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Low Sec and Security Status Penalties for PVP

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dark876	Posted - 2008.08.24 04:06:00 - [1] Edited by: dark876 on 24/08/2008 04:06:27 So i was engaging in this dangerous activity called thinking ... and started contemplating for the reasons that we have security status penalty in game. To me it does not seem fair that low sec pvpers get penalized by the game for engaging in their favorite ingame activity. Half the EVE universe is cut off for them after they shoot up a few players who willingly took the risk of either pvping or flying through low sec and agreed to consequences by clicking OK to the warning message that pops up before you enter low sec. Look at it this way... A miner mines out 20 asteroid belts. Does the game close down half the EVE universe for him until he kills XXX amount of battleship rats? A producer makes 50 Rokhs. Does the game close down half the EVE universe for him until he kills XXX amount of battleships rats? A mission runner runs 60 missions. Does the game close down half the EVE universe for him until he mines out XXX asteroid belts? A lot of us pirates out there do not like killing NPCs. This is a boring no-brainer activity that the game forces us to do if we ever want to enter those couple thousand high sec systems again in a ship. To purchase supplies you either end up paying more or getting an alt that can haul and fly battleships (read second account). So my question is, why don't those other EVE professions get some sort of a penalty for engaging in their favorite activities in game while low sec pirates do? Why aren't they forced to spend days even weeks, if you are a casual player, engaging in boring after they engage a bit in their favorite activity or half the EVE universe would close down for them? Why aren't they made to pay more ISK or get alts and second accounts to support themselves having fun in EVE? Another point. Security status penalty discourages people from trying out pvp. I have been a member of some pirate wannabe corps and heard many times our newer players say that they cannot participate in ops because they are at -4 or whatever and they now have to spend several weeks grinding level 3 missions (since new guys can't run lvl 4's) because they are unwilling to go to -10 and think that they would not be able to support the lifestyle this will demand of them. Some of them end up joining high sec racketeer wardec corps and hounding YOUR carebears players CCP. All because you put a barrier for them to pvp in low sec. As for wearing your sec status as an honor badge, one can easily envision some sort of other measure of how many ships you ganked that wouldn't close off high sec to you forever and ever until you kill 200+ NPC battleships. discuss, flame, etc.
Tortun Nahme Minmatar Umbra Synergy Final Retribution Alliance	Posted - 2008.08.24 04:08:00 - [2] no one else gets penalized because they aren't commiting crimes maybe? just because it's a legit playstyle doesn't mean you get to have your cake and eat it too Applebabe ate my signature :( but the fish hat forgives! Nemotology is the EvE religion of choice!
dark876	Posted - 2008.08.24 04:16:00 - [3] Edited by: dark876 on 24/08/2008 04:20:18 Edited by: dark876 on 24/08/2008 04:16:45 Originally by: Tortun Nahme no one else gets penalized because they aren't commiting crimes maybe? just because it's a legit playstyle doesn't mean you get to have your cake and eat it too you speak as a role player (killing other players is crime only in role play sense) so does it make sense to you that we can pay off police to commit same kinds of crimes without any penalties? is it more of a crime to wardec newbie corps or kill players who have willingly entered a pvp-zone? majority of targets in low sec are other pirates, so why is it a crime for pirates to kill other pirates? alternatively if you are an anti-pirate and kill a pirate, why do you get treated as a criminal too?
Tortun Nahme Minmatar Umbra Synergy Final Retribution Alliance	Posted - 2008.08.24 04:21:00 - [4] has nothing to do with roleplaying, it is a crime to violence someones boat without paying concord, thats the way the law works in EvE you want to violence boats with no penalty, you either pay the man, or you come out to 0.0, suck it up buttercup, we have a bubble for you Applebabe ate my signature :( but the fish hat forgives! Nemotology is the EvE religion of choice!
Khemul Zula Amarr Black Plague. RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.08.24 04:22:00 - [5] The simple (and RP reasons) are, you are committing crimes in civilized space. The police force of civilized space must respond and does so by marking you as a criminal. From a practical standpoint it is to make low-sec...well...low-sec. If you don't get a penalty for randomly killing people then it's just 0.0 with no npc station and gate guns. As for your examples, they are too stupid to take seriously and I'll just assume they were presented as a joke. Anyways...I thought the whole negative security status thing was what made pirates, pirates. I mean without the blinky red and inability to enter empire you really arn't a big mean pirate. "Everytime you mine Veldspar God kills a kitten."
dark876	Posted - 2008.08.24 04:27:00 - [6] ok so we got two posts that state this is right/fair because this is the way the game is and i say the way the game is wrt this issue is no good and needs to be changed moving on ...
