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How can i improve this deimos fit?

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Fifi LeFume No Trademark Obsidian Empire	Posted - 2008.08.15 05:18:00 - [1] Edited by: Fifi LeFume on 15/08/2008 05:20:26 Hi: 2x heavy neutron ii's 3x heavy Ion ii's Mid: 10mn mwd ii wd ii fleeting web Low Mar II dc ii armor explo hard ii 3x MFS II 5x hammerhead ii This is what i used to fly and can push 640dps with the drones and CN AM My problem is that it tanks as well as chocolate cake at rosie o'donnell's birthday party. Some people use variations of an 800mm plate and eanm's, but then again why not use a brutix? How can i make this ship worth flying over the tier 1 bc AND justify its cost? My experience is that even if there are other bs's in fleet, once i get into orbit/web range of an enemy bs he and his buddies will switch targets to me (even if the primary was something else) because they know they can remove my dps in about 6 seconds and get another killmail edit: With the upcoming web changes, do you think the close range paper thin deimos will have a better time against larger targets and not get ganked so easily? (non-misslie using targets as i feel that misisles will still be a threat)
Merin Ryskin Peregrine Industries	Posted - 2008.08.15 05:23:00 - [2] Originally by: Fifi LeFume How can i make this ship worth flying over the tier 1 bc AND justify its cost? You can't.
Fifi LeFume No Trademark Obsidian Empire	Posted - 2008.08.15 05:24:00 - [3] Originally by: Merin Ryskin Originally by: Fifi LeFume How can i make this ship worth flying over the tier 1 bc AND justify its cost? You can't. you're lying
Korasain	Posted - 2008.08.15 05:26:00 - [4] Swap the MAR II for a 800mm plate. Other than that, you can't.
Fifi LeFume No Trademark Obsidian Empire	Posted - 2008.08.15 05:28:00 - [5] Would i be a filthy rich idiot to swap out the MAR for an 800mm plate and add trimarks? It will be slower, but still relatively fast to get into range of the bigger bs's (plus even if im not in optimal, the fall off bonus helps me while i get into blaster range)
Edriahn Gallente Bulgarian Mafia Squad	Posted - 2008.08.15 06:11:00 - [6] 1600mm RT
Dura'Lorth	Posted - 2008.08.15 06:14:00 - [7] all honesty a brutix is better, more Grid, CPU, easier to fit. EHP values are diffrent demois might have more EHP. i havent checked. I also cant recall the done bay and bandwidth. fun fact, with max skills a demois gets a 50% damage bonus to medium hybrid, 5 turrets * 1.50 = 7.5, a brutix has 7 turrets so at max skills a demois is just beating it out. At the moment, its not worth it to fly HACs over BCs except for a few situations. Cerb if you want to long range missle spam, and eagle if you want to snipe at 250km, even then its not always the best choice. ================================================== You cant spell risk with out isk.
Aakito	Posted - 2008.08.15 06:19:00 - [8] GANK HACs are never cost efficient. Without nano, only a few hacs are worthwhile to fly given their huge cost and performance compared to BCs. But then again, everyone knows this. Lets see how CCP go about changing things.
Easley Thames The Maverick Navy Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2008.08.15 07:08:00 - [9] Deimos is just a flying coffin, and an expensive one at that. I don't know what your skills look like, but if you have the isk to keep losing HACs, maybe you should try out (or train for) an astarte. More expensive, sure, but you get a ship that makes good use of its T2 resists. Otherwise yes, just fly an insured Brutix. Very cost-effective.
Grimpak Gallente Trinity Nova Trinity Nova Alliance	Posted - 2008.08.15 07:13:00 - [10] coming from someone that likes blaster ships, and isn't scared of using a deimos at its full, I would say to ditch the mar, slap 2 trimarks and go full neutrons. it will never beat a BC however, but sometimes the increased agility is better. also, a T2 web instead the fleeting makes it cheaper, and don't forget your med ECM drones and faction AM. just keep in mind that the deimos is not designed to tank. --- Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals. ain't that right.
Merin Ryskin Peregrine Industries	Posted - 2008.08.15 07:40:00 - [11] Originally by: Dura'Lorth fun fact, with max skills a demois gets a 50% damage bonus to medium hybrid, 5 turrets * 1.50 = 7.5, a brutix has 7 turrets so at max skills a demois is just beating it out. Err, you remember the Brutix gets a 25% damage bonus, right? The simple fact is the Deimos is trash. Its only "role" is massive point-blank DPS, and the Brutix does more DPS. Sure, the Deimos has more speed/agility to run down a target and gank it, but I'd hardly call that cost-effective.
