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No more true 0.0?

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Phoenix Noir	Posted - 2008.08.26 21:08:00 - [1] Does anyone else feel that 0.0 does not really exist in eve anymore? Instead of going from Concord protected space to the unknown, you go to a different Alliance/Corporation protected space and as long as you have good relations with them you are just as protected as if your were flying in 1.0 sec space (Well not quite but you know what i mean) Alliances can set standings just the same as concord can and will hunt down criminals just the same. In Eve there is only Consequence, and that can be provided by anybody. Are alot of people starting to lose the feel of the unknown wild of 0.0? Do you make sure to talk to the regional corp CEO before you go adventuring? Is this even fixable? opinions?
Haradgrim Tyrell Corp INTERDICTION	Posted - 2008.08.26 21:14:00 - [2] Originally by: Phoenix Noir Does anyone else feel that 0.0 does not really exist in eve anymore? Instead of going from Concord protected space to the unknown, you go to a different Alliance/Corporation protected space and as long as you have good relations with them you are just as protected as if your were flying in 1.0 sec space (Well not quite but you know what i mean) Alliances can set standings just the same as concord can and will hunt down criminals just the same. In Eve there is only Consequence, and that can be provided by anybody. Are alot of people starting to lose the feel of the unknown wild of 0.0? Do you make sure to talk to the regional corp CEO before you go adventuring? Is this even fixable? opinions? That sort of enviroment should be the goal of most alliances in 0.0, however, if you go into hostile space thats not the case. Now if you only carebear in your alliance/coallition's sovreign space I can see why you say that but I wouldnt say its typical of most 0.0 players or alliances. -- Originally by: CCP Oveur ...every forum whine feels like a baby pony is getting killed
Ethen Bejorn	Posted - 2008.08.26 21:18:00 - [3] CCP needs to add like 8 new 0.0 regions.
Saint Lazarus Spiorad ag fanaiocht	Posted - 2008.08.26 21:32:00 - [4] Are you implying most Allainces have CONCORD like efficeny getting people out of their space? Not from my experience, its easy to slip in and out, the real protection comes from local, means its pretty impossible to sneak up on folks so alot dont try. Dosent mean they cant -----------------
Somealt Ofmine	Posted - 2008.08.26 21:42:00 - [5] Edited by: Somealt Ofmine on 26/08/2008 21:47:03 Edited by: Somealt Ofmine on 26/08/2008 21:46:22 Edited by: Somealt Ofmine on 26/08/2008 21:44:51 CCP made a couple of changes during the "Big War" that lead to this. First, it looked like BoB was about to wipe out Red/Goons and the remote DD nerf came riding to the rescue. Then, BoB surely would have been steamrolled if newly introduced cyno-jammers hadn't saved their bacon. You're not going to see sweeping changes to sov until they radically change the mechanics. The current mechanics heavily favor stability and consolidation of power under a few "super-entities" I'd love to see a new set of mechanics come out that favor: Lots of stuff getting blown up Exponential increase in difficulty in claiming and holding more space No alliance in 0.0 being obcenely wealthy enough to field hundreds of caps and dozens of titans. splitting up the blob and attacking multiple objectives simultaneously in order to defend or take sov. They are talking about a radical rework in F&I right now. Who knows when we might see it though.
Siberys Gallente Nebula Sharks	Posted - 2008.08.26 21:43:00 - [6] Yea... I spent two hours going down to 0.0, and so far all that's happened is I killed a few rats, and took some pretty pictures of stations. That was it.
