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Taters
Minmatar
Einherjar Rising
Cry Havoc.
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Posted - 2008.08.31 01:31:00 -
[1]
I think most people will agree that station hugging is one of the more annoying aspects of trying to get good fights. Find a juicy target on overview, track it down and find its sitting in the middle of a 50km station....then you leave because its not even worth trying.
The current docking/un-docking mechanism isn't ideal in my opinion. People inside the station have no idea whats going on outside, and therefore won't un-dock unless they can safely re-dock. People outside the station can sit in the docking radius safe in the knowledge that if anything bad happens they have a magical 'save me' button.
What i'm suggesting is adding one more step to the undock/re-dock mechanism, the docking bay.
Basically if you are inside the station, instead of going straight out into space, you go into the docking bay. While in the docking bay you are untargetable, but possibly still show up on overview. You can't move or activate anything. It gives a chance to get the regular space UI loaded in safety (removing the undock black screen of petition), and the pilot can see whats going on outside. From the docking bay you can either return back into the station, or continue to undock.
The other main change in the mechanism is an overhaul of the docking aggro timer. Rather than have a time limit before being able to dock, you would be unable to dock while performing a hostile action or having a hostile action performed on you. Its logical to say that the station tugs wouldn't traverse a battlezone to casually tow your ship inside the station
Basically...if you go outside the docking bay, you're free game. This would give a mechanism to allow people to see what is going on (and load the outside environment), and ships that want to hug the station (like they do now) would have to re-dock before they were locked, otherwise they get stuck outside.
Thoughts?
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Ezekiel Amann
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Posted - 2008.08.31 01:44:00 -
[2]
Might be something they would work in whenever the Amulation Patch comes out. But I hardly see it happening now. Good Idea though.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abMEVENz1jQ
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Taters
Minmatar
Einherjar Rising
Cry Havoc.
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Posted - 2008.08.31 01:50:00 -
[3]
It wouldn't need to wait for ambulation really, as there is no graphical changes involved. Just instead of going from Station UI (docked) <-> Space UI (undocked), it would be Station UI (docked) <-> Space UI (docked) <-> Space UI (undocked)
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Allen Ramses
Caldari
Typo Corp
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Posted - 2008.08.31 02:10:00 -
[4]
This is a good idea in concept, but not in execution. There are too many things wrong with docking and undocking for this to work. For starters, what's to stop a station hugger camping in the docking bay until a target they can defeat comes along? Furthermore, considering a good 75% of docking requests are ignored, people legitimately docking will be targeted (as they are now) while they try to get the damn station to respond, and they can be under fire by the time the station operator finally wakes up... but oh well, he says, you were fired upon. No dock for you.
/not signed.
____________________
Pimped out Raven to run level 4 missions quickly: 210 Mil ISK.
Realizing your 120 Mil ISK Drake gets the job done faster: Priceless. |
Taters
Minmatar
Einherjar Rising
Cry Havoc.
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Posted - 2008.08.31 02:29:00 -
[5]
 Originally by: Allen Ramses
Furthermore, considering a good 75% of docking requests are ignored, people legitimately docking will be targeted (as they are now) while they try to get the damn station to respond, and they can be under fire by the time the station operator finally wakes up... but oh well, he says, you were fired upon. No dock for you.
I see this as a separate issue, while it may cause a problem, that problem isn't within my idea. Gates seem to work every time you say jump, so i don't know why stations don't work every time you say dock.
As for the docking bay camper, their 'target' would be able to see that they were in the docking bay, and would have the option of making a run for it or staying docked.
However, in the current system, the camper would be undocked but still within docking range, so they already have space loaded (an advantage over the undocker) and can dock with impunity if anything threatening comes along.
The target has to use an alt to scout the station, or undock and hope for the best (on some stations), or undock and wait for their timer to expire, then redock (stupid undock/redock games that i'm trying to stop)
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Kil'Roy
Minmatar
The Rat Patrol
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Posted - 2008.08.31 05:02:00 -
[6]
Interesting idea.
Combine this with multiple, selectable, station exit points and it could be real interesting.
