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Rhanna Khurin Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force	Posted - 2008.08.13 10:02:00 - [1] Edited by: Rhanna Khurin on 13/08/2008 10:02:18 (I have looked at the last 10 pages of this forum before making this thread) After a little hiatus from mining, i come back and potter around only to find ore/mineral prices just plain suck now. They're at their worst since about September last year. Anyone know what the cause of this is please? As it's the primary source of money for me, my profits are going to be cut by about a third if i sell currently.
Poleander	Posted - 2008.08.13 10:08:00 - [2] T1 loot from missions
Bermag Point-Zero R0ADKILL	Posted - 2008.08.13 11:03:00 - [3] Don't think so. Only if somehow mission running has increased a lot lately. Probably less demand for ships, less people playing since summer, increased mining (maybe more macro miners) or something
Rhanna Khurin Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force	Posted - 2008.08.13 11:24:00 - [4] I have noticed a LOT of 4 month old achura characters in noob corps flying Hulks in previously pretty empty systems and mined out roid belts. So i suspect during the tritanium boom, tons of people made mining alts.
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2008.08.13 11:56:00 - [5] TIMELINE ? Introduction of the new drone regions and cynojammers. MASSIVE amounts of highends begin dropping on the empire markets from both the new drone regions and the now-much-safer 0.0 areas. Zydrine experiences a catastrophic fall in price, megacyte too, but not so badly. Isogen and Nocxium however are badly affected too. Lowends begin increasing in price, especially mexallon, which is very under-represented in drone alloy drops. Tritanium increases to prices that make reprocessing NPC-sold items more profitable than mining it. One tritanium pricecap (at around 2.2 ISK per unit) gets removed, a higher one (at around 3.6 ISK per unit, from shuttles) is the new equilibrium point, rest of minerals shift in price as a response. Carrier hauling capacity (nothing except ammo and charges allowed in cargo of maintenance bay docked ships) and mineral compression (rework of module volumes) both get nerfed, creating more localized prices for minerals and increased differences between highsec and 0.0 Veldspar slowly becomes the most profitable ore to mine close to highsec trade hubs, the most valuable ore in highsec AND lowsec combined, for a short while anyway. A small change in drone alloy refine yield (less megacyte, more lowends) and the NPC sell orders for shuttles get removed, sending people in a tritanium price panic until people figure out you can still obtain tritanium at around 3.6 ISK per unit from civilian modules. However, due to convenience issues, actual prices dip below that, since it requires effort to move. TODAY ? Veldspar is STILL among the best ores to mine in both highsec and lowsec, most lowsec ores are crap, and 0.0 ores are not worth significantly more than Veldspar (not the price difference of more than a year ago, anyway). Minerals (especially lowends) are very cumbersome to export to 0.0, and highsec belts are being routinely stripped of any asteroids with increasing frequency, especially the Veldspar, but lately, people just stripmine everything because it's all roughly worth the same anyway. _ THE APPRENTICE \|\| mineral balance \|\| nanofix
Kazzac Elentria	Posted - 2008.08.13 12:16:00 - [6] What Akita said
Clair Bear Coalition of Nations Free Trade Zone.	Posted - 2008.08.13 14:53:00 - [7] Tomorrow: increased safety of highsec (and to a smaller degree alliance 0.0) makes AFK rigged/expanded hulk mining x many accounts more attractive. Increased GTC length/price makes rolling a hulk pilot alt on a datacore account a desirable strategy - having alts active for 2 months in a row rather than 1 can be offset by 'AFK' empire mining. Short term: pause in rise of highends between the nano and suicide ganking nerf as 0.0 alliance space becomes the safest space to mine in. Long term: a continued slide in trit around the time of the highsec ganking & wardec nerf, slow deflation of pye and a continued rise of zydrine.
Kris Longknife	Posted - 2008.08.14 17:20:00 - [8] I think some of it might be blueprints, I do a fair amount of manufacturing and recently came into a corporation that had a well researched stockpile of BPO's. It's a steady and gradual process but a definite factor. It has reduced mateiral requirments across the board by about 10% for me. As ME goes up demand for minerals goes down. And the guys who spent months researching to get to ME 50 are going to keep going to 60 and 100 and 200. As the game gets older more of these ridiculously researched BP's are popping up and spinning off BPC's and when it gets to that level most of these people refuse to undock with them so they are not being destroyed. It may not be THE factor for the drop in minerals but I think that it is a contributing factor.
Letrange Minmatar Chaosstorm Corporation Apoapsis Multiversal Consortium	Posted - 2008.08.14 17:52:00 - [9] Originally by: Kris Longknife I think some of it might be blueprints, I do a fair amount of manufacturing and recently came into a corporation that had a well researched stockpile of BPO's. It's a steady and gradual process but a definite factor. It has reduced mateiral requirments across the board by about 10% for me. As ME goes up demand for minerals goes down. And the guys who spent months researching to get to ME 50 are going to keep going to 60 and 100 and 200. As the game gets older more of these ridiculously researched BP's are popping up and spinning off BPC's and when it gets to that level most of these people refuse to undock with them so they are not being destroyed. It may not be THE factor for the drop in minerals but I think that it is a contributing factor. Don't think so, most serious industrialist have always manufactured from researched BPOs. And you have to remember the diminishing returns of high ME numbers. There is very little difference between an ME:30 bpo and an ME:50 bpo. At least as far as mineral usage goes.
