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Gneeznow Minmatar North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2008.08.25 13:00:00 - [1] I watched this on the recommendation of a friend, knowing it was a documentary of some sort on the current state of the world, I have to say I'm very impressed with this movie, although I am pretty sure bringing up any of the subjects in it will result in this thread being nuked to pieces. What I will say on the matter is it is not a copy of another documentary that people have said, It does contain a lot of material from loose change second edition, but zeitgeist seems to have picked up on the theme of loose change and carried one with it in a way that makes it easier to digest, making it a very interesting but slightly depressing watch. I knew a lot of this stuff already from watching documentaries and reading but the way zeitgeist puts it all into perspective and connects it all together is pretty fantastic, although I found myself a little depressed after watching it and contemplating the future of our species the thought crossed my mind that some time down the line, our lives are going to look like some horrible cheesy clone of starship troopers or something. One of the most interesting things about it was not how the future looks (I dont need to be told we are screwed I knew that already) but how the first chapter on religion came together, how all these manifestations of sun worship was changed and distorted into modern religion, how all the other deity's and prophets followed the same template of birth to death to resurrection, its like someone made a template of how to create a religion back in the day and the same template was used over and over again until Christianity took hold and the end result is what we have today. I have never been happier to be an atheist than right now, after watching this documentary. Ps: ibtl !
Tarek Tarazul	Posted - 2008.08.25 13:09:00 - [2] Edited by: Tarek Tarazul on 25/08/2008 13:12:06 Isn't this one of the '11th September was Santa Claus' movies? The movie in fact, that admitted having 'build in' errors (only to make people question the documentation of course), quoting people out of context and even changing their quotes? I think it is.
Gneeznow Minmatar North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2008.08.25 13:15:00 - [3] Originally by: Tarek Tarazul Edited by: Tarek Tarazul on 25/08/2008 13:09:43 Is this the movie that admitted having 'build in' errors (only to make people question the documentation of course), quoting people out of context and even changing their quotes? I think it is. quoting people out of context, maybe, but how would that be any different from all media / any michael moore documentary / in fact pretty much half of the stuff thats shoved down our throats on tv, context is rarely given when quoting people anyway, be it some news reporter talking about something in iraq to some leaflet you pick up in a bank. changing their quotes? care to elaborate further?
DarthJosh We Are Two	Posted - 2008.08.25 13:18:00 - [4] It is a very, very good docco. I'm an Athiest myself, and i did enjoy it alot :} i even had a "heh, i told you so" smirk at the end of it. that said, going along with the Athiest spirit, how much of it is not propaganda, one must always ask that question, even if a documentary apears positive, and in Ziet's case, its very apealing, perhaps too apealing? one problamatic issue i found was its approach of absalute truth, coming from a POV of "this is 100% true.". i could never completely trust anything that carries that notion, i did my research though, and most things in it are actually true. I'll leave the contested bits of it to your own consideration, and research - Desusigs!
Tarek Tarazul	Posted - 2008.08.25 13:23:00 - [5] As is said, i'm not sure if it is the movie i remember, i will have to take a look at it. But not now at work ^^(looks over shoulder)
snaike Legio Immortalis	Posted - 2008.08.25 15:38:00 - [6] Watched it many times over, me and some of my friends also attended one of the 'Zeitgeist Day' meetings. Having done the research also, it seems to be an extremely good documentary, and is certainly no more biased than anything else on television today. That said, 90% of people will simply dismiss is as another crazy conspiracy vid about 9/11, and that's why we're in such a sorry state. Cryin' Won't Help You, Prayin' Will Do You No Good History is written by the winners, that's why all history books are written in English
Sanguis Sanies Amarr	Posted - 2008.08.25 15:46:00 - [7] I saw the doco a few months back and thought it was really quite interesting, watched a few more times taking notes of all the various logical arguments (and leaps) that the doco made, I haven't watched it since then, but I have had the itch to recently, so i may watch it whilst mining in the next few days. Part I I have to admit that I am Athiest, and have been since late primary school, I was raised Catholic so I new their story, I also was aware that the story was similar to other stories that had happened, but I didn't realise how similar, even with in the same book, it also raised the possibility that the characters may not have even been real. Part II There are a lot of suspicious things that happened surrounding this event, A LOT! There were massive delays in everything that happened. the interesting thing to note though is that in the month or so after the event, very very little happened (besides the usual coverage and grieving) but then everything happened; we knew who did it, where they were, how they did it, all the small tell-tale signs that were ignored, all the BIG tell-tale signs that were missed ("We don't need to know how to take-off and land, We just want to fly a plane in the horizontal") and we suddenly 'knew' what to do; start a big freaking war with a country that had a bit to do with it, then start a war with a country that had nothing to do with it. Part III This is the weakest part of the doco to be honest, the largest leaps of logic are made in this section, whilst it's true that with enough money and with enough clout any person/s can't do massive scale market manipulation (we only need look at the eve markets to know that) but seriously going from stock market manipulation to RFID tags is rather a implausible leap.
