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Luzz Bightyear
Caldari
The PeacekeeperZ
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Posted - 2008.09.08 16:27:00 -
[1]
I'm sure a lot of people will agree that as they are, Destroyers are next to useless.
They're about as easy to pop as a frigate with the signature radius and speed of a cruiser. IMO they need to have their HP doubled. Not to mention the unnecessary 50% penalty to turret RoF removed. Destroyers, in RL navies, are small, tough boats that have the firepower to reduce their targets to scrap.
What niche are they filling in their current state, seriously? Aren't they supposed to be frigate killers? A well fitted frigate could easily outperform a destroyer with next to no effort. They just aren't worth using.
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Hi-ho, hi-ho,
It's off to lowsec we go,
With a sh*t fit 'sprey, and T1 drones,
Hi-ho, hi-ho hi-ho hi-ho.
- Anon |
H Lecter
Gallente
The Black Rabbits
The Gurlstas Associates
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Posted - 2008.09.08 16:36:00 -
[2]
 Originally by: Luzz Bightyear
A well fitted frigate could easily outperform a destroyer with next to no effort.
Sure, at least when the destroyer pilot is afk.
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Luzz Bightyear
Caldari
The PeacekeeperZ
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Posted - 2008.09.08 16:52:00 -
[3]
Tell that to all the people who have actually tried to PvP in destroyers.
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Hi-ho, hi-ho,
It's off to lowsec we go,
With a sh*t fit 'sprey, and T1 drones,
Hi-ho, hi-ho hi-ho hi-ho.
- Anon |
Commander Kaj
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Posted - 2008.09.08 16:59:00 -
[4]
Actually you fit a destroyer with t2 railguns, and you have yourself an excellent lvl 1 mission runner. I ran wc lvl 1 by myself with that setup and barely even took any damage.
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Straight Chillen
Gallente
Solar Wind
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Posted - 2008.09.08 17:08:00 -
[5]
i personally feel the best way to fix destroyers is increasing the number of mid and low slots, and giving em a bit more PG and CPU so they can have some more variation. Currently their slot arrangement keeps 2 of them (coercer & cormorant) from being much of a use.
_
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Commander Kaj
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Posted - 2008.09.08 17:14:00 -
[6]
the coercer is almost completely useless, but the corm is what I had setup with the railguns, and it was fantastic. I also currently use it as a dedicated salvageing ship and once again it works extremely well.
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Abrazzar
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Posted - 2008.09.08 17:16:00 -
[7]
Check Here! for links to improvement ideas for destroyers.
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Ideas for: Mining
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Wayward Hero
Gallente
Aliastra
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Posted - 2008.09.08 18:04:00 -
[8]
Click Here for another list of improvement ideas for destroyers
And add your own!!!
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The Forgotten Children of EVE |
Bronson Hughes
ADVANCED Combat and Engineering
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Posted - 2008.09.08 18:11:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Bronson Hughes on 08/09/2008 18:15:46
Destroyers are not so much underpowered as they are grossly short on EHP. Although they posess more firepower than any frigate, they're usually easier to kill than frigates so their usefulness in most PvP situations is limited.
They need a HP buff and mabye an extra mid/low slot or two to bring them at least on par with their tier 3 frigate counterparts. Nothing crazy, just enough to make them as tough compared to frigates as battlecruisers are to cruisers. Give them that and they'll be fine.
EDIT: It's a 25% penalty to RoF, not a 50% one. This still gives Destroyers more DPS than their frigate counterparts with a much better alpha strike.
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"I am hard pressed on my right; my centre is giving way; situation excellent; I am attacking." - Ferdinand Foch at the Battle of the Marne |
Tarron Sarek
Gallente
Cadien Cybernetics
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Posted - 2008.09.08 20:03:00 -
[10]
One possibility would be to give every destroyer more med and/or low slots.
Right now fitting options for destroyers are very limited, most likely too limited.
Just +1 slot would be problematic, because it would be hard to keep them different in slot layout.
It might look something like this:
Coercer 8/1/5
Cormorant 8/4/2
Catalyst 8/2/4
Thrasher 8/3/3
And Amarr players would very likely be dissatisfied with keeping the single med slot. 8/2/4 on both Coercr and Catalyst would be possible, but kinda boring because it kills variety. 8/3/3 on the Catalyst would look a bit wrong since Gallente are usually armor tanks. Apart from that it would make the Thrasher a 8/4/2 and the Cormorant a 8/5/1 layout. Possible, but.. I don't know. That should be discussed.
+2 slots keeps the variety, provides the Amarr destroyer with a much needed second med slot, and still doesn't really make them overpowered imho, if CPU and PG stay the same:
Coercer 8/2/5
Cormorant 8/5/2
Catalyst 8/3/4
Thrasher 8/4/3
I think by increasing slot count and fitting options, destroyers would be superior to frigates just like they were intended to be, but still die to cruisers due to inferior tank, dps and lack of speed.