Tortun Nahme Minmatar Umbra Synergy Final Retribution Alliance	Posted - 2008.08.24 04:28:00 - [7] so 2 to 1, majority rules, and this thread is now about the fish hat Forum Piracy, I lurve it Applebabe ate my signature :( but the fish hat forgives! Nemotology is the EvE religion of choice!
Galan Amarias Amarr The Drekla Consortium	Posted - 2008.08.24 04:28:00 - [8] Originally by: dark876 you speak as a role player (killing other players is crime only in role play sense) so does it make sense to you that we can pay off police to commit same kinds of crimes without any penalties? .... and, is it more of a crime to wardec newbie corps or kill players who have willingly entered a pvp-zone? Actually the crime is a game mechanic. You must have noticed the "Global Criminal Flag" when you blast someone. The reason we get to have to rat is that we're admiting that in the game we're the bad guys and we have to accept the consequences of that action. Neg Sec or having to Rat. Neg sec isn't crippeling, just annoying. Also note that the pirate is engaging other players. I think of it as a public service, being the bad guy, but if your are going to be the bad guy you have to suck up the penalties. If you can't stand ratting live -10. If you can take the ratting, you can bring the sec up pretty quick with low effort and moderate fun by doing your ratting in something disposable in someone elses' 0.0. If you stick to a no pods diet it's a minor sec hit anyway, especially if the target shoots back. Finally, read the dev blogs, sec hits in low sec are getting reduced. As are sec hits for people with a high standing vs lower. So put the effort in once, get to +5 and then it's easy maintance sec gain from there out. -Galan CSM fails nano
Khemul Zula Amarr Black Plague. RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.08.24 04:35:00 - [9] Originally by: dark876 ok so we got two posts that state this is right/fair because this is the way the game is and i say the way the game is wrt this issue is no good and needs to be changed moving on ... Well to be honest, if low-sec were the way you want it to be then there'd just be some other person here complaining about the lack of penalties for low-sec piracy suggesting the game be changed to the way it currently is. So based on that I think it is logical to assume that there is a alternate universe somewhere out there where this is actually the way the game functions. Find a way to get to it and your problem is solved. "Everytime you mine Veldspar God kills a kitten."
F'nog Amarr Celestial Horizon Corp. Celestial Industrial Alliance	Posted - 2008.08.24 04:55:00 - [10] TBH this is a broken game mechanic, or more correctly an outdated one. In the beginning, there was supposed to be a difference between - and + sec. Now it's just how much status you lose for committing a crime, and how many crimes you can commit before being KOS. But I hope that the new changes will begin to address this so that high sec actually means something. The mechanic is fine on paper, it's just that there's no real difference between anything that's the problem: you commit a crime and you do the time; instead of varying the penalty based on your history. Originally by: Kazuma Saruwatari F'nog for Amarr Emperor. Nuff said Originally by: Chribba Go F'nog! You're a hero! Not a Zero! /me bows
dark876	Posted - 2008.08.24 04:59:00 - [11] Edited by: dark876 on 24/08/2008 05:01:10 Originally by: Galan Amarias Actually the crime is a game mechanic. You must have noticed the "Global Criminal Flag" when you blast someone. Yes, another useless feature making you sit it out in a safespot for 15 minutes so per night you get less action, less engagements, less kills or losses. Once again, the fact that it is there doesn't make it a good game feature. Originally by: Galan Amarias The reason we get to have to rat is that we're admiting that in the game we're the bad guys and we have to accept the consequences of that action. Neg Sec or having to Rat. Neg sec isn't crippeling, just annoying. Yet while in high sec or null sec you do not have to "admit" you're the bad guy engaging in same kind of actions. Even worse in high sec, because there you have the ability to engage players who are totally unaware and unprepared (newbies, hardcore carebears, etc.) by simply paying wardec fees. To me this makes very little sense, and when something doesn't make sense I cannot accept it as a reasonable explanation. Originally by: Galan Amarias Also note that the pirate is engaging other players. I think of it as a public service, being the bad guy, but if your are going to be the bad guy you have to suck up the penalties. If you can't stand