EVE Search - Why we need a SIGNIFICANT nerf on lvl4s in hisec.

Check My IP Information

All Channels

EVE General Discussion

Why we need a SIGNIFICANT nerf on lvl4s in hisec.

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]


Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 1 post(s)
Strom Kryos Gallente	Posted - 2008.08.31 01:49:00 - [1] I keep waiting for this thread to die..its absolute crap. Nerf posting by those that are completely ignorant. A long time ago in a place .. well not so far away... Lvl 4 mission runners were ultra rich !!! Amoung many various nerfs.. Drops went from cool I might get a drop or 2 a mission thats worth some isk, to omg whats with all this crap, to wtf now theres tII flooded cheap and I am lucky to get 1 halfways decent drop a month that some noob might buy cause he cant use tII. Recycle.. might get enough to build a bs in a month.. wow thats so over balanced good thing you dont target miners for nerf.. cause they make isk in high sec too. Raven.. the main mission runners tool Nerf the torps hard.. missions now take a good 30% longer. Mission rewards go down in price.. again, omg this sucks now getting 1/4 of what it used to be. Wait.. here comes something to help.. salvage OMG now not only can someone come in and clean out your salvage but they take your loot too.. no evemail.. no warning message.. nothing. Now youve just lost half the isk that running the mission was worth, that was put in place to unnerf the nerfs in place to make it worth running lvl4 missions again. Im not saying some nerfs were not needed, but omg.. lets start nerfing the game by player base.. anyone that shoots another player looses use of a high slot for a month each time they shoot someone. Thats how ridiculous this thread is. The next time someone wants to do a .. OMG IM A NOOB AND CANT DO WHAT I WANT BECAUSE OF HOW OTHERS PLAY Go do what they do for at least a month and understand what your saying. I mean.. do you see Burger King go to the city council and say Nerf McDonalds cause they sell more burgers than us.
Strom Kryos Gallente	Posted - 2008.08.31 02:16:00 - [2] 1 a: destitute of knowledge or education <an ignorant society>; also : lacking knowledge or comprehension of the thing specified <parents ignorant of modern mathematics> b: resulting from or showing lack of knowledge or intelligence. I think the relevance of my knowledge shows in my previous post. Thanks for enforcing my point.
Strom Kryos Gallente	Posted - 2008.08.31 12:24:00 - [3] Originally by: Karii Ildarian After careful consideration of this issue, I now believe that the greatest beneficiary of the proposed "adjustment", will be ISK farmers and Sellers. I can absolutely 100% agree with that. Mission runners have been nerfed beyond the limit, and I do belive should be left alone at this time. The only thing to compare RISK vs REWARD is shooting npcs in 0.0. Anything else is in a different classification where you need to take time into the equation. If you know how to chain spawns correctly there is no way you are going to make less isk shooting rats in 0.0 + the loot is better/chance of running into an officer spawn. I will say a nerf/change which in is needed was removing npcs from scanner really hurt retting out the the officer spawns. Thats the biggest hit to 0.0 ratters. I've done my share of everything except pirating in EVE, and listened to the gripes of friends that got bored with Eve and went on to pirating, so have a close 2nd hand story to that way of life. Lets put some numbers down .. some realistic ones, and if you want to disagree find some pics to put up with it, I'd be happy to do so once I get home as, I'm out of town with laptop with a crappy vidcard. The one and only thing I can see with anytype of nerf towards mission runners is to possibly limit the number of missions you can have at a time. I think running a mission and not completing it to run it again the next day and so forth up until the exipration is cheap, and in my view an exploit. This could possible help with isk farmers. As a solo player-paying for 1 account in optimum conditions- 0.0 chaining 3 1.8 mil bs every 10 mins = 30 mil per hour + loot, cant really salvage very well when chaining solo.. and stay safe. Mission running lvl 4 missions most thinking worlds collide as one of the best missions..not that you get it back to back but saying even if. @ 1 time it was about 30 mil in bounties, a bit less now but not sure of exact ammount. takes about 1 1/2 hours plus another 30 mins for loot and salvage time. So in 2 hours with 1 of the most wanted missions to pop up from your agent about 48 mil, thats includeing bounties, reward, loot, and salvage. So @ 24 mil isk per hour. Now .. a more realistic view Ratting easy enough to find a 1.5 mil triple spawn bs, if you manage to clear them out,easy enough to find another spawn to chain. So say you manage to take out 5 spawns per hour, 22.5 mil an hour + loot. Mission running, most missions take 1 1/2 - 2 hours if you loot and salvage. I need to check my logs.. been couple months since I did some serious