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Zorrill
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Posted - 2008.09.09 11:25:00 -
[1]
Has anybody heard what the latest is from Eefrit? It's been a couple of months since he got access to the BPOs and I haven't heard anything. Eefrit, do we have any idea when/how much we are going to see? All responses much appreciated.
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Mular Sumnar
Gallente
Espire
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Posted - 2008.09.11 23:16:00 -
[2]
Shameless Bump. 
Anarchism is founded on the observation that since few men are wise enough to rule themselves, even fewer are wise enough to rule others.
Edward Abbey |
Industra
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Posted - 2008.10.01 11:31:00 -
[3]
little update wouldnt hurt... when can we expect a buyback of fin shares, what timeframe? Looks like a lot of t2 bpo's sold of pretty well
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Eefrit
Eve Financial Services
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Posted - 2008.10.01 13:53:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: Zorrill
Has anybody heard what the latest is from Eefrit? It's been a couple of months since he got access to the BPOs and I haven't heard anything. Eefrit, do we have any idea when/how much we are going to see? All responses much appreciated.
Hi Zorrill,
The problem with the buyback for FIN is that all the BPOs need to be sold, or the full amount needs to be raised before I can start a buyback. Based on the current trends I would estimate that 75-80% of IPO price will be obtained, but that will still take some time.
I have been thinking about offering a preliminary buyback for 70% of value (I can be sure of that amount at least) right now with the money I have on hand (which is quite a lot). If enough investors would like me to do this, I will do it in the same way that I have with FIN-U on ResX. Note, I am only interested in investors opinions here, so if you aren't an investor I will ignore you.
/Eefrit |
Ricdics
Tleilex Developments
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Posted - 2008.10.01 14:05:00 -
[5]
Ok I am not really a full blown investor anymore but I think one of my alt has about 300k worth of shares. Anyway why not just post buybacks at 100% subject to fund availability and start nipping it in the bud? A lot of people will take months to take you up on your offer however at least you can say you are doing something.
Right now unless I am mistaken you have had a few months with no dividends and no buybacks effectively dead stocks. At least start the buybacks for those wanting to get out.
Offering at 70% imo is a cop-out on your shareholders. |
Eefrit
Eve Financial Services
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Posted - 2008.10.01 15:44:00 -
[6]
Doing what you suggest would be illegal in the real world for a very good reason. It penalises anyone that is not paying attention to the game at this very moment and is something that I will not consider. You are effectively asking me to make the people with real life commitments and limited game time to pay for those with more game time. Not going to happen!
Offering a voluntary 70% buyback now for those that want to cash out now rather than wait a few more months for a 75-80% buyback is nothing close to a cop out. It is giving investors an option they never had before, and one that they are more than welcome to choose not to avail themselves of.
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Ricdics
Tleilex Developments
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Posted - 2008.10.01 15:49:00 -
[7]
Many operations have actually done buybacks as they have raised the money to do so. Hell, you do precisely that with FIN-U right now. Not sure what the difference is tbh. RL regulations don't apply in Eve btw  |
Marcus Baltar
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Posted - 2008.10.01 16:20:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Eefrit
FIN - Eve Financial Services
We have managed to get access to the FIN BPOs recently and they are in the process of being sold off. From the sales so far it appears that investors will receive 100% of IPO value. However, it is only possible to start the buyback procedure once either all the BPOs have been sold or 100% of the IPO value has been raised through sales. Realistically I anticipate this being at least a month.
FIN-U
Some of the assets have been sold off and I have thus far bought all the FIN-U bonds listed on both ResX and EGSE for IPO price (1 million Isk) or less. ALL FIN-U bonds will be bought back at IPO price, with a large amount of the Isk needed being liquid right now as I wait for more people to put theirs up for sale
PLEASE NOTE: From now onwards I will only be buying back FIN-U bonds through ResX (http://resx.nfshost.com/) as it significantly faster to do and does not require that I do a transfer for each and every sell order (there are over 1000 Investors, so that would take too much of my limited time).
I will try and keep this thread updated with the current status every week or two.
Quoted from here.
Can you confirm the FIN-U buyback is continuing as the last buyback was 2008.09.07 and there is close to four billion waiting now. 
