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Mr Mucker
Gallente
Hooride Raiders
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Posted - 2008.08.28 10:00:00 -
[1]
can some please explain what these mean?
i have searched the forums and found similar threads but they are unclear.
Lets just talk about hybrid anitmatter and lead for the moment.
Antimatter has a range bonus of 50 whereas lead has 0.
I want to choose the best ammo for being at range. Based on this I would have though anti matter would be best as it has a range bonus of 50 but everywhere I have read says that lead would be better??
first off what unit is the measurement in? percentage, km or metres?
secondly, as i said i thought that this bonus is ADDED to the range but from what I've read it seams to do the opposite. Can someone explain please?
Also explain the cap need bonus.
thanks in advance.
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ApaKaka
Lone Starr Corporation
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Posted - 2008.08.28 10:13:00 -
[2]
Edited by: ApaKaka on 28/08/2008 10:13:59
Range bonus is a percentage value specifying the bonus (negative or positive) that the ammo will incur when loaded into your guns.
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Dana Su'ul
Caldari
State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.08.28 10:24:00 -
[3]
The item database on here does need some amendments - antimatter actually has -50% range (actual range depending on what calibre hybrids you use), but as such does much more damage than lead.
Lets say your using small 150mm rails which have a optimal range of 12km - using antimatter would bring this down to 6km. Using lead would keep it at 12km. Generally the more damage the ammo does, the shorter the range.
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Mr Mucker
Gallente
Hooride Raiders
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Posted - 2008.08.28 10:38:00 -
[4]
Ah..I see, thanks.
and the cap need bonus?
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Dana Su'ul
Caldari
State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.08.28 10:52:00 -
[5]
Ah yes, some ammo just requires more (or less) capacitor to fire - this has an effect on both the range and damage done for a specific ammo type.
Have a look again through the ammo types, weigh up each attributes and take your pick on which suits your playing style.
For PvE its usually best to keep your distance using rails, so try not to choose anything that keeps you from getting too close (i personally choose thorium/uranium); for PvP it's all about blasters and antimatter to do max damage.
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Mr Mucker
Gallente
Hooride Raiders
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Posted - 2008.08.28 11:06:00 -
[6]
How does this affect dmg or range just because it needs more cap to fire?
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Rafael Cane
Republic University
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Posted - 2008.08.28 11:20:00 -
[7]
If you compare the ammos, youŠll see that ammo using more cap/has a negative range bonus will most often do more damage.
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Myrhial Arkenath
Ghost Festival
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Posted - 2008.08.28 11:22:00 -
[8]
The longer the range of ammo the less damage it tends to do, you can see that in the attributes of the ammo.
Diary of a pod pilot |
Letouk Mernel
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Posted - 2008.08.28 13:33:00 -
[9]
The ammo range bonus or penalty affects the gun Optimal range. Each gun has an Optimal and a Falloff range, and when you put ammo in it, the range is affected by the ammo's specs. +50% ammo range will multiply the gun's listed 15 km by 1.50 resulting in 22.5 km range on the gun.
Long range guns, like, for example, rails, have a looong optimal and a tiny falloff, so adding long range ammo to railguns extends the long optimal making it even longer.
Short range guns like blasters have a short optimal and a longer falloff, so adding short range ammo like antimatter doesn't do much to the already tiny optimal, and leaves the falloff at decent levels so you can still hit at 5-7 km.
As for cap bonus, every time the gun shoots, it uses up capacitor. Lasers use the most, hybrids are in the middle, and projectiles don't use capacitor. How much juice the gun sucks becomes important if you have to maintain an armor repairer, warp jammer, maybe a webifier, AND 4-7 guns... you'll run out of cap, and it helps if you put in ammo that will make your guns suck up less cap. Of course, that kind of ammo has average range and average punch, so it might be meh.
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Baredil
Real Nice And Laidback Corporation
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Posted - 2008.08.28 17:17:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Baredil on 28/08/2008 17:19:01
Simplifying.
150mm rails. Base optimal 12km, base cap requirements 3.34
Lead charge - 0% range bonus, -50% capacitor need bonus. 5hp kinetic damage, 3 hp thermal damage. Thus optimal is still 12km, capacitor requirement drops to 1.6ish cap per shot.
Iron charge - +60% range bonus, -30% cap need bonus. 3hp kin, 2hp therm. Optimal jumps up to 20km, cap requirement ~2.34. More range, less damage, more cap
Antimatter charge - -50% range bonus, no cap bonus, 7hp kin, 5hp thermal. Optimal drops to 6km, cap requirement is the full 3.34 per shot, increased damage.
The other ammo types fall between these, balancing range, damage, and cap requirements to suit your preferences.
Increasing range OR damage from Lead's base numbers increases the cap requirements. I don't think you can do both
The stats in the website's database are not always clear, it hasn't been updated in a while. Looks like the range bonus numbers are expressed in terms of 100%-(bonus)* base, as it shows Iron's bonus as being -60. In-game numbers are a bit clearer.