ratting live -10. Plenty of bad guys in EVE - scammers, corp thieves, racketeers, 0.0 bullies - yet the low sec pirates get hit with the penalty stick the hardest. My question is why? And if you look at it from the player perspective, the pirate player is forced to engage in boring activity for several days (weeks for those of us with a job and a family) if he is to ever take his character to high sec space again while characters of other professions in EVE do not incur same kind of penalties. Originally by: Galan Amarias If you can take the ratting, you can bring the sec up pretty quick with low effort and moderate fun by doing your ratting in something disposable in someone elses' 0.0. If you stick to a no pods diet it's a minor sec hit anyway, especially if the target shoots back. Yeah been there done that. Still no fun. Originally by: Galan Amarias Finally, read the dev blogs, sec hits in low sec are getting reduced. As are sec hits for people with a high standing vs lower. So put the effort in once, get to +5 and then it's easy maintance sec gain from there out. Reduced but not removed and this change will only affect deep low sec systems. And don't expect it to be by any large amount. Originally by: Khemul Zula Well to be honest, if low-sec were the way you want it to be then there'd just be some other person here complaining about the lack of penalties for low-sec piracy suggesting the game be changed to the way it currently is. So based on that I think it is logical to assume that there is a alternate universe somewhere out there where this is actually the way the game functions. Find a way to get to it and your problem is solved. If you haven't noticed it yet, these forums are the place for eve players to discuss EVE features or issues that they think need some changes. Assuming you're that person that says "no it is fine the way it is" what I am asking is for you guys to give some good reasons backed up by solid logic and make me see the light that indeed having security status penalty and making pirates engage in some very boring no-brainer activities is a good thing for the game and its playerbase. Because so far I see it is a bad thing for both pvpers and high sec carebears.
Tortun Nahme Minmatar Umbra Synergy Final Retribution Alliance	Posted - 2008.08.24 05:12:00 - [12] because EvE is a cold harsh world, and sec status penalties are the only way you pirates get to experience that part Applebabe ate my signature :( but the fish hat forgives! Nemotology is the EvE religion of choice!
Galan Amarias Amarr The Drekla Consortium	Posted - 2008.08.24 06:02:00 - [13] Edited by: Galan Amarias on 24/08/2008 06:03:11 Originally by: dark876 Yes, another useless feature making you sit it out in a safespot for 15 minutes so per night you get less action, less engagements, less kills or losses. Once again, the fact that it is there doesn't make it a good game feature. I think you're probably just trolling now but what the heck. Global criminal flag does not interupt your killing. It just means new victims can shoot back proactivly. If you are gate camping you should already have planned for tanking the guns so even they are a non-issue. GCF has never cost me a kill. Originally by: dark876 Yet while in high sec or null sec you do not have to "admit" you're the bad guy engaging in same kind of actions. Even worse in high sec, because there you have the ability to engage players who are totally unaware and unprepared (newbies, hardcore carebears, etc.) by simply paying wardec fees. To me this makes very little sense, and when something doesn't make sense I cannot accept it as a reasonable explanation. Again nonsense. In high sec you admit it with a wardec and the cost, or you are suiciding and get a sec hit. Scamming is pure roleplay and the penalties are also roleplay. Thats why everyone knows who Lofty is. Did you not know there is a 24 hour warning peroid before hostilities can commence? Originally by: dark876 Plenty of bad guys in EVE - scammers, corp thieves, racketeers, 0.0 bullies - yet the low sec pirates get hit with the penalty stick the hardest. My question is why? 0.0 bullies? How about this. Location location location. How would 0.0 be different from low sec w/o that modi**of control? Low sec is still empire space, it's just the crappy less lawful fringes. Originally by:** dark876 And if you look at it from the player perspective, the pirate player is forced to engage in boring activity for several days (weeks for those of us with a job and a family) if he is to ever take his character to high sec space again while characters of other professions in EVE do not incur same kind of penalties. I have a