Respect for the apology, you seem sincere there Alex. But I think for the good of the CSM project going forwards and for CCP's reputation in the wider gaming press you should resign as Chair at the minimum and allow another CSM member to take responsibility for leading the player council this year.

The CSM needs a leader with the respect of the player base at this point. You no longer have it.

Eve is coming to a far better state it was in the previous year and the future looks very optimistic. The last thing any of us need is to be reading about cyber-bullying and out of character abuse at fanfest when everyone involved with eve on the player or CCP side just needs to put the bad times behind us and get on with promoting and playing this game.

You worked in the interests of the player base last year Alex alongside the Jita and unsub protests to help CCP turn the ship around and sail out from under the spectre of microtransaction-crazy disaster. Let that be your legacy.

Now its time to resign as chair and let somebody else take a turn.

Let's also keep in mind this isn't a young person but a grown adult in his mid 30s.

Why exactly do you disagree with what I have written here?

And as you are seeing from the responses of genuine independent eve players in this thread - its simply not acceptable.

But what happened at fanfest had nothing to do with "the mittani" the character. It was Alex gianturkeyo ripping on some other player as the leader of Eve's player council in the view of the cameras in a performance that was immediately replayed and analysed by the gaming press.

He did it as himself, the leader of the CSM. And as you are seeing from the responses of genuine independent eve players in this thread - its simply not acceptable.

You goons really aren't saying anything apart from "la la la I'm not listening la la la" (and putting your hands over your ears while reading out prepared memes somebody else made earlier.)

You are about as independent as a monkey on an organ-grinder's chain.

Thats wriggling Tyrrax and you are only saying it because you are a desperate goon wannabe at heart (but I forgive you)

You are about as independent as a monkey on an organ-grinder's chain.

Well lol tbh, I kinda revealed that I worked as a marketing consultant when I ran for CSM the first time - what exactly is your point?

(as mud throwing goes thats a bit random/surrealist)

I have a funny story about the time chief of goon intelligence sent that exact accusation to one of my clients at a London telecoms company. Was pretty funny explaining how seriously a clan of internet spaceship warriors took PR and RL character assassination in the universe of new eden over coffee and donuts that morning. Even more ironically the guy in charge of "good intel" back then was one Mittani. What a coincidence!

(PS when goons are desperate they tell lots of lies about people.)

...he is no longer a fitting representative for the Eve player community and the longer he takes to gather his courage and follow-through with the promised resignation the more harm he continues to do.

Well I could be flippant and say its because I have 40x as many likes as you for genuine posts or I could say its because I watched Fanfest and got the point of the messaging they were putting out (and agreed with it.) I could well say its because I won the CSM elections previously while most have probably never even heard your name.

But ultimately the answer to your question is because I consider myself a member of the eve player community rather than a a member of some other community that just comes here to troll.

Likes on a forun suggest that somebody likes what they've read.

Well like it or not *ahem* one of the ways that we can get a sense of how well a forum discussion is going is to see whether third party reads support a particular point of view or not. Imagine for a moment if Eve forums had a system whereby you could sort the responses to a thread by "likes" (as is common with many media sites that allow public posting incidently). Then you'd probably see the "goonish" responses banished to the outdarkness of page 100+ while more genuinely thought out posts were closer to the start.

Likes on a forun suggest that somebody likes what they've read.

And sure, its exploitable and many of the goons have done just that with script-hacks and such - but generally you can see when a quality poster is attracting likes for a post it means they are putting a reasonable argument across.

I tend to "like" posts that have some substance (or occassionally ones that make me laugh). The reason why you have attracted so few likes is that you aren't really saying anything that 10,000 goons haven't said already. (la la la la I'm not listening la).

[quote=Kallynda Nai]


Likes on a forun suggest that somebody likes what they've read.

And sure, its exploitable and many of the goons have done just that with script-hacks and such - but generally you can see when a quality poster is attracting likes for a post it means they are putting a reasonable argument across.

On that point we'll have to agree to disagree. I as a player of eve online have expressed my view that Alexander Gianturco is no longer an appropriate chair of the player council in Eve online. Its my right and priviledge as a paying customer of Eve to express this opinion as its your right to disagree. You may accuse me of whatever you please, it doesn't change what happened.

The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom.

Its quite simple Jade Constantine is my eve character who is a space anarchist ship captain and revolutionary and often kills imperialists.