The last you reported (above) was that FIN would be a 100% buyback - have the BPO prices fallen again? I thought they had rallied at the time of the above post, and were possibly higher now? 
I would prefer that a 100% (or 95%) buyback be actioned as per the original offer, as you are doing with FIN-U through RESX. This enables you to buy the bonds/shares as you get the money and people can set a sell order if they are anticipating being out of game.
Before you say that I have no bonds/shares in FIN - they are all sitting on RESX awaiting the buyback(s) as I have been too busy in RL to play for a while (and account therefore lapsed), and unfortunately anticipate the same in the not too distant future. Feel free to ask Balogh - I am sure (and hope) that he would be willing to confirm I have FIN (and FIN-U) bonds/shares up for sale on RESX.
Player Stock Exchanges;
Eve Galactic Stock Exchange (EGSE) & Real-time EVE Stock Exchange (RESX) |
Zorrill
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Posted - 2008.10.01 17:04:00 -
[9]
Thanks for your response, I appreciate Eve is probably not a priority for you right now. I would wecome any sort of a buyback, although I would like it stated what would happen to the additional funds raised by buying back at under BPO market value - ie would this be returned to those who waited for a full realisation of assets.
I would also appreciate any info on why buyback is lower than most recently expected - I presume lower BPO prices but nice to have confirmation.
The most equitable way of doing this is to dividend it out as capital is raised, I know this is a PIA but don't know how much of one as a one off.
Thanks again for your response (yes I am a shareholder)
Z
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Eefrit
Eve Financial Services
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Posted - 2008.10.01 17:29:00 -
[10]
Zorrill, The first few BPOs sold for a lot more than expected, which is why I stated that "so far" they look to be going for 100% of IPO.
a 70% buyback is what I am completely confident can be raised from the sell off of assets. It may be more, but I don't see it being any less at all. If when some are bought back at 70% and all the BPOs are sold, and lets say for arguments sake, there is 80% per bond left for those that did not sell back, the full 80% will be set as a buyback figure.
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Zorrill
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Posted - 2008.10.01 18:37:00 -
[11]
That being the case, I will wait. Many thanks for the update. If anyone wants to sell FIN at 70%, I will consider buying,
Z
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cosmoray
Cosmoray Construction
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Posted - 2008.10.01 19:12:00 -
[12]
Erefit,
If you are still selling assets, what do you have to unload, or who is handling the sale.
Might be interested in some stuff!
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SencneS
Amarr
Rebellion Against big Irreversible Dinks
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Posted - 2008.10.01 21:23:00 -
[13]
I'm not a huge investor but I have over a billion in there.
What percentage of shares do you have to buy back? 100% or is it something like 93% because FIN holds some of its own shares?
Due to the size I really appreciate the time and effort you put forth, being in EBANK I understand some of the difficulties of utilizing huge amount of ISK for even a small gain. A 30%, even 15% loss on the buyback seems excessive. The 100B IPO started with 120B worth of Security BPOs. Are you saying that BPOs have dropped 41% in value? (Math is 100-(70Bil buy back / original 120B security) = 41.66%) That seems like an excessive loss.
Amarr for Life |
Treelox
Amarr
Market Jihadist Revolutionary Party
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Posted - 2008.10.01 22:06:00 -
[14]
Originally by: SencneS
I'm not a huge investor but I have over a billion in there.
What percentage of shares do you have to buy back? 100% or is it something like 93% because FIN holds some of its own shares?
Due to the size I really appreciate the time and effort you put forth, being in EBANK I understand some of the difficulties of utilizing huge amount of ISK for even a small gain. A 30%, even 15% loss on the buyback seems excessive. The 100B IPO started with 120B worth of Security BPOs. Are you saying that BPOs have dropped 41% in value? (Math is 100-(70Bil buy back / original 120B security) = 41.66%) That seems like an excessive loss.
I know from a real casual no specifics, conversation I had with Eefrit a while back, that one or maybe more of his BPO's were seriously effected by the Script/Ecm change/NERF. No idea exactly how much or anything, just something I think I know.