job, and a family, train social to 4, get fast talk, also to 4, and move through 4 sysems as you rat. Refrain from pods. It's cake to maintain -2.0 or above. Originally by: dark876 Yeah been there done that. Still no fun. This is EVE, not WOW. You have to make your own fun. You want to talk about unfun. Mining, missions, bleah. Pirates have the fun job. Originally by: dark876 Reduced but not removed and this change will only affect deep low sec systems. And don't expect it to be by any large amount. IT's still reduced ergo something already not hard gets easier. Originally by: dark876 If you haven't noticed it yet, these forums are the place for eve players to discuss EVE features or issues that they think need some changes. Assuming you're that person that says "no it is fine the way it is" what I am asking is for you guys to give some good reasons backed up by solid logic and make me see the light that indeed having security status penalty and making pirates engage in some very boring no-brainer activities is a good thing for the game and its playerbase. Because so far I see it is a bad thing for both pvpers and high sec carebears. Actually this is general discussion, it's mainly for whining and trolling but it's fun. New ideas are ment for Features and Iseas forrum. I think you see it as a bad thing for you. Learn some patience. EVE is about consequences to your actions. You want to be the criminal w/o any of his drawbacks. It's not gouing to happen. -Galan CSM fails nano
Vaal Erit Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2008.08.24 06:11:00 - [14] Isn't it obvious that if you murder another pod pilot that the pod pilots friends (CONCORD, the 4 major races) will not like you as much? It is the wild west in space, but murder is still an offense that carries penalties. Mining, mission runner and building does not involve murder, hence does not provoke the same response from CONCORD/4 major races. Doesn't it make sense that known criminals are catalogued and arranged by the worst offenders via security staus? A game that penalized someone harshly for mining wouldn't make much sense, I mean I guess we could put tacos in space as well, but that doesn't make sense. Stuff doesn't have to make perfect sense, but it at least has to make SOME sense, and security status makes sense to 99.999% of the population...all expcet you it seems. -- http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html
Scurvey Jones	Posted - 2008.08.24 06:21:00 - [15] A life of crime is hard time.
Artemis Rose Varion Galactic Accord Corporate Enterprise Syndicate	Posted - 2008.08.24 06:32:00 - [16] Its odd you get a huge penalty for "killing" an immortal in first place, but rewarded for wanton slaughter of certain NPCs. I mean, the death toll from killing 15 pods, or 5 pirate battleships don't even compare __________________________________________________ Currently Playing: Trolls from Outer Space Current Equipment: VISAcard chain mail, +2 Amulet of Epic Whine. WTB Purple Nerf Bat.
PuncherDavis	Posted - 2008.08.24 07:07:00 - [17] Originally by: Tortun Nahme has nothing to do with roleplaying, it is a crime to violence someones boat without paying concord, thats the way the law works in EvE you want to violence boats with no penalty, you either pay the man, or you come out to 0.0, suck it up buttercup, we have a bubble for you DUDE u made me laugh so hard I about blew my soda all over the screen.. Id like to give this man an applause and I will contact you in game for a reward..WOW talk about bringing on the smackdown to ******s WOOT !!! u go buddy lol
Disposeble Alt Caldari	Posted - 2008.08.24 07:12:00 - [18] I think it is mostly a time for time calculation. If you engage a hapless victim (the type that does not fight back and such) and pod him you have to spend a similar amount of time penalty in activities that gain you standings as the victim spent to get together what you destroyed, or accept the penalties as they are applied. mining and missioning do not destroy other peoples stuff, therefore those activities do not need sec hit regulation. As for closing down space.. this is something mission runners do experience. Once they run to many missions for just one faction others will never allow them back in. Working your way back from -10 sec is many many times easyer than working yourself back from -8 standings with a corp or faction. Worse even in many situations working yourself up from -10 standings with a group is impossible. Maybe the sec hit should also be modified for the value of destroyed and stolen goods? Posts by alts hide political affiliation and history. No political statement by any alt should be taken seriously.