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2008.08.25 15:51:00 - [8] Edited by: Jim McGregor on 25/08/2008 15:52:13 I think its great. Probably has a lot of truth to it too. There are sites out there not agreeing with it of course. I guess everyone has to make up their own opinion about who to believe. As always. --- Originally by: Roguehalo Can you nano Titans?
kor anon Amarr Ministry of War	Posted - 2008.08.25 17:03:00 - [9] Zeitgeist was utter shit. It was boring lame and 80% if not more of the facts in that movie were false or deliberately altered
Rubra J. S. Bach In memoriam	Posted - 2008.08.25 17:04:00 - [10] shite "documentary" is shite
kor anon Amarr Ministry of War	Posted - 2008.08.25 19:12:00 - [11] Originally by: Rubra shite "documentary" is shite agree with the quote marks there. IT always amazes me that people always go 'the governemt is lying to us dont beleive what they say until you research the facts' when at the same time they blindly follow this conspiratorial garbage
Haraldhardrade Amarr Pax Amarr	Posted - 2008.08.25 19:23:00 - [12] Moral Zeitgeist Proper explaination for the dumb. Caveo of Minmatar , torva vacuus regimen of deus es plurrimi periculosus of bestia
Alpha Prime Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.08.26 06:38:00 - [13] nr:1 There IS no god. And everyone who belives there is some dude with beard who created everything while sitting up in the clouds.. Get a f****ng clue nr:2 It's SO obvious that 9/11 was their own goverment. There are so much 'secret' things. Stuff the americans SHOULD ask, but are too ignorant to ask. Ignorance is not always bliss. There is no price on true lojalty
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2008.08.26 07:13:00 - [14] Richard Dawkings reads his hatemail _ SHOPS \|\| Mission rewards revamp \|\| better nanofix
kor anon Amarr Ministry of War	Posted - 2008.08.26 07:35:00 - [15] Originally by: Alpha Prime nr:1 There IS no god. And everyone who belives there is some dude with beard who created everything while sitting up in the clouds.. Get a f**ng clue nr:2 It's SO obvious that 9/11 was their own goverment. There are so much 'secret' things. Stuff the americans SHOULD ask, but are too ignorant to ask. Ignorance is not always bliss. nr1: Isn't it amazing that atheiest are often more zealous than thos who follow religion. Where is your proof that there is no god? Now i don't personally care whether or not s god exists because either way i am not about to bow and sc** to anything bar myself. But you have no proof, neither does the people who believe in god. Therefore no one can know for certain. And religions are often useful, as they encourage good moral standards beacause when they do something bad, it is not only against the law but a sin also. Religions are also good for a stable goverments (and by stable i mean autocratic rule). nr2: Hard proof again do you have any? I thought not, and as long as you dont the american goverment is innocent (you know the innocent before proven guilty bit?) ANd besides if they did it was a damn good move, it alowed them to sieze more control over the poplace, allowed them to enter iraq to "liberate" the people. So all in all it was damn worth it, imagine all the money they got from the oil. And before you go whining oh boo hoo thats evil, naughty government. You should probable realise that all goverments no matter their original policies will move towards the right. This isn't evil this is just what they do
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2008.08.26 07:53:00 - [16] Edited by: Akita T on 26/08/2008 07:55:51 Originally by: kor anon Isn't it amazing that atheiest are often more zealous than thos who follow religion. Where is your proof that there is no god? There's a diamond buried in my back garden. You can't see it, and it moves if you try to find it. But it's there. You can't prove it isn't there, so it's there. I am freaking rich, but nobody knows that. Buy me stuff, and I'll owe you one. See how nice that works ? Quote: And religions are often useful, as they encourage good moral standards beacause when they do something bad, it is not only against the law but a sin also. Religions are also good for a stable goverments (and by stable i mean autocratic rule). Religions are the single most important cause of human misery across all recorded human existance. Countries in the world today exist (and are actually quite prosperous and peaceful) where atheism (or at least agnosticism) is the majoritary "belief". Case closed. Quote: 9/11 No comment and I couldn't care less anyway. It served its purpose, who caused it doesn't matter. _ SHOPS \|\| Mission rewards revamp \|\| better nanofix
