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Tease
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Posted - 2004.06.11 20:25:00 -
[1]
Now that thongs won't be able to mwd to a target to get within blaster/drone range, what compensation will be applied to make these ships worthwhile?
----------------------------------------- [2003.12.17 06:35:20] Corwin > Orvolle is .4? Doesn't that mean that it's less than .5 ? and isn't .5 what starts the danger level? [2003.12.30 07:15:50] Corwin > Tech 2, IE expanded cargo holds I, MIning lasers 2, etc.... TL2 is being released all around you [2003.12.30 07:21:20] Corwin > tech 2 is released to players. Some players are busy researching the BPs before building stuff. Others are sitting on the BPs making copies to make money off of them that way |
Altai Saker
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Posted - 2004.06.11 20:34:00 -
[2]
Seriously, please don't ignore the fact that gallente ships are going to suck after the patch if things go as planned.
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Jarjar
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Posted - 2004.06.11 21:29:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Tease Now that thongs won't be able to mwd to a target to get within blaster/drone range, what compensation will be applied to make these ships worthwhile?
Why can't they, did I miss something? (Gonna get on chaos to check first thing tomorrow, however I gotta go to sleep now.)
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Johnson McCrae
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Posted - 2004.06.12 13:13:00 -
[4]
If the target is in motion or mwd'ing, the Mega cant turn with MWD to keep track of it It ain't over till the fat lady falls on ya!
[ 2004.10.09 02:50:23 ] (combat) Your 425mm Compressed Coil Gun I perfectly strikes Guardian Sentry, wrecking for 747.3 damage.
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Lansfear
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Posted - 2004.06.12 16:11:00 -
[5]
The megathron will mwd towards target and the target will just move 90¦ to the side. Thron passes right by and cant turn around until the mwd is off and have to expend even more energy getting back to target.
I dont understand this change at all. Its going to kill several forms of pvp instantly.
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Andrew Jade
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Posted - 2004.06.12 17:08:00 -
[6]
Its called having a little buddy with you who webbies the target before you MWD towards it. CCP are trying to make it so you wont want to solo fight in a BS which makes sense. BS's are meant to be used in combination with other ships. Simply have a friggy warp in a webby the target slightly before the megathron/thorax warps in.
Its called adaptation and is easillt worked around with simple thought.
Using BS's on their own from a Rp point of view makes about as much sense as GwBush.
-AJ-
WTB: Large faction smartbomb with good range. Top isk paid.
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Minsc
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Posted - 2004.06.12 17:19:00 -
[7]
Also keep in mind that cycle on MWD bursts has gone down from 10s to 4s, so you will not have to wait as long to turn cause the mwd will wear off sooner. Why doesn't anyone ever read the dev's comments properly, Sheesh.
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Reverend Mitterak
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Posted - 2004.06.12 18:00:00 -
[8]
One of the greatest advantages to BS is extremely fun. I don't think CCP should try and elliminate this aspect of the game. By making the MWD and turn a part of the game, CCP takes away from the inherent firepower of blasters. Megas are going to be very very hard to use since blasters have a range of 3-9k. I suggest removing this change. It is a bad one.
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Reverend Mitterak
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Posted - 2004.06.12 18:02:00 -
[9]
I meant to say one of the greatest advantages to owning a BS is it's ability to Solo Gank.
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Andrew Jade
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Posted - 2004.06.12 18:18:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Reverend Mitterak One of the greatest advantages to BS is extremely fun. I don't think CCP should try and elliminate this aspect of the game. By making the MWD and turn a part of the game, CCP takes away from the inherent firepower of blasters. Megas are going to be very very hard to use since blasters have a range of 3-9k. I suggest removing this change. It is a bad one.
Just think about it from a logical point of view. We're talking about a 1mile long, several hundred thousand tonne behemoth which holds thousands of crew and has weapons capable of wiping out cities in several shots. The very idea that these should be able to go at MWD speeds and be able to turn is simply stupid.
Point two, no one in their right mind would take one of these huge city sized battleships anywhere on their own, and shouldnt be able to use them on their own. Solo crafts are meant to be frigates and cruisers (cruisers to a lesser degree)
Point three, Blasters have a fall off of 20K, with the new changes you will hit better within your fall off. Currently I can hit for around 200 with blasters from 20K, so with the new changes who knows. 0-20K range a megathron is scary.