Actual damage involves the therm and kin numbers multiplied by the gun's damage mod (2.75 in this case), and then modified by a whole whack of other stuff. YMMV.
afaik. 
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Mr Mucker
Gallente
Hooride Raiders
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Posted - 2008.08.29 09:02:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Mr Mucker on 29/08/2008 09:05:26
Edited by: Mr Mucker on 29/08/2008 09:04:10
Edited by: Mr Mucker on 29/08/2008 09:02:41
Thank you all very much for explaining all of this for me.
Next question..
chance to hit mechanics-
- If you shoot outside of the optimal range and within the falloff range there is a chance you won't hit? (forget about tracking for the moment. lets say you can track perfectly).
- What does it mean when it satys: "your shot glances pirate" or "your shot completely misses pirate". Are these messages randomly generated or do they directly relate to how close you are? example, you shoot just outside optimal range it would say you glanced the ship whereas if you are at the limit of the falloff range it would say you completely miss? (again assume that tracking is perfect).
Hit dmg mechanic-
This is a big one I need to know.
- What determines how much dmg you will do? In other MMOPG games it will randomly do dmg between a low and high value. I don't think it works this way in this game.
- Lets say my tracking is perfect and I am in optimal range. If I shoot will it always land?
- If there is no resistance to the type of dmg I am doing will it do full dmg?
- If I shoot within the falloff range does this only affect chance to hit and not damge?In other words if I do hit will it still do full dmg regardless of how far away I am?
thanks again.
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Gartel Reiman
Civis Romanus Sum
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Posted - 2008.08.29 12:01:00 -
[12]
 Originally by: Mr Mucker
If you shoot outside of the optimal range and within the falloff range there is a chance you won't hit? (forget about tracking for the moment. lets say you can track perfectly).
Yes. Anywhere beyond optimal you will get a chance to miss (based on being too far away for your shots to maintain accuracy). The further you go the worse this gets; at optimal + falloff you have about a 50% chance to miss from this alone (still assuming perfect tracking), and at optimal + 2 x falloff this rises to about 97% - so you're missing nearly every shot. The curve isn't exactly linear, but in practice you can make quick calculations based on these points and come up generally OK.
Quote:
What does it mean when it satys: "your shot glances pirate" or "your shot completely misses pirate". Are these messages randomly generated or do they directly relate to how close you are? example, you shoot just outside optimal range it would say you glanced the ship whereas if you are at the limit of the falloff range it would say you completely miss? (again assume that tracking is perfect).
They reflect the 'quality' of your hit, which includes how close your misses are. This is determined by your overall chance to hit and of course your luck with that particular shot. So they don't directly relate to how close you are - but the further past your optimal the target is, the more "miss", "glancing hit" and "lightly hits" etc. you'll get and the less "solid hits".
Quote:
What determines how much dmg you will do? In other MMOPG games it will randomly do dmg between a low and high value. I don't think it works this way in this game.
It's not entirely known, but there is a random deviation for hits from 50% to 150% of the stated value. Occasionally (generally thought to be 1% of all shots, as long as that shot hits) you will score a "wrecking" hit that does ~400% of stated damage. The better your chance to hit is (so broadly speaking, the better your tracking assuming you're in optimal), the better your hits will be, since the shots that miss come from the "good" hits first.
Quote:
Lets say my tracking is perfect and I am in optimal range. If I shoot will it always land?
Yes. But tracking can only be perfect when there is absolutely no transversal velocity between you and the target (generally, this means you're both stationary). Every time there's any transversal at all, tracking comes into play and the chance to hit is never 100%. FYI, the stats on a turret (with regards to angular velocity and signature resolution) reflect the situation where the chance to hit is exactly 50%. Have a look at the tracking guide and in particular play around with the graph at the end. You'll see that tracking is not a simple yes or no formula, it's a curve that never hits 100% chance to hit unless transversal is zero.
Quote:
If there is no resistance to the type of dmg I am doing will it do full dmg?
Well - as noted above there's a way to work out the 'raw' damage of your hit, which is based on the damage modifiers of the weapon, the ammo you're using and the random variance in that particular shot's damage. Then, this damage is applied to the enemy, and their resistances take off whatever is applicable. So yes, in short.
Quote:
If I shoot within the falloff range does this only affect chance to hit and not damge?In other words if I do hit will it still do full dmg regardless of how far away I am?
In theory, yes. However, since your chance to hit affects your quality of hits, you'll find that in practice you tend to get lower-quality hits (more "glancing blows" and "lightly hits"), and thus do slightly less damage on average with the hits that do land. Still, the base damage of your turret is the same, and a hit of a given quality will do the same damage, so I hope you understand why I'm saying "yes" and "no" at the same time. 
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Mr Mucker
Gallente
Hooride Raiders
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Posted - 2008.08.29 14:07:00 -
[13]
Thanks for all the info.
Its all clear now! 
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