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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 1 post(s)
VeroneaTT Amarr Hedion University	Posted - 2008.09.06 22:32:00 - [151] Perspective? You admitted to a key word here. You give yourself good advice and I suggest you start to follow it. Cairn building usually shows a lack.
Xzar Fyrarr Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force	Posted - 2008.09.06 22:33:00 - [152] Agrees with op.
Vikarion Caldari BLACK 0RIGIN Red Dawn Alliance	Posted - 2008.09.06 22:35:00 - [153] Originally by: VeroneaTT Perspective? You admitted to a key word here. You give yourself good advice and I suggest you start to follow it. Cairn building usually shows a lack. Already got it. You don't, which is why you venture close to making RL threats over Eve, consider anyone who plays the game differently than you would like a "griefer", and can't seem to grasp where Eve came from, and why CCP has been successful up until now. Or why continuing this course will ruin them. -------- EVE - The only non-consensual PvP MMORPG* *Note: does not contain non-consensual PvP as of 9/3/2008
Robinete Broadhead Minmatar	Posted - 2008.09.06 22:41:00 - [154] not going to waste my time reading ANOTHER PVPer whining post! Yes, I am an ALT in a NOOB Corp.
VeroneaTT Amarr Hedion University	Posted - 2008.09.06 22:41:00 - [155] Originally by: Vikarion Originally by: VeroneaTT Perspective? You admitted to a key word here. You give yourself good advice and I suggest you start to follow it. Cairn building usually shows a lack. Already got it. You don't, which is why you venture close to making RL threats over Eve, consider anyone who plays the game differently than you would like a "griefer", and can't seem to grasp where Eve came from, and why CCP has been successful up until now. Or why continuing this course will ruin them. Now you are talking with some reason. Grats!
Shagrath Neptune Series of Tubes	Posted - 2008.09.06 22:41:00 - [156] Edited by: Shagrath Neptune on 06/09/2008 22:41:58 Originally by: Vikarion Originally by: VeroneaTT Perspective? You admitted to a key word here. You give yourself good advice and I suggest you start to follow it. Cairn building usually shows a lack. Already got it. You don't, which is why you venture close to making RL threats over Eve, consider anyone who plays the game differently than you would like a "griefer", and can't seem to grasp where Eve came from, and why CCP has been successful up until now. Or why continuing this course will ruin them. Vikarion, do you have killboard stats we could view? I would like to see some of your in game credentials. You keep calling yourself a pvper, Telling people to post with their mains and lecturing everyone on howthe game should be played. I would just like to see exactly what you have personally accomplished. I could be wrong but it seems like you do a lot of talking and little else?
VeroneaTT Amarr Hedion University	Posted - 2008.09.06 22:43:00 - [157] Originally by: Maximillian Bayonette Originally by: Hungo Originally by: Vikarion Dear Carebears and other assorted people... Lets break down the Primary Nerfs shall we 1. Privateer Nerf - Complained about by 0.0 pvpers who empire operations where hampered 2. Cost of war decs - again 0.0 alliances ***ING because god forbid empire wasnt safe for there lvl 4 running alts 3. NANO nerf - again 0.0 girls *ing about not being able to get there targets 4. warp to 15 changed to warp to 0 - another * and moan about it from 0.0 PVPERS 5. faction warfare - 0.0 pvpers wanted the factiosn at war - ccp buckeled who in gods name do you think you are kidding? MPIRE PLAYERS dont * on these forums because they dont care, they have to deal with the perpetual dissapointment that is CCP based on your pathetic whines and amtuer attitudes left by your whines. Who ruined the game? 0.0 PVP players and alliances ***ING about everything - Now your complaining about cyno Jammers - wonder if that will get changed? You are full of it, don't blame us empire dwellers who couyldnt care less, the major changes in this game are brought on by 0.0 newb pvpers whining like little girls Just a FYI: Not all 0.0 residents can be categorized as 'PvPers'. In fact, some of the biggest carebears in the game reside in 0.0. Look at Hydra, for example. This is status quo. Industrialized pvp is here to stay. The entire corp. effort for war IS pvp. Now, I have seen what you have seen, people in corp. ratting/mining all for their own profit, but generally speaking industrialized pvp is practically a forced situation. I actually enjoy this stuff. I know I know, but pvp is not the only game. No troll on this one