running, but a good close estimate varying from missions being given 5-15 mil per hour + loot and salvage. And then theres the #1 reason why nerfing lvl 4 missions is a big fail. Hmm lets see move lvl 4 missions in low sec.. I could rat in 0.0 and make more isk OR I could run lvl 4 mission in low sec for much higher risk and make less isk. Yup thats going to go very well. You wont find a single soul that going to run missions solo with a decent ship in low sec.. your asking to get ganked and would have to be a complete idiot. For that matter it's possible to get ganked in highsec if your not careful, if your useing expensive mods.. until the patch anyway. Thats not just my view thats the way it is, I've done enough of both to know. I would really wish theyd bring back npcs or at least officers to the scanner.. or perhaps have officers show up in exploration/plexes. That's the only thing I would like to see change, 0.0 wise. And perhaps limiting the number of mission you can have active.
Strom Kryos Gallente	Posted - 2008.08.31 12:48:00 - [4] Post your proof I will within 48 hrs.. I'd pay to see what you say.
Strom Kryos Gallente	Posted - 2008.08.31 13:59:00 - [5] Thinking ss of wallet showing said isk per hour. I dont have access to mine.. hmm maybe ill export wallet. Either way I only have info showing what I made awhile back while I was waiting to jc back to 0.0, think 1 of the missions was Worlds Collide. Without proof this subject is never going to die. Theres too many people that havnt done things long enough to know how to maximize their time and thus get actual isk-isk ratio. So they get good at missions and suck at 0.0 ratting or vice versa and dont have a good idea of comparasim. I've done both for over a year straight. Unfortunately most of my 0.0 ratting was done before rats were taken off scanner but I didnt have much difficulty when I was ratting without .. course my time I get on is the less populated time on the server. Which may skew what can be done vs whats available. :/ I've been too busy in cov ops and running cat and mouse in 0.0 to do any ratting, also preventing from running missions.
Strom Kryos Gallente	Posted - 2008.08.31 15:03:00 - [6] Rest assured I've been ratting and running missions longer than that, I've been playing since the record number of users logged in was under 7500. But yeah ccp has the real numbers.. its why missions have stayed where they are and been non nerfed for quite some time. If anything they are boosting missions.. lvl 5 mission, more missions in general, faction warfare ect. Trust me missions used to be more lucrative. The main issue that I can see that throws off the values.. theres more people in eve.. it causes large blobs, fighting over whose belt is whose to rat, system is whose to mine. So yeah in that aspect running missions isnt affected the same. So to keep up the status quo.. can make more isk ratting..but due to too many other players at certain time frames is not possible. Maybe ccp needs to split the server.. or double the size of the eve galaxy. I have done plenty to know how things work listend to others that have done it longer and found the best way to .. have a pos or can in the system your looting.. didnt have pos when I started ratting.. makes things much easier. There are better and faster ways to make isk than running missions and ratting. All I have to say is if someone is going to come here and say .. your a liar you can only make x ammount of isk and hour.. then show your damn proof. Cause thats what your doing.. I can assure you I've obtained the numbers I said I have .. it's been a good 8 months since Ive had the chance to rat in 0.0 thanks to rl and then I get back into eve and theres war in 0.0. So if things have changed for ratting in the past 8 months.. the actual numbers are possible upon a few things.. mostly popluation of the system you rat in. I'm usually on after most of Europe is in bed sleeping so don't have that issue. But that means the issue isnt that you can make more doing missions.. its that you cant make as much ratting due to popluation in the system you rat in. As far as going over the isk per hour running missions sure you may get a few good missions back to back.. but then its crap missions and it avgs out much lower than what some people say it is.
Strom Kryos Gallente	Posted - 2008.08.31 17:21:00 - [7] Edited by: Strom Kryos on 31/08/2008 17:23:37 That is absolute truth, at which point something would need to be done to balance it if changes are made. Thats not really nerfing missions, its a total revamp of the whole idea of missions. Agents would need to be created and spread across all of empire to balance it and each agent assigns x ammount of missions.. but then your run into .. what about the players who get online late at night.. so then you have to go as far as assign x ammount of missions per hour.. and if the next agent thats available is 20 jumps aways well that makes the game perfect for anyone that wants to play that aspect. Then theres the rper that has perfect standings with each agent and corp of the whole faction who logs in and cant get a mission to run. As the idea that missions should somehow be in a competitve state.. which also means you would need to increase the value as your increaseing the work it would take to even get a mission. Then your faced if you want it changed you run into as big of an issue as trying to fix lag in blob warfare. I think a whole new thread should be created with a discussion headed in the right direction and get rid of all the posts that have no basis towards the actual issue.