kor anon Amarr Ministry of War	Posted - 2008.08.26 08:12:00 - [17] Originally by: Akita T Edited by: Akita T on 26/08/2008 07:55:51 Originally by: kor anon Isn't it amazing that atheiest are often more zealous than thos who follow religion. Where is your proof that there is no god? There's a diamond buried in my back garden. You can't see it, and it moves if you try to find it. But it's there. You can't prove it isn't there, so it's there. I am freaking rich, but nobody knows that. Buy me stuff, and I'll owe you one. See how nice that works ? Quote: And religions are often useful, as they encourage good moral standards beacause when they do something bad, it is not only against the law but a sin also. Religions are also good for a stable goverments (and by stable i mean autocratic rule). Religions are the single most important cause of human misery across all recorded human existance. Countries in the world today exist (and are actually quite prosperous and peaceful) where atheism (or at least agnosticism) is the majoritary "belief". Case closed. Quote: 9/11 No comment and I couldn't care less anyway. It served its purpose, who caused it doesn't matter. nr1: nice little story you set up, but who is to say there is no diomand in the garden, couldnt he be telling the truth? nr2: Yes religion has caused suffering, everything does. But thats not the point, religion (im not talking about any of the major religions we follow) has good point also, but whiny shits like yourself often forget the good and lament about the bad. So what religion has caused suffering and bloodshed? Our entire history, and every single civilisation to DATE was founded on war and bloodshed, so dont get all high and mighty. Name some atheist countries plox and ill show you how inconsequential they are. take that proverbial case and shove it up your backside
Tarek Tarazul	Posted - 2008.08.26 08:13:00 - [18] Edited by: Tarek Tarazul on 26/08/2008 08:15:58 Couln't get to watch it yesterday... anyway: Originally by: Akita T Religions are the single most important cause of human misery across all recorded human existance. No, religion was never a cause or reason, just an excuse. Slaughter the heathens... but make sure you bring all their gold and other valuable stuff with you. And also make sure to conquer their cities so we get all their taxes, in the name of [enter your favored god or prophet here].
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2008.08.26 08:26:00 - [19] Edited by: Akita T on 26/08/2008 08:27:14 Originally by: kor anon nr1: nice little story you set up, but who is to say there is no diomand in the garden, couldnt he be telling the truth? I am telling that story. Now, quick, send me 10 bil ISK and I'll cut you in for 10% of the HUGE diamond's share of profits. Quote: nr2: Yes religion has caused suffering, everything does. But thats not the point, religion (im not talking about any of the major religions we follow) has good point also, but whiny shits like yourself often forget the good and lament about the bad. Because you DON'T NEED religion for that. You can have morals without religion easily. It's called "the law" and "obeying the law". Religion of any kind is for either weak-willed, uneducated or stupid people. Quote: Name some atheist countries plox and ill show you how inconsequential they are. UK, France, The Netherlands, Chzech Republic, Sweeden, Norway, Denmark, Iceland, Latvia. Need more ? Originally by: Tarek Tarazul No, religion was never a cause or reason, just an excuse. Point conceded. It WAS more of an excuse, but you have to agree, it was a damn convenient and easy excuse. _ SHOPS \|\| Mission rewards revamp \|\| better nanofix
kor anon Amarr Ministry of War	Posted - 2008.08.26 08:36:00 - [20] UK from the official government census: christian 71.6% no religion 15.5% muslim 2.7% hindu 1% JEDI KNIGHT 0.7% france: France as: Roman Catholic 83-88%, Protestant 2%, Jewish 1% (from 2003) cba to check the rest so please research for yourself before you spout crap
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2008.08.26 08:39:00 - [21] Edited by: Akita T on 26/08/2008 08:40:12 Originally by: kor anon UK from the official government census: christian 71.6% no religion 15.5% muslim 2.7% hindu 1% JEDI KNIGHT 0.7% france: France as: Roman Catholic 83-88%, Protestant 2%, Jewish 1% (from 2003) cba to check the rest so please research for yourself before you spout crap Long report (PDF) Belief in ANY GOD by EU country (PNG) Eat that. _ SHOPS \|\| Mission rewards revamp \|\| better nanofix