Dirk Magnum Spearhead Endeavors	Posted - 2008.08.26 21:51:00 - [7] Players made 0.0 seem safe (although I'd love to know which region offers CONCORD-like protection.) The sandbox is working as intended. People didn't have to organize vast alliances and secure huge tracts of space, but they did. If 0.0 doesn't feel like an empty wilderness anymore then so what? Now recruiting! Click FFS! :X
Siberys Gallente Nebula Sharks	Posted - 2008.08.26 21:53:00 - [8] Originally by: Dirk Magnum Players made 0.0 seem safe (although I'd love to know which region offers CONCORD-like protection.) The sandbox is working as intended. People didn't have to organize vast alliances and secure huge tracts of space, but they did. If 0.0 doesn't feel like an empty wilderness anymore then so what? Blackskull legion has extended concord like revenge tactics, as one of my friends told me. You pod someone, and they will mericlessly hunt you down. Can't wait to see how dedicated they are
Somealt Ofmine	Posted - 2008.08.26 21:56:00 - [9] Originally by: Siberys Blackskull legion has extended concord like revenge tactics, as one of my friends told me. You pod someone, and they will mericlessly hunt you down. Can't wait to see how dedicated they are When they successfully petition to move all the major trade hubs and L4 agents to their space, maybe they'll succeed. Then again, if they succeed, someone will just kick their ass and take it.
Siberys Gallente Nebula Sharks	Posted - 2008.08.26 21:58:00 - [10] Originally by: Somealt Ofmine Originally by: Siberys Blackskull legion has extended concord like revenge tactics, as one of my friends told me. You pod someone, and they will mericlessly hunt you down. Can't wait to see how dedicated they are When they successfully petition to move all the major trade hubs and L4 agents to their space, maybe they'll succeed. Then again, if they succeed, someone will just kick their ass and take it. Yea. 30 peeps ain't much of a police force, even when they're all on.
Davina Braben	Posted - 2008.08.26 22:01:00 - [11] Nope. You don't get tackled by recons and then brutalised by nano'd up HACs and CS in 1.0
Christina Bamar Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2008.08.26 22:35:00 - [12] Nope. You don't get to tackle people with recons and then brutalize them with nano'd up HACs and CS in 1.0.
Alora Venoda GalTech Giant Space Amoeba	Posted - 2008.08.26 22:43:00 - [13] to break up the multi-region sov alliances and allow smaller alliances a "way in" they should implement some kind of "faction" or "coalition" function in-game, basically an alliance of alliances... this would make it much easier to keep blue-lists in sync between all the different alliances, etc. it would also provide a platform for the overlords to set terms of membership, and possibly even enforce them through in-game features. if nothing else, it would help bring the members of the existing coalitions together as an actual "player empire". ~~~~ ~~~~ ~~~~ Take away the risk and it would make flying around in space utterly pointless. Take away the flying around part and you make EVE into a space themed spreadsheet application.
Cold FIsh	Posted - 2008.08.26 23:13:00 - [14] Originally by: Phoenix Noir Does anyone else feel that 0.0 does not really exist in eve anymore? Instead of going from Concord protected space to the unknown, you go to a different Alliance/Corporation protected space and as long as you have good relations with them you are just as protected as if your were flying in 1.0 sec space (Well not quite but you know what i mean) Alliances can set standings just the same as concord can and will hunt down criminals just the same. In Eve there is only Consequence, and that can be provided by anybody. Are alot of people starting to lose the feel of the unknown wild of 0.0? Do you make sure to talk to the regional corp CEO before you go adventuring? Is this even fixable? opinions? this was the point of 0.0
Somealt Ofmine	Posted - 2008.08.26 23:18:00 - [15] Originally by: Alora Venoda to break up the multi-region sov alliances and allow smaller alliances a "way in" they should implement some kind of "faction" or "coalition" function in-game, basically an alliance of alliances... this would make it much easier to keep blue-lists in sync between all the different alliances, etc. it would also provide a platform for the overlords to set terms of membership, and possibly even enforce them through in-game features. if nothing else, it would help bring the members of the existing coalitions together as an actual "player empire". Huh? The way to give the little guys a shot is by introducing mechanics that allow the power-blocs to solidify their power?