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Eefrit
Eve Financial Services
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Posted - 2008.10.02 13:04:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Eefrit on 02/10/2008 13:07:27
SencneS, FIN doesn't hold any of its own bonds. I personally have about 5 or 6 Billion Isk in them, but those will be bought back at the same rate that everyone else's are.
As far as BPO values go, they have tanked a huge amount. Consider some BPOs that were making 7 Bill Isk a month (that were bought for a LOT) that have now shifted to making less than 500 mill Isk a month. The 70% is a 99% confidence number, not the number I *think* will be achieved and is available to people that want to get their Isk now rather than wait. What is achieved is dependent on too many things in this unstable market to know what the final figure will be
As for what cosmoray asked, all assets are being sold on the forums with alts. If you see something there that you like then buy it.
/Eefrit
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Block Ukx
Block Ships and Ammunitions
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Posted - 2008.10.02 14:42:00 -
[16]
It is perfectly understandable that your liquidation is going to take a very long time. Since most bpos have drop in value, I find it hard to believe you are going to come out with 100% NAV after liquidating the company. Any investor that thinks otherwise does not understand the meaning of intrinsic share price. From reading between the lines, I imagine youÆre trying to bring NAV up with current operations and without paying dividends. That is a formula for disaster.
Now as I understand it, you are liquidating the corporation, correct? Rather than issuing a low buy-back, which is perfectly fine and I think it is a good idea, my suggestion would be to start with a debt settlement with investors. In this case, you value bpos at acquisition price, and shares at IPO price. This establishes a bpo value in terms of shares; letÆs call it BPO-sp. Let investors use their shares to bid on bpos starting at BPO-sp and set the auction buyout at no more than 3% above BPO-sp. One important thing, start with your best bpo and any earnings above BPO-sp must be used to reduce the remaining bpoÆs value.
Such a system will encourage investors to purchase stock from other investors with the purpose of acquiring a bpos. I believe this is a win-win situation for both you and your investors.
BSAC Mineral Market Manipulation (MinMa) Information Desk |
cosmoray
Cosmoray Construction
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Posted - 2008.10.02 14:54:00 -
[17]
Another simple way would be to hand out ISK as it comes in via dividends.
That means if you already have, for example, 50% of NAV shareholders get that. When more BPO's are sold repeat. No need for buybacks, and the shareholders get their money quicker rather than hanging for many months before the buyback starts.
Once all the BPO's sold and money is gone to shareholders via divs, make an announcement, the shares just become bits of paper.
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Aslord
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Posted - 2008.10.02 20:36:00 -
[18]
it been very long time to get to their sh*t together!
please prove me wrong its not a scam.
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Usaria
Infusion.
G00DFELLAS
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Posted - 2008.10.02 22:10:00 -
[19]
Eefrit,
I have a nice chunk of shares in FIN, I don't have a lot of time to watch the reports etc. and keep up to date as I'm in the military. Would my best bet be to drop them on RESX @ 10,000 isk per share?
-Ria
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Aslord
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Posted - 2008.10.02 22:28:00 -
[20]
its funny to think that all the suppose bpo FIN holds to be sitting idle.
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Grendell
Technologies Unlimited
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Posted - 2008.10.02 22:42:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Aslord
it been very long time to get to their sh*t together!
please prove me wrong its not a scam.
Have you not noticed a lot of T2 bpos suddenly being sold on the forums by random alts?
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Eefrit
Eve Financial Services
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Posted - 2008.10.03 00:38:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Usaria
Eefrit,
I have a nice chunk of shares in FIN, I don't have a lot of time to watch the reports etc. and keep up to date as I'm in the military. Would my best bet be to drop them on RESX @ 10,000 isk per share?
-Ria
I would think that your best bet would be to hand them over to a friend that you trust to look after. If you are away for a while, it won't effect the buyback as it will stay open for at least a year - probably more. I am not going to do anything that will penalise people that are away from the game with real life commitments.
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clonkrieger
Imperium Forces
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Posted - 2008.10.03 01:28:00 -
[23]
Would anyone like to buy more of these share's, I have 700,000 I would like to sell. Contact me ingame.
___________________________
Returned after being absent.
Updating... |
Usaria
Infusion.
