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Davina Braben
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Posted - 2008.08.21 13:12:00 -
[1]
Click any 10 threads in General Disco and I'm sure you'll see people talking about "Risk vs. Reward".
How accurate do people think this is as a factor for what motivates people?
Do you carefully weigh up the pro's and con's of whatever you're doing?
Do you obsessively min-max your playstyle to get optimum results?
Do you think you have an accurate picture of how risky any of the activities you engage in (or might engage in) are?
I was just playing TF2 and I was running around as a scout smacking people in the facebones with my bat giggling inanely. This isn't because Scout is my best class or because the team particularly needed a scout, but rather because I found it funny. This is in a game with a defined victory condition too.
It seems to me that what I'm doing at any given moment in any given computer game is almost entirely down to what I'm finding entertaining.
I don't even know how I'd gauge the risk vs. reward of any of the activities I engage in.
Is it just me? Are the rest of you Economists / Games Theory experts? |
Sheriff Jones
Amarr
Please Enter Password
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Posted - 2008.08.21 13:14:00 -
[2]
I do what i want, where i want, when i want and what happens happens  |
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Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises
Otherworld Empire
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Posted - 2008.08.21 13:16:00 -
[3]
I go to random.org, if the number is between 1-2 I don't do it, if it's 3-n I do it. |
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Letouk Mernel
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Posted - 2008.08.21 13:18:00 -
[4]
The fun of the moment is different from long-term planning, and this game offers fun of the moment, but also definitely encourages you to plan. You have to pick skills and micro-manage training time, and you have to grind for ISK, and those activities lead to thinking about risk vs. reward.
For some people, it's risk vs. fun, because fun is the reward. You get killed too much in lowsec, you don't go there anymore, not because you lost too much ISK, but because it's no fun.
I usually alternate between periods of grinding for ISK and planning ahead, and periods of fun of the moment fights that last as long as I have spare ISK to throw away. |
Ven Li
Perkone
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Posted - 2008.08.21 13:20:00 -
[5]
i do what i want when i want. or on occasion what my corp/alliance has wanted when they wanted. which is the main reason i have 210 skills at 35mil SP |
Ruze
Amarr
No Applicable Corporation
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Posted - 2008.08.21 13:24:00 -
[6]
Fact is, EvE ain't TF2. In EvE, you lose a lot when you die. Some people have to work for a good bit to get some of the nice things in this game. They're often hesitant to lose them so easily.
As video games go, EvE requires a bit too much effort and responsibility to be interesting to a bunch of gamers. For some of us, this is what makes EvE interesting. But it also makes your decisions that much more important.
If you don't care, you don't care. No problem with that. But many people don't like putting in months of work for a character, ironing out those nice ships and getting good skills, just so they can lose out.
'Risk vs. Reward' is often overused, too. And innaccurate. A better diagram would be 'profit vs. time + potential for loss + effort' or some such. Some just don't see the reason of going through so much effort for so little gain, all the while losing what they do have.
If you like running around in T1 frigates/cruisers, if you like blasting at people in FW 'battlegrounds', if you simply enjoy shooting at whatever interests you ... there's obviously enough of you in this game.
Me, personally? I'd rather play BF2 and let my inner child out there. It's more fun, and I don't lose anything in the process of dying. I take my EvE game a bit more serious  |
Viqtoria
Caldari
Groping Hand Social Club
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Posted - 2008.08.21 13:36:00 -
[7]
roll some casino die in a bouncy felt tray. |
Ghengis Tia
Amarr
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Posted - 2008.08.21 13:45:00 -
[8]
I enjoy the challenge to my decision-making skills and the myriad of ways I can get a feeling of accomplishment.
I enjoy seeing the fruition of training skills by having a more powerful ship. I like the problem-solving aspect of Eve and the constant spinning of my brain's inner wheels crafting my next set of moves.
Growing up reading all the science fiction I could lay my hands on, in Eve I feel like I'm in one of those books that transported me from the realities of adolescence and being an awkward teenager.
PvP? Meh. I play the lone wolf style of game and it keeps me interested enough to keep logging in.
Like other posters, I do what I want, when I want. "Fun" is what you make it, I guess. |
Mankirks Wife
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Posted - 2008.08.21 13:48:00 -
[9]
Depends.. my main source of ISK is trading and mining.
