Pages: [1] :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Zaar Cobalt
|
Posted - 2008.08.20 00:59:00 -
[1]
Hello there. I am thinking of restoring a 65 VW Bug, but instead of a factory engine, a fast engine. Possibly for drag racing. I haven't been able to find many engines that will fit without altering the engine position, or shape (the rear hood) of the car. I did find a small Porsche 356 engine that will fit, but it doesn't have enough information speed wise. If anyone know of such an engine or tips, PLEASE post here. Thanks. |
Reven Cordelle
Caldari School of Applied Knowledge
|
Posted - 2008.08.20 08:16:00 -
[2]
The Bug is a classic but its rear engine mounting and distinct lack of space makes it a challenge to actually do anything to. Though you can tune the existing engine.. replacing it is the way to go if you're thinking about drag.
Safe to say thats a challenge too, that little 1300cc Flat 4 huddled away in there is pretty packed in so fitting a larger engine will no doubt take some extensive modification.
I know of a Drag Beetle fitted with a turbocharged 2.3 litre straight 4, and others with the existing flat 4 block bored to 2.5 litre, both capable of a 10 second quarter mile. However both have had massive changes made to the rear end, sometimes just removing it all together.
A lot of the cars have also sacrificed the rear seats to allow for the larger diameter tyres. Since the original beetle was designed for such a placid engine probably putting only 50hp - 60hp out at the best of times, fitting an engine with potentially 300hp could cause some unwanted effects.. like removing the rear axle from the chassis whilst accelerating. Chassis reinforcement and upgraded axles/hubs are a necessity.
Tuning the existing block is still an option but making a small engine quick usually requires a lot of money and a lot of time. Also the relevant experience of tuning engines is a must, and if you don't have that... then be prepared to spend a lot more money on getting someone to do it for you.
You've chosen a fairly decent platform to get on the strip with, what with its rear mounted engine literally right over the wheels, the weight is in the right place. But all of that just makes it harder to actually get an upgraded engine in there.
Im sure there are forums around that will have more extensive advice with people that have pulled off a drag mod on a VW Beetle. As far as my actual hands on mechanical experience goes, thats pretty much just my 96' Ford Mustang GT. A bit different, and a lot easier to modify!
If you pull this project off, You must show it on the forums. Much like that dude who was going to soup up a bus that came on here a while back. |
Grimpak
Gallente Trinity Nova Trinity Nova Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.08.20 08:25:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Grimpak on 20/08/2008 08:27:07
Originally by: Zaar Cobalt Hello there. I am thinking of restoring a 65 VW Bug, but instead of a factory engine, a fast engine. Possibly for drag racing. I haven't been able to find many engines that will fit without altering the engine position, or shape (the rear hood) of the car. I did find a small Porsche 356 engine that will fit, but it doesn't have enough information speed wise. If anyone know of such an engine or tips, PLEASE post here. Thanks.
as above poster said, reinforce the chassis and upgrade the axles.
also, considering that it's a rear mounted, rear drive setup, be on the lookout for oversteering. if anything, strap a few ballast weights on the front to compensate. would make the car heavier, but at least it would be safer to cornering with it. |
Reven Cordelle
Caldari School of Applied Knowledge
|
Posted - 2008.08.20 08:36:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Grimpak Edited by: Grimpak on 20/08/2008 08:27:07
Originally by: Zaar Cobalt Hello there. I am thinking of restoring a 65 VW Bug, but instead of a factory engine, a fast engine. Possibly for drag racing. I haven't been able to find many engines that will fit without altering the engine position, or shape (the rear hood) of the car. I did find a small Porsche 356 engine that will fit, but it doesn't have enough information speed wise. If anyone know of such an engine or tips, PLEASE post here. Thanks.
as above poster said, reinforce the chassis and upgrade the axles.
also, considering that it's a rear mounted, rear drive setup, be on the lookout for oversteering. if anything, strap a few ballast weights on the front to compensate. would make the car heavier, but at least it would be safer to cornering with it.
If its set up for drag, steering isnt really an issue to the point of oversteer. Don't have to steer much on a straight line. Minor corrective tweaks but essentially once its straight, all you have to do is keep it straight.
A valid point if hes going to be racing the thing on the track though. But Drag and Track setups are so vastly different that its unlikely to be a hybrid of both. |
Aaron Zebulun
Amarr I-Ascension-I Burning Horizons
|
Posted - 2008.08.20 11:27:00 -
[5]
The best engine you could easily stick in there is a 2.5l from a newage impreza. They come with like 260-300bph as standard, and it doesnt take a huge ammount of money to get them over 600bph. Just forged internals and a whacking great turbo should do the job, and you'll still get that lovely flat 4 burble we all love |
Verone
Gallente Veto Corp
|
Posted - 2008.08.20 13:59:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Zaar Cobalt Hello there. I am thinking of restoring a 65 VW Bug, but instead of a factory engine, a fast engine. Possibly for drag racing. I haven't been able to find many engines that will fit without altering the engine position, or shape (the rear hood) of the car. I did find a small Porsche 356 engine that will fit, but it doesn't have enough information speed wise. If anyone know of such an engine or tips, PLEASE post here. Thanks.