Haraldhardrade Amarr Pax Amarr	Posted - 2008.08.26 08:47:00 - [22] Originally by: kor anon Isn't it amazing that atheiest are often more zealous than thos who follow religion. Where is your proof that there is no god? How can you disprove something you cant prove? Its impossible. Please, disprove Valhalla for me. If you cant, then maybe Valhalla really do exist, right? God, is just fiction. Unless you belive in angels and revelations. Do you belive in angels and revelations? Quote: And religions are often useful, as they encourage good moral standards because when they do something bad, it is not only against the law but a sin also. Religions are also good for a stable governments (and by stable i mean autocratic rule). Pure and utter non sense. The mormon church in the states believed that Africans had no soul, and couldn't enter heaven right up until the 1960's. The Bible greenlight5s genocide and slavery. What you are doing is cherry picking. You are picking out the parts that fits the moral zeitgeist of today, and turn a blind eye to all the bigotry thats written. Quote: You should probable realise that all goverments no matter their original policies will move towards the right. This isn't evil this is just what they do You talk a lot about proof. Yet I haven't seen any evidence that can support this claim. Caveo of Minmatar , torva vacuus regimen of deus es plurrimi periculosus of bestia
kor anon Amarr Ministry of War	Posted - 2008.08.26 08:51:00 - [23] Originally by: Haraldhardrade You talk a lot about proof. Yet I haven't seen any evidence that can support this claim. The proof is all around us. Name one country/ civilisation that hasn't been based on blood. Can you? I didn't think so
Haraldhardrade Amarr Pax Amarr	Posted - 2008.08.26 08:56:00 - [24] Edited by: Haraldhardrade on 26/08/2008 08:56:13 Originally by: kor anon Originally by: Haraldhardrade You talk a lot about proof. Yet I haven't seen any evidence that can support this claim. The proof is all around us. Name one country/ civilisation that hasn't been based on blood. Can you? I didn't think so you are confused. I replied to your other post. That all goverments no matter their original policies will move towards the right. edit : Nice of you to ignore my refutal of your points btw. Caveo of Minmatar , torva vacuus regimen of deus es plurrimi periculosus of bestia
kor anon Amarr Ministry of War	Posted - 2008.08.26 09:13:00 - [25] Originally by: Haraldhardrade Originally by: kor anon Isn't it amazing that atheiest are often more zealous than those who follow religion. Where is your proof that there is no god? How can you disprove something you cant prove? Its impossible. Please, disprove Valhalla for me. If you cant, then maybe Valhalla really do exist, right? God, is just fiction. Unless you belive in angels and revelations. Do you belive in angels and revelations? 1: Exactly right, atheists are just afraid to accept that there are somethings that cannot be explained. I try to look on both sides of the argument, and as you can see im not siding with one or the other. My arguements can be applied to both sides. No proof that god exists, no proof that he doesn't. Live with it, there are always things that we cannot fully know for certain. And who are YOU to judge which is right and which is wrong. My arguement is that we don't know, we may never know. I have learn't to accept that have you? No i dont believe in angels and the like, but i can never know for certain. Quote: And religions are often useful, as they encourage good moral standards because when they do something bad, it is not only against the law but a sin also. Religions are also good for a stable governments (and by stable i mean autocratic rule). Pure and utter non sense. The mormon church in the states believed that Africans had no soul, and couldn't enter heaven right up until the 1960's. The Bible greenlight5s genocide and slavery. What you are doing is cherry picking. You are picking out the parts that fits the moral zeitgeist of today, and turn a blind eye to all the bigotry thats written. Oh really where were our morals before religion? Let me see, let me see, oh yeah there wasn't. And all the countries today whether you like it or not, had a religious background, and those morals they uphold today are a result from religious belief. As to the examples above so the ** what? Last time I checked we did those things regardless of religion. Remember **, he killed 11M people because of Eugenics because black people, jews, and poles, were considered untermenshen. So by your logic science must be evil and disgusting etc, because science was used to approve atrocities. Quote:** You should probable realise that all goverments no matter their original policies will move towards the right. This isn't evil this is just what they do You talk a lot about proof. Yet I haven't seen any evidence that can support this claim. My mistake for the mis-explanation. The us government with the patriot act, the plethora of new laws in UK regarding surveillance, the idea of imposing curfew. that to name a few. I also seem to remember France having a revolution to uphold freedom etc. Yet are their people free, they may have the freedom to vote but after that they have absolutely zero choice whatsoever
