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Rawr Cristina
Caldari
Omerta Syndicate
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Posted - 2008.08.26 07:31:00 -
[31]
 Originally by: Wil Smithx
ROFLMFAO - oh lol just read the first bit of the second post...
If that were to happen, which it wont because your an idiot and thats a dreadful idea, you know we would see stealth bombers going 2km/s (to escape the blast of their bombs and dumping out alpha strikes around 50% of a doomsday while pick 'n mixing flavors then being able to repeat it 1 minute later for some 1/2500th of the cost of a titan before factoring in invested skills... and oh god, just LOL.
Think before you post dude lol.
Take your own advice?
Really, have you ever seen Bombs in their current form used to any effect?
About the only role for Bombers atm is to annoy people at gates from 100k away and cloak/warp off as soon as anything gets cloes to them. Due to not being able to warp cloaked, however, any actual element of suprise (which should be the whole point of a Stealth Bomber, no?) is lost.
Stealth Bombers need Covert Cloaks, and Bombs need to be cheaper. That in itself will IMO fix Bombers.
- Infectious - |
Wil Smithx
Minmatar
Suns Of Korhal
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Posted - 2008.08.26 07:43:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Rawr Cristina
Take your own advice?
Really, have you ever seen Bombs in their current form used to any effect?
About the only role for Bombers atm is to annoy people at gates from 100k away and cloak/warp off as soon as anything gets cloes to them. Due to not being able to warp cloaked, however, any actual element of suprise (which should be the whole point of a Stealth Bomber, no?) is lost.
Stealth Bombers need Covert Cloaks, and Bombs need to be cheaper. That in itself will IMO fix Bombers.
Shut your noise!
I never said bombers were useful, I said that nano doomsday devices were not the solution.
Now I am in fact am planning to use bombers to take out enemy gangs but I have yet to get some pilots on test to see how much damage a vaga will take from a kinetic bomb before its has its mwd active...
I think you'd find the answer somewhat interesting.
Also unsure on this but bombs still hit while people are cloaked after jumping into a system. In theory this could be used to wipe out gangs before they even load system.
As somebody who already has bombardment 5 and cov ops 4, its no real issue for me to test this apart from getting the ship out to 0.0 so it can be tested and make no error, I will be testing this.
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Boz Well
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.08.26 07:45:00 -
[33]
Before it has its MWD on... what's it sig radius then? 
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Lrd Byron
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Posted - 2008.08.26 07:47:00 -
[34]
The OP makes some good points. First about the fitting, all the bombers should have enough PG and CPU to fit pretty much whatever they want, the number of slots is enough of a limitation. Everyone fits their bombers in exactly the same way because there is no other way to do it without horribly gimping some important aspect of the ship. Second, I also agree with the OP about the confused ship bonuses. The ship revolves around high alpha, but the missiles take so long to get anywhere that you really can't even consider it alpha damage. They get a huge bonus to explosion radius, implying that you should be anti frigate, but frigates can easily outrun both the explosion velocity and missile velocity.
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Wil Smithx
Minmatar
Suns Of Korhal
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Posted - 2008.08.26 08:10:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Boz Well
Before it has its MWD on... what's it sig radius then?
Sigh the vaga needs to have its mwd active to get instapopped unless you use at least 3 kin bombs which gives you about a 1 second window to hit that vaga before it reaches explosion velocity.
Sounds like a fun game to play with all the nano ***s :D
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Elhina Novae
Destruction Reborn
CORPVS DELICTI
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Posted - 2008.08.26 09:00:00 -
[36]
Edited by: Elhina Novae on 26/08/2008 09:01:40
Stealth Bombers, needs no tank, period. They are fine and extremely effective as they are with the right pilot. The only thing I can agree with is that Bomb Launchers/Bombs needs a fix.
Stealth Bomber:
High:
'Arbalest' (T2 if fittings allows)
Improved Cloaking Device II
Mid:
Sensor Booster (Named if needed, fittings again, F-90 works well)
Lows:
Ballistic Control System II (as many as you possibly can)
Possible 3rd Low slot: Co-Processor II (could be needed)
Rigs:
2 x Calefaction (here you need a compromise, will T2 launchers with more CPU need or rigs do more damage?)
Though imo today, the "best" Stealth Bomber is the Manticore due to its very very nice CPU and can get a very nice full (or almost full) T2 fittings compared to the others.
Don't tank a Stealth Bomber come on, its a paper boat it will die if you get targetted. ALWAYS stay aligned, pew pew and if a Interceptor gets close / you get targetted, warp out, and warp in again 100km or more if possible from the gang.
Your job is to bring in extra DPS or a good alpha in the begining of an engagement, also ALPHA is better then DPS the first few volleys... 2-3 volleys is a good thumbrule
------------
Originally by: Boz Well
Originally by: SurrenderMonkey
...
There's an Amarr problem?