dark876	Posted - 2008.08.24 07:55:00 - [19] Originally by: Galan Amarias Global criminal flag does not interupt your killing. It just means new victims can shoot back proactivly. If you are gate camping you should already have planned for tanking the guns so even they are a non-issue.GCF has never cost me a kill. In a lighter ship with GCC you are stuck in a system for 15 minutes, so instead of finding more fights you are sitting it out in ss, looking into space. This does cost you potential fights. The victim can shoot you back proactively very well without any GCC going in low sec. Originally by: dark876 Again nonsense. In high sec you admit it with a wardec and the cost, or you are suiciding and get a sec hit. Scamming is pure roleplay and the penalties are also roleplay. Thats why everyone knows who Lofty is. Did you not know there is a 24 hour warning peroid before hostilities can commence? And piracy is not roleplay? Do you pirate your neighbor's car with your car? 2 mil war dec fee is nothing compared to countless hours you have to spend killing NPCs. And even with 24 hours warning a newbie or indy corp will still get slaughtered by experienced pvpers. In fact scammers, mercenaries, thieves, and racketeers do more damage to carebear population every day than low sec pirates and they get practically no penalties for their ebil activities. Originally by: dark876 0.0 bullies? How about this. Location location location. How would 0.0 be different from low sec w/o that modi**of control? Low sec is still empire space, it's just the crappy less lawful fringes. Anyone who has browsed forums for a while has seen new players post here frustrated about being killed in 0.0 space, accusing 0.0 inhabitants of being bullies. Or is killing suddenly not a crime if you do it in 0.0 instead of low sec? 0.0 space would still have its 0.0 space riches - ores, bs rats, high end explo sites, gas clouds, ability to hold sov with POS and build endgame cap ships, rich moons ores, pirate faction agents, outposts - need i go on. Low sec will still be a wasteland it is right now but with more pvp going on. This can only be a good thing for EVE. Originally by:** dark876 I have a job, and a family, train social to 4, get fast talk, also to 4, and move through 4 sysems as you rat. Thing is, it should not take you any amount of time. If you have no access to prime 0.0 space (read you aren't willing or unable to join 0.0 alliance that resides in deep 0.0) with Falk Talk lvl 4 it will take you about 230-250 battleships to get from -10 to -2 and over 300 if you want to actually have some room to pirate it down again. And if you are a new player and can't kill bs, it will take significantly more NPCs. May be you do not mind this boring grind, but I value my time and I do. Originally by: dark876 This is EVE, not WOW. You have to make your own fun. You want to talk about unfun. Mining, missions, bleah. Pirates have the fun job. There are players who love mining, running missions, producing, etc. And they are all free to engage in their favorite activities without losing travel privileges, having to pay more for items and ships, or opening up extra accounts to house alts. Originally by: dark876 I think you see it as a bad thing for you. Learn some patience. EVE is about consequences to your actions. You want to be the criminal w/o any of his drawbacks. It's not gouing to happen. EVE is a game and primarily it is about fun above all else. You make people grind too much or make consequence too steep, they will find it less fun and be more inclined to leave. If it was only me complaining about it I would have thought something is wrong with me, but I have heard countless times players complain ingame about having to grind up their sec status for whatever reason. Especially new players because it takes helluva lot of cruiser/battlecruiser NPCs to go up to -2 again. And those stupid 1.0 systems pop up on many travel routes through empire high sec.
dark876	Posted - 2008.08.24 08:00:00 - [20] Originally by: Artemis Rose Its odd you get a huge penalty for "killing" an immortal in first place, but rewarded for wanton slaughter of certain NPCs. I mean, the death toll from killing 15 pods, or 5 pirate battleships don't even compare what is still more odd is that Concord punishes you with more "grind time" for killing other pirates ... i mean shouldn't you be rewarded for killing ebil characters in game rather than penalized for it some more? either way you look at it the security status system is messed up and needs some major reworking
Kane Rizzel NovaKane Incorporated	Posted - 2008.08.24 10:42:00 - [21] The system is fine as is, if you can't work around it then I'm afraid Piracy is not for you. If you want to PvP without worrying about your sec status or timers then you need to go to 0.0 Low security doesn't mean no security, there are always consequences to your actions in empire, deal with them or shut up. If you do the crime, you need to do the time. A Pirates Perspective
dark876	Posted - 2008.08.24 11:03:00 - [22] Originally by: Kane Rizzel The system is fine as is, if you can't work around it then I'm afraid Piracy is not for you. If you want to PvP without worrying about your sec status or timers then you need to go to 0.0 Low security doesn't mean no security, there are always consequences to your actions in empire, deal with them or shut up. If you do the crime, you need to do the time. another one "it's fine because it's there" learn to read and and think before hitting reply button please
Kane Rizzel NovaKane Incorporated	Posted - 2008.08.24 11:08:00 - [23] Edited by: Kane Rizzel on 24/08/2008 11:14:07 learn not to be an idiot before whining because you can't fight within the system. There are hundreds of pilots who don't have a problem with fighting within the limitations of lowsec yet you come here proposing to be the second coming of Christ to save us from the awful CCP and the imposed consequences of living the outlaw lifestyle. Grow a pair and stop crying because lowsec is unfair, then maybe you can be a pirate Edit: post with your main Pirating character because it's difficult to take an alt who's majority of posts were this thread seriously. Or does this thread embarrass you so you won't dare do it? A Pirates Perspective
FlameGlow Legio Octae Rebellion Alliance	Posted - 2008.08.24 11:14:00 - [24] Edited by: FlameGlow on 24/08/2008 11:15:36 If only they had something to allow you killing any corp member anywhere without concord interference and security status loss for a nominal fee.... oh, wait... Low security is not no security anyway, so you still have consequences of illegal actions _____________ I don't care what is nerfed, as long as it's not my "undock" button.