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z0de
Gallente
The Bastards
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Posted - 2008.08.31 05:59:00 -
[7]
I like this idea.
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Kiki Arnolds
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.08.31 06:07:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Allen Ramses
Furthermore, considering a good 75% of docking requests are ignored, people legitimately docking will be targeted (as they are now) while they try to get the damn station to respond, and they can be under fire by the time the station operator finally wakes up... but oh well, he says, you were fired upon. No dock for you.
/not signed.
I agree that ships landing on the station must be able to dock effectively... Just hit undockers, if anyone shoots you within 2 minutes of undocking, you wont be able to dock till that 2 minutes is up.
IE, if you undock at 0:00, shot at 0:40, can dock at 2:00... if your shot at 1:30, you can still dock at 2:00, if you haven't been shot, you can dock at 0:30 like it is now...
Lastly I find that most failed dock commands have to do with landing on a station at a range greater than 0... of course, if someone is about to start shooting at me, I just spam the dock button till I stop hearing sounds...
ç¦ |
Taters
Minmatar
Einherjar Rising
Cry Havoc.
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Posted - 2008.09.02 11:00:00 -
[9]
With this system there is no reason for people docking to land outside docking range, so docking should work every time. If people choose to stay outside the station, then they are free game. |
Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.09.02 11:46:00 -
[10]
Let's make an example:
- mining barge of industrial get fired upon when in the belt or at the gate, but not warp disrupted, so he get to warp to the station, attacker follos;
- warp distance is short so he is refused docking as he was a target too few moments ago;
- easy kill.
Example 2:
- attacker with fast locking hug the station, see target warping to it, lock and fire+warp disrupt, the target will have docking prohibited forever and couldn't warp away, so a frigate would block a freighter or deep space tranport forever. Even if he is incapable of killing them it will block them the time needed to allow ship with more DPS do undock.
So pretty bad idea. it will make life of station hugger easier, not harder.
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.09.02 11:47:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Taters
With this system there is no reason for people docking to land outside docking range, so docking should work every time. If people choose to stay outside the station, then they are free game.
Warp to 0 is warp at 0-2500 in reality, so instant dock is not a granted thing.
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Tex Commander
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Posted - 2008.09.02 12:18:00 -
[12]
I like Kil'roys idea with a tweak. Each station could have say 4 docking bays (N.S.E.W.) and reduce the docking radius to say 1,000. The docking bay could still be book marked for miners wanting to align and set up a fast get away...
However in war situations when a station hugger parks it would be much easier to ram them 1000 off the docking bay than the current docking range of the entire station... |
Darwin's Market
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Posted - 2008.09.02 12:58:00 -
[13]
If you're a battleship, your deaggro time should be twice longer. That is enough for me. |
Taters
Minmatar
Einherjar Rising
Cry Havoc.
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Posted - 2008.09.02 13:40:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Venkul Mul
Let's make an example:
- mining barge of industrial get fired upon when in the belt or at the gate, but not warp disrupted, so he get to warp to the station, attacker follos;
- warp distance is short so he is refused docking as he was a target too few moments ago;
- easy kill.
Example 2:
- attacker with fast locking hug the station, see target warping to it, lock and fire+warp disrupt, the target will have docking prohibited forever and couldn't warp away, so a frigate would block a freighter or deep space tranport forever. Even if he is incapable of killing them it will block them the time needed to allow ship with more DPS do undock.
So pretty bad idea. it will make life of station hugger easier, not harder.
First example is exactly the same as what would happen now...so i don't see how my changes have any effect on aggro'd people trying to dock.
Second example wouldn't happen because instead of landing at range like you do now, you'd land within docking range every time. So the ship lands, immediately docks and is fine. If they don't immediately dock only then will they become a target. The station guns will still shoot the agressor, so a frigate couldn't hold down a freighter (except in 0.0 or wardec where the freighter deserves to die if it is slack like that)
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Web Slinger
Eternal Guardians Corp.
The Covenant Alliance
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Posted - 2008.09.02 14:56:00 -
[15]
I like the idea presented, but see a valid problem with the aggro as described for the miner trying to get safe...
