let that reason be us. But before you can question our morals, you first have to stop lying. - "Passivity is fatal to us. Our goal is to make the enemy passive." Mao Tse-tung

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