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2008.08.26 09:16:00 - [26] Originally by: kor anon My mistake for the mis-explanation. The us government with the patriot act, the plethora of new laws in UK regarding surveillance, the idea of imposing curfew. that to name a few. I also seem to remember France having a revolution to uphold freedom etc. Yet are their people free, they may have the freedom to vote but after that they have absolutely zero choice whatsoever So who DOES have a choice then ? _ SHOPS \|\| Mission rewards revamp \|\| better nanofix
kor anon Amarr Ministry of War	Posted - 2008.08.26 09:18:00 - [27] Originally by: Akita T Originally by: kor anon My mistake for the mis-explanation. The us government with the patriot act, the plethora of new laws in UK regarding surveillance, the idea of imposing curfew. that to name a few. I also seem to remember France having a revolution to uphold freedom etc. Yet are their people free, they may have the freedom to vote but after that they have absolutely zero choice whatsoever So who DOES have a choice then ? absolutely no one
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2008.08.26 09:19:00 - [28] Originally by: kor anon absolutely no one "Your" religion states otherwise That everybody DOES have a "free will". _ SHOPS \|\| Mission rewards revamp \|\| better nanofix
kor anon Amarr Ministry of War	Posted - 2008.08.26 09:20:00 - [29] Originally by: Akita T Originally by: kor anon absolutely no one "Your" religion states otherwise That everybody DOES have a "free will". I say again NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Haraldhardrade Amarr Pax Amarr	Posted - 2008.08.26 09:25:00 - [30] Originally by: kor anon 1: Exactly right, atheists are just afraid to accept that there are somethings that cannot be explained. Like what, people walking on water, burning bushes, people waking up from the dead? Please elaborate. Quote: No proof that god exists, no proof that he doesn't. Live with it, there are always things that we cannot fully know for certain. And who are YOU to judge which is right and which is wrong. My arguement is that we don't know, we may never know. I have learn't to accept that have you? I judge from evidence, not because some illiterate ignoramus had a personal revelation thousands of year ago. Quote: No i dont believe in angels and the like, but i can never know for certain. Why would anyone belive in anything that cant be proved? Quote: Oh really where were our morals before religion? Let me see, let me see, oh yeah there wasn't. And all the countries today whether you like it or not, had a religious background, and those morals they uphold today are a result from religious belief. What? Are you sayng that humans took great pleasure in killing, stealing, whoring until the day when god stepped in and said 'ok you got to cut that shit out'? You dont have to be religius, or even heard of religion, to have emphaty. Quote: As to the examples above so the ** what? Last time I checked we did those things regardless of religion. Remember **, he killed 11M people because of Eugenics because black people, jews, and poles, were considered untermenshen. So by your logic science must be evil and disgusting etc, because science was used to approve atrocities. ** was a roman-cahtolic. Just google ** and catholic or church, and you will find dusins of pictures of him and his vatican buddies. Your eugenics argument is a strawman, you might as well argue that car makers are wrong for inventing cars that are used in bank robberies or hit and runs. Your arguments are not coherent. Quote:** The us government with the patriot act, the plethora of new laws in UK regarding surveillance, the idea of imposing curfew. that to name a few. Are those right leaning politics? Seems to remember that leaft leaning Stalin was also good at surveilance. Caveo of Minmatar , torva vacuus regimen of deus es plurrimi periculosus of bestia

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