The MWD change makes sense in all aspects. Sure it annoys people, but you shouldnt be able to 'solo gank' as you so eloquently put it. EVE was always intended to have the 'multi' part of the MMORPG very prominant. If you want to solo take out a frigate or a cruiser.
The MWD changes like everything will be adapted to and will cause some interesting changes in fleet and battle tactics. Two thorax's with AB's rather than MWD's are almost as effective as a lone megathron.
-AJ-
WTB: Large faction smartbomb with good range. Top isk paid.
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MatStar
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Posted - 2004.06.12 19:44:00 -
[11]
Edited by: MatStar on 12/06/2004 19:48:26 this whole agility nerf is stupid, someone brought it up in these forums as his great idea, As far as i know no dev has said anything about it.
Mwd's are essential in this game why nerf something even more that's already nerfed enough! if a pilot wants to go into battle with -25% shield and cap let him.
remeber this is a game, were here to have fun....not b*tch at each other all the time.
I hate forums on the net nearly everyone just flames each other its flippin hard to find a post that some hasnt flamed in......
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Cleric
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Posted - 2004.06.12 21:03:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Andrew Jade Its called having a little buddy with you who webbies the target before you MWD towards it. CCP are trying to make it so you wont want to solo fight in a BS which makes sense. BS's are meant to be used in combination with other ships. Simply have a friggy warp in a webby the target slightly before the megathron/thorax warps in.
I understand your point but this change is still stupid, you should be able to solo with a BS if you wanted to. Granted, it will be easier with frigate support but the proposed changes will leave the megathron useless in this department. I don't see the Apoc, Raven or Tempest unable to solo??
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Orestes
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Posted - 2004.06.12 21:32:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Cleric
I understand your point but this change is still stupid, you should be able to solo with a BS if you wanted to. Granted, it will be easier with frigate support but the proposed changes will leave the megathron useless in this department. I don't see the Apoc, Raven or Tempest unable to solo??
They're pretty devastating Railgun users, though
Join the IC! |
Kalki Nibiru
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Posted - 2004.06.12 21:59:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Orestes
Originally by: Cleric
I understand your point but this change is still stupid, you should be able to solo with a BS if you wanted to. Granted, it will be easier with frigate support but the proposed changes will leave the megathron useless in this department. I don't see the Apoc, Raven or Tempest unable to solo??
They're pretty devastating Railgun users, though
Yeah, they are, but its a shame an Apoc would fare much better with railguns.
The problem here is that each race has specific weapons they are good with, Amarr-Lasers, Minmatar-Projectiles, Caldari-Railguns/Missiles, Gallente-Blasters and as a secondary option, railguns.
Taken from the May 29th 2003 Devchat at EveGate . <Muaddid> Q: When will sentry gun and station and similar construction pods be introduced on the market? <Hellmar> we have various player owned entities already implemented. Sentry guns, power/shield generators, field repair mini-stations, mobile refineries. We are still working out the last tidbits of how they can be over taken, what is the penalty of having a sentry gun kill a n00b etc. and we have been a bit busy with plugging the holes that people have found.I would say that you'd start to see these items on the market in about 2-3 weeks, very expensive to begin with |
GenocidalSpliff
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Posted - 2004.06.12 22:17:00 -
[15]
Theres nothing logical about any of the changes iv seen in the devblog's, other than maybe removing cruise from frigates. I just hope it turns out alright or the devs realise how crap it is and roll it back after wasting so much time on pointless things which make the game crud in general. And have they realised how crap the dominix is yet? :| 2004.08.22 21:03:00 combat Your Anode Light Neutron Particle Cannon I perfectly strikes callonious [BSC], wrecking for 236.9 damage. |
Tease
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Posted - 2004.06.13 02:07:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Orestes
They're pretty devastating Railgun users, though
yeah, and they rawk with miner2's as well, which is all they'll be good for if this nerf goes live..
Could TomB *please* reply to this thread?
He spent a month making everyone test Hybrids on Megathrons to make sure they were doing optimal damage at the 10k-20k range..
He specifically noted how this was the primary weapon of choice for the Mega. He went on to talk about how the Mega was geared for mwd'ing to a target to get in optimal range and open fire with blasters. all other race ships had boosts to optimize their long-range offensiveness.
