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Seara Arrodan
Caldari
Honourable East India Company
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Posted - 2008.08.24 03:59:00 -
[1]
Managing corporate income is of vital importance to the long-term survival of any corporation. Eve gives this ability to Missioning and PvP corporations in the form of the corporate tax. The tax is automatically levied on any bounty over I believe 30,000 ISK and any mission reward. Life for the Mining Industry Corporation CEO is far from this easy as this tax is not levied on any sale of items. This causes the CEO to rely on the honor system which ultimately fails as members forget to pay the tax, make math errors, or just plain avoid the tax by design which forces the CEO to make big lists and spread sheets of who mined when and for howling and how much to ensure proper payment. Such micromanaging prevents corporations from spreading out to other regions or if key people are not on-line more or less shut down. My question is why does the CEO not have the option to levy a sales tax? Why is the corp. tax not automatically applied to sales of goods?
CEO Honourable East India Company
The superior pilot uses his superior reasoning to avoid situations where he will be required to use his superior skills.
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Jonathan Priest
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Posted - 2008.08.24 05:27:00 -
[2]
It would be the end of any manufacturing and trading in your corp. People could also just move there ore to alts and sell from there, so you wouldn't be any further ahead.
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Troyd23
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Posted - 2008.08.24 05:34:00 -
[3]
would kill profit margins for people who trade for a living. Sometimes 10% profit is all i can muster.
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Internet Knight
The Knighthawks
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Posted - 2008.08.24 05:50:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: Seara Arrodan
Why is the corp. tax not automatically applied to sales of goods?
Because of friggin' whiners like the following:
Originally by: Jonathan Priest
It would be the end of any manufacturing and trading in your corp. People could also just move there ore to alts and sell from there, so you wouldn't be any further ahead.
It would *not* be the end of any manufacturing and trading. Those professions would adapt just as a nerf to PVP would adapt.
And having out-of-corp alts would not be a new thing.
Originally by: Troyd23
would kill profit margins for people who trade for a living. Sometimes 10% profit is all i can muster.
Too bad. Look for better profit items, or branch out and diversify into other professions too. It's not like trading encompassess years, or even many months, of skills into it.
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Mikal Drey
Minmatar
ORIGIN SYSTEMS
Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2008.08.24 07:08:00 -
[5]
hey hey
i would say that you should simply switch to a different system within your corp. give your members new roles and allow them to sell directly for corp. All sales would then go directly into the corp wallet. although it still relies on the honour system its already within the current games mechanics.
If you cant trust your members to sell corp related items into the corp wallet then you should review those members to be frank.
With a corp sales tax it would be exceptionally hard to distinguish between a player selling something for himself and something which is deemed to be corp property. With your system a CEO could set the corp tax to 100% and effectivly cuts of a players income.
You should also remember that trust and the honour systems works both ways and a CEO is just as unreliable to sort payments out to members etc. He also can have exclusive access to the wallet and his mining crews can often appear to be no more than slaves for his slush fund
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Kepakh
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Posted - 2008.08.24 09:13:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Seara Arrodan
Managing corporate income is of vital importance to the long-term survival of any corporation. Eve gives this ability to Missioning and PvP corporations in the form of the corporate tax. The tax is automatically levied on any bounty over I believe 30,000 ISK and any mission reward. Life for the Mining Industry Corporation CEO is far from this easy as this tax is not levied on any sale of items. This causes the CEO to rely on the honor system which ultimately fails as members forget to pay the tax, make math errors, or just plain avoid the tax by design which forces the CEO to make big lists and spread sheets of who mined when and for howling and how much to ensure proper payment. Such micromanaging prevents corporations from spreading out to other regions or if key people are not on-line more or less shut down. My question is why does the CEO not have the option to levy a sales tax? Why is the corp. tax not automatically applied to sales of goods?
The reason is very simple.
You have 2 different ways to gain your income:
1) create ISK - bounties, missions, selling loot, minerals etc.
2) margins - manufacturing, research, trading, refining etc.
Since the difference in making and creating ISK is there(also 2nd option is skill dependent), therefore no any sale tax can be applied ever.