Jaabaa Prime Minmatar Quam Singulari	Posted - 2008.08.26 23:19:00 - [16] Originally by: Phoenix Noir ... drivel ... If you want to take a 0.0 "region/constellation/solar system" then do something about it, like leading/forming a counter alliance for the contested area. But please, until you get that far, please refrain from posting this kind of drivel just because you expect 0.0 to be "free space". If you want it, I think you'll have to fight for it --
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2008.08.26 23:20:00 - [17] Working as intended - DesuSigs
diabolic clone Amarr Anomaly Collective	Posted - 2008.08.27 01:30:00 - [18] Flying into protected 0.0 space where the alliances have set up stations is a bad idea, the pirate npc regions however are practically ghost towns with a few exceptions whenever I go to them. Usually heavy traffic on the way but see way less faces when you get there than the crowded regions where people think they are protected in. Those giant power block alliances that own large portions of the map? they aint there all the time, its probably rented, don't mess with their towers and they probably wont give half a flying **** if you move in and start aggression against their renters, kinda pointless though without being able to set up a tower to stage out of and they will get a mail notification you've done that. Zero sec isn't as packed as you think it is, although your not going to find a deserted place where no one is going to want to go to look for you because PVP'rs can't pvp without other players. Oh and asking permission? pointless, there is one 0.0 powerblock that runs Not Red Don't Shoot which is pretty much the only type of alliance I'd bother asking since they wont outright be sarcastic, and I am my own faction now not negotiating joining or paying another for what I want because its most likely more than they can offer. I stick to my own business and if they don't like me doing it in their area, they are welcome to Try and stop me if they want to waste the time and resources, there are much bigger fish to fry. Of course they mess with my business enough I'd make it my business to mess with the profits or operations anyway I can, even if it comes down to infiltrating them for voice comms during an important op with a soundboard. Primary target is a-- Hello I'm Arnold Shwartzenegar WHAT THE FBOOOOOOOOM HAHAHAHAHAHA let me speak to your mother.
Zeba Minmatar Pator Tech School	Posted - 2008.08.27 01:43:00 - [19] Originally by: Ethen Bejorn CCP needs to add like 8 new 0.0 regions. /this 0.0 was the great untamed wilderness waaay back when it was an event to have 10k online at once. Now everyone and his 4 alts are in 0.0. (me included. ) inappropriate signature. ~WeatherMan
Aramova Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.08.27 02:44:00 - [20] Originally by: Somealt Ofmine Edited by: Somealt Ofmine on 26/08/2008 21:47:29 CCP made a couple of changes during the "Big War" that lead to this. First, it looked like BoB was about to wipe out Red/Goons and the remote DD nerf came riding to the rescue. Then, BoB surely would have been steamrolled if newly introduced cyno-jammers hadn't saved their bacon. You're not going to see sweeping changes to sov until they radically change the mechanics. The current mechanics heavily favor stability and consolidation of power under a few "super-entities" I'd love to see a new set of mechanics come out that favor: Lots of stuff getting blown up Exponential increase in difficulty in claiming and holding more space No alliance in 0.0 being obcenely wealthy enough to field hundreds of caps and dozens of titans. splitting up the blob and attacking multiple objectives simultaneously in order to defend or take sov. They are talking about a radical rework in F&I right now. Who knows when we might see it though. Yeah, we all know Cyno Jammers cannot be killed, Bob proved that. All you need is a Titan or two in system and that system cannot be taken. Yup. That's true. Meanwhile in VFK... ________________________________