----------------------------------------- [2003.12.17 06:35:20] Corwin > Orvolle is .4? Doesn't that mean that it's less than .5 ? and isn't .5 what starts the danger level? [2003.12.30 07:15:50] Corwin > Tech 2, IE expanded cargo holds I, MIning lasers 2, etc.... TL2 is being released all around you [2003.12.30 07:21:20] Corwin > tech 2 is released to players. Some players are busy researching the BPs before building stuff. Others are sitting on the BPs making copies to make money off of them that way |
Andrew Jade
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Posted - 2004.06.13 05:52:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Cleric
Originally by: Andrew Jade Its called having a little buddy with you who webbies the target before you MWD towards it. CCP are trying to make it so you wont want to solo fight in a BS which makes sense. BS's are meant to be used in combination with other ships. Simply have a friggy warp in a webby the target slightly before the megathron/thorax warps in.
I understand your point but this change is still stupid, you should be able to solo with a BS if you wanted to. Granted, it will be easier with frigate support but the proposed changes will leave the megathron useless in this department. I don't see the Apoc, Raven or Tempest unable to solo??
All BS's will find it hard soloing after patch. The raven will not have such a big deal due to the fact that missile agility and hitting is messed up currently, but when they've sorted that on top of the turret changes a few frigs with cruisers will rinse a BS on its own. You wont want to take a BS solo after patch cos if your caught by frigates your ****ed :)
Anyway, no you shouldnt be able to solo in a BS, you should have to have freinds to fight in BS;s. You wanna solo take a frig or cruiser.
Also as oresetes said, megsthrons ROCK with rail guns.
-AJ-
WTB: Large faction smartbomb with good range. Top isk paid.
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Drakxter
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Posted - 2004.06.13 06:50:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Drakxter on 13/06/2004 06:54:17
Originally by: Altai Saker Seriously, please don't ignore the fact that gallente ships are going to suck after the patch if things go as planned.
Why do you think they will suck..
After the chances they will have better chances VS missiles.
Also, as it is now on TQ, missiles are overpowered.. Frigate with turrets vs frigate with missiles almost have no chances. ------------- Most tired of thing atm: - Mods on the forum saying: "Please use the bug report page to submit bugs, the forum is not the place to post them." and then closing a topic. |
Hawk Firestorm
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Posted - 2004.06.13 10:40:00 -
[19]
They're pretty devastating Railgun users, though
Yes and no.
While blasters are fast firing their range is far too short for a Battleship class weapon, forcing users to use MWD's etc in order to close with the target which in itself puts them at a massive disadvantage.
This is one area I think where the design of Gal BS ships is completely wrong there should be a viable long range option for them.
Yes there are 425 rails however the fitting requirements for them are somewhat restrictive, making fitting them in any quantity in a good fit very difficult indeed.
One reason sadly my mega spends most of it's time as a glorified mining hull.
This is very graphically displayed while huntin NPC's, they tend to hover well outside your gun or smartbomb range and you don't have the speed or manuverability to do anything about it, and when they do indeed come close and start orbiting your lucky to land one shot with the tracking changes.
IMO 3k range weps on a BS is just simply nuts, that simply shouldn't be a role for a Battleship.
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Dash Ripcock
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Posted - 2004.06.13 11:38:00 -
[20]
A Mega-T with 350mm Rails and Armour-tanking is a fearsome opponent, and even a match for a Raven at 20-30Km.
Battle Angels Inc - The Movie |
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Nina Meyers
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Posted - 2004.06.13 12:21:00 -
[21]
Well Megas are good for two things after the patch; killing NPC and mining.
So please feel free to step out from your little fantasies. |
Cleric
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Posted - 2004.06.13 13:04:00 -
[22]
I've hardly heard anyone complaining about the Megathron being too overpowered lately. Alot of people agree it's quite balanced so can you explain why you are nerfing it while beefing up the other races??
It already has a hard time getting close enough to it's opponent, with the cap drain and damage taken on approach. Some people were even asking for a slight bonus when fitting a MWD on one, instead you nerf it. You are going to make it even worse at something it was designed to do, where is the logic in that??
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Andrew Jade
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Posted - 2004.06.13 14:57:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Cleric
It already has a hard time getting close enough to it's opponent, with the cap drain and damage taken on approach. Some people were even asking for a slight bonus when fitting a MWD on one, instead you nerf it. You are going to make it even worse at something it was designed to do, where is the logic in that??
nice to see that hardly anyone payed attention to my post.