At fanfest on the other hand i'm the rather charming Andrew Cruse instead who is nice to everyone, goes out to resturants and bars and enjoys the company of other eve players without calling on people to be unironically trolled to death in slurred fanfest panel proclamations.

If you continue to be confused (or indeed fascinated) by my character's ingame ideology and roleplayed beliefs in this science fiction universe I'd advise you to look up a book called Cassini Division by Ken Mcloud - its rather good.

Look at this Jade, do you see this? This is a good post from a sitting CSM member whose alliance is not friendly with ours, but can make a decision without letting previous history and poor culture assessments as well as a distinct inability to separate Mittens the Goon from Alex the person get in the way of said decision.

Mav, I applaud you speaking your mind as a new player, but there is something you need to understand.

Nobody cares about any of the things you mentioned... not the slide, not laughing publicly at the guy, none of that.

I agree with Elsebeth completely on this point and I think you are being deeply dishonest with the response you gave to that new player Ranger 1.

The situation you describe is the outlook of SA forums and an alien culture that has sought to impose itself on the community of eve online. But its a tiny fraction of the player base regardless of how much noise it makes during these threads on the forums. Most players are not Goons, don't think like goons, and don't act like goons. Despite the way the game has been portrayed by Alexander Gianturco's behaviour at Fanfest the game has not been culturally colonized to the exclusion of all else by this kind of brash sexist, hateful I guess you could say Aris Bakhtanians style outlook.

And more to the point I think that was the precise point CCP themselves were trying to make all the way through the Fanfest presentations. "We play the game hard and ruthlessly but face to face as people we're lovely!" I mean jesus christ, you could practically read that script on the teleprompters for their anchor team.

Its a good line. It harnesses the "core gaming" experience stuff their marketing VP was on about, it differentiates the game from other "soft core" theme park MMOs while still reaching out for subscribers who might have previously been put off by all the horrible behaviour and casual bullying that goes on amongst certain sections of the community.

We blow each others ships to hell every night, but there isn't a call to send people to harress a guy into suicide after you ruin his barge business. I mean how complicated is this stuff really?

Its not about me. If you want to address the issue by all means do so.

Protection from Harassment Act 1997

This Act was passed following concerns that stalking was not dealt with effectively under the existing legislation. The Act des not refer solely to stalking but also covers harassment in a wider sense. The Act states that it is unlawful to cause harassment, alarm or distress by a course of conduct and states that GÇÿA person must not pursue a course of conduct, which:

amounts to harassment of another
he knows, or ought to know, amounts to harassment of the other.GÇÖ

Criminal Justice and Public Order Act 1994
This Act defines a criminal offence of intentional harassment, which covers all forms, including sexual harassment. A person is guilty of an offence if, with intent to cause a person harassment, alarm or distress, he/she

uses threatening, abusive or insulting words or behaviour or disorderly behaviour; or
displays any writing, sign or other visible representation which is threatening, abusive or insulting, thereby causing that or another person harassment, alarm or distress.

Malicious Communications Act 1998/Telecommunications Act 1984
Under this Act it is an offence to send an indecent, offensive or threatening letter, electronic communication or other article to another person. Under section 43 of the Telecommunications Act 1984 it is a similar offence to send a telephone message which is indecent, offensive or threatening.

Both these offences are punishable with up to six months imprisonment and/or a fine.
The Malicious Communications offences are wider ranging, but under the Telecommunications offences, it is likely that the Police will use the former Act to bring a charge.

The Communications Act 2003
The Communications Act 2003 is by far the most recent Act to be passed. Section 127 states that a person is guilty of an offence if he/she

sends by means of a public electronic communications network a message or other matter that is grossly offensive or of an indecent, obscene or menacing character; or
causes any such message or matter to be so
A person is guilty of an offence if, for the purpose of causing annoyance, inconvenience or needless anxiety to another by means of a public electronic communications network, a message that he/she knows to be false,
causes such a message to be sent; or
persistently makes use of a public electronic communications network


Thats UK law on cyberbullying.

1. Alexander pursued a course of conduct that amounted to harrassment of another individual, as a former lawwyer he knows or ought to know that would be harrassment. Inebriation is not an excuse. So there is an argument that he has breached the protection from harrassment act in the uk.

2. Alexandeer used threatening and abusive language with an intent to cause harm whether in jest or not is not material. That is a breach of the criminal justice act.