Soren PAK	Posted - 2008.08.27 03:08:00 - [21] Originally by: Ethen Bejorn CCP needs to add like 8 new 0.0 regions. No.. CCP needs to remove empire highways and smuggler gates. Makes eve much bigger without adding anything ☠-->-->--
Somealt Ofmine	Posted - 2008.08.27 03:56:00 - [22] Edited by: Somealt Ofmine on 27/08/2008 03:59:40 Originally by: Aramova Yeah, we all know Cyno Jammers cannot be killed, Bob proved that. All you need is a Titan or two in system and that system cannot be taken. Yup. That's true. Meanwhile in VFK... Didn't say they can't be killed. Did say they saved your bacon, which they did. Without them you'd have easily been blobbed to death, just like LV was. You might not think so, but that's alright. Opinions do vary. Quote: On a side note, Empire-like control of 0.0 was the intent of CCP from the start. Look at some of the old dev blogs and read up on it. There has even been talk of locking gates, sentry guns, things like that for awhile now. I don't think we'll see alot of that, at least in quite some time. A stable, empire like 0.0 is kinda bad for business. It is for my business anyway. If you happen to be the "empire" I suppose it's attractive. Doesn't bode all that well for attracting new players to the game though. Quote: Expanded 0.0, yes. They'll do that, hell they have TV ads running on Scifi channel so we know there are more people coming into game, more people in game means higher population to fit into 0.0 That'll be cool as long as they don't introduce another ghetto. Quote: I remember when you could roam 0.0 for days and not see another soul. It's changed a lot, but for the better. And things will just get more interesting. I guess our definitions of "better" just differ. If you want to play a game that actually plays like a game, I'd say it's substantially worse. If you want an environment where you can demonstrate that your ability to bring and manage lag, and your will put up with it for hours as long as you "win" exceeds that of the other guy, yeah, it's f'n awesome. But what do I know? I've been a carebear since '05 when the lag-wars began in earnest. If they ever fix it, I'll be back, but I'm not playing a broken game for the sake of e-peen. Just not that important to me.
Alrich	Posted - 2008.08.27 06:56:00 - [23] is it positive to get mission agents to an outpost or POS? there needs to be some way other than to claim vast amounts of systems to get a valid income for an alliance's members. as it is now, most systems cant support more tan max a few players at a time
ApaKaka Lone Starr Corporation	Posted - 2008.08.27 07:03:00 - [24] More NPC 0.0 - or half NPC/half no-sov - regions imo. Adding more pure 0.0 regions will only mean the bordering powerblocs will just extend their space into that space, and it will quickly be the same as any other 0.0. NPC 0.0 or half-NPC (like Delve) will mean that a lot of smaller gang entities will live there and fight and have fun and the real 0.0 close by will become harder to defend because the npc space is a good staging point for attackers.
Lyvv Amarr Personal Vendetta Vendetta Alliance.	Posted - 2008.08.27 08:31:00 - [25] Edited by: Lyvv on 27/08/2008 08:32:06 Originally by: Davina Braben Nope. You don't get tackled by recons and then brutalised by nano'd up HACs and CS in 1.0 1) If they were war-targets and happen to find you in high-sec, they would. 2) If they are in 0.0, they probably have access to a station, have carriers or other heavy shit in place. 3) Brutalized? The purpose of a HAC gang is to move fast in case you need to get out and to speed-tank. A CS doesn't move fast and would get left behind. I don't know a single CS pilot that wants to sit in a safe spot somewhere while his buddies are tallying up the kills. So please, don't project the idea that all HAC gangs are traveling with CS Bonus, they don't, not unless they are indigenous to the area, or are pretty confident their opponents will get smashed, or, last option of course, they count on the CS getting owned.