Strom Kryos Gallente	Posted - 2008.08.31 21:17:00 - [8] Originally by: Ruze but I can point out that you are wrong in your assumptions about the motives behind this thread, and that you are in fact doing nothing more than trying to derail the argument. So, being you feel so strongly what are your motives that make your opinion valid. Give me and anyone else thats been around that know how this actually affects the game a reason to take your request seriously. So far I've only seen 1 argument.. because its not competative profession like the rest of eve. I can agree with that.
Strom Kryos Gallente	Posted - 2008.08.31 21:41:00 - [9] Originally by: Kahega Amielden Quote: So far I've only seen 1 argument.. because its not competative profession like the rest of eve. I can agree with that. How about the fact that it nullifies the point of even being in lowsec/0.0? The official EVE website says that the richest people in any given profession inhabit the lower sec statuses, low sec status is CLEARLY supposed to be a place where people compete over limited resources that vastly outstrip hisec. That's why DED complexes in lowsec/0.0 are better, that's why the ores in 0.0 are better. Yeah the mods from running an plex in 0.0 split with 5-10 of your corp mates in 0.0 net over 1 bil isk. Most definitly more than you get running lvl 4 missions. Less time for that matter.
Strom Kryos Gallente	Posted - 2008.08.31 21:55:00 - [10] Originally by: Ruze Personally, I've spent the last several months in hisec, doing nothing but missions. Before that, I had taken an involuntary leave from the game for over a year. So when I came back, I obviously noticed some differences. New ships, new skills, new things to learn. But one of the huge differences I noticed was in my first adventure back into losec. 'Way back when', I used to live with my previous corporation in losec. It was probably the best time I had in EvE (we later moved into nulsec, and I didn't like it so much ... no missions ). And yet, losec was empty. I figure, 'things change', but I wondered why they changed, and started reading up on the forums, asking around, yadda, yadda. I'd also noticed that the profit gained from me doing hisec missions was much higher. And that there were a BUNCH of players in hisec. And being the type of person I am, I asked around. Local chat, private convos, that sort of thing. Now, is there a problem? For me, it's personal (i.e. can be fixed on my side). I don't like nulsec, and I find hisec boring and overcrowded. Players post about lag. Players complain about market. Players complain about all kinds of stuff, some legit, and some bullsh*t, by my opinion. I listed a lot of the complaints up above, including the old feeling of 'natural progression' from hisec to nulsec. And the lag that grows exponentially with each new player in a system. And the market imbalance from grinding missions and selling LP items and loot. And the mineral imbalance of losec over veldspar, or reprocessed 'junk' loot. And the lack of significant setbacks with each ship loss, further causing the stagnant nature of nulsec and boosting losec piracy. No one suggestion wins them all, and many cause more problems. Like moving all 'insert level here' missions to losec, etc, etc. And many support specific ones for personal agendas, like wanting LP to be rewarded only in losec, inflating the cost of faction items again. But at least suggestions and reasonings have been proposed. It's just cutting through all the forum PvP here, like a particular poster above participates in. Thats a discussion I can go with.. 0.0 depending on where your at can be a bit rough.. nano gangs have caused a great many players to head to hi sec. Then theres the whole invention drive.. everyone was after decryptors in hi sec. I've been in a few alliances where there are times you dont go out.. the other 80 players are logged in but afk at a station.. players during that time are driven to hi sec for isk. Now with invention its better to have your own/corp pos and run it in 0.0 Eve is continuing to grow and the fun times are gone.. its too overcrowded. The 0.0 belt you used to go and rat all by yourself or w a corp mate or 2.. hard to find unless your on at the right time. Long gone are the 1 vs 1/small gang fights while traveling in 0.0 :( the small gang warfare only exist when eu go to sleep and its usually nanos so its usally a waste of time. If thats what your missing from when you left your not alone. Moving or altering lvl 4 missions wont change 0.0.. it'll just be 1 more thing players dont do.