G00DFELLAS
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Posted - 2008.10.03 23:12:00 -
[24]
thnx for the speedy reply Eefrit. o/
-Ria
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Invisible Hand
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Posted - 2008.10.03 23:24:00 -
[25]
Originally by: cosmoray
Another simple way would be to hand out ISK as it comes in via dividends.
This, please. Seems like the simplest way - just pay out liquidation proceeds periodically as they become available.
(I am an investor)
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Treelox
Amarr
Market Jihadist Revolutionary Party
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Posted - 2008.10.04 00:20:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Invisible Hand
Originally by: cosmoray
Another simple way would be to hand out ISK as it comes in via dividends.
This, please. Seems like the simplest way - just pay out liquidation proceeds periodically as they become available.
(I am an investor)
I hope eefrit does NOT do this.
My reasoning, is that in late November of last Year I know that Ionia had bought a good chunk of both FIN and FIN-U. I doubt Ionia sold them before he dissappeared. I would hate to see a dead and/or scam character like Ionia get some of the iskies. Splittling up our pot even further, especially if the liquidation value doesnt add up to 100%.
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clonkrieger
Imperium Forces
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Posted - 2008.10.04 00:40:00 -
[27]
I too do not support such a method. |
cosmoray
Cosmoray Construction
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Posted - 2008.10.04 18:48:00 -
[28]
Edited by: cosmoray on 04/10/2008 18:48:53
Originally by: Treelox
Originally by: Invisible Hand
Originally by: cosmoray
Another simple way would be to hand out ISK as it comes in via dividends.
This, please. Seems like the simplest way - just pay out liquidation proceeds periodically as they become available.
(I am an investor)
I hope eefrit does NOT do this.
My reasoning, is that in late November of last Year I know that Ionia had bought a good chunk of both FIN and FIN-U. I doubt Ionia sold them before he dissappeared. I would hate to see a dead and/or scam character like Ionia get some of the iskies. Splittling up our pot even further, especially if the liquidation value doesnt add up to 100%.
How much does Ionia (and perhaps Fastlearner) own. If it is over 15-20%, Erifit can calculate these players out, he may be able to start a buyback right away on the stock exchange allowing a lot of players to get there 100%.
If players get their 100% back, not many people will care what happens to Ionia's shares.
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Treelox
Amarr
Market Jihadist Revolutionary Party
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Posted - 2008.10.04 19:03:00 -
[29]
Originally by: cosmoray
How much does Ionia (and perhaps Fastlearner) own. If it is over 15-20%, Erifit can calculate these players out, he may be able to start a buyback right away on the stock exchange allowing a lot of players to get there 100%.
If players get their 100% back, not many people will care what happens to Ionia's shares.
I have no idea how much those guys own. From what i have gathered by eefrits responses in this thread though, he cant offer anyone 100% of anything yet. It seems he is still in the process of liquidating BPO's. If he buys back now at 100% and then fails to get opitmal prices on the rest of the BPO's those who go in for the buy back later will get screwed.
At least that is my understanding.
As to why he is taking so long to liquidate all the bpo's. I have no idea.
--
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Ignition SemperFi
The Arrow Project
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2008.10.04 22:39:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Ignition SemperFi on 04/10/2008 22:42:05
is it ok to scam a scammer out of isk? I say yes and ionia shouldnt get anything back.
On to the topic at hand.
Having stock in FIN i definately like to keep my eye on this issue.
Paying out dividens till the money runs out means money could be going to people no longer in the game due to bans, emoragequits, or other reasons. Where as a buyback ensure the people that want their isk back, get it.
If you go through with an early bird cash out I would support it IF and only IF it was for a certain set period and after that we look at a 100% cash back once you have the fund neccessary to pay back everyone.
Really between not paying back ionia, those who would rather get 70% now and not wait any longer, a small few who may not be in the game any longer and just quit without dumping shares, you should be able to cover the 100% buyback.
ON a side note, i do think your personal 5-6bil worth of bonds should be the last bought back, as a sign of good faith considering the vast time without dividens. But this is more personal opinion
------
People Say Im paranoid because I have a gun, I say I dont have to be paranoid because I have a gun.
Garmon - "I LOK ON TO ROMULAN WARBIRD AND GO POW POW POW" |
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