3. Alexander sent a clear and threatening electronic message which is in breach of the malicious communication act.

4. Alexander sent a public commuciaction wth the purpose of causing annoyance and needless anxiety to another in breach of the communications act.


Maybe those of you trivialising this issue need to take a good look at yourselves. Cyberbullying costs lives. We are fortunate in this case that it hasnt however Eve wont be so fortunate in the future if this behaviiour is allowed to go unchallenged.

Alexander was incredibly stupid whilst drunk he made an odious statement that is clearly in breach of UK/EU law. Laws which were used on monday to sentence a twitter user for six months in prison for abusing Patrick Muamba after his collapse. In effect a student got sent down for mocking Muamba and saying he hoped he would die. That student didnt incite others to harrass anyone which is considered a more serious offence.

Suicide is an incredibly emotive issue one I would have thought the goons of all people would be sensitive to. Maybe those of you trolling on this thread need to take a look at yourselves. YOur defending the indefesible.


Alexander has said he will do the right thing and resign and I applaud him for that. It is an act of contrition that would go some way to rehabilitating him in my eyes. To try and weasel out of that action now would be reprehensible.

As far as the legal situation in Iceland is concerned they have applied for EU membership and are currently alighning their legal system to reflect EU law. CCP dont really have any choice but to investegate this and act accordingly. If they do not then they leave themselves open to litigation and or prosecution is situations like this happen and sombody stupid acts on it.

Alexander man up and do the right thing, resign.

SWANSEA, Wales -- The student who mocked Bolton midfielder Fabrice Muamba on Twitter after the player collapsed on the field during a match has been jailed for inciting racial hatred. Liam Stacey, a 21-year-old student at Swansea University, admitted to the charge last week and was jailed Tuesday for 56 days. Chief prosecutor Jim Brisbane says "we hope this case will serve as a warning to anyone who may think that comments made online are somehow beyond the law." Muamba's heart stopped beating on its own for 78 minutes after he collapsed during an FA Cup quarterfinal match against Tottenham on March 17. He remains hospitalized in intensive care.

Thats a US paper taking up the story btw.

Why don't you try to put aside your goonish clan identity for a moment and lets talk as adult players of this game. I'm not saying Alexander Gianturco should be prosecuted in real or extradited to iceland or england or whatnot. I'm not saying eve online should become a politically-correct utopia where nobody says boo to a goose. I once caused a mini scandal myself for saying rude things about Verone when I was CSM chair for heaven's sake - I'm no saint.

But I didn't use my position on stage at fanfest as a bully pulpit to call for the harrassment of a fellow gamer. I think if we were to meet face to face and share a quiet pint and talk this over you'd agree it went too far and now Gianturco needs to resign for the good of the game.

A lot of goon players in this thread seem to be turning it into a persecution complex "its just because he was a goon". It really isn't. Its simply because he had a responsibility to represent this game as an ambassador to the watching media and he flunked it badly.

I personally am happy to see Mittani continue to be allowed to play this game. But there has to be some sanction for what he did and if he's not prepared to take responsibility and do the decent thing as Alexander Gianturco and resign then he needs to be pushed out.

Eve Online now needs to send a message that certain kinds of out of game harrassment and cyber bullying need to be stamped out.

See... I don't have a horse in this race, but it's things like this are going to elicit an anti-goon sentiment:

I'll tell you one reason. In 2008 I was CSM chair and got filmed in the role at fanfest and quoted in the position in newspapers from London, New York, Paris, Amsterdam, Iceland etc. I got interviewed by the BBC and its still on record.

The following year I did a contract interview where this stuff was discovered by a background checking agency that linked my newspaper appearences to my panel as Jade Constantine the space anarchist terrorist doing an alliance panel presentation. They asked me what it was all about.

I explained Eve Online to them and being the world's first elected spaceship politican. They thought it was pretty cool and I got the contract.

This year somebody checks my background and cross references with EVE CSM and they are going to see a drunken fratboy slurring out inducements to harrassment and urging gamers to get someone to commit suicide on youtube.

And thats precisely what I mean about bringing the game into disrepute. Whether CCP come out of this well or extremely badly is going to depend on how Alexander Gianturco is punished and whether he jumps or is pushed out of the CSM chair.