dark876	Posted - 2008.08.24 11:19:00 - [25] Edited by: dark876 on 24/08/2008 11:21:17 Originally by: Kane Rizzel Edited by: Kane Rizzel on 24/08/2008 11:14:07 learn not to be an idiot before whining because you can't fight within the system. There are hundreds of pilots who don't have a problem with fighting within the limitations of lowsec yet you come here proposing to be the second coming of Christ to save us from the awful CCP and the imposed consequences of living the outlaw lifestyle. Grow a pair and stop crying because lowsec is unfair, then maybe you can be a pirate Edit: post with your main Pirating character because it's difficult to take an alt who's majority of posts were this thread seriously. Or does this thread embarrass you so you won't dare do it? take a chill pill man if you are fine taking it up the *** that's no reason to flame others like i said learn to read and discuss things first then post
dark876	Posted - 2008.08.24 11:25:00 - [26] Edited by: dark876 on 24/08/2008 11:26:04 Originally by: FlameGlow Edited by: FlameGlow on 24/08/2008 11:15:36 If only they had something to allow you killing any corp member anywhere without concord interference and security status loss for a nominal fee.... oh, wait... Low security is not no security anyway, so you still have consequences of illegal actions there are sentry guns and no bubbles cannot be planted, so it is higher security than 0.0 as for consequences you are engaging in pvp in a pvp-allowed zone - why should there be negative consequences to that? sec status penalties discourage pvp in low sec and i thought eve is a pvp-oriented game
Kane Rizzel NovaKane Incorporated	Posted - 2008.08.24 11:26:00 - [27] Not flaming sunshine. I like the way you respond to posts like mine, saying people should learn to read before responding. Take your blinkers off and take a look around, Piracy has been going since the beginning of the game, changing and evolving as the mechanics of lowsec have changed. Pirates adapt to the mechanics, not the other way round. Trying to mold the mechanics around you is not a challenge, the challenge is in making the most of what you have, using those mechanics to your advantage. Once you learn this you will understand. Until then keep replying with "LRN2READNUB" like statements, it makes you argument so much more valid. Take your own advice, chill, read, understand, then reply A Pirates Perspective
FlameGlow Legio Octae Rebellion Alliance	Posted - 2008.08.24 11:28:00 - [28] Originally by: dark876 Edited by: dark876 on 24/08/2008 11:26:04 there are sentry guns and no bubbles cannot be planted, so it is higher security than 0.0 as for consequences you are engaging in pvp in a pvp-allowed zone - why should there be negative consequences to that? sec status penalties discourage pvp in low sec and i thought eve is a pvp-oriented game "PVP-allowed zone" WTF is that? GTFBWOW! PVP is allowed everywhere in EVE, different zones just have different consequences _____________ I don't care what is nerfed, as long as it's not my "undock" button.
dark876	Posted - 2008.08.24 11:33:00 - [29] Originally by: Kane Rizzel Not flaming sunshine. I like the way you respond to posts like mine, saying people should learn to read before responding. Take your blinkers off and take a look around, Piracy has been going since the beginning of the game, changing and evolving as the mechanics of lowsec have changed. Pirates adapt to the mechanics, not the other way round. Trying to mold the mechanics around you is not a challenge, the challenge is in making the most of what you have, using those mechanics to your advantage. Once you learn this you will understand. Until then keep replying with "LRN2READNUB" like statements, it makes you argument so much more valid. Take your own advice, chill, read, understand, then reply your argument amounts to a bunch of flames and "it's fine because it is there as a game mechanic" soz, that's not good enough until you can explain without flaming why being penalized for engaging in pvp in a pvp zone is a good thing
Tenoh	Posted - 2008.08.24 11:36:00 - [30] lol i am glad i am not paying any more for this shit game cause it got all of you fkrs in it lol! i am out of here!

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