I'm aware of the fact that under no circumstances destroyers should make Assault Ships obsolete, but once those get their well deserved speed boost and real fourth bonus, Assault Ship survivability against cruisers will be much higher than that of destroyers, the combat profile different enough and hopefully their place in EVE combat groups secured/restored.
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Balance is power, guard hide it well
"Ceterum censeo Polycarbonem esse delendam" |
Kilostream
Roving Guns Inc.
RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2008.09.08 21:07:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Luzz Bightyear
....I'm sure a lot of people will agree that as they are, Destroyers are next to useless....
Yeah next to useless....Unless you're good with 'em
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Fullmetal Jackass
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Posted - 2008.09.09 00:24:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Fullmetal Jackass on 09/09/2008 00:24:30
Originally by: Luzz Bightyear
I'm sure a lot of people will agree that as they are, Destroyers are next to useless.
They're about as easy to pop as a frigate with the signature radius and speed of a cruiser. IMO they need to have their HP doubled. Not to mention the unnecessary 50% penalty to turret RoF removed. Destroyers, in RL navies, are small, tough boats that have the firepower to reduce their targets to scrap.
What niche are they filling in their current state, seriously? Aren't they supposed to be frigate killers? A well fitted frigate could easily outperform a destroyer with next to no effort. They just aren't worth using.
It's a 25% RoF penalty. Destroyers pop frigates quite well actually. It yer having trouble with friagtes in a destroyer, yer doin it wrong.
Destroyers in RL are there to absorb torpedos before they hit the carrier and as a platform for phalanx guns. They aren't all that tough (zero armor). It's just a general use ship that's cheap and semi fast. They are called tin cans for a reason.
I kinda like destroyers in game. I'd be more then happy if they added a T2 version that really is a destroyer.
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Galia Bonaventure
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Posted - 2008.09.09 16:41:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Kilostream
Originally by: Luzz Bightyear
....I'm sure a lot of people will agree that as they are, Destroyers are next to useless....
Yeah next to useless....Unless you have enough of 'em to invade China
Fixed
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Fullmetal Jackass
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Posted - 2008.09.09 17:54:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Commander Kaj
Actually you fit a destroyer with t2 railguns, and you have yourself an excellent lvl 1 mission runner. I ran wc lvl 1 by myself with that setup and barely even took any damage.
You actually need t2 rails on a destroyer to run a lvl 1? Stop posting, you're making yourself look like a noob.
I've used a destroyer with nomal basic t1 everything to run lvl 2's for like forever. I think you all don't know how to set the ships up properly. Ok I'll usually fit a t2 repper or shield booster just because they are so cheap.
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Arna Padrona
Amarr
Re-Awakened Technologies Inc
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Posted - 2008.09.09 19:43:00 -
[15]
The destroyer class is tricky to fly, and impossible to solo with - I can live with that. Correctly applied though, it can wreak more havoc on a battlefield than most peopl like to realise. I've seen destroyers rip apart 3 interceptors before going down themselves.
I'll agree in part though - the destroyer class needs love. Lots of it. Why aren't there destroyers with resist/repairing/shield boosting bonuses, and others with weapon bonuses? It's the only "basic" ship class that hasn't gotten a second hull yet. Where's the variations?
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matarkhan
Soldi di Protezione
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Posted - 2008.09.09 19:55:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Commander Kaj
Actually you fit a destroyer with t2 railguns, and you have yourself an excellent lvl 1 mission runner. I ran wc lvl 1 by myself with that setup and barely even took any damage.
If you've trained up T2 rails, what the hell are you doing running level 1s?
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procurement specialist
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Posted - 2008.09.09 20:29:00 -
[17]
caldari military start with small hybrid V. it only takes a couple days for t2 small rails.
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Tascaithos
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Posted - 2008.09.14 11:23:00 -
[18]
Improvements to destroyers...
- Reduce sig radius, currently they all have about 80-90 iirc, reduce to ~60. Immediately makes them a fair bit less useless. Half the sig radius of a cruiser, which sounds about right.
- Mayyyybe a slot or two, as has been suggested.
Destroyers w/ medium guns is the wrong approach, they're supposed to use tons of small guns and pwn the bejeesus out of frig swarms. 
T2 destys could be awesome but would, if executed appropriately, make intys obsolete.
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Binarii
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Posted - 2008.09.14 16:35:00 -
[19]
I think they should lower the sig radius at least.
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Ruze
Amarr
No Applicable Corporation
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Posted - 2008.09.14 16:51:00 -
[20]
I think they either should keep their sig radius, and up the armor to cruiser level, or keep their armor, and decrease their sig radius to near frigate level.
One way or the other. Slots are a bit strange, but with eight highs its hard to justify adding more lows or mids.
Originally by: CCP Greyscale
consciously deciding not to join a corp is pretty much deciding that you don't want to have fun
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