Vikarion Caldari BLACK 0RIGIN Red Dawn Alliance	Posted - 2008.09.06 22:43:00 - [158] Originally by: Shagrath Neptune Vikarion, do you have killboard stats we could view? I would like to see some of your in game credentials. You keep calling yourself a pvper, Telling people to post with their mains and lecturing everyone on howthe game should be played. I would just like to see exactly what you have personally accomplished. I could be wrong but it seems like you do a lot of talking and little else? Sure, I'll have to spend a while updating it, though. I got lazy. -------- EVE - The only non-consensual PvP MMORPG* *Note: does not contain non-consensual PvP as of 9/3/2008
Vikarion Caldari BLACK 0RIGIN Red Dawn Alliance	Posted - 2008.09.06 23:02:00 - [159] Here is my Killboard. As you may note, I recently went on a spree of killing macro haulers. -------- EVE - The only non-consensual PvP MMORPG* *Note: does not contain non-consensual PvP as of 9/3/2008
Le Skunk Low Sec Liberators	Posted - 2008.09.06 23:03:00 - [160] Edited by: Le Skunk on 06/09/2008 23:03:42 Edited by: Le Skunk on 06/09/2008 23:03:29 Originally by: VeroneaTT ...alt crap... No troll on this one Shame your alt postage, your real life threats (about a computer game) and previous trolls means Im treating it like the rest of your spam SKUNK
VeroneaTT Amarr Hedion University	Posted - 2008.09.06 23:10:00 - [161] Originally by: Le Skunk Edited by: Le Skunk on 06/09/2008 23:03:42 Edited by: Le Skunk on 06/09/2008 23:03:29 Originally by: VeroneaTT ...alt crap... No troll on this one Shame your alt postage, your real life threats (about a computer game) and previous trolls means Im treating it like the rest of your spam SKUNK Like a little doggy...tenacious and single minded. Your owner loves you.
Le Skunk Low Sec Liberators	Posted - 2008.09.06 23:17:00 - [162] Originally by: VeroneaTT alt crap As stated above, post with your main SKUNK
Shagrath Neptune Series of Tubes	Posted - 2008.09.06 23:30:00 - [163] Originally by: Vikarion Here is my Killboard. As you may note, I recently went on a spree of killing macro haulers. You are certainly keeping the universe safe from renegade Bestowers and Iteron Mark 4's but I guess I was expecting more kills of things that actually shoot back sometimes. I guess whether you are qualified enough to brow beat and lecture others about pvp depends on how one would define "PvP."
Vikarion Caldari BLACK 0RIGIN Red Dawn Alliance	Posted - 2008.09.06 23:37:00 - [164] Originally by: Shagrath Neptune You are certainly keeping the universe safe from renegade Bestowers and Iteron Mark 4's but I guess I was expecting more kills of things that actually shoot back sometimes. I guess whether you are qualified enough to brow beat and lecture others about pvp depends on how one would define "PvP." Apparently you didn't realize that you can go to the "kills" page and look at the other fights I've engaged in. In addition, you also didn't realize that some of those kills are in 0.0. Lastly, you also didn't realize that most of those fights were me versus large amounts of other people. Learn to internet better. Also, what's with the hate for killing macro haulers? RMT getting a little expensive for ya? I hope so. -------- EVE - The only non-consensual PvP MMORPG* *Note: does not contain non-consensual PvP as of 9/3/2008
VeroneaTT Amarr Hedion University	Posted - 2008.09.07 00:20:00 - [165] Originally by: Le Skunk Originally by: VeroneaTT alt crap As stated above, post with your main SKUNK Or what? You will make more rl threat concoctions? Learn the difference between plural "people" and singular "ME", "I". Go read my posts again. As a community leader of griefing lamers you should know better. I guess being a "professional eve player" is certificate enough for shit-house lawyering.