One Carebear to rule them all, One Carebear to find them, One Carebear to bring them all and in the web range bind them. |
Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.08.24 10:41:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Seara Arrodan
Managing corporate income is of vital importance to the long-term survival of any corporation. Eve gives this ability to Missioning and PvP corporations in the form of the corporate tax. The tax is automatically levied on any bounty over I believe 30,000 ISK and any mission reward. Life for the Mining Industry Corporation CEO is far from this easy as this tax is not levied on any sale of items. This causes the CEO to rely on the honor system which ultimately fails as members forget to pay the tax, make math errors, or just plain avoid the tax by design which forces the CEO to make big lists and spread sheets of who mined when and for howling and how much to ensure proper payment. Such micromanaging prevents corporations from spreading out to other regions or if key people are not on-line more or less shut down. My question is why does the CEO not have the option to levy a sales tax? Why is the corp. tax not automatically applied to sales of goods?
Very simple.
Are you willing to pay the same percentage on purchases done by the players?
If I buy a ship for 100 millions and sell it a 110 you should tax the gain (like you tax the gain from bounties) not the total sale price. if you tax the sale 10% the above mentioned sale will be at a loss 110 sale price-10% tax = 99 millions.
If you use the same tax (10% each for sales and bounty income) a NPCer lose 10% of his income (both from selling loot and the bounties, the production cost for him was the ammunition expended essentially) while you will tax the trader on his purchase price and his gain.
A system where the corp refund the sale tax on purchases in reality will not work as 1 unscrupulous player can make the whole corp broke in no time.
A possible solution would be a different tax with different % for the sales and a CEO with the knowledge to impose a way lower tax.
Naturally at this point you would want a tax on contract sales and whatever other thing you can think of, while I, the corp member, will want to leave as fast as possible.
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Mika Meroko
Minmatar
Crayon Posting Inc
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Posted - 2008.08.24 21:14:00 -
[8]
bad idea...for you...
manufacturers/traders usually life on razor thin margins...
force them to tax those thin margins, and they just leave your corp/give you the middle finger...
so, yeah ... this is eve we talking about.... you wont get those money unless they want to give it to ya...(but then, why are they playing? if they are just a slave who give everything they gain to others..)
yeah, if there is an incentive to not be in a corp, it will be that taxing everything mandatory, I guess thats why CCP made it so it doesn't FEEL suffocating ... XD
and to the guy who say find a better item: seriously, do you even do any high volume, high turn over trading?
I make more money selling manufactured, high volume, high turn over stuff than than odd "rare" item which sells 2 pieces a month for 15 mill....granted, my cost goes up too with manufacturing and having to stick with that 10%.
Originally by: CCP Atropos
I pod people because there's money to be made in selling tears.
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Khraunus
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Posted - 2008.08.24 21:37:00 -
[9]
Crossposting is bad, mmkay?
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=853849
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Grarr Dexx
Amarr
Ministry of War
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Posted - 2008.08.24 22:59:00 -
[10]
You're the CEO, work it out. Nobody ever said it was going to be easy laid-back ISK flow.
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Jonathan Priest
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Posted - 2008.08.25 06:17:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Jonathan Priest on 25/08/2008 06:17:49
Originally by: Internet Knight
It would *not* be the end of any manufacturing and trading. Those professions would adapt just as a nerf to PVP would adapt.
And having out-of-corp alts would not be a new thing.
The profit from manufacturing and trading is only a small part of the isk involved, so a 5% or 10% tax of the gross income could easily be a 100% or greater tax of the net income. To make it work you'd have to come up with some way of determining how much isk the player actually made from the sale (not the total value of the sale) and tax that. I can't see how a system could do this automatically.
As for the alts, my point was that if your miners/manufacturers were cheating you before, this wouldn't change anything.
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Hugh Ruka
Exploratio et Industria Morispatia
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Posted - 2008.08.25 07:40:00 -
[12]
I think it would be a great idea to implement a list of taxed transactions with independent taxes on any single one. This would make fair government of the corp transactions possible.
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