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Paulize Dn'Injer
8
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Posted - 2011.09.10 23:18:00 -
[1] - Quote
Dodging reputation, evasion of consequence, shattering immersion, meta-gaming GÇô all these thoughts are often misdirect towards Name Changing in ignorance of Character Transfers as it exists today.
Character Transfers provide no documentation of having been transferred. You can be can be scammed, blindsided, and utterly destroyed without knowing what you hit you or why GÇô because the system is unregulated. What Name Changing intends to do is provide a regulated alternative to Character Transfers, in essence, reducing the amount of unregulated actions making EVE more secure while actually improving immersion and GÇÿadding to the tools in the sandboxGÇÖ
What are gathered here are the coalesced ideas of Name Change threads of the past; a legacy to calm logic that will rise as often as need be
Essential Features of Name Changing
- AKA (or Alias, Name History, etc.) Tab GÇô Similar to the Employment History tab itGÇÖs a record of name change permanently tied to that character
- Searchability GÇô If "Bob" changes his name to "Steve" searching GÇ£BobGÇ¥ will link to GÇ£SteveGÇ¥
- Transfer of Standings GÇô "Bob" is red to me; now that "Bob" has changed his name to "Steve" he will still be red to me. Red is red (odds are he wonGÇÖt want to cuddle)
- Fee GÇô I could care less what the amount is or whether it is ISK, PLEX, Aurum, Dollars/Euros, etc. Whatever level it is set to must be an effective deterrent to keep name changing from being a more efficient method of nefarious activity than the plentiful existing methods. Additionally, it must in part pay for itself (customer service, R&D, execution, etc.)
- Frequency GÇô A name may be changed only after x amount of time (commonly a year between renaming). If a person wants to change their name every week, odds are it isnGÇÖt for a legitimate reason
Debated Features of Name Changing
- Mass Mailing GÇô Anyone either linked to or linked by the character (think character to Character Standings, Block List, etc.) would receive a notification email. Credited to Amarr Priest
Cannot change name within X time for doing Y GÇô This was mentioned as GÇ£CanGÇÖt change a name within 48 hours of leaving a corpGÇ¥ by Faolan Fortune. [**] Cooling-off GÇô GÇ£No name changes will be completed no sooner than X days of applying for a name change.GÇ¥ Provides a window to rethink the new name and abort while denying the nefarious desire for instant results [**]Kill Rights GÇô Character must have no Kill Rights at the time of Name Change
- Case by case review GÇô Literally, GÇ£Now Bob, why do you want to change your name? LetGÇÖs look at your activity of late...GÇ¥ Undeniably a very strong tool but impractical
- Security and/or Standing and/or SP HitGÇô Some feel this is necessary
- Character Transfer GÇô Name Changes should not transfer in the event of a Character Transfer (reverting to the first name while preserving full name history) and/or no character having been transferred will ever be allowed a Name Change. This is highly divisive, but it keeps the character market level
- Real Need GÇô GÇ£"Homm3rsexsual" changing to "IkillU2and4eva" should be rejected, but if "Homm3rsexsual" changing to something similar as normal human name (like John Peterson, Cliff Johnson and such), should be approved.GÇ¥ By Gordon Colt
- One time only GÇô again, divisive, but with a strong following and inherit merit of encouraging legitimate use
- Begin with the Same Letter GÇô The new name and the old name must begin with the same letter to deter Name Changes on the basis of being targeted in fleets
- Security Rating GÇô Character must have above a specified security rating to receive a Name Change
- API GÇô ItGÇÖll be on there
In Closing
What IGÇÖve tried to do here is illustrate the considerations towards Name Changing and reassure the doubtful that EVE would be enriched rather than destroyed. In specific I hope we can agree to disagree, but in general GÇô are you with me? What more would you like added? What is insufficient? Which criteria are necessary, which arenGÇÖt? |
Paulize Dn'Injer
8
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Posted - 2011.09.10 23:19:00 -
[2] - Quote
Archived Threads
(proposal) Name Change for a Fee + Aka for Incarna (Name Change) with harsh conditions! [Proposal] Limited Paid Character Name Changes [Proposal] Changing Character Name [Proposal] Character Name Change Also Known As
Recent Comments
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote: When i tried out this game I never asked myself if there was an option to change names (my fault, I know) only to realize it later on that it was not possible. Tony 2fingers wrote:People are always defending the under handed side of EVE by claiming its "sandbox" ...so why put a penalty in place for a name change. Bagehi wrote:You want harsh? 10 [percent] loss of SP...
Whine: these new 'unordered lists' look terrible. Also you can't use the "percent" symbol or you get "There was an issue with parsing this post's BBCode" error. Great. |
Mechael
Helhest 1st Prospectors' Collective
9
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Posted - 2011.09.10 23:59:00 -
[3] - Quote
Liked. But dammit, no Aurum. I'd rather die in battle against a man who will lie to me, than for a man who will lie to me. |
Cheekything
Black Lance Executive Outcomes
21
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Posted - 2011.09.11 00:35:00 -
[4] - Quote
I'd agree for if the person owns both characters of the name to be changed and pays a fee.
So long as:
Previous Name has some kind of fault - Clan ticker from previous games, Un/intentionally rude, Breaks forums, a CCP default name like Amarr Citizen 2109332.
New Name has been owned by you for over 3-6 months.
