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Grozen
Caldari
Bulgarian Experienced Crackers
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Posted - 2008.08.26 17:40:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Grozen on 26/08/2008 17:44:21
I've simply been amazed how many people manufructure items and they offer them below their production cost for freaking sake calculate your costs before you enter the price, infact you should do it before you even put the item for manufructuring.
Also don't put your item for profit like 3-4m when you can make 7-8 out of it easy because placing it lower won't help you i will still outbid you. But when im out manufructuring you can sell those items and get money fair enough eh?
knowledge is power |
Dread Phantom
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2008.08.26 17:53:00 -
[2]
So you undercut people selling too cheap and they are the noobs?
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Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2008.08.26 17:54:00 -
[3]
Firstly, this is not a troll.
Okay, statements of this kind have been posted yet again and again and again. And to no effect.
Why?
Not necessarily because the people you are talking about are dumb but, perhaps, because you are.
If someone is underselling themselves, buy them out, re-list. If you can't support that and they can, whose the dummy now?
To Shar -verb:
1 - To say what you mean.
2 - To say what it means.
3 - To say something mean. |
ZW Dewitt
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Posted - 2008.08.26 17:55:00 -
[4]
Who says they are manufacturing them?
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Dragonz Fire
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Posted - 2008.08.26 18:35:00 -
[5]
obviously there is some kind of profit to be made...
who says that they are buying their minerals? maybe they mine...
if they do buy their minerals who says they are buying their minerals in jita? maybe they buy their minerals really cheap in unknown systems.
you don't know their production cost.
stop whining.
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Absimi Liard
Gallente
Confederate Miners Union of Eve
space weaponry and trade
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Posted - 2008.08.26 18:40:00 -
[6]
I'm in agreement with the folks who said you don't the production cost of someone else's items.
I'm also of the opinion that there are perfectly valid, if rare, reasons to list items at below cost. A desperate need for liquid ISK comes to mind.
Lastly, if you buy my goods, at any price I've listed them at, then thanks. I assure I almost never price below cost, and I know my costs VERY precisely, but even if I do I'd rather get the sale than have the goods sit on market going stale.
Have a good EVE.
-abs
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Aemun Anarch
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Posted - 2008.08.26 18:42:00 -
[7]
Maybe they are tempting someone to undercut them so they can buy things on the cheap. Maybe they bought them for 10% of sell value on some other market. Maybe they do it to spite you.
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SencneS
Amarr
Rebellion Against big Irreversible Dinks
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Posted - 2008.08.26 20:21:00 -
[8]
 Originally by: SencneS
I post the following as an Individual and not representative of EBANK, BSA, either organizations members or their affiliates.
Scenario number 10450340 and 1...
Long term attempt at price hiking.
You make and sell items for slightly less then it costs to make them, you maintain this until you're the only one in the area that bothers selling that items. Then you jack the price up. This will not only cover your small loss but will net you more then if you had just remained in competition with others by maintaining small margins.
Amarr for Life |
Elaine Celeste
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Posted - 2008.08.26 21:18:00 -
[9]
Originally by: ZW Dewitt
Who says they are manufacturing them?
CELESTE LOTTERIES: Where losing is almost harder than winning... almost. |
Petyr Baelich
Taggart Transdimensional
Virtue of Selfishness
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Posted - 2008.08.26 21:39:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Shar Tegral
Firstly, this is not a troll.
Okay, statements of this kind have been posted yet again and again and again. And to no effect.
Why?
Not necessarily because the people you are talking about are dumb but, perhaps, because you are.
If someone is underselling themselves, buy them out, re-list. If you can't support that and they can, whose the dummy now?
^^ This. Complaining about people selling "too cheaply" in here is akin to complaining that your enemies aren't fitting their ships properly. If you feel someone is behaving irrationally and incorrectly, use that to your advantage. If you can't do that, maybe you're the one who's being irrational.
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Petyr Baelich
Taggart Transdimensional
Virtue of Selfishness
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Posted - 2008.08.26 21:45:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Dragonz Fire
who says that they are buying their minerals? maybe they mine...
Mining minerals yourself is cheaper than buying them off the market at a rate inversely proportional to the value you place on your own time.
Originally by: Dragonz Fire
if they do buy their minerals who says they are buying their minerals in jita? maybe they buy their minerals really cheap in unknown systems.
Hauling minerals from "unknown" systems is cheaper than buying them off the market in Jita at a rate inversely... see the pattern yet? :)
Originally by: Dragonz Fire
you don't know their concept of value.
Fixed it for you.
Originally by: Dragonz Fire
stop whining.
We agree here, at least.
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Lexander Morinex
Caldari
LDD Investments
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Posted - 2008.08.26 22:00:00 -
[12]
It is frustrating for people to sell items below production costs, but there is neither anything fundamentally unethical about it, nor is it somehow wrong. People often construct things worth less than the cost of making.
It does seem silly to manufacture something that is worth less than the sum of the parts. Except for volume reasons I can't think of why I would bother. But it isn't necessarily a 'noob' action either. It can be a very sophisticated form of market control, or just a nasty move.
