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Aaarrrggh
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Posted - 2008.08.18 21:10:00 -
[1]
Hi,
I submitted a petition for this and was advised to raise it on the council to get support for a change in the game mechanics. Please add your support....
In my opinion the wrong price is being used where a buy order is placed at a higher price than items already being sold on the market. In this case it uses the higher buy price rather than the asking price for the goods.
This is critical and has happened to me twice now whereby when entering a buy order, you catch an extra key just as you press enter and instead of bidding 5 million isk you end up bidding 50 million. Even though items are being sold at 10 million and only 10 million is required to buy the item it gives the seller the whole 50 million! Whilst this is a very nice surprise for the seller it is pretty ridiculous and would never happen in real life.
PS The "are you sure you want to buy for this price" dialogue box didn't appear in the instance above due to the lower intended bid price vs the higher market average.
It took me quite a while to gather the 50 million and I'm pretty annoyed at having given it away when I didn't intend/need to.
Can we get this changed so that it only pays the seller the asking price please?
Also the "are you sure" dialogue box appears with annoying regularity when you don't want it but fails to appear when you do and I guess that the reason for this is it always compares the price to regional average? I think it would be a much more useful tool if it were to compare your new buy order to other buy orders already on the market and your new sell order to other sell orders on the market. |
Herschel Yamamoto
Bloodmoney Incorporated
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Posted - 2008.08.18 21:21:00 -
[2]
Agree with changing how it works, yes. I don't like punishing people too harshly for typos(especially given that I make so many). |
Attas
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Posted - 2008.08.18 21:24:00 -
[3]
makes sense |
Arithron
Gallente Trade Alliance
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Posted - 2008.08.18 21:25:00 -
[4]
Having wasted 200 mil doing something similar quite sometime ago, I agree.
However, bear in mind that some players don't look at sell orders when they put buys up!
But, you are right...if your buy order is higher per unit than the current sell order, you should get a warning box.
The box should always appear, but have an option to never show again...then typos can be directly attributed to stupidity ;)
Take care,
Arithron |
Matalino
Gallente
Ki Tech Industries
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Posted - 2008.08.18 21:45:00 -
[5]
 Originally by: Arithron
you should get a warning box.
The box should always appear, but have an option to never show again...then typos can be directly attributed to stupidity ;)
You mean like the warning box that pops up when ever you buy something for a price far greater than the regional average, like how the OP bought something for 10x the likely regional average. 
I expect that the reason that this works this way is that the buy order price can be used for all the purchases it generates without checking the prices of the seller orders that it fills individually to calculate the amount of ISK to transfer. It only needs to check for sell orders at a lower price and then fill the sell orders starting with the lowest priced offer. Thus allowing the market to place a minimal load on the server. |
Zarlis
The Scope
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Posted - 2008.08.22 00:18:00 -
[6]
prob needs looking at someone bought 110mil worth of trit off me for 1.2bil a couple of months back
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Drolus
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Posted - 2008.08.22 08:23:00 -
[7]
supported
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Gabriel Darkefyre
Crystal Ship
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Posted - 2008.08.22 09:29:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Gabriel Darkefyre on 22/08/2008 09:30:33
Supported, not just for typos but to make things easier for bulk purchases.
Say, for example, I'm at a Station where the following sell orders are up for widgets.
50,000 Units @ 100 Isk
20,000 Units @ 150 Isk
30,000 Units @ 200 Isk
I want to buy 100,000 Units from these orders (I need these widgets NOW and don't want to muck around waiting for a Buy Order to fill in this particular case)
Now, with the current system I have two choices. I can:-
1. Buy each of the orders seperately, taking three times as long to make my purchase.
2. Buy 100,000 Units at 200 Isk each, overpaying for the 70,000 Units on offer for less.
What I'd like to see is a system where I can make one order for 100,000 Units with a Maximum Price of 200 Isk with the order filling from the bottom paying the listed price to each seller.
Also, if there's still volume to fill in my order after doing this, a buy order will be created for the shortfall automatically if I have the skills to create that order in the chosen station.