Strom Kryos Gallente	Posted - 2008.08.31 21:59:00 - [11] If your after missions in low sec then do lvl 5.. they are there. Why change lvl4 missions when there are better missions already where you want them?
Strom Kryos Gallente	Posted - 2008.09.01 02:28:00 - [12] Edited by: Strom Kryos on 01/09/2008 02:33:35 While I dont agree with everything you have to say, I respect that your backing it up with more than a non substancial reasons, I just wanted to point out a few things. Especially in the longer threads.. there will always be those without a head on their shoulders. I know it's hard when they call you out like a teenager not to defend yourself, I generally ignore them or at most keep the replies short, ask them to reread the post or provide something to the conversation to get their reasoning for even posting in the first place. I realize things are different than they were before and low sec is going to go under a bigger change when ccp rolls out the low sec type monarch or some such and some items touched in this Dev Blog But one thing that will never change is the time wasted replying to those who cant communicate in a mature fashion. I'm sure the devs are more likly to dismiss posts like that also. Repling to those posts, your not going to get them to accept or respect your view and your just going to get more frustrated. That was for Ruze .. I hate to see someone bother with extra frustration. Seen some rather childish stuff in this thread but he's kept pointing out his thoughts instead of calling names back.. for the most part:p
Strom Kryos Gallente	Posted - 2008.09.01 13:51:00 - [13] Lp store didnt nerf anything. It caused all the big ticket item to flood the market.. hence getting the navy bs and making 700 mil isk for months of endless lvl4 missions, now your lucky if you can sc**** 100 mil off it. Thats where others are complaining about it being nerfed. I feel its only a matter of time before everything on the lp store is completely flooded. I think the lp store should.. dare I say ROTATE stock month to month taking the items that have been accepted the most and making them unavailable for a month.
Strom Kryos Gallente	Posted - 2008.09.02 02:52:00 - [14] Something to keep in mind.. Lvl4 missions have always been compared to 0.0 ratting.. once the officer spawns.. which by far could out isk lvl4 missions.. where no longer something scanned down.. here come the plexes. Lvl 4 missions in no way compare to the plexes. Also the hi sec plexes are a laugh compared to 0.0. I've know plenty in 0.0 to pull in over a bil a week due to plexing on regular basis. Sure you have a few guys exploring for them.. but you dont solo 0.0. The whole risk vs reward is a bit more complex than lvl4 vs what can be done in 0.0. Where as if your comparing lvl4 low sec - hi sec that is a straight up comparism.
Strom Kryos Gallente	Posted - 2008.09.02 02:59:00 - [15] To even further the argument.. can you mine dyposim (sp) in hi sec. Talk about risk vs reward. So much more isk to be made in 0.0 than silly lvl4 missions. Again 0.0 is not a solo income. So why compare lvl4 missions with items in 0.0 when your trying to fill in a substitue for something in 0.0 that has no straight up comparism. Ratting in 0.0 is by far better than ratting in hi sec.. theres your ratting comparism.. not lvl4 missions. The only thing lvl4 missions can be compared to and even looked at for changes is from hi sec to low sec. And low sec has lvl5 missions.
Strom Kryos Gallente	Posted - 2008.09.02 03:12:00 - [16] No its not even the top hi sec income.. if you think someone is making too much isk doing lvl4 missions.. think again. .. Now what you want to nerf invention and tII production.. how bout Marauder production. I mean if you really want to nerf the #1 item that gives the biggest risk vs reward.. its by far production. Solo hi sec production is the biggest isk maker for a solo person that finds the right things to build with the right skills and right bpcs/bpos. So if somebody wants to nerf the carebares.. there you go.. nerf production.. lvl4 missions are just a past time for those raking in the isk producing just the right items. Where as if someone has an issues with lvl4 missions in hi sec vs low sec then keep up the discussion as theres an actual debate with solid ground.
Strom Kryos Gallente	Posted - 2008.09.02 03:20:00 - [17] Edited by: Strom Kryos on 02/09/2008 03:22:27 And there Ruze has it all laid out.. I still dont know of any true 0.0 mission areas.. but the last time I bothered to look was years ago.. due to the fact the stations in 0.0 are player owned.. not npc therefore assume no npc agents. I know there a couple areas on the fringe of 0.0 I thought those were all -.3 to -.1 systems. Either way the debate should be as Ruze just posted.. each item to its actual counterpart. bah.. those should be .3 to .1 :P
Strom Kryos Gallente	Posted - 2008.09.02 03:25:00 - [18] Heh.. enough to know I dont go to 0.0 for mission.. I go there for pvp like the thousands of other players :)
Strom Kryos Gallente	Posted - 2008.09.02 03:35:00 - [19] Sure enough I stand corrected there are around 4 regions with npc stations. But the rest of my argument is rock solid. Again missions in 0.0 not my cup of tea.. never really looked into it. None the less something on the table .. lvl4 missions hi sec low sec null sec Not lvl4 missions vs 0.0 ratting
Strom Kryos Gallente	Posted - 2008.09.02 03:39:00 - [20] Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: Strom Kryos Heh.. enough to know I dont go to 0.0 for mission.. I go there for pvp like the thousands of other players :) But you make your ISK in hi-sec? I can asure you the only thing lvl4 missions did for me was give me start up isk to make isk.