Glengrant TOHA Heavy Industries	Posted - 2008.08.27 09:18:00 - [26] Dude, log off the test server or whereever you are because it's clear you're not playing on Tranquility or I don't know where your perceptions come from. Originally by: Somealt Ofmine You're not going to see sweeping changes to sov until they radically change the mechanics. The current mechanics heavily favor stability and consolidation of power under a few "super-entities" You very much misunderstand the situation. It's not the "mechanics" that favour large entities. It's psychology. And CCP hesitates to introduce brainwashing features due to some silly RL legal issues. ;-) Re the implied claim that there no sweeping changes to sov - LOL. Have a look at the history of the political maps. Somebody combined a lot of them into an animation. BoB amd Goons are exceptions. Untold alliances have risen and fallen. How many even remember ASCN - the (then) biggest alliance ever and first producer of a Titan? And how many alliances are still where they were founded? Alliances are actually very unstable - both in membership and territory. Originally by: Somealt Ofmine Lots of stuff getting blown up Yeah - all - quiet - nothing getting blown up. ROTFL. Originally by: Somealt Ofmine Exponential increase in difficulty in claiming and holding more space I guess you never had to take care of POS networks or manage a large alliance in any way. Originally by: Somealt Ofmine No alliance in 0.0 being obcenely wealthy enough to field hundreds of caps and dozens of titans. And how exactly do you want this solved? Any income by alliance members above x is removed from wallets? Artificial limits on upper wallet size or no more than n capitals in alliance - next guy who buys/contructs one gets a "Your Alliance has reached the Total Capital Ownership Limit - we are sorry to inform you that you cannot aquire a capital ship at this moment." message? I take it you don't like the sandbox after all. Originally by: Somealt Ofmine splitting up the blob and attacking multiple objectives simultaneously in order to defend or take sov. That feature already exists. Strategy of the invader and possibly Titans. --- ISK BUYER = LOOSER EVE TV- Bring it back!
Ashlee Darksky Minmatar Forum Insurgency	Posted - 2008.08.27 11:09:00 - [27] Originally by: ApaKaka More NPC 0.0 - or half NPC/half no-sov - regions imo. Adding more pure 0.0 regions will only mean the bordering powerblocs will just extend their space into that space, and it will quickly be the same as any other 0.0. NPC 0.0 or half-NPC (like Delve) will mean that a lot of smaller gang entities will live there and fight and have fun and the real 0.0 close by will become harder to defend because the npc space is a good staging point for attackers. I have to agree with this guy... I'm in NPC 0.0 and it's much more fun, quite a few people around, small gangs. Whilst an alliance "holds" this NPC space, there is no sov - so they can only defend it - and no cynos :) I'd like to see more NPC 0.0, with stations, without POS's being anchored. It would mean no running to safety each time a red/neut comes into the system. Apart from going to the station, which then you have to worry about undocking from. Basically a few 0.0 regions that are just belts, planets and some other "stuff" but without any pos, sov, etc.. --- > I see fail everywhere, and it's like they don't even know they're failing > Bring me the heads of 10 carebears, 5 bottles of BBQ sauce, firewood and a box of matches!
Louis DelaBlanche Federal Defence Union	Posted - 2008.08.27 11:15:00 - [28] Originally by: Zeba Originally by: Ethen Bejorn CCP needs to add like 8 new 0.0 regions. /this 0.0 was the great untamed wilderness waaay back when it was an event to have 10k online at once. Now everyone and his 4 alts are in 0.0. (me included. ) New space just means new revanue for old faces.
Duncan MacPherson Minmatar Black Lion Legion	Posted - 2008.08.27 14:09:00 - [29] Originally by: Louis DelaBlanche Originally by: Zeba Originally by: Ethen Bejorn CCP needs to add like 8 new 0.0 regions. /this 0.0 was the great untamed wilderness waaay back when it was an event to have 10k online at once. Now everyone and his 4 alts are in 0.0. (me included. ) New space just means new revenue for old faces. Hey there is always the option of disbanding your corp/alliance and joining everyone into the old boys club. Its prob the biggest complaint I have about EvE. No chance for the little corp or alliance to grab some null space. Unless they secretly gain 1000 members and build a fleet of capitals in low sec. All with out anyone knowing. Till then it will be the old alliances that trade the same space over and over.
Glengrant TOHA Heavy Industries	Posted - 2008.08.27 14:19:00 - [30] There's a bit of truth about deep 0.0 no longer being as wild (i.e. empty) as it used to be. With all the outposts and alliances some deep 0.0 starts to feel like empire space. And that's because it is becoming empire space - player run empires. But don't get confused - it was safer way back in the olden days, because there was nobody a few jumps beyond the chokepoints. It was truly empty (and such - mostly wasted). Hauling ore over 20+ jumps was a PITA - but you were almost totally safe from other players out in the deep deep 0.0. --- ISK BUYER = LOOSER EVE TV- Bring it back!

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