- Lexander Morinex
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Shadarle
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Posted - 2008.08.26 22:56:00 -
[13]
Never underestimate the stupidity of most players.
I'm going to go bang my head on the wall now because we have yet another person who thinks mined minerals are free 
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Absimi Liard
Gallente
Confederate Miners Union of Eve
space weaponry and trade
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Posted - 2008.08.27 13:21:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Shadarle
I'm going to go bang my head on the wall now because we have yet another person who thinks mined minerals are free
Oh c'mon Shadarle.
We're here in MD, not over in Sci & Ind. Here you're supposed to gloat over how profitable buying from such fools and then re-selling or reprocessing is. 
It's over in S&I that you're supposed to bang your head against the wall because we're all just so damned dumb. 
-abs
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Clair Bear
Coalition of Nations
Free Trade Zone.
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Posted - 2008.08.28 01:46:00 -
[15]
1. Minerals I mine are free.
2. Modules I get off of rats or other players are free.
3. Datacores are free.
4. ISK I get from rat bounties are free.
All of these are true statements in that I exchange no currency, virtual or otherwise for the goods mentioned above. I believe in getting more free stuff for my free stuff, but others may have dissenting opinions.
And oh yes, what everyone else said re: buying and relisting. If it's not worth doing then the 'noobs' priced correctly.
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Wieting Foyu
Gallente
Federal Defence Union
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Posted - 2008.08.28 02:44:00 -
[16]
UM.. how come no one mentioned that their buy orders were filled and it cost under 2% to put back on the market? Just because you were undercut by someone doesn't mean they built it, they are just paying the listing fees and not just using "free" materials. Give up trading.. Caldari are only good at mission farming anyway
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Treelox
Amarr
Market Jihadist Revolutionary Party
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Posted - 2008.08.28 03:36:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Clair Bear
1. Minerals I mine are free.
2. Modules I get off of rats or other players are free.
3. Datacores are free.
4. ISK I get from rat bounties are free.
All of these are true statements in that I exchange no currency, virtual or otherwise for the goods mentioned above. I believe in getting more free stuff for my free stuff, but others may have dissenting opinions.
For me, my time is a currency of worth both virtually and otherwise. My time has worth, ergo the time I took to get those bounties, ores, modules and datacores makes them have value.
--
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Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2008.08.28 08:27:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Treelox
For me, my time is a currency of worth both virtually and otherwise. My time has worth, ergo the time I took to get those bounties, ores, modules and datacores makes them have value.
At its simplest: Either you value your time and efforts or you don't. Doesn't make a difference if your value scale compares to someone else's, just do you or don't you? That is the common ground basis for most of this discussion. So if you don't, we have nothing to discuss with such an alien being.
To Shar -verb:
1 - To say what you mean.
2 - To say what it means.
3 - To say something mean. |
Treelox
Amarr
Market Jihadist Revolutionary Party
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Posted - 2008.08.28 08:32:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Shar Tegral
So if you don't, we have nothing to discuss with such an alien being.
We could always discuss the validty of this time honored forumla
--
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Danari
Syncore
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Posted - 2008.08.28 09:42:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Danari on 28/08/2008 09:45:17
Originally by: Shadarle
Never underestimate the stupidity of most players.
Speaking of the stupidity of, well, you, there's a large faction deathstar out there that you probably didn't want anyway, that, well, I know you refuelled because it's been a month since I popped the last one. How stupid do you think it is to fuel a tower only to have me pay to get it popped with you logged in local? The reinforce timer says "18 hours until idiot loses more isk".
So, yes, never underestimate the stupidity of shadfail.
Go ahead, anchor more space trash that you "didn't want anyway".
Meanwhile I'll stop market pvp griefing you when I run out of isk in 50 or 60 years lawlz.
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Emporia Tzard
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Posted - 2008.08.28 10:25:00 -
[21]
I don't understand when people say that mined ore is free therefore I can sell cheaply.
When you can sell the ore or minerals for more ISK that you'd make by producing a module then selling it under price on the market, then why would you go through the hassle of producing it?
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Inoshuu
Caldari
Lance Heavy Industries
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Posted - 2008.08.28 12:24:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Clair Bear
1. Minerals I mine are free.
2. Modules I get off of rats or other players are free.
3. Datacores are free.
4. ISK I get from rat bounties are free.
All of these are true statements in that I exchange no currency, virtual or otherwise for the goods mentioned above. I believe in getting more free stuff for my free stuff, but others may have dissenting opinions.
And oh yes, what everyone else said re: buying and relisting. If it's not worth doing then the 'noobs' priced correctly.
You're saying that any mining company in RL mines for free? No expenses? That's where you're wrong, you must mine to pay off that sexy hulk of yours, to pay off all the skills you've purchahsed to train up to use the hulk along with the valueable time you've spent on mining.
It's like you're saying that you work for free...nice, can I hire you in RL?
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Clair Bear
Coalition of Nations
Free Trade Zone.