Le Skunk Low Sec Liberators	Posted - 2008.09.07 00:49:00 - [166] Edited by: Le Skunk on 07/09/2008 00:48:38 Originally by: VeroneaTT didnt read it - alt posting As stated above, post with your main SKUNK

CCP Greyscale	Posted - 2008.09.07 01:04:00 - [167] Originally by: Vikarion I'll pull out the particular quote: Originally by: CCP Greyscale There are other considerations coming into play of course, such as the fact that by denying blanket immunity (and assuming we're communicating this effectively) we attach some perceived risk to all activities[...] Wow, that's some pretty impressive quote-mangling right there. For those who're actually interested in knowing what my thoughts are on the subject (and of course these are my thoughts - contrary to popular opinion there is no "CCP hivemind") but didn't see the other thread, I suggest having a read of this, this and this for some proper content/context. I'm not sure it's entirely self-explaining (or entirely perfectly presented) so it may require a bit of independent thought to slot all the pieces together; also, due to character limits and so on it's necessarily a somewhat condensed and summarized writeup. As with many areas of the game, there's a degree of conceptual complexity involved in balancing all the competing interests that doesn't lend itself well to "X good Y bad" positioning, which while fun to work with imposes certain additional difficulties when it comes to communication. For the rest of you, carry on with whatever it is you're doing in this thread - I don't think there's anything more I can productively add to the discussion

DMAN666vic	Posted - 2008.09.07 01:24:00 - [168] In the persistent pursuit by CCP to strike a "balanced" game play by "nerfing" and changing the dynamics. I think they find themselves in a bit of a quagmire and will never find the balance. I don't mind them adding to the game to make it balanced and increase content, but changing or taking away established attributes and rules results in a vicious cycle of never ending changes that create more problems than they solve. Just watch and see. I understand getting ganked in sec space sucks. But if you pay attention to what you are doing sprinkled with a bit of intelligence, it won't happen often if at all. And besides, I think Freighters solved that problem. Great example of how adding useful content solves ingame problems. EVE Exclusive Specialized Search Engine - Search Only Eve Sites!
Shagrath Neptune Series of Tubes	Posted - 2008.09.07 01:27:00 - [169] Originally by: Vikarion Originally by: Shagrath Neptune You are certainly keeping the universe safe from renegade Bestowers and Iteron Mark 4's but I guess I was expecting more kills of things that actually shoot back sometimes. I guess whether you are qualified enough to brow beat and lecture others about pvp depends on how one would define "PvP." Apparently you didn't realize that you can go to the "kills" page and look at the other fights I've engaged in. In addition, you also didn't realize that some of those kills are in 0.0. Lastly, you also didn't realize that most of those fights were me versus large amounts of other people. Learn to internet better. Also, what's with the hate for killing macro haulers? RMT getting a little expensive for ya? I hope so. Basically, I went to the "ships destroyed" section and noticed over half of those were Haulers and Mining Barges. Which part was I suppose to be impressed by again? Regardless, I am not sure what any of this has to do with me needing to "learn the internet better?" Huh?? I don't do any RMT. This is why I think you are a clueless nub though. You assume that everyone who disagrees with you must have some agenda or motive. I don't. I just think you aren't a very good "pvper." {and I am using that term loosely when i use it to describe you.}
Vikarion Caldari BLACK 0RIGIN Red Dawn Alliance	Posted - 2008.09.07 01:37:00 - [170] Edited by: Vikarion on 07/09/2008 01:38:40 Originally by: CCP Greyscale Wow, that's some pretty impressive quote-mangling right there. That's not quote mangling at all. I couldn't possibly quote every excerpt - I'd hit the character limit - but I do believe that I linked the thread in this thread. If I did not, I'll point out that your statements are in the End PvP in highsec thread, which is still on the first page. The fact is, that unless you at CCP did not think through the effects of your planned Concord a sec-status changes, you already knew that they would virtually end suicide ganking as a tactic for anyone, by simple *mathematical logic.