But those are kinda boring so lately I've been yarring it up shamelessly as my wallet is in pretty good shape and I can afford to get 100M ISK in ships and equipment blown up every week without really giving a crap. |
Banana Torres
Federal Defence Union
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Posted - 2008.08.21 13:57:00 -
[10]
Of course I weigh up the rewards for doing something against the risk of doing it. This is built in the genes of any animal, it is why predators pick on the weakest.
But unlike Caldary carebears I don't use ISK as my sole means of measuring my reward. If I did then I would be a highsec manufacturer. No risk, high reward.
I always try to fly the best possible ship for a given job. This means min/maxing. All MMOs suffer from this flaw, I have never found one that rewards the taking the middle ground.
Unfortunatly, I don't get the PvP buzz that others get. My concentration level is so high when I am in a battle, making sure that I click on the right option at the right time and having to listen to the FC very carefully that I don't really enjoy it. However the high that I get from winning is worth it.
So I would not engage in PvP beahviour described by the OP because I would get no enjoyment from this and my selfish behaviour would make the win harder.
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Rhatar Khurin
Minmatar
Assisted Suicide Mercenaries
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Posted - 2008.08.21 14:05:00 -
[11]
If in TF2 when you died you had to stop playing for a hour or two everytime because you had to go round picking up your clothes and weapons before you could fight again. Then the comparison might be a better one. |
Doddy
Omega Fleet Enterprises
Executive Outcomes
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Posted - 2008.08.21 14:22:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Doddy on 21/08/2008 14:23:20
 Originally by: Davina Braben
Click any 10 threads in General Disco and I'm sure you'll see people talking about "Risk vs. Reward".
How accurate do people think this is as a factor for what motivates people?
Do you carefully weigh up the pro's and con's of whatever you're doing?
Do you obsessively min-max your playstyle to get optimum results?
Do you think you have an accurate picture of how risky any of the activities you engage in (or might engage in) are?
I was just playing TF2 and I was running around as a scout smacking people in the facebones with my bat giggling inanely. This isn't because Scout is my best class or because the team particularly needed a scout, but rather because I found it funny. This is in a game with a defined victory condition too.
It seems to me that what I'm doing at any given moment in any given computer game is almost entirely down to what I'm finding entertaining.
I don't even know how I'd gauge the risk vs. reward of any of the activities I engage in.
Is it just me? Are the rest of you Economists / Games Theory experts?
Splashing out all your isk on a officer fitted faction bs with pirate implants and assaulting a pirate gatecamp would be fun. There are thousands of people with the isk to do it. Why dont they do so? Because they risk losing it all. You didnt do it so you are analyzing risk vs the reward of having fun. Everyone who is playing is analyzing risk vs reward. Even you while playing your TF2 game are doing so. What did you have to lose?
There are very few people who are willing to throw away the risk vs reward formula, when they do they are generally simultaneously revered and laughed at. (tyraxx losing his impoc in the alliance tournament would be a good example) |
Black Scorpio
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Posted - 2008.08.21 14:33:00 -
[13]
How do i make decisions in EvE? For the moment! |
Gone'Postal
Minmatar
Warped Mining
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Posted - 2008.08.21 14:59:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Chribba
I go to random.org, if the number is between 1-2 I don't do it, if it's 3-n I do it.
Give me your veldnaught.
Roll your randomizer  |
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Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises
Otherworld Empire
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Posted - 2008.08.21 15:48:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Gone'Postal
Originally by: Chribba
I go to random.org, if the number is between 1-2 I don't do it, if it's 3-n I do it.
Give me your veldnaught.
Roll your randomizer
It rolled, 1.23, sorry no Veldnaught for you today |
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Mystic Pete
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Posted - 2008.08.21 16:38:00 -
[16]
When you were playing TF2 you were aware of the fact that as a scout you could have been gunned down before you got in range (risk) to bat someone in the face (reward). It's not about if you calculated that risk but the fact that without the risk; for exapmple your oponents didn't move or fight back then the reward would be hollow.
The same is true of eve. We need a healthy risk vs reward balance so that we can feel a genuine sense of acheivement when we succeed in something we set out to do. |
Fay Valentyne
Gallente
Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2008.08.21 16:47:00 -
[17]
the magic eight ball knows all. |
The Mute
Minmatar
Einherjar Rising
Cry Havoc.