vostok Minmatar Intrepid Proprietary Alliance	Posted - 2008.08.15 08:05:00 - [12] Originally by: Dura'Lorth all honesty a brutix is better, more Grid, CPU, easier to fit. EHP values are diffrent demois might have more EHP. i havent checked. I also cant recall the done bay and bandwidth. fun fact, with max skills a demois gets a 50% damage bonus to medium hybrid, 5 turrets * 1.50 = 7.5, a brutix has 7 turrets so at max skills a demois is just beating it out. At the moment, its not worth it to fly HACs over BCs except for a few situations. Cerb if you want to long range missle spam, and eagle if you want to snipe at 250km, even then its not always the best choice. Wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong.... deimos gets 2 25% bonuses = 1.25 x 1.25 = 1.5625 = 7.8 effective turrets for deimos also the brutix has a bonus therefore brutix = 8.75 effective turrets They both have the same drone space too. But your other points were right :) I never understood why people flew hacs before nano tbh.
oniplE Loving Pirates	Posted - 2008.08.15 09:04:00 - [13] Originally by: Grimpak coming from someone that likes blaster ships, and isn't scared of using a deimos at its full, I would say to ditch the mar, slap 2 trimarks and go full neutrons. it will never beat a BC however, but sometimes the increased agility is better. also, a T2 web instead the fleeting makes it cheaper, and don't forget your med ECM drones and faction AM. just keep in mind that the deimos is not designed to tank. The only thing a deimos does better than a brutix is tank :P The deimos is a nice concept, but if you look at it objectively there's no point in flying it. x
Fifi LeFume No Trademark Obsidian Empire	Posted - 2008.08.15 12:11:00 - [14] Introducing the "I am so rich I dont care its stupid" setup [Deimos, crazy dual rep] Medium Armor Repairer II Medium Armor Repairer II Damage Control II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Armor Explosive Hardener II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II 10MN MicroWarpdrive II Stasis Webifier II Medium Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Cap Booster 800 Heavy Electron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Electron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Electron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Electron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Small Diminishing Power System Drain I Nanobot Accelerator I Auxiliary Nano Pump I Hammerhead II x5 390 dps tanked, 490 dps with my skills. On a cookie cutter 2x mar, 1 dc, 2x eanm brutix, with 3 aux nano pumps, my skills yield me 344 dps tanked, and 453 dps. Ofc the brutix has more EHP. Its a lulz setup but might surprise the average 1 v 1 bs pilot. Am i crazy? or am i gallente?
NeoTheo Dark Materials	Posted - 2008.08.15 12:15:00 - [15] Originally by: Fifi LeFume Introducing the "I am so rich I dont care its stupid" setup [Deimos, crazy dual rep] Medium Armor Repairer II Medium Armor Repairer II Damage Control II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Armor Explosive Hardener II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II 10MN MicroWarpdrive II Stasis Webifier II Medium Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Cap Booster 800 Heavy Electron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Electron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Electron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Electron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Small Diminishing Power System Drain I Nanobot Accelerator I Auxiliary Nano Pump I Hammerhead II x5 390 dps tanked, 490 dps with my skills. On a cookie cutter 2x mar, 1 dc, 2x eanm brutix, with 3 aux nano pumps, my skills yield me 344 dps tanked, and 453 dps. Ofc the brutix has more EHP. Its a lulz setup but might surprise the average 1 v 1 bs pilot. Am i crazy? or am i gallente? problem with tanking these things is you REALLY should just use the phobos... Neotheo Dark Materials Linkage
Fifi LeFume No Trademark Obsidian Empire	Posted - 2008.08.15 12:18:00 - [16] Originally by: NeoTheo problem with tanking these things is you REALLY should just use the phobos... Thing is everybody expects the phobos to be lowgank high tank. This is sort of a balance between gank/tank (albeit very expensive) Plus which genius decided the phobos should have no drone bay? id rather they chop off a turret and give it 25 cubes. ITS FRICKING GALLENTE! even the gallente noob ship has a 5m^3 drone bay
Djerin Free-Space-Ranger Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2008.08.15 12:18:00 - [17] If you want to actively tank stuff you should consider to use a more suitable ship tbh. A Brutix would be better 7 days the week for the purpose of tanking. Grow some balls and buffer-tank the Deimos. ---- Sarmaul's crosstrainorgtfo
Fifi LeFume No Trademark Obsidian Empire	Posted - 2008.08.15 12:24:00 - [18] [Deimos, passive] 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Internal Force Field Array I Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Armor Explosive Hardener II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II 10MN MicroWarpdrive II Stasis Webifier II Warp Disruptor II Heavy Electron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Electron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Electron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Electron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Small Diminishing Power System Drain I Trimark Armor Pump I Trimark Armor Pump I Hammerhead II x5 561 dps, 54k EHP
Drek Grapper Minmatar	Posted - 2008.08.15 12:25:00 - [19] It seems that after the patch HAC's will be the new AF's! --------- If the Thorax was a car it would look like this