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2008.08.14 17:57:00 - [10] Heck, ME 9 is already reasonably high (1% waste instead of 10% waste), with ME 20 you have less than 0.5% waste, why would you even bother with ME 50 in the first place (less than 0.2% waste) ? ME 20 seems already like overkill to me, ME 10 is more than reasonable. _ THE APPRENTICE \|\| mineral balance \|\| nanofix
ImUrDestiny Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2008.08.14 20:14:00 - [11] Originally by: Letrange most serious industrialist have always manufactured from researched BPOs. There are even rumors going around that REALLY serious industrialists make copies and manufacture from those. Truly amazing if you ask me
Absimi Liard Gallente Confederate Miners Union of Eve space weaponry and trade	Posted - 2008.08.14 23:29:00 - [12] Originally by: ImUrDestiny Originally by: Letrange most serious industrialist have always manufactured from researched BPOs. There are even rumors going around that REALLY serious industrialists make copies and manufacture from those. Truly amazing if you ask me OMG! No! Say it ain't so Joe. goes off to count up his BPCs he uses to build stuff and fondle his carefully hoarded stash of BPOs Now, as for ME research. Akita has it right, unsurprisingly. The advance from ME0 to ME10 is huge, and well worth doing. Going from ME10 to ME20 is okay if you're making huge runs of stuff, but it's only half a percent. Going beyond ME20 is pretty much a waste of your research time, build or copy from the damn thing instead. So it's unlikely, alas for our initial theorist, that the mineral abundance is due to more highly researched BPOs. That would also be a very long-term rise. I think market forces are more likely the cause in this case. -abs
Danari Syncore	Posted - 2008.08.16 12:59:00 - [13] I don't quite get what sucks about low mineral prices, even to a miner. The number of ships and mods he can buy with his sold minerals is essentially identical to what it was before. The OP's argument is as valid as saying an amp that only dials to 10 isn't as loud as the one on Spinal Tap. You have to slice the mineral segment quite a bit further to even begin talking about winners vs. losers over the past several months.
Pax Empyrean	Posted - 2008.08.16 14:46:00 - [14] Quote: I don't quite get what sucks about low mineral prices, even to a miner. The price of looted mission modules tend to be a little bit sticky downwards, meaning that if you're in the reprocessing business, declining mineral prices can hit your margins pretty hard.
Danari Syncore	Posted - 2008.08.16 21:44:00 - [15] Originally by: Pax Empyrean Quote: I don't quite get what sucks about low mineral prices, even to a miner. The price of looted mission modules tend to be a little bit sticky downwards, meaning that if you're in the reprocessing business, declining mineral prices can hit your margins pretty hard. Margin? What are the costs of a mission runner that constitute the basis of a 'margin'? The mission runner is an income earner and a consumer in the same economy of the miner, who is a producer and a consumer. Both are shocked to find that his isk combined with all the other isk is precisely enough to buy the aggregate of available goods. It must be a conspiracy. And this amp goes to 11 I tell you.
Terminus adacai Caldari	Posted - 2008.08.16 21:53:00 - [16] Here is a heads up.... Prices in Heimatar and Metro are sliding upwards. Look at the 30 day chart across the board. It appears that back to school means fewer mining hours and prices may creep up as supply drops. Opinions reflected on my posts are just that, my opinions. They do not reflect views held by my corp or alliance.
PaddyPaddy Nihildarnik Gallente aurorae pacificas	Posted - 2008.08.18 11:46:00 - [17] Megacyte has hit the highest prices it has done in a year in gallente space. Pretty interesting graph really. Wish I had bought more of it prior to the drone drop change
Pax Empyrean	Posted - 2008.08.18 14:30:00 - [18] Originally by: Danari Originally by: Pax Empyrean Quote: I don't quite get what sucks about low mineral prices, even to a miner. The price of looted mission modules tend to be a little bit sticky downwards, meaning that if you're in the reprocessing business, declining mineral prices can hit your margins pretty hard. Margin? What are the costs of a mission runner that constitute the basis of a 'margin'? I said "If you're in the reprocessing business", and I happen to be in the reprocessing business. I don't run missions, I just buy modules and reprocess them. I don't feel like announcing exactly what my margins are, but they're tight enough that small changes make a big difference in my profits.
Danari Syncore	Posted - 2008.08.19 10:39:00 - [19] Originally by: Pax Empyrean Originally by: Danari Originally by: Pax Empyrean Quote: I don't quite get what sucks about low mineral prices, even to a miner. The price of looted mission modules tend to be a little bit sticky downwards, meaning that if you're in the reprocessing business, declining mineral prices can hit your margins pretty hard. Margin? What are the costs of a mission runner that constitute the basis of a 'margin'? I said "If you're in the reprocessing business", and I happen to be in the reprocessing business. I don't run missions, I just buy modules and reprocess them. I don't feel like announcing exactly what my margins are, but they're tight enough that small changes make a big difference in my profits. Apologies, the word mission crossed my eyes and they involuntarily glazed over. Yeah that 90-day buy order can quickly underscore that diversification is the only true way to riches in Eve, as in life.
Pax Empyrean	Posted - 2008.08.19 13:11:00 - [20] Quote: Apologies, the word mission crossed my eyes and they involuntarily glazed over. Yeah, that happens to me too. Unfortunately because of that my faction standing is lower than it ought to be and I end up paying too much in broker fees. Meh.

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