You need to face facts that if you're looking to swap out engines in pretty much any car for something with significantly more power, you can't get away with it safely without extensive modification to the chassis, subframe, engine mounts, running gear and brakes.
The bug is a strong long lasting frame on which to build, but the reason you haven't been able to find many engines that will fit without altering their position or method of mounting is that in most cases modifications NEED to be made to keep the increase in power safe and viable. You're talking about dropping more power into a car who's running gear and chassis was designed to run on a 1.3/1.4 litre <75bhp air cooled workhorse of a motor, with it's stopping power based around drum brakes in most older models.
You need to take into account what kind of stresses mounting a new block is going to put on the rear end of the car, and then decide on how to mount the new motor safely and in a manner that's not going to cause issues when you need to get to it for maintenance. It's never just as simple as "dropping a motor in" unless you're performing a direct replacement.
|
Cat Funt
|
Posted - 2008.08.20 14:09:00 -
[7]
some stuff here
saw an article where rinspeed had done something similar, but i cant find it |
Lucian Alucard
Caldari Black Vice Industries
|
Posted - 2008.08.20 18:57:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Lucian Alucard on 20/08/2008 19:04:56 First off if you JUST going in a straight line you might as well look into a V6 or V8. As Verone said sad truth is theres few engines that make the power your looking for to be competitive and will fit in a Bug without modifications. And though the Bug is strong as is your going to need to reinforce the thing anyways so gutting the back seat to make room for bigger tires ((which your going to need if you want any form of traction)) and setting the car up as a front engine rear wheel drive car kinda makes sense. Yes there are specialty engine manufacturers that will sell you 3 liter flat-4s that will produce 500 ((or more)) horsepower AT THE CRANKSHAFT, but again those still need mods to increase air flow and they are usually water cooled, so that means mounting a Radiator and runing the hoses. |
Grimpak
Gallente Trinity Nova Trinity Nova Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.08.20 19:03:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Reven Cordelle
Originally by: Grimpak Edited by: Grimpak on 20/08/2008 08:27:07
Originally by: Zaar Cobalt Hello there. I am thinking of restoring a 65 VW Bug, but instead of a factory engine, a fast engine. Possibly for drag racing. I haven't been able to find many engines that will fit without altering the engine position, or shape (the rear hood) of the car. I did find a small Porsche 356 engine that will fit, but it doesn't have enough information speed wise. If anyone know of such an engine or tips, PLEASE post here. Thanks.
as above poster said, reinforce the chassis and upgrade the axles.
also, considering that it's a rear mounted, rear drive setup, be on the lookout for oversteering. if anything, strap a few ballast weights on the front to compensate. would make the car heavier, but at least it would be safer to cornering with it.
If its set up for drag, steering isnt really an issue to the point of oversteer. Don't have to steer much on a straight line. Minor corrective tweaks but essentially once its straight, all you have to do is keep it straight.
A valid point if hes going to be racing the thing on the track though. But Drag and Track setups are so vastly different that its unlikely to be a hybrid of both.
extra care is always good.
if it's for drag, then ok, but if he wants to use it in a more "normal" fashion, I would do something about it.
anyways, reinforcement and even adding dual disk brakes is needed in any case (in the case of being rear-mounted read drive, dual ventilated disks in the rear wheels is a must) |
Pwett
Minmatar QUANT Corp. QUANT Hegemony
|
Posted - 2008.08.20 19:48:00 -
[10]
You can also look for old engines from the Porsche 1955 Speedster, that engine should pop right in there. Of course that engine was just a modified Bug engine anyway, so it's kind of walking in a circle. |
|
Zaar Cobalt
|
Posted - 2008.08.21 07:18:00 -
[11]
Hey, sorry I took so long to reply, I am in the middle of a hurricane, and as soon as I was done typing, I get ready to press that "Post Reply" then.... "What just happened? I can't see anything". Luckly, it wasn't sudden blindness, but the power went out. About a minute later the light flash on and I get ready to start typing again. As soon as I start, I look up from the keyboard, and am comfronted by darkness. A minute later, power is back, and I try agian only to be surrounded by darkness. Having lost hope, I went to bed. Soon, I realised power is back on, still! So, I am typing now, hoping I have better luck. ANYWAY, back to the subject...