* But you gave the reason you did not wish to end PvP in hi-sec as a whole as "...we attach some perceived risk to all activities..." Or did you not type that? Well, what is the word for a perception that is not based in reality? Illusion. You wish to maintain an illusion of danger. You have also stated that you do not wish wra-decs to be a tool for "griefers". It's pretty clear, according to your posts on the subject, that you consider griefers to be those attacking other players for other than strategic reasons. In short, according to your own words, my attacks on macro haulers are griefing, my war-dec to extort isk are griefing, and practically anything else that doesn't fit the strategic goals of my alliance, including killing those who call me a "* got." You were very clear about what CCP intends. Don't think that by accusing me of "quote mangling" that you can then weasel out of the fact that you are currently working to make hi-sec virtually risk-less to anyone. -------- EVE - The only non-consensual PvP MMORPG *Note: does not contain non-consensual PvP as of 9/3/2008
Vikarion Caldari BLACK 0RIGIN Red Dawn Alliance	Posted - 2008.09.07 01:42:00 - [171] Originally by: Shagrath Neptune Basically, I went to the "ships destroyed" section and noticed over half of those were Haulers and Mining Barges. Which part was I suppose to be impressed by again? Regardless, I am not sure what any of this has to do with me needing to "learn the internet better?" Huh?? I don't do any RMT. This is why I think you are a clueless nub though. You assume that everyone who disagrees with you must have some agenda or motive. I don't. I just think you aren't a very good "pvper." {and I am using that term loosely when i use it to describe you.} I'm sorry that my killboard doesn't live up to your expectations. Well, actually, I'm not. And I'll note that you certainly haven't linked yours. Most of my 0.0 combat experience is not linked on my personal board, but my alliance board, since I can usually only post what I landed the final blow on - usually not going to happen in fleet combat. Let's see your KB. -------- EVE - The only non-consensual PvP MMORPG* *Note: does not contain non-consensual PvP as of 9/3/2008
Vikarion Caldari BLACK 0RIGIN Red Dawn Alliance	Posted - 2008.09.07 01:51:00 - [172] Originally by: CCP Greyscale For the rest of you, carry on with whatever it is you're doing in this thread - I don't think there's anything more I can productively add to the discussion There is one thing... I'd like to know how the great ones at CCP (with such a greater and more comprehensive view than the players), intend to deal with the problems of market saturation stemming from hi-sec being too safe and profitable, and the problem of low-sec and 0.0 being less profitable than hi-sec for the average player. That would be very productive, I think. At least reassure us with an acknowledgment of the problem? -------- EVE - The only non-consensual PvP MMORPG* *Note: does not contain non-consensual PvP as of 9/3/2008
Shagrath Neptune Series of Tubes	Posted - 2008.09.07 01:58:00 - [173] Originally by: Vikarion Originally by: Shagrath Neptune Basically, I went to the "ships destroyed" section and noticed over half of those were Haulers and Mining Barges. Which part was I suppose to be impressed by again? Regardless, I am not sure what any of this has to do with me needing to "learn the internet better?" Huh?? I don't do any RMT. This is why I think you are a clueless nub though. You assume that everyone who disagrees with you must have some agenda or motive. I don't. I just think you aren't a very good "pvper." {and I am using that term loosely when i use it to describe you.} I'm sorry that my killboard doesn't live up to your expectations. Well, actually, I'm not. And I'll note that you certainly haven't linked yours. Most of my 0.0 combat experience is not linked on my personal board, but my alliance board, since I can usually only post what I landed the final blow on - usually not going to happen in fleet combat. Let's see your KB. I didn't link mine because I wasn't the one creating whine threads and getting up on a soapbox to lecture all the carebears or whoever you think caused these awful, dreadful, mean spirited changes against your pvp style of play. I didn't link it because I just wanted to see what you have actually killed and didn't mean it as an e-peen measuring contest. I felt you are the one who needs to prove something since you are calling out a good portion of the player base. Heck, you are now calling out the game Devs now too. Here is mine anyways. http://www.amarr-empire.net/killboard/?a=pilot_detail&plt_id=39754