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This would have a knock on effect of making it much harder to pull off scams via the market including the one where an ISK seller puts a sell order on the market for a single unit of Ammo at a ridiculously high price, an ISK buyer then creates a Legitimate Order for 1,000,000 Units at the best Sell Price. ISK Seller then "Accidentally" buys from his own order, but the ISK goes to the ISK Buyer as the Lowest Current Sell Order. With this change, all the ISK buyer would get would be the 50 Isk (ish) that he's actually selling his ammo for thus making it much harder to disguise such transactions via the Market, thus forcing them to use Direct Fund Transfers or Private Contracts to perform the transfer of ISK. This has the nice added effect of making the paper trail much clearer for CCP when investigating suspected ISK Sellers/Buyers.
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Cheap Dude
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Posted - 2008.08.22 10:20:00 -
[9]
Not supported.. Check your transaction logs and contact the person who bought/sold you the item and resolve the issue with them. If he/she doesn't help out then kill him 
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NanDe YaNen
The Funkalistic
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Posted - 2008.08.22 16:31:00 -
[10]
NO!
In principle, if orders are able to execute, the lowest price on limit orders merely ensures who's in line to get your money. You, placing a market order, say you are willing to pay xxx amount. Having the lowest sell order just means that seller is first in line to take advantage of your mistake/bad trade/lack of market knowledge.
As a market maker economic PVP'er, that mechanic punishes people who take the time to identify you as a seller and then try to bypass your order. They buy one trit at your price, decide they don't like you, and move up to the next highest order, but your limit order is first in line so they just end up giving you even more money for the same trit...which you bought from them.
That's the way it should be. Buys and sells. Nobody forces you to press an extra key. Nobody forces you to create an order for more than the ask price.
The mechanic is essential for MM's to make a killing by working the spread in hostile alliance's stations. You make money. They get more trades. In the end it works out pretty good for everyone, but you do the least work for your check.
Do not kill market makers with this ridiculous idea.
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Drake Draconis
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Posted - 2008.08.22 17:05:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Cheap Dude
Not supported.. Check your transaction logs and contact the person who bought/sold you the item and resolve the issue with them. If he/she doesn't help out then kill him
With all due respect... do you think the seller is going to give a damn?
Its a "legal transaction" -- once you hit that enter key... what do you expect? "Oh I change my mind" won't work.
And people already resort to violence anyway... so its likely to end up being a wild goose chase and you still won't get your money back unless you hound him/her half way across the galaxy.
"Are you sure you want to make this transaction" with the option to "opt out" is far more logistical not to mention rational.
Its likening to walking up to some guy on the street and buying a watch only to find out you spent to much... good luck finding the guy and killing him... he'll be miles away laughing.
People don't care about honor when it comes to selling goods anymore they just want your money just like any good enterprising trench coat wearing pilot in space trying to offload some goods.
PS: Personally I live entirely in the "View Details" world of the market and always carefully pick what I want and double check the quantity. But not everyone is good at that.
/signed
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NanDe YaNen
The Funkalistic
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Posted - 2008.08.22 22:02:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Drake Draconis
Originally by: Cheap Dude
Not supported.. Check your transaction logs and contact the person who bought/sold you the item and resolve the issue with them. If he/she doesn't help out then kill him
With all due respect... do you think the seller is going to give a damn?
Its a "legal transaction" -- once you hit that enter key... what do you expect? "Oh I change my mind" won't work.
And people already resort to violence anyway... so its likely to end up being a wild goose chase and you still won't get your money back unless you hound him/her half way across the galaxy.
"Are you sure you want to make this transaction" with the option to "opt out" is far more logistical not to mention rational.
Its likening to walking up to some guy on the street and buying a watch only to find out you spent to much... good luck finding the guy and killing him... he'll be miles away laughing.
People don't care about honor when it comes to selling goods anymore they just want your money just like any good enterprising trench coat wearing pilot in space trying to offload some goods.
PS: Personally I live entirely in the "View Details" world of the market and always carefully pick what I want and double check the quantity. But not everyone is good at that.
/signed
I live entirely in view details. When you say "place a buy order" it automatically sets the amount to the ask. No excuse. In order to make this mistake, you have to be manually setting up a bid, in which case YOU entered the transaction and YOU are at fault. OP says "blah blah blah it's using the wrong price when I make a mistake. make my game easy for me."
The market interface shouldn't take care of lazy people. They have every opportunity to protect themselves from spending money. There is no such thing as non-consensual market PvP. If you don't want to play, don't buy.