Here's the reality for people. Once you step out behind that computer console and get up on stage in front of the media there are consequences for your action and behaviour and I would have thought Gianturco would have understood that with his legal background at least.

[sarcasm]I am led to believe if we keep posting he may kill himself...[/]

I think if we were to meet face to face and share a quiet pint and talk this over you'd agree it went too far and now Gianturco needs to resign for the good of the game.

I'm really happy to read the CSM's announcement Mittani will be staying! Congratulations everyone!

its written on the back of the security blanket he's clinging too really tightly with his liddle fingers.

Titans will still be nerfed no matter what The Mittani does.

The CSM published by CCP

Excerpt from page 20 of the linked CCP document-

CSM REPRESENTATIVE CONDUCT

any behavior or actions considered being a material breach of the eula or tos
by a Csm representative is grounds for immediate dismissal and permanent
exclusion from all pending and future participation in the council. There are no
exceptions, regardless of the infraction. representatives are not only expected to
uphold the social contract that all society members are held accountable to, but
should also set a behavior standard for everyone else to follow.
____

This sounds pretty clear cut to me. Unless we don't play by these rules anymore?

"immediate dismissal and permanent exclusion"

Policies are created to insure all players are treated fairly and equally. We can't
begin making exceptions to one without eliminating the rule altogether.

What kind of publicity will EVE receive if he or any future player does commit
suicide? The media will look back on this incident and see how the company
handeled it which could open them up for future liability.

Any player regardless of alliance affiliation needs to understand the gravity of
this situation outside of the context of Eve.

This is a situation that could end Eve.

bloody hell READ THE TOS.

http://community.eveonline.com/pnp/terms.asp


points 25 and 26 ....


Namely




Would it help if we could use a larger font?

'

So its OK when Alex runs to all the news outlets during incarnagate but not when people go to them over his murder through proxy by suicide threats?

In addition. Lets not forget that Alexander Gianturco played Nevil Chamberlain after the televised meeting between himself and CCP thousand dollar jeans. He returned to the player base with some vague promises and unsatisfactory words and said "there will be peace in our time."

The player base erupted in more rage and subs began to dip and because nobody was happy with Mittani's compromise (which in truth was rubbish.)

CCP only acted to save their game and begin Crucible because player unsubscription showed them a glimpse into the darkness if they ignored what they were being told by the player base.

Mittani would later ride that wave and attempt to take credit but those who were there remember he was very slow to take the cause and was reacting and following events rather than leading them.

Sure I vote that any player acting in this way should be stripped of CSM status.

Next.

acknowledged it then (thus far) has failed to follow through with the promised resignation. Thats largely why people are considering him a heel (IRL).

No, it's not. Well, not, if I am counted among the idiots (reported for flaming, btw).

I think I'll make a separate post about it, but what I want is an EVE where scamming, baiting, blobbing, ganking, trapping, and using clever tricks is still allowed, where we can have PR wars and gloat on locals about how wonderful players we are, and where there is no guaranteed safety and total opt-out of pvp. I also want an EVE where it is not acceptable behavior to point and laugh when someone is obviously RL upset about losing, to use stage time in a CCP event to humiliate and berate your rivals rather than talk about what you do well, or to flame people on the public forums, and where racist/sexist/homophobic slurs are grounds of immediate warnings and bans.

I do not see those as contradictory. I doubt most of the community does.

Congratulations to everyone on my side of the floor, this day we won a victory for some standards of ooc camaraderie and mutual respect in eve online.

hello.jpg

When in Iceland, I stumbled: my presentation was boring, I was hideously drunk, and I said something entirely regrettable. My apology upon my return was not a troll (though our in-game enemies are trying to imply it is just a calculated move); as a maniacal control freak, me getting that drunk leaves me with a foul opinion of myself and I wish I hadnGÇÖt done as I had.

I apologized personally to The Wis; There is no question that I went too far and drank too much, and ignored advice that I shouldnGÇÖt use that specific slide at all.

Well having now read his freak out session on EN24
http://www.evenews24.com/2012/03/28/leak-gsf-ceo-update-clutching-pearls-and-finger-wagging/

I have to say I was FAR too kind to this guy. He deserves the ban and everything he gets.
Spiteful footstamping he sounds like a child with its lollypop taken away.
I'm very disappointed that he made a public apology while secretly writing that vitreolic poison secretly to an audience of goons.
Good riddence to the guy.