Nothing that can't be solved by more Minmatar nerfs.
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OMGJITA
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Posted - 2008.08.26 10:27:00 -
[37]
tbh, every time i see these posts i just /rolleyes
SB's are fine, with the exception of the implementation of BOMBs.
in packs they are compleately deadly and a assest to any support gang.
people by them and expect them to fly like a assault frig with BS weapons, no no no learn to fly.
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Imaos
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Posted - 2008.08.26 13:31:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Rawr Cristina
Originally by: Wil Smithx
ROFLMFAO - oh lol just read the first bit of the second post...
If that were to happen, which it wont because your an idiot and thats a dreadful idea, you know we would see stealth bombers going 2km/s (to escape the blast of their bombs and dumping out alpha strikes around 50% of a doomsday while pick 'n mixing flavors then being able to repeat it 1 minute later for some 1/2500th of the cost of a titan before factoring in invested skills... and oh god, just LOL.
Think before you post dude lol.
Take your own advice?
Really, have you ever seen Bombs in their current form used to any effect?
About the only role for Bombers atm is to annoy people at gates from 100k away and cloak/warp off as soon as anything gets cloes to them. Due to not being able to warp cloaked, however, any actual element of suprise (which should be the whole point of a Stealth Bomber, no?) is lost.
Stealth Bombers need Covert Cloaks, and Bombs need to be cheaper. That in itself will IMO fix Bombers.
I really wish people would think of the possibilities a cov ops stealth bomber gang would have. The problem isn't that it would make the cov ops obsolete, but that it would spawn plentiful whine threads because of the ganking that will happen.
Stealth bombers with cov ops cloak are sooo much overpowered for gan[g/k]s it isnt funny. Nobody likes being killed without being able to react.
Imaos
------------------------------------------
Originally by: NoNah
My friend, this is EVE, as it's a space oriented game, they couldn't have trolls. We have Caldari. |
6Bagheera9
Slacker Industries
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Posted - 2008.08.26 14:12:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Tefkros
Originally by: 6Bagheera9
Originally by: Tefkros
I have a SB with scram, dual webs and 200mm plate. Do I have to solo a Vagabond to make the tears go away?
The drones will eat you alive and he can also switch to EMP and hit you often enough with the guns to make you notice.
Once you dual web the Vagabond and orbit it at 500m, 2 things will happen:
1. His tracking goes to hell. He can use whatever ammo he likes, he will never hit a frig orbiting it at that range. Only the mandatory wrecking shot every what, 30 shots? While all this time the SB is hitting a stationary target.
2. The drones will not achieve high speed because they won't have to chase you around. Two volleys and they are all gone. That's what the 200mm plate is for. Ability to last that long.
As will all ships, taking advantage of game mechanics is what makes or breaks it.
Most Vagas use D180mm II ACs which have good tracking a high RoF, even if you manage to evade all but the wrecking shots (not likely given that you're not gonna be moving more than 1.5km/s)you are still going to take several wrecking hits of over 300 damage before you can get through the Vaga's buffer. And while you can target and nuke the drones, they are gonna bore into you for a little while. Killing them is also gonna cost you 2 volleys, giving the ACs more time to find their mark. A Hound with a 200mm RT and a DCU II has about 3.4k EHP, and is simply not able to last the time it would take to eat through the Vaga's buffer. This of course all ignores the difficulty of getting in web range of the Vaga to begin with. Good Vaga pilots are constantly moving, even when camping gates, you're not gonna be able to catch one cloaked except by chance. Now to be clear, I'm not denying that at some point someone has soloed a Vaga in a stealth bomber. The law of large numbers dictates that a sufficiently stupid Vaga pilot and a sufficiently lucky bomber are going to meet. But I am correct in saying that these meetings are very rare and that the bomber is the one that usually gets killed.
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Rawr Cristina
Caldari
Omerta Syndicate
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Posted - 2008.08.26 15:01:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Imaos
I really wish people would think of the possibilities a cov ops stealth bomber gang would have. The problem isn't that it would make the cov ops obsolete, but that it would spawn plentiful whine threads because of the ganking that will happen.
Stealth bombers with cov ops cloak are sooo much overpowered for gan[g/k]s it isnt funny. Nobody likes being killed without being able to react.
Imaos
huh, I'm not so sure. With current bombs you'd still need anything up to 15 bombs to kill a Battleship. If you can really get 15 Bombers into a system, near an enemy without spooking them with a local spike or decloaking each other like crazy, then I'd say you deserve that instapop.
The problem is, that would cost around 100mil ISK because Bombs are so overpriced at the moment. 
- Infectious - |
Shepard Book
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2008.08.26 16:35:00 -
[41]
This ship was supposed to be an anti blob ship but with the lag that fleets cause you are poped before the bomb goes off. Uncloaking and launching a bomb in lag is pointless.