Lurana Lay Gallente	Posted - 2008.09.07 02:39:00 - [174] Originally by: Vikarion Originally by: CCP Greyscale For the rest of you, carry on with whatever it is you're doing in this thread - I don't think there's anything more I can productively add to the discussion There is one thing... I'd like to know how the great ones at CCP (with such a greater and more comprehensive view than the players), intend to deal with the problems of market saturation stemming from hi-sec being too safe and profitable, and the problem of low-sec and 0.0 being less profitable than hi-sec for the average player. That would be very productive, I think. At least reassure us with an acknowledgment of the problem? Saying Empire is more lucrative than 0.0 for Joe Average is either massively uninformed or a blatant troll. As for Lo, soory but nerfing Empire will not drive more gankee's there. The only thing that will do that is Alliance held 0.0 like security. Quote: You see, I hate your pusillanimous whines, your endless calls for those outside of yourselves to help you, your desire to have the playing field tilted in your direction. I hate your willingness to smacktalk, cheat, lie, and act crudely before running . Most of all, I hate your utter unwillingness to let Eve be what it was, and your desire to change it into your own little version or a ganker haven Your words, I removed 6 and changed one, amazing how it showcases your polar opposites opinions.
Vikarion Caldari BLACK 0RIGIN Red Dawn Alliance	Posted - 2008.09.07 02:50:00 - [175] Edited by: Vikarion on 07/09/2008 02:50:09 Originally by: Lurana Lay Saying Empire is more lucrative than 0.0 for Joe Average is either massively uninformed or a blatant troll. As for Lo, soory but nerfing Empire will not drive more gankee's there. The only thing that will do that is Alliance held 0.0 like security. Ok, fine. What's the average figure for a high-sec mission-runner? around 25 mil ISK/hour. What's the ratio for a belt ratter with even one other person in system? Around 10-15 mil an hour. That's in good 0.0. How do I know this? I've been there. In fact, I'm there right now. Anomalies are about equal with missions. Complexes CAN be lucrative, but they take special skills, usually a few people (thus, diluted loot - heh), and you still have to warp out if enemies come in. Yuck. Moon mining - the average 0.0 player will never see a cent from this. Manufacturing - hard to get the minerals, hard to produce in safety. Not as lucrative as ratting. Trading - less of a market. Mining - Risky risky risky risky risky. Takes teamwork, effort, and you have to warp out a lot. Not that that's bad, but compare it to hi-sec mining. So, are you going to prove me wrong, or just resort to another personal attack? -------- EVE - The only non-consensual PvP MMORPG* *Note: does not contain non-consensual PvP as of 9/3/2008
oilio Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2008.09.07 04:32:00 - [176] Could it be that Vikarion is so bitter because the changes impact so heavily on his play-style of easy, risk-free kills? Could it be that this isn't in fact about "PvP" as he calls it, but more about the fact that people who were used to their staple of cheap kills may now have to seek other targets... maybe ones that shoot back? Horrible whiney thread, Vik. The rebalancing is worth it because it upsets you, and you are lame and whiney. Not very constructive, I know, but neither is your tirade of bile.
VeroneaTT Amarr Hedion University	Posted - 2008.09.07 04:52:00 - [177] Originally by: Vikarion Edited by: Vikarion on 07/09/2008 02:50:09 :cry:]All this eve stuff takes too much effort dangit Gosh your right, I might as well give up making eve product, sell all my haulers and freighters, stop all production/trade and just go sit on a gate and gargle balls about da good ol days. Then I can join the griefer (not the leet just starting out of course) crowd at making completely inane posts about how uber I am and how everyone else has no clue. How I wish I could turn the clock back to 2006 when all was well, when hardy killers of men/woman/babies roamed the pixel galaxy etc, etc, etc. Does this about sum up your professional eve experience? It might be time to publish your memoir... Actually your post about covers everything no? har har CCP Greyscale and others (including this alt) have been telling you the same thing. You take what others say and simply twist the words around to suite your little attempt at relevance. Vikorain...the frustrated hunter of dangerous pilots...plies the eve pixel void. forever on his quest of an easy gank. Brave vidorain, always one to champion for justice of a sort. He can't be arsed to make an effort at eve (see above quote), but he can type like a champion for his cause. Stalwart vikuroin, he will not go easy to fade away with yesterdays game...but fade away he will. Hehe, in seriousness, I could imagine myself actually admiring people who pull suicides after the changes are made. Stout heart griefers...bootstrap!