Bs's are not meant to be used on their own. As such the ability to work with another ship with the megathron is essential. Having a straight MWD is not a prob if you have a handy catch friggy with you. A megathron should engage from about 20K, if you MWding to someone beyond that then your an idiot. So the fact that they can move doesnt make a huge difference, and even if it does, having a frigate webby it is an easy solution. Also if you have decent navigation and engineering skills a 20K MWd should only at most get your cap to about 60%, maybee a little left, but with a named MWD and decent skills easilly 60%.
Just for reference, your not forced to use MWD's on a mega with blasters. I've been using a Tempest with 800's with no MWD for ages now and simply using TS well you can work out where to warp to with your gang mates. You dont even need one if you use your brain a little.
-AJ-
WTB: Large faction smartbomb with good range. Top isk paid.
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Earthan
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Posted - 2004.06.13 18:38:00 -
[24]
Andrew do you know where is the problem?
The fact that many persons want to be able to fight in bs alone and find it funny.
Anyway the frigs are very useful and it alwys a good add to a fleet, why nerf additionaly something thats fun?
It wassnt destroying any game mechanics, mwd-ing toward target was already risky and you dont see so much close range setup.
Im quite upset i loved to go hunting alone wiht my blasterthron , lets see if it will be possible after patch.
If not i will loose much joy i think.
Stars, stars like dust, all around me.... |
Earthan
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Posted - 2004.06.13 18:49:00 -
[25]
And for your close range setup without mwd i would like to see you warping in battle within 3-4 km of target wich is needed for blasthertron
Stars, stars like dust, all around me.... |
Minsc
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Posted - 2004.06.13 20:03:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Earthan And for your close range setup without mwd i would like to see you warping in battle within 3-4 km of target wich is needed for blasthertron
Erm...only if you're using Anti-Matter...there are other types of ammo you know.
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Earthan
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Posted - 2004.06.13 20:46:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Earthan on 13/06/2004 20:47:24
Originally by: Minsc
Originally by: Earthan And for your close range setup without mwd i would like to see you warping in battle within 3-4 km of target wich is needed for blasthertron
Erm...only if you're using Anti-Matter...there are other types of ammo you know.
Yes great idea you can put iron ammo to your blasters, have optimal of ~10 km and get eaten by somebody using 425 mm rails with antimatter, fighting at 10 km. Great idea.
Stars, stars like dust, all around me.... |
Earthan
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Posted - 2004.06.13 20:56:00 -
[28]
I repeat to really get the advantage of a blasthertron you need to get closer then ~3500 m to target ship.If these changes will make it impossible( wich i am not convinced anyway wich bs uses mwd in combet?if it doesnt have one if wont be able to get away from me mwding even in straight line) ,the blastherthron will die.
Stars, stars like dust, all around me.... |
Andrew Jade
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Posted - 2004.06.14 07:36:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Earthan I repeat to really get the advantage of a blasthertron you need to get closer then ~3500 m to target ship.If these changes will make it impossible( wich i am not convinced anyway wich bs uses mwd in combet?if it doesnt have one if wont be able to get away from me mwding even in straight line) ,the blastherthron will die.
Fall off.
Not sure about your skills etc matey, but when I was using a megathron I could hit for 200 at 20K. Auto cannons have a worse optimal than blasters and I can hit due to the fall off the same as hybrids can. Blasters and close range weapons rely more on fall off than optimal. Also added to this the new fall off changes which mean your hitting is improved within the fall off of your weapons then youll hit harder rom further out.
You can have far more fun soloing in a frigate or cruiser.
And yes using communication from your fellow gang mates I can drop myself about 10K from an enermy most times and therefore shread them with 800's.
On a final note, who gives a crap if it was fun to solo in a BS, you were never meant to, and also the new changes make it far more balancesd in respects to newer players who will be able to be effective in frigates and cruisers.
-AJ-
WTB: Large faction smartbomb with good range. Top isk paid.
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Gween
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Posted - 2004.06.14 08:43:00 -
[30]
Please shut it, Andrew.
If you like to always relay on your gang mates - fine, but many (and mean many) peoples like to do solo pvp and the blasterthron was/(is, atm) nice to do this. If it cant change direction while mwd'ing to target - wrecked thron. Thron will be a nice but kinda useless ship after patch - it cant armor tank well (and deal damage without cap problems) nor shield tank.
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Coffee'n'Toffee makes Gween happy Coffee'n'Toffee makes Gween happy ... |
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