Also, we already have a system for buying and selling to particular people, one's we trust, and at a price we agree to. Contracts.
This is nothing more than a fix for inattentiveness.
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Drake Draconis
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Posted - 2008.08.22 23:51:00 -
[13]
Well said.... I have to agree with your statements there.
However... scammers are all over the place these days.
But yes... contracts are essentially a good system for that kind of thing.
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Hesod Adee
Perkone
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Posted - 2008.08.23 00:08:00 -
[14]
I say go for the price in whichever order was placed first.
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Aaarrrggh
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Posted - 2008.08.26 16:26:00 -
[15]
It happened again! This time I lost 120mil. This sucks. I caught the 3 key right next to enter. Also on this occassion I received no warning box despite the item being trading between 13-23 mil it accepted my by of 135mil without question.
In reply to NanDe YaNen who says Im lazy for not checking. Why don't you read my post properly. As I said previously I caught an extra key as pressing the enter key. This has nothing to do with being lazy. The price I had typed in was fine before that.
Also in reply to NanDe who says "This is nothing more than a fix for inattentiveness." This cannot be right if the item is being sold on the market at a much lower price then that is what it should take out of your wallet. Can you imagine going into the supermaket and buying a small item with a big note and instead of them giving you change they just say thank you very much and shut the till.
Furthermore I am not asking for a change in who gets the winning bid just the amount of money paid when there is a difference between buy order and sell order. Therefore you whole argument is pretty irrelevant to this thread.
Not happy
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Drake Draconis
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Posted - 2008.08.26 19:29:00 -
[16]
replace your keyboard? ^_^;
j/k
But still... either way... this can swing both directions.
One party will say your not being careful about typing... the other will say we should have more confirmations but they will call that annoying.
Best of luck to yah either way.
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Herschel Yamamoto
Bloodmoney Incorporated
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Posted - 2008.08.26 21:58:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Drake Draconis
replace your keyboard? ^_^;
j/k
But still... either way... this can swing both directions.
One party will say your not being careful about typing... the other will say we should have more confirmations but they will call that annoying.
Best of luck to yah either way.
No need for more confirmations. Just make it buy from/sell to the pre-existing order(s) rather than filling at the price you specify. Simple, common sense, and acceptable for everyone except the random lucky slob who gets 10x more than he asked for occasionally.
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Fix the forums! |
Boonyi
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Posted - 2008.08.26 22:32:00 -
[18]
No. Just be careful what you type in. We traders don't need to be babied.
This is a broker system, if you offer to by Item X at 1mil isk, but the going price is generally 200isk, of course the selling broker is going to take you up on the offer. |
Treelox
Amarr
Market Jihadist Revolutionary Party
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Posted - 2008.08.27 02:43:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Boonyi
No. Just be careful what you type in. We traders don't need to be babied.
This is a broker system, if you offer to by Item X at 1mil isk, but the going price is generally 200isk, of course the selling broker is going to take you up on the offer.
^this^^
I fully disagree with the OP. Might I suggest that he stop playing drunk, stoned or distracted.
Also use of the [TAB] key instead of the [Enter] key while putting in the orders price is highly suggested. Since this will automatically add the commas to your number.
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Orb Lati
Minmatar
ANZAC ALLIANCE
Southern Cross Alliance
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Posted - 2008.08.29 21:43:00 -
[20]
Or how about this.
Dont use the ENTER key on the number pad. That way you and your stubby fingers wont keep screwing up.
"We worship Strength because it is through strength that all other values are made possible" |
Goberth Ludwig
eXceed Inc.
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.08.30 12:09:00 -
[21]
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Eve Goetterdaemmerung
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Posted - 2008.08.30 15:15:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Eve Goetterdaemmerung on 30/08/2008 15:19:18
Some time ago I petitioned (and inserted bugreport) that the Modify Order did not ask when I made an error (one digit to few, and gone was the thing)...
CCP implemented that in the next patch (so petitions and bugreports do help...), but I never got my money back.
I completly agree, that it should not compare to the overall average but to the average buy or sell price and then warn you if the diff is too big.
And that it takes the higher buy price is really stupid...I mean if I offer less for a Sell Order I also dont pay less for it!? I pay the price asked or there is no deal. Should be the same for Buy Orders.
/signed
Eve G.
P.S.: I really like this picture with the peak in it... at least you had some influence on the market 
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