Sardukarr	Posted - 2008.09.07 05:18:00 - [178] I wonder what would happen if CCP actually "balanced" the game across the board. I mean 50/50 balancing across the whole game. Would be ***** boooooooooring.
AOSBrendans Mom	Posted - 2008.09.07 05:45:00 - [179] Edited by: AOSBrendans Mom on 07/09/2008 05:48:05 Edited by: AOSBrendans Mom on 07/09/2008 05:47:02 I want to address a couple issues raised here: Quote: 1. Privateer Nerf - Complained about by 0.0 pvpers who empire operations where hampered Okay, lets face facts here. Privateers was using the wardec system to have every major alliance and empire corp wardec'd at all times. This is clearly an exploit of game mechanics. Wardec's, it seems to me, were not put in game for people to completely circumvent ALL of the restrictions on pvp in high and low-sec empire. The restrictions on pvp were in place in empire for a reason--empire was supposed to be relatively safer than low-sec, and low-sec was supposed to relatively safer than 0.0. The war-dec system was in place so that corps and alliances could engage in unrestricted pvp to disrupt, harass, or punish a small number of corps in high and low-sec by paying for the ability to engage in un-restricted pvp. The privateers alliance were exploiting the war-dec system to engage everyone in empire. To exploit is to use game mechanics to do something unintended by the game designers--in this case using the war-dec game mechanic to have most of eve-online war-deced constantly. CCP saw this as an exploit that unbalanced the game, and then acted on that by increasing the costs of multiple war-decs. This is called game balancing, and most likely had nothing to do "0.0 whiners." Quote: 3. NANO nerf - again 0.0 girls ***ing about not being able to get there targets Anyone who has flown nano-ships in 0.0, or encountered a 30 man nano-gang, knows that this is a broken mechanic. Whenever you have a large segment of a game population doing something that can only be countered by very specialized players (or in this case ships) you have a broken game mechanic. CCP attempting to fix this is just them trying to balance the game. It really has nothing to do with 0.0 alliances *ing, in fact they're the ones who utilize nanos the most. Quote: 4. warp to 15 changed to warp to 0 - another *** and moan about it from 0.0 PVPERS Warp to zero was actually a result of the tremendous lag caused by the millions of "insta" bookmarks being stored server side. These insta bookmarks were the product of thousands of manhours of work and trillions of isk (and effectively gave their owners warp to zero capability). Part of removing these bookmarks from game was the introduction of the warp to zero mechanic. This mechanic, which still rewarded people traveling while at the computer while not rewarding people traveling afk, replaced the hard made/earned bookmarks removed from the game. 5. faction warfare - 0.0 pvpers wanted the factiosn at war - ccp buckeled Huh?
Von Kleist Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.09.07 06:36:00 - [180] Edited by: Von Kleist on 07/09/2008 06:37:39 As a resident of 0.0 from day 2 of the game, the one thing that I always kind of thought was that low sec (-0.1 to -0.4) was more dangerous than 0.0. I think most people can agree with this observation, and there was one thought I had in that regard. Make low sec more valuable than either. Put the best ores, and the best rats, etc. there. Its kind of the dead mans land between the protected borders of established 0.0, that they raid for entertainment, the home of most pirates who fill a role in this universe, and the 'brave' stomping grounds of wanna be pvp'ers who really dont know what the hell theyre doing. Make it worthwhile for the area to be used. Give some incentive to both sides of the empire border to actually populate the area, and there could be some pretty damn good battles to fight AND some worthwhile money to be made. Dunno, just a thought. edit: some spelling

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