Strom Kryos Gallente	Posted - 2008.09.02 03:52:00 - [21] Originally by: Ruze Originally by: Strom Kryos Heh.. enough to know I dont go to 0.0 for mission.. I go there for pvp like the thousands of other players :) I really do wish more players would stop treating EvE like it's 'over there for PvP'. Oh, I know that this is the norm in the MMO world at the moment, and they just can't expect any different. But really, I would hazard to guess that the vast majority of nulsec residents LIVE there, and more than half are carebears by trade. Industrialists and NPC specialists. Maybe players wouldn't have such a hard time with the concept if they could get out of the 'consensual PvP' rut and look at the true depth of EvE's interaction. But wishing doesn't change anything. It just alienates those who disagree with you, and want EvE to be something familiar and 'normal.' Players who would prefer EvE copy this and that (each person having a different definition of what 'this' or 'that' should be), while not enjoying EvE for what it is. I can see what you mean by that.. But due to the way other players deem to play as well within their rights.. True 0.0 where players can carve a piece of space for themselves. Nap- group of alliances for stronger defense and stable enviornment Alliance- group of corps for stronger defense and stable enviornment Corp- group of players out to make isk together Player- the drone of 0.0 defend shoot kill, make isk with corp and share the wealth. Obviously some deviation on that depending on corp/alliance.. but ultimately the player has to be willing to be there to pew pew. If not wanting to defend territory than the only place in 0.0 would be the npc areas, where you still have to be willing to be part of the local community for safty. Thus 0.0 is not a place for those who want to be solo.

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online, the EVE logo, EVE and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to EVE-Search.com to use EVE Online and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, EVE-Search.com. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.