Thank you for all of the information. It has been a great help. I have found some information on the Flat-4 engines, but no place to get one, a fast one preferably. I also thought about a Subaru WRX STi engine, seeing as they will fit nicely and have some power in them. But one again, I can't find the acualy engine for sale. I also found several ways to get air to the engine, using chin spoilers. Also, I need an AutoCAD, so if anyone knows a free, good one, please let me know. Once again, thanks for all the information. Also, the reason I can alter the appearence too much is because of this sad story; I had a Baja Bug once. Fast little thing (could have used softer seats though...). But the nieghborhood people mage me sale it because the poor thing "made the culvasack look worse" or something like that. So, I gotta make a normal looking one, or as close as possible. I would also like to drive it around too, so I will need to look in suspension, but that is secondary seeing as we have other cars. |
Pan Crastus
Anti-Metagaming League
|
Posted - 2008.08.21 08:39:00 -
[12]
Perhaps one of those Honda VTEC engines will fit? The 2.0lt variants come with 160 and 220hp and you can probably find some older ones (1.8lt etc.) cheap ...
They seem to be popular with small racing car manufacturers (Ariel Atom etc.).
|
baagpus
Beyond Divinity Inc
|
Posted - 2008.08.21 12:26:00 -
[13]
take a look at a 13b rotary engine from an rx7. I recently stripped mine and once the turbo pack and ancillarys are off its an incredibly compact engine for the power its capable of putting out either N/A or forced induction.
Also a peripheral port engine with an open exhaust sounds ridiculous when revving past 9 grand
theres been a few of these conversions done in the past so there should be some build write ups knocking about |
Zaar Cobalt
|
Posted - 2008.08.21 20:57:00 -
[14]
Originally by: baagpus take a look at a 13b rotary engine from an rx7. I recently stripped mine and once the turbo pack and ancillarys are off its an incredibly compact engine for the power its capable of putting out either N/A or forced induction.
This what your talking about? Thought I would see if there was one on Ebay. Turned out there was a cheap one on there, but wasn't sure if it was what you were talking about. Link: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NEW-S6-RX7-13B-ENGINE-NEW-NOT-REBUILT-NOT-REMAN-NEW-NEW_W0QQitemZ200247501405QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item200247501405&_trkparms=39%3A1%7C65%3A3%7C240%3A1318&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245
|
Zaar Cobalt
|
Posted - 2008.08.21 21:23:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Pan Crastus Perhaps one of those Honda VTEC engines will fit? The 2.0lt variants come with 160 and 220hp and you can probably find some older ones (1.8lt etc.) cheap ...
They seem to be popular with small racing car manufacturers (Ariel Atom etc.).
Ok, found another one, is it this? http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/_Car-Truck-Parts-Accessories__ACURA-HONDA-INTEGRA-DC2-1-8L-GSR-VTEC-DOHC-ENGINE-B18C_W0QQitemZ270266705575QQadnZCarQ20Q26Q20TruckQ20PartsQ20Q26Q20AccessoriesQQadiZ2865QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item270266705575&_trkparms=39%3A1%7C65%3A3%7C240%3A1318&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245
|
Blane Xero
Amarr The Firestorm Cartel
|
Posted - 2008.08.22 00:18:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Zaar Cobalt Link: Linky One Linky 2
Hint, the messy URL Goes inside the {url="yourlinkhere"} and then the text you want to be clickable here and then a {/URL}
Replace {} with [] and your done.
|
Sharupak
Minmatar Brutor tribe
|
Posted - 2008.08.22 00:57:00 -
[17]
If you are going to drag it, then do it all the way. Rip out the back seat and tub it. You should be able stuff something decent in there. TBH though, there are some badass bugs out there that use the regular vw engines. _______________________________________________ RuntimeError: ChainEvent is blocking by design, but you're block trapped. You have'll have to find some alternative means to do Your Thing, dude. |
baagpus
Beyond Divinity Inc
|
Posted - 2008.08.22 11:03:00 -
[18]
Edited by: baagpus on 22/08/2008 11:04:33 Yeah thats a 13b. I did some looking about and found vw site which had a section specifically for rotary conversions among other things which might help ya out
bug forum
someones whos gone down the rotary path
playing with a rotary bug
and purely cos i couldnt resist sharing the aural delights of a pp na 20b
mustard cosmo
anyways good luck with ya project fella
|
Zaar Cobalt
|
Posted - 2008.08.22 23:59:00 -
[19]
Does anyone know where I can get a good 13b Rotary Engine with alot of power?
|
Grimpak
Gallente Trinity Nova Trinity Nova Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.08.23 20:25:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Pan Crastus Perhaps one of those Honda VTEC engines will fit? The 2.0lt variants come with 160 and 220hp and you can probably find some older ones (1.8lt etc.) cheap ...
They seem to be popular with small racing car manufacturers (Ariel Atom etc.).
for Honda engines, I advise the H22A8, wich is the 200hp engine for the 1998 european version of the Honda prelude.
it's a 2.2 line-4 Vtec engine btw. ---
Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
ain't that right. |
|
|
|
|
Pages: [1] :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |