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Increasing Mega Pulse Laser Tracking

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Antimony Noske	Posted - 2008.09.01 05:04:00 - [1] Well, I've run into a bit of a problem. I just recently got an Armageddon, and have started doing level 3 missions. However I've found that I'm typically warping straight into a big mess of ships on these missions, with little buffer room for my megapulses to lock onto and kill any frigates before they reach me. Basically, if a frigate gets within 15-20km's of me, I can't do anything to it. So I'm looking for ways to boost my large turret tracking so I can score hits around the 10-13km mark on frigates. My current setup: High -7x Mega Afocal Pulse Maser I Medium -Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I -100MN Afterburner II -Optical Tracking Computer I - Tracking Script Low -2x 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I -Adaptive Nano Plating II -Damage Control II -Tracking Enhancer II -3x Heatsink II -3x Hammerhead I drones I know my outfit is probably pretty silly, but I'm still new at this. At I'm outfitting as best as I can with the skills I have at the moment. [About 1 month old]
Jeania Uulena School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2008.09.01 05:07:00 - [2] Take plates off!!!! They belong to pvp fit for pve you should be using armor repper and resist modules for your tank
Boobiencia Gallente	Posted - 2008.09.01 05:08:00 - [3] lool
Nummb Amarr	Posted - 2008.09.01 05:28:00 - [4] Bigger is not always better. I would go back a few steps and evaluate what your goals are for missions. I would much rather fly a Battlecruiser in lvl 3's than a Battleship. If you really want to get the most bang for your buck you should be flying a Harbinger right now with the following set-up: High - Heavy Beams Medium - Afterburner - Tracking Computer - Cap Recharger II - Web Low - Medium Armor Repairer - EM Hardener - EM Hardener - Thermal Hardener - Heat Sink - Heat Sink Drones - Hammerheads or Infiltrators Skills: Getting drones up to 5 will help big time with additional DPS and with killing smaller ships. Drone Interfacing is one of the most powerful drone skills in the game, train to 4 ASAP. Hull Upgrades to 5 should be a priority for T2 hardeners. Mechanic and Repair systems to 4 is plenty. * High Priority for Amarr* Energy Management Energy Systems Operation Engineering Electronics Weapons Upgrades & Advanced Weapon Upgrades Controlled Burst That should help you get more efficient and hopefully start you in the right direction.
Antimony Noske	Posted - 2008.09.01 05:44:00 - [5] Look, the replies are great. But I can't afford to buy a harbinger and outfit it; [There's a reason I'm doing level 3 missions, afterall.] and all I really wanted was to hit nearby frigates with my megapulse lasers. I'll try and play around with my Armageddon setup in EFT - Take off the plates and add the armor repper and resist modules, since that sounds like a better idea than what I currently have [and you're not the first to suggest it.]. But it still doesn't solve my primary problem of hitting these pesky frigates.
MI Koshkin The Last Tarakians	Posted - 2008.09.01 05:59:00 - [6] Edited by: MI Koshkin on 01/09/2008 06:00:43 If the webber isn't slowing them down enough you have three choices. The first is to downgrade the guns to Dual Heavy Pulse. They do less damage but track slightly better. Against level 3 missions they should do plenty of damage. The second is to replace the tracking comp with another web. That will stop frigs dead in their tracks. The third thing you can do (and these aren't mutually exclusive) is make sure you have light drones loaded. They kill your frigates easily. Actually you may find that medium drones do the job better and faster. It doesn't directly address your issue but it takes care of the frigates. Really the large turrets are going to have a problem no matter what simply because of the size. Kosh
Antimony Noske	Posted - 2008.09.01 06:07:00 - [7] Edited by: Antimony Noske on 01/09/2008 06:06:54 Perhaps I should focus on getting my Drones skill leveled up then. Are there any other particular skills in that area that would help my drones take down a frigate faster? Right now I've got Drones 3, but I could have Drones 4 trained up in 22 hours.
MI Koshkin The Last Tarakians	Posted - 2008.09.01 06:18:00 - [8] For some quick effectiveness increases, look to do the following: Drones IV - This immediately gives you +33% additional damage from your drones since you'll be flying 4 instead of 3. It also allows you to train a couple of levels of Drone Navigation and Drone Durability. Combat Drone Operation I - III - This gives an additional +15% damage to light/medium drones. Kosh
Grarr Dexx Amarr The Cosa Nostra	Posted - 2008.09.01 06:19:00 - [9] Drones drones drones... Push it as hard as you can. I've got 6.5mil SP and drones v, scout drones v and gall drone spec 3 along with drone interfacing 3.
Amberly Coteaz Amarr The Black Rabbits The Gurlstas Associates	Posted - 2008.09.01 06:21:00 - [10] Originally by: Antimony Noske Edited by: Antimony Noske on 01/09/2008 06:06:54 Perhaps I should focus on getting my Drones skill leveled up then. Are there any other particular skills in that area that would help my drones take down a frigate faster? Right now I've got Drones 3, but I could have Drones 4 trained up in 22 hours. You pretty much have to get drones V im afraid, since a good chunck of the damage with come from having the full flight of drones out and a skill called "drone interfacing" to level 3. Getting those skills to that level will double your drones damage output. Its somthing in the region of 10 days training depending on learning skills. Afterwards if you still feel like developing your drone skills then if you add "scout drone operation" (to level 5 for t2 light and med drones), "combat drones", "drone durability", "drone navigation", "drone sharpshooting" and the racial drone specs (caldari, minmatar and gallente) all to level 3 you will be in good shape as far as drones are concerned and you shouldn't have to touch them until you decide to PvP, where a few more level 4s really help. I went on a touch maybe, but for low SP missions drones V drone interfacing III and combat drones III should really help with the frigate killing.

Aioa Planetary Assault Systems	Posted - 2008.09.01 07:25:00 - [11] The reason your large guns miss frigates is not due to tracking alone, and even with the fastest tracking you'll still miss sometimes. Read me You might be better off fitting a couple of sensor boosters so you can lock faster, but yeah, the folks above are correct. You need drone skills before you go near a battleship. I've known a few new pilots to lose battleships on level 2 missions! Their large guns can't hit things, they get swarmed and their drone skills suck. Their tank wont hold out forever and eventually they get worn down. Don't let it happen to you...
Saietor Blackgreen The First Foundation SOLAR FLEET	Posted - 2008.09.01 07:38:00 - [12] To hit 50% of shots a gun have to have same tracking as transversal of target, within optimal, if sig resolution of gun = target size. You are tryng to hit FRIGATES with BS GUNS. You have to have tracking 9 (NINE) times better than transversal of target to hit them 50% of your shots. That is improssible to reach with just boosting the tracking, ever. So, yes - either shoot them on approach, when transversal is almost zero (which you might not have optimal for though), or use your small or medium drones. I dont understand though why frigates bother you. With BCs and cruisers dead, DPS from frigs should be negligible for a battleship, in lvl3 missions.
TerrorBaBy Nearly Feared	Posted - 2008.09.01 07:41:00 - [13] Originally by: Antimony Noske Look, the replies are great. But I can't afford to buy a harbinger and outfit it; [There's a reason I'm doing level 3 missions, afterall.] and all I really wanted was to hit nearby frigates with my megapulse lasers. I'll try and play around with my Armageddon setup in EFT - Take off the plates and add the armor repper and resist modules, since that sounds like a better idea than what I currently have [and you're not the first to suggest it.]. But it still doesn't solve my primary problem of hitting these pesky frigates. The simple fact is that you will not be able to achieve this without T2 and very, very good skills. I suggest you swap down to dual heavy pulse lasers instead of mega pulse. They're still battleship sized weapons, but they have the tracking of cruiser sized weapons or thereabouts. Fit a tracking computer into a med slot if you still can't hit. Also, get the gunnery skill for tracking up to at least lvl 4.
Aioa Planetary Assault Systems	Posted - 2008.09.01 07:51:00 - [14] Originally by: TerrorBaBy I suggest you swap down to dual heavy pulse lasers instead of mega pulse. They're still battleship sized weapons, but they have the tracking of cruiser sized weapons or thereabouts. And exactly the same sig as a mega pulse, so therefore wont make much difference.
TerrorBaBy Nearly Feared	Posted - 2008.09.01 07:55:00 - [15] Originally by: Aioa Originally by: TerrorBaBy I suggest you swap down to dual heavy pulse lasers instead of mega pulse. They're still battleship sized weapons, but they have the tracking of cruiser sized weapons or thereabouts. And exactly the same sig as a mega pulse, so therefore wont make much difference. My bad. Get drones to 5 and release 5x medium drones on them then (should only take 3-4 days). The drones will work around the group of frigates and systematically kill anything that's shooting at you without even having to lock them. Even drones at lvl 4 will be ok.
Istvaan Shogaatsu Caldari Guiding Hand Social Club	Posted - 2008.09.01 12:00:00 - [16] There is a trick you can use, which I used to make my big turret ships hit frigs close-up in various situations. Once they get all up in your grill, watch their orbit carefully. Start moving your ship in a direction that the frig WILL be moving in, granting time for your slug of a BS to align to that direction. Takes a while to get the hang of, but the idea is to minimize the frig's transversal velocity relative to your ship for just a brief moment, and allow a good hit or two with your whole battery.
garrett mack	Posted - 2008.09.01 12:15:00 - [17] Hey all If you read the op he states he is low on skills an only about 1 month in the game so he probably just has bare minimum type skills to fly his bs and no spare isk to buy the goodies that will really help. Antimony for the immediate future I suggest you train up your drones skill to level 4 then to level 5. This should take you around 2 weeks depending on your attributes. You will almost never be able to hit close range fast moving frigates with large weapons so what you can do is to focus your large weapons on far away frigates as they approach then when they get close (inside 10km I believe) hit a frigate with your webber and sick your drones on it and turn your large weapons onto any cruisers and battlecruisers and battleships as they close on you. Also as soon as you warp into the melee pick a distant stargate/station and align to it and fly toward it (without warping) at top speed to try to create some distance between you and them and for safety so if things go bad you can warp out quickly. It can be hard to understand but each level of missions is designed to be best done by certain ships with lvl 3 designed for battlecruisers. Just something to try here and i'm not sure about this but maybe try switching back to medium energy weapons as they are better able to hit the smaller/faster ships you are fighting. Keep reading the forums for hints and advice and don't be afraid to ask questions. Sure you will get alot of hassle from some people but some actual advice too. Good hunting.
Wil Smithx Minmatar Suns Of Korhal	Posted - 2008.09.01 12:18:00 - [18] Originally by: TerrorBaBy Originally by: Aioa Originally by: TerrorBaBy I suggest you swap down to dual heavy pulse lasers instead of mega pulse. They're still battleship sized weapons, but they have the tracking of cruiser sized weapons or thereabouts. And exactly the same sig as a mega pulse, so therefore wont make much difference. My bad. Get drones to 5 and release 5x medium drones on them then (should only take 3-4 days). The drones will work around the group of frigates and systematically kill anything that's shooting at you without even having to lock them. Even drones at lvl 4 will be ok. LOL release 5 heavy drones you mean, if you use praetors they will hit frigs fine (they have the fastest tracking and are second fastest) or berserkers, which will keep up fine. Just don't use ogres. More specifically to the OP: I have a tracking rig on my armageddon to help my megapulses track battleships! Think about what you're asking for here... A way for one of the biggest non capital guns in game to track the smallest ships in game...
Gartel Reiman Civis Romanus Sum	Posted - 2008.09.01 12:39:00 - [19] My 0.02 ISK: What the OP is asking for is impossible. Large turrets will not track frigates, and nor should they. Everyone who's said that drones are the tool for this are spot on. However, there's definitely still the issue of doing level 4s in a battleship. It will be much quicker for you to do them in a Harbinger - and more educational too. What you have there is interesting in that it's a decent PvP setup, but terrible for PvE as you have no way of repairing yourself, and buffer is irrelevant. Drop back to battlecruiser, and enjoy the better hits you'll get from medium-sized guns (while learning about how to tank properly too). If you can't afford the Harbinger - sell your Geddon to get the ISK, as with no disrespect you do not have the support skills required to fly it to a fraction of its potential right now. Don't neglect the drone skills either, as these will do wonders for the Harbinger, too, which can field 5 mediums. Basically, you've tried to overreach yourself by shooting for "bigger and better" and bulldozing missions without learning how to do them properly or needing to worry about game mechanics. Now you've hit your first roadblock, the best thing you can do is to realise what you've been missing out on, and start doing your level 3s 'properly' in a battlecruiser while training up your support skills (drones, armour tank, capacitor skills, gunnery skills). You'll be able to see what a difference it makes as well, and then when you're in a position to do level 4s you'll hopefully manage not to lose your ship on the first mission.
SoftRevolution	Posted - 2008.09.01 14:31:00 - [20] Edited by: SoftRevolution on 01/09/2008 14:36:06 How much of a loss do you make selling the BS? I'd sell it and fit a BC. The Harbinger is pretty decent. It's got a gun damage bonus and enough bay for 5 medium drones. It's literally built for taking apart cruisers and frigates. If you insist on sticking with a BS then it's drones to 5 to deal with frigs. Also, check your combat log and see if you're getting good hits vs. cruisers or if you're missing a lot. If you are missing a lot switch out HS for TE. Maybe even swap down to medium guns. Paper DPS doesn't count if you're missing all the time. TBH though I'd get a BC.

Antimony Noske	Posted - 2008.09.01 16:56:00 - [21] I've been looking at some Harbinger outfits, and I'm a bit divided on where to go with the weapons. As far as skills are concerned, I'm a lot closer to fitting Tech 2 pulses than beams. But it seems like all the outfits I see use beam lasers. Since I can only fit Tech 1 weapons right now, are beams the better choice with this ship?
AstroPhobic Minmatar	Posted - 2008.09.01 17:23:00 - [22] Originally by: Antimony Noske I've been looking at some Harbinger outfits, and I'm a bit divided on where to go with the weapons. As far as skills are concerned, I'm a lot closer to fitting Tech 2 pulses than beams. But it seems like all the outfits I see use beam lasers. Since I can only fit Tech 1 weapons right now, are beams the better choice with this ship? [Harbinger, Missions] Armor Thermic Hardener II Armor EM Hardener II Medium Armor Repairer II Heat Sink II Heat Sink II Capacitor Power Relay II 10MN Afterburner II Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Stasis Webifier II Focused Medium Beam Laser II, Multifrequency M Focused Medium Beam Laser II, Multifrequency M Focused Medium Beam Laser II, Multifrequency M Focused Medium Beam Laser II, Multifrequency M Focused Medium Beam Laser II, Multifrequency M Focused Medium Beam Laser II, Multifrequency M Focused Medium Beam Laser II, Multifrequency M Small Tractor Beam I Energy Locus Coordinator I Energy Metastasis Adjuster I Energy Metastasis Adjuster I Hammerhead II x5 Or ignore the rigs and upgrade as many to heavy beams as you can.
Gartel Reiman Civis Romanus Sum	Posted - 2008.09.01 17:28:00 - [23] Originally by: SoftRevolution If you insist on sticking with a BS then... maybe even swap down to medium guns. While the idea is good in a general sense, I would definitely recommend against this for someone who's fairly new to missions and having trouble. The Geddon will do less damage with 7 unbonused mediums than the Harby's 7 bonused mediums, so all you get from it (apart from handling like a brick) is a vastly increased buffer that lets you do just about anything and get through the missions. I mean, notice how the OP's setup didn't even have a rep on it, yet he wasn't asking about tanking problems? Since it's possible to easily tank any level 3 mission with a battlecruiser if you set it up and fly it properly (even with flat out T1 mods), doing the missions in a battleship ends up just taking longer, and denying yourself the chance to learn how to fit mission ships properly. Originally by: Antimony Noske I've been looking at some Harbinger outfits, and I'm a bit divided on where to go with the weapons. As far as skills are concerned, I'm a lot closer to fitting Tech 2 pulses than beams. But it seems like all the outfits I see use beam lasers. Since I can only fit Tech 1 weapons right now, are beams the better choice with this ship? Basically, yes. Since in missions you take on a large number of weak enemies who start far away and like to orbit far away, and you doin't need to scram them and can't use MWDs - the extra range of the long-range guns is generally much more preferable to the extra damage of close-range guns. The only exception to this in my mind is for frigates (they are the fastest ships and the absolute range difference is smallest with small guns, so the range difference is probably a second or two's travel time) and large pulse lasers (where Scorch usually gives you the range to reach out to all rats' natural orbit ranges, especially with a TC or the Apoc's bonus). Beams should always be the de facto fit for Amarr mission boats; replace them with pulses if you can come up with something that reliably mitigates the pulses' range issue.
Antimony Noske	Posted - 2008.09.01 17:36:00 - [24] Originally by: Antimony Noske I've been looking at some Harbinger outfits, and I'm a bit divided on where to go with the weapons. As far as skills are concerned, I'm a lot closer to fitting Tech 2 pulses than beams. But it seems like all the outfits I see use beam lasers. Since I can only fit Tech 1 weapons right now, are beams the better choice with this ship? Training for Tech II is going to take me a couple weeks still. At present, I have 1.9 million skillpoints.
SoftRevolution	Posted - 2008.09.01 17:42:00 - [25] It's really a question of how close you have to be to hit. With Scorch and all level 5 I see 23km optimal for Heavy Pulses in EFT. Without Scorch you take a significant drop in DPS at that range. Scorch costs money anyway which cuts into your profits (5-600k a crystal * 7). Beams you'd have somewhat more range even with T1 crystals.
Zeba Minmatar Pator Tech School	Posted - 2008.09.01 17:44:00 - [26] An alternate low skill harb setup that lets you easily fit all heavy beams and have a very nice passive shield tank moar than able to tank level 3 missions. Highs: 7x heavy beam Meds: 1x 10nm ab 1x invul field 2x large shield extender Lows: 3x heat sink 1x shield power relay 2x pds Drones: 5x medium hammerhead Rigs: 1x anti-em 1x anti-thermal 1x anti-kinetic Rigs are optional but fast to train for and at only about 2 mil each are fairly cheap and will help with the bigger missions like blockade and such. I might also add you can fully t2 fit it if you have the skills which make them pwn level 3 hard.
AstroPhobic Minmatar	Posted - 2008.09.01 17:49:00 - [27] Originally by: Antimony Noske Edited by: Antimony Noske on 01/09/2008 17:38:07 Edited by: Antimony Noske on 01/09/2008 17:37:07 Originally by: AstroPhobic List of tech II gear Training for Tech II is going to take me a couple weeks still. At present, I only have 1.9 million skillpoints. Don't worry about fitting t2, just use it as a baseline. It's a setup that can be mirrored well with t1/named stuff, whereas a pulse setup will need scorch.


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