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Omarvelous
Destry's Lounge
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Posted - 2008.08.26 20:19:00 -
[42]
CCP sort it out.
__________________________________________________
Sup brosef!
Destry's Lounge is looking for a few good drunks - contact me in game.
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Zugger
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Posted - 2008.08.27 00:03:00 -
[43]
I have heard some pilots say that fitting a painter on a SB is a nubbish thing to do. Was this bad advice or will a painter make a big difference in my Alpha attack? I would be hunting Cruiser size vessles mostly.
Fitting
3 Cruise missles
T2 cloaker
2 signal amps
best named signal damp
T2 ECCM (hunting ECM ships) <- I would possibly replace a painter for certain fights?
2 Ballistics
Rigs -> undecided, can't do the warhead upgrades due to a lack of CPU
Sorry for spelling.
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Spaztick
Canadian Imperial Armaments
EVESpace
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Posted - 2008.08.27 00:15:00 -
[44]
The explosion radius on my SB is 50m, about the size of a frigate. The only thing you would need a TP on is an inty with its MWD off or a drone.
But seriously, more people should have some type of spacer in their sigs to show it's not part of the post.
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Zugger
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Posted - 2008.08.27 00:45:00 -
[45]
That makes since. Thanks for the clarification.
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Tefkros
The Dead Pod Society
Chain of Chaos
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Posted - 2008.08.27 06:16:00 -
[46]
Edited by: Tefkros on 27/08/2008 06:16:11
Originally by: 6Bagheera9
Most Vagas use D180mm II ACs which have good tracking a high RoF, even if you manage to evade all but the wrecking shots (not likely given that you're not gonna be moving more than 1.5km/s)you are still going to take several wrecking hits of over 300 damage before you can get through the Vaga's buffer.
A very underutilized tactic when you fight a Vaga in a Huginn, is to turn off your mwd and orbit it at 500m. That's how I fly mine (and lost it to a clever Vaga that fit a web), and trust me when I tell you that at this range, even D180mms have no chance of tracking a cruiser sized ship, never mind a frigate sized one.
Surely, a SB killing a Vaga doesn't sound right and can't be expected to happen in most scenarios, but surprise and the zero recalibration time can give you a huge advantage in the right circumstances. Which is all the SB is supposed to do imo.
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Wild Rho
Amarr
Silent Core
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Posted - 2008.08.27 10:36:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Saietor Blackgreen
Problem of the bombs is very complicated procedure of aiming and firing, which is very hard to pull off in a real-life tactical situation. You need to position the bombers in right place, align several bombers, launch bombs at the same time and launch them from same distance from target.
This is EXTREMELY hard. Even if you ambush the enemy, so your bombers are already cloaked and in position, coordination of this is a nightmare. And if you need to warp bombers in - forget it.
I originally thought like this about the bombs at the start but after spending quite some time with friends trying different tactics the current method of bomb deployment is one of the best approaches implemented simply because it is one of the few factors that is almost completely determined by the players ability to handle their ship in a coordinated fashion.
The current tactic that's proven very successful for us in this was to have everyone move within 20kms of the target and simply stop or take a position that maintains that range safely.
Once everyone has verified they're in position, manually set your speed to its lowest possible speed that isn't stationary and then approach the target. This gives everyone time to align on the target without getting too close.
Once at the appropriate firing range give the order for everyone to decloak and fire off their bombs.
As soon as the bombs are released attempt to recloak and set your speed to maximum while moving off in a different direction.
The above will almost always ensure you never fly within the explosive radius of your bomb and helps make sure everyone deploys their payload at the same time. If done right (and accounting for lag) you should only be decloaked for a few seconds. If you have surprise on your side and the enemy is busy engaging other targets you should be able to cloak and escape before they can react.
Of course lag makes this much more difficult but in truth that's the same for any frigate pilot under the same circumstances.
Anywho...
The main idea posted isn't really anything to do with the use of cruise missiles on bombers, it's to do with making bomb deployment more viable.
The only reason suggested for moving the cruise missile ability to another hull was because a stealth bomber that can use cruise missiles AND warp cloaked would be overpowered, however I firmly believe that the ability to warp cloaked is important for any serious attempt at coordinated bomb deployment.
In truth the idea works just as well reversed with the current stealth bomber maintaining its cruise missile ability and bomb deployment being used on another hull. Either way the different requirements of both weapon systems really do need separate ships with different abilities suited to those weapons.
Oh and for the record I've clocked plenty of time flying bombers and know how to use them just fine.
All the posted examples of bombers being "effective" involve them ganking lone or improperly equipped targets, all of which could be killed faster and more effectively by inty or af gangs of equal size.
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Agent Kira
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Posted - 2008.08.27 11:50:00 -
[48]
I posted this yesterday titled 'A STUDY OF STEALTH BOMBERS'. Some of you in here might find this interesting.
click HERE
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