oniplE Loving Pirates	Posted - 2008.08.15 13:06:00 - [20] Originally by: Fifi LeFume Introducing the "I am so rich I dont care its stupid" setup [Deimos, crazy dual rep] Medium Armor Repairer II Medium Armor Repairer II Damage Control II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Armor Explosive Hardener II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II 10MN MicroWarpdrive II Stasis Webifier II Medium Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Cap Booster 800 Heavy Electron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Electron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Electron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Electron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Small Diminishing Power System Drain I Nanobot Accelerator I Auxiliary Nano Pump I Hammerhead II x5 390 dps tanked, 490 dps with my skills. On a cookie cutter 2x mar, 1 dc, 2x eanm brutix, with 3 aux nano pumps, my skills yield me 344 dps tanked, and 453 dps. Ofc the brutix has more EHP. Its a lulz setup but might surprise the average 1 v 1 bs pilot. Am i crazy? or am i gallente? I've been.. "promoting" a similar set up for a while. The main arguments against such a setup are always the following two: 1) Get a brutix, it has a better tank! A deimos outtanks a brutix while doing more damage. 2)You are not supposed to tank a deimos! You must go for full damage!! This isnt even a real argument, its an opinion. The dual damage bonus will give you a dps output that is better than most other hacs with 2-3 damage mods. x
Helios Hyperion Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2008.08.15 13:12:00 - [21] you all fail. if you want to tank something.. buffer or otherwise.. don't fly a hac.. don't destroy it's range by fitting less than neutrons, don't destroy it's maneuverability by using a 1600rt. i used to think that was the way to go, 1600mm on all my deimos... but then i realized how much more effective the brutix is in such a role.. [Deimos, New Setup 1] Damage Control II Gallente Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer Gallente Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer Gallente Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer Overdrive Injector System II Overdrive Injector System II 10MN MicroWarpdrive II Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I Fleeting Warp Scrambler I Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M [empty high slot] Hybrid Ambit Extension I Hybrid Ambit Extension I Hammerhead II x5 Blast in, blast out leave a mark. survivability in a can fly with falcons? :)
Trevor Warps	Posted - 2008.08.15 15:26:00 - [22] Originally by: Fifi LeFume ITS FRICKING GALLENTE! even the gallente noob ship has a 5m^3 drone bay 10m3
Bronson Hughes Knights of the Wild	Posted - 2008.08.15 17:20:00 - [23] Edited by: Bronson Hughes on 15/08/2008 17:20:59 Deimoses are something of an enigma to me. Lots of people say that the only way to fit them is full gank because of all the damage bonuses they get. Personally, I would view it as a good tank ship because the damage bonuses would allow it to fit a full tank and still do decent DPS. It's rather how Caldari railboats can make decent blasterboats becuase what they lack up for in mobility and firepower they somewhat make up for with a larger engagement envelope and bigger buffer. Regardless of how you want to fit a Diemos however, HACs in general are typically not worth the cost for the performance they give over battlecruisers unless you're doing something with a HAC that a BC can't do (i.e. very long range sniping, crazy-fast nano fit, etc.) and this leaves the 'vanilla' HACs like the Deimos without much justification for use. -------------------- "I am hard pressed on my right; my centre is giving way; situation excellent; I am attacking." - Ferdinand Foch at the Battle of the Marne
Grimpak Gallente Trinity Nova Trinity Nova Alliance	Posted - 2008.08.15 18:51:00 - [24] Originally by: oniplE Originally by: Grimpak coming from someone that likes blaster ships, and isn't scared of using a deimos at its full, I would say to ditch the mar, slap 2 trimarks and go full neutrons. it will never beat a BC however, but sometimes the increased agility is better. also, a T2 web instead the fleeting makes it cheaper, and don't forget your med ECM drones and faction AM. just keep in mind that the deimos is not designed to tank. The only thing a deimos does better than a brutix is tank :P The deimos is a nice concept, but if you look at it objectively there's no point in flying it. for the first seconds. then the cap runs out and the brutix still has some juice and more hp. but yes, altho I love the deimos due to the concept of the ship ("dps is my tank, yo"), it does have some shortcomings that the brutix and the T2 version, the astarte, has better, like better tank and more firepower, while the deimos sacrifices a bit of firepower and hp for more agility (and speed perhaps?). it's really a matter of opinion about the ship and the way you like to fly. I, for example like to do "do-or-die" setups with blaster ships. --- Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals. ain't that right.
Dr Fighter	Posted - 2008.08.15 20:19:00 - [25] Edited by: Dr Fighter on 15/08/2008 20:19:00 yes i know its not a deimos! hear me out [Brutix, No one ever expects the passive shield gank brutix!] Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Reactor Control Unit II Damage Control II Invulnerability Field II Large Shield Extender II 10MN MicroWarpdrive II Stasis Webifier II 7x Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M 2x Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I Hammerhead II x5 880 dps with max skills, just less than 50k (more than a 1600 plate trimark deimos)
Dura'Lorth	Posted - 2008.08.15 22:06:00 - [26] Originally by: Dr Fighter Edited by: Dr Fighter on 15/08/2008 20:19:00 yes i know its not a deimos! hear me out [Brutix, No one ever expects the passive shield gank brutix!] Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Reactor Control Unit II Damage Control II Invulnerability Field II Large Shield Extender II 10MN MicroWarpdrive II Stasis Webifier II 7x Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M 2x Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I Hammerhead II x5 880 dps with max skills, just less than 50k (more than a 1600 plate trimark deimos) and the target would just warp off. ================================================== You cant spell risk with out isk.

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