How about a perimeter eject feature you can sit in the "safety" of the station dock area or "0" on station for say 3-min, after which the station "ejects" you from the area like a POS with a password change. Propelling you out so that you are fair game or better get to warp before being hit.
There is noting worse than trying to hit a target that keeps hitting the dock button...this would limit their station squatting to the 3-min before they get propelled out to space.
Web Slinger, CEO
Eternal Guardians Corp
Recruiting Info |
H Lecter
Gallente
The Black Rabbits
The Gurlstas Associates
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Posted - 2008.09.02 15:09:00 -
[16]
I would not mind if this was changed, but there are more pressing issues.
Actually I like the current mechanics where you have safe and unsafe stations. Nothing sweeter than seeing your target dock up in a station where it is away from the docking port after undocking.
1) Wait
2) Target undocks
3) ???
4) Profit 
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Flashrain
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Posted - 2008.09.02 15:15:00 -
[17]
Solution: Give POS defense shields to stations.
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Web Slinger
Eternal Guardians Corp.
The Covenant Alliance
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Posted - 2008.09.02 15:35:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Web Slinger on 02/09/2008 15:35:14
now that I really about it - the perimeter eject feature would be great!
Would be like skeet shooting 
Web Slinger, CEO
Eternal Guardians Corp
Recruiting Info |
Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.09.02 17:38:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Taters
Originally by: Venkul Mul
Let's make an example:
- mining barge of industrial get fired upon when in the belt or at the gate, but not warp disrupted, so he get to warp to the station, attacker follos;
- warp distance is short so he is refused docking as he was a target too few moments ago;
- easy kill.
Example 2:
- attacker with fast locking hug the station, see target warping to it, lock and fire+warp disrupt, the target will have docking prohibited forever and couldn't warp away, so a frigate would block a freighter or deep space tranport forever. Even if he is incapable of killing them it will block them the time needed to allow ship with more DPS do undock.
So pretty bad idea. it will make life of station hugger easier, not harder.
First example is exactly the same as what would happen now...so i don't see how my changes have any effect on aggro'd people trying to dock.
Mining barges or industrial/freighters don't fire back, so they have no docking timer for aggro.
Originally by: Taters
Second example wouldn't happen because instead of landing at range like you do now, you'd land within docking range every time. So the ship lands, immediately docks and is fine. If they don't immediately dock only then will they become a target. The station guns will still shoot the agressor, so a frigate couldn't hold down a freighter (except in 0.0 or wardec where the freighter deserves to die if it is slack like that)
1) no one is granting that you will not warp at range. It is a problem with warp to 0, station boundaries and angle of approach, so it is no granted that it can be correct;
2) "The station guns will still shoot the agressor". Wardces, FW, 0.0, too many exceptions. If it trouble it change the ship to a sensor boosted HIC, still wak damage but strong tank.
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Hesperius
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Posted - 2008.09.02 18:00:00 -
[20]
In regards to faction warfare, I would like to see stations denying docking to a member of an opposing militia to the current holder of the system that the station is currently in.
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Taters
Minmatar
Einherjar Rising
Cry Havoc.
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Posted - 2008.09.02 22:32:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Venkul Mul
Mining barges or industrial/freighters don't fire back, so they have no docking timer for aggro.
1) no one is granting that you will not warp at range. It is a problem with warp to 0, station boundaries and angle of approach, so it is no granted that it can be correct;
2) "The station guns will still shoot the agressor". Wardces, FW, 0.0, too many exceptions. If it trouble it change the ship to a sensor boosted HIC, still wak damage but strong tank.
So when the mining barge lands, it wouldn't be the subject of a hostile action (it just got out of warp), it lands within the docking radius, so it can dock fine. I said that the mechanism change would involve removal of 'timers'. And any barge or industrial that lets itself get caught at a belt probably deserved to die anyway.
The mechanism change would mean that you will ALWAYS land in docking range, don't worry about how it happens now. As the docking radius is no longer a safe haven it can be extended out to whatever distance is required to allow people to land within docking range every time.
Docking ships = safe
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