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Posted - 2008.08.28 15:25:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Clair Bear on 28/08/2008 15:29:00
Originally by: Inoshuu
It's like you're saying that you work for free...nice, can I hire you in RL?
Reading comprehension, people. I said I prefer *MORE* free stuff for my free stuff, but I can see how others might believe otherwise.
This is a recreational activity (unless you sell in game assets for real currency, in which case I loathe you). Some people like to spend their $15/month or ISK equivalent camping gates or shooting POSes. Some like AFK cloaking all day. Some like to stare at rocks.
End result: cost/benefit analysis may use a different input for the benefit side than the one you're using. Deal with it and profit from it if you can.
There's a guy I suicided last time I was in empire. He was mining ice with a rigged hulk. 200+M ship to earn what, 2M/hour? Compare *that* to any 'noob' making ships from 'free' minerals.
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Bambi
Existentialist Collective
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Posted - 2008.08.28 16:12:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Shadarle
Never underestimate the stupidity of most players.
As Einstien said "the most abundant thing in the universe apart for hydrogen is stupidity"
If people are selling stuff well below the build cost, just buy out thier stock and recycle or resell it all
EVE is dead, long live EVE!
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Shadarle
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Posted - 2008.08.28 17:17:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Clair Bear
There's a guy I suicided last time I was in empire. He was mining ice with a rigged hulk. 200+M ship to earn what, 2M/hour? Compare *that* to any 'noob' making ships from 'free' minerals.
Would he be less stupid to mine ice in a crappier ship?
And the last time I checked (which was a year ago), mining ice was a pretty decent way to make money in high-sec. Perhaps this has changed, but I fail to see why mining Ice in a hulk is stupid. That's like saying someone is stupid for running level 3 missions in a nighthawk with faction fittings. Sure, he may be able to do level 4's... but perhaps he is afk a lot and doesn't want to take risks. It's never stupid to use the biggest baddest ship you can fly if it makes you more money or allows you to do something AFK instead of forcing you to actively participate all day long.
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Clair Bear
Coalition of Nations
Free Trade Zone.
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Posted - 2008.08.28 19:58:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Clair Bear on 28/08/2008 19:57:49
Originally by: Shadarle
Would he be less stupid to mine ice in a crappier ship?
Yes.
Quote:
And the last time I checked (which was a year ago), mining ice was a pretty decent way to make money in high-sec. Perhaps this has changed, but I fail to see why mining Ice in a hulk is stupid. That's like saying someone is stupid for running level 3 missions in a nighthawk with faction fittings. Sure, he may be able to do level 4's... but perhaps he is afk a lot and doesn't want to take risks. It's never stupid to use the biggest baddest ship you can fly if it makes you more money or allows you to do something AFK instead of forcing you to actively participate all day long.
In the last two years there hasn't been a single time when empire ice mining reached over 6M/hour. It's currently between 2 and 3M/hour.
As far as playing eve AFK in a defenseless, valuable, paper-thin ship -- well, now he's at least 100 hours of 'fun' in the hole with that 'risk free' activity. The macrointel killboard guestimates almost 300M loss. If he had been unrigged or in a mack or mining veld in a covetor I'd have probably moved on.
I completely disagree regarding pimping out never being stupid -- feel free to fit a CNR with the best faction gear you can afford. I'll guarantee you'll run missions faster than anyone else while AFK. At least once or twice.
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Qaedienne
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Posted - 2008.08.29 02:39:00 -
[27]
Man this board has gone downhill. We get these threads like once a week now.
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GHO57
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Posted - 2008.08.30 11:38:00 -
[28]
1. I scramble your fully fitted drake on the belt - cost is what... let's say 50-mil.
2. I tell you to giv me 10mils and u can save your pod - u eject from drake and u don't get a loss mail for it. So I get a fully fitted drake for what... 300k ISK - the cost of ammo.
3. I Sell you your own fully fitted drake for 40 mils out of compassion.
4. U get killed by another gang 3 jumps later, they take your T2 loot and sell it on market cuz they use faction and do not need the shtz.
And so on... 
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Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2008.08.30 14:12:00 -
[29]
I'm not fully upto speed on leetspeak. Does GHO57 translate as Lame? Because if I went by context and guessing... ...
To Shar -verb:
1 - To say what you mean.
2 - To say what it means.
3 - To say something mean. |
Roguehalo
Caldari
State Protectorate
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Posted - 2008.08.30 17:38:00 -
[30]
Originally by: GHO57
1. I scramble your fully fitted drake on the belt - cost is what... let's say 50-mil.
2. I tell you to giv me 10mils and u can save your pod - u eject from drake and u don't get a loss mail for it. So I get a fully fitted drake for what... 300k ISK - the cost of ammo.
3. I Sell you your own fully fitted drake for 40 mils out of compassion.
4. U get killed by another gang 3 jumps later, they take your T2 loot and sell it on market cuz they use faction and do not need the shtz.
And so on...
buying and selling lots and lots of drakes and making 3m a time seems a lot easier
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