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Posted - 2008.08.21 17:47:00 -
[18]
I carry a D20 with me at all times. When I need to make a decision I roll the die and consult my character sheet. This does not always work since during the last Cry Havoc. cap fight, Mistress was calling primaries and I was rolling against thac0 to hit the other ships. Luckily I made my saving throw when the call was made to cyno out.
 |
Arric Rohr
Gallente
Intergalactic Science LLC
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Posted - 2008.08.21 17:49:00 -
[19]
Poorly. |
Brooks Puuntai
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.08.21 17:51:00 -
[20]
What i do with any major decision in life.. I pick either evens or odds.. Then i ask a random person to pick a number between 1-20... Say if I choose evens and the person i ask says 14 then i do it... I let fate be my guide :0. |
Benny Honna
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Posted - 2008.08.21 18:33:00 -
[21]
Once risks have been identified, they must then be assessed as to their potential severity of loss and to the probability of occurrence. These quantities can be either simple to measure, in the case of the value of a lost building, or impossible to know for sure in the case of the probability of an unlikely event occurring. Therefore, in the assessment process it is critical to make the best educated guesses possible in order to properly prioritize the implementation of the risk management plan.
The fundamental difficulty in risk assessment is determining the rate of occurrence since statistical information is not available on all kinds of past incidents. Furthermore, evaluating the severity of the consequences (impact) is often quite difficult for immaterial assets. Asset valuation is another question that needs to be addressed. Thus, best educated opinions and available statistics are the primary sources of information. Nevertheless, risk assessment should produce such information for the management of the organization that the primary risks are easy to understand and that the risk management decisions may be prioritized. Thus, there have been several theories and attempts to quantify risks. Numerous different risk formulae exist, but perhaps the most widely accepted formula for risk quantification is:
Rate of occurrence multiplied by the impact of the event equals risk
Later research has shown that the financial benefits of risk management are less dependent on the formula used but are more dependent on the frequency and how risk assessment is performed.
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SurrenderMonkey
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Posted - 2008.08.21 18:40:00 -
[22]
Edited by: SurrenderMonkey on 21/08/2008 18:43:53
The whole "Risk/reward" thing is wholly idiotic, tbh.
It was presented as a loose design guideline at some point and every ******* on the forums latched onto it for their personal use in any circumstance when it lends any degree of support, no matter how slight, to whatever argument they're presently making.
Reward is NOT always proportional to the amount of risk involved, neither in game nor in reality. Nor should it be, nor will it ever be.
That said, I generally decide to do something in Eve based on whether or not I think it will be enjoyable, either by way of outright fun (PvP) or because it provides satisfying gains through minimal effort.
---------------
Faction-Militia:Player-Alliance::Newbie-corp:Player-corp |
Rhaegor Stormborn
Pestilent Industries Amalgamated
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Posted - 2008.08.21 18:41:00 -
[23]
What I need & what I want are the main factors, but then if something totally sucks and is very slow and/or boring and/or dangerous then I may not do it, but I guess that depends on how much I need it or want it.
Right now I am running missions for faction standing so I can anchor a high-sec POS. I want and need a high-sec POS for my future plans. There are various ways of obtaining standing to do this. Missions are extremely boring, tedious, and mind numbing, but they will provide me with what I need to obtain my goal and provide me with additional revenue. So I continue to do them.
If I could do FW PvP and kill Amarr Militia to obtain my standings I would do that instead, even though I would not gain ISK, and would be risking losing ISK everytime.
Rhaegor Stormborn
Fleet Admiral - Pestilent Industries Amalgamated |
Admiral Pelleon
Caldari
White Shadow Imperium
Burning Horizons
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Posted - 2008.08.21 18:44:00 -
[24]
If the choice will make the game more enjoyable at that time, I will do it.
________
My views represent the views of my corp, deal with it. |
Helios III
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Posted - 2008.08.21 18:59:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Davina Braben
General Disco
General Disco? He sounds like a fun guy, where can I meet him?
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Gone'Postal
Minmatar
Warped Mining
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Posted - 2008.08.21 19:07:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Chribba
Originally by: Gone'Postal
Originally by: Chribba
I go to random.org, if the number is between 1-2 I don't do it, if it's 3-n I do it.
Give me your veldnaught.
Roll your randomizer
It rolled, 1.23, sorry no Veldnaught for you today
I Never Win 
Boost SISI VOTE NOW! |
Billy Sastard
Amarr
Life. Universe. Everything.
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Posted - 2008.08.21 19:17:00 -
[27]
How I make decisions in EVE:
The 8-Ball, baby!
-=^=-
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K'hronos
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Posted - 2008.08.21 19:20:00 -
[28]
I think peoples who likes to take risk are just mad that people who play in "complete" safety can advance as fast as they do.
In a way they are right...
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