Apart from that I see no reason why people should be changing names as:
It would bring up the subject of removing the names of all the inactive characters.
I could bring in the Starcraft 2 System when everyone can use the same name but instead have .3231 or a random set of digits after it. |
MNagy
Yo-Mama Quixotic Hegemony
4
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Posted - 2011.09.11 04:14:00 -
[5] - Quote
Allow a name change.
I like many others were in 'trial' mode when I chose to pay for the game.
I did not know I would be stuck with the name for life.
You either have a character 'red' or you don't. A name change no a character makes no difference.
If you have a character red, you most likely have notes on them as well (ie - stole from corp).
Allow it once for all paying accounts - PLEASE |
Paulize Dn'Injer
8
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Posted - 2011.09.11 04:44:00 -
[6] - Quote
Please don't neglect to click the "like" button in the upper right corner of the initial post!
Additionally, If you feel strongly about this subject, please spread the word to your corp or persons you meet in your travels.
Check in from time to time, too!
Many thanks, all of these will make a big difference in building up momentum for the cause |
Octavio Santillian
Einherjar Rising Cry Havoc.
0
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Posted - 2011.09.11 05:21:00 -
[7] - Quote
CCP has some decent reasons for not allowing name changes, but the benefits to the player community outweigh the concerns.
Simply listing the name change in the characterGÇÖs employment history would solve most concerns; though it would require players to take extra steps to research historical data in some cases (e.g. they would have to search market data for all names a character has held, etc.). CCP could probably develop more comprehensive solutions similar to those listed by the OP, but I'm not sure itGÇÖs worth the dev time.
In any case, CCP takes an alarmist stance toward name changes, while character transfers are far more problematic. IMO a name change should be required when a character is transferred. I don't necessarily want name changes limited to transfers, but they should occur during a transfer at the very least.
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Mourn
Assisted Homicide
8
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Posted - 2011.09.11 06:57:00 -
[8] - Quote
I support way of allowing name change providing provided that the new name could be traced back to old character name |
Vile rat
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
100
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Posted - 2011.09.11 10:41:00 -
[9] - Quote
but... how will I mock corpmates who buy n00bpwnr01 if they can just change the name? DO NOT LIKE. |
Jagga Spikes
Spikes Chop Shop
6
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Posted - 2011.09.11 11:54:00 -
[10] - Quote
supporting the essential features: AKKA, searchability, standings, fee, frequency. |
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evilphoenix
Gods of War LLC
0
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Posted - 2011.09.11 14:05:00 -
[11] - Quote
I support the ability to change a character's name, I do have some issues with some of the options you listed in your post.
However, CCP should determine the functionality of changing character names.
For all those who would argue that they can't track someone because of corp theft or whatever, do you realize how easy it is to create an alt on an existing account? Yes, you can require an API key. Or create a trial account and just start a new character? Doesn't take any skillpoints to be a corp thief. I can buy another character just as easy. So it seems like both of these are much easier ways to get around 'player identity' than changing the character's name.
This seems like the perfect opportunity for an infusion of money to CCP, just like the now outdated money a picture change, I would pay to change my name.
As another suggestion, you could create a new forum and require people to post there. |
Shuckstar
Hauling hogs Swine Aviation Labs
44
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Posted - 2011.09.11 17:32:00 -
[12] - Quote
Jagga Spikes wrote:supporting the essential features: AKKA, searchability, standings, fee, frequency.
Yep agreeing with this man's comment.
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Paulize Dn'Injer
9
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Posted - 2011.09.11 17:35:00 -
[13] - Quote
Vile rat wrote:but... how will I mock corpmates who buy n00bpwnr01 if they can just change the name? DO NOT LIKE. Consider the Debated Feature: "Character Transfer GÇô Name Changes should not transfer in the event of a Character Transfer (reverting to the first name while preserving full name history) and/or no character having been transferred will ever be allowed a Name Change. This is highly divisive, but it keeps the character market level." I believe this satisfies your issue |
Paulize Dn'Injer
9
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Posted - 2011.09.11 17:43:00 -
[14] - Quote
evilphoenix wrote:I support the ability to change a character's name, I do have some issues with some of the options you listed in your post... As another suggestion, you could create a new forum and require people to post there. Please do! I'm assuing you had issue with the Deabated Features section -- which is great because there is some really reactioanary stuff in there. For clarities sake I added a statement following the title, hopefully that gets my point accross.
As for your suggestion -- could you clarify? I'm envisioning a forum topic where, kinda like a newspaper, it would have postings of recently changed names. Assuing I got it right it sounds worthy of being added to the Debated Feature section. |
Kaelie Onren
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2011.09.12 11:13:00 -
[15] - Quote
Dodging reputation, evasion of consequence, meta-gaming, all bad things that come from the allowed practice of character transfers is only made worse with the addition of name changing. Until the priors are solved first, let's not introduce more problems. Do not like. |
Jint Hikaru
OffWorld Exploration Inc
4
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Posted - 2011.09.12 12:54:00 -
[16] - Quote
Ugh, Eve should never have a name change facility. Bad idea.
Dressing it up with "What Name Changing intends to do is provide a regulated alternative to Character Transfers, in essence, reducing the amount of unregulated actions making EVE more secure while actually improving immersion and blah blah blah" does not make it a good idea.
Do not support.
Jint Hikaru - Miner / Salvager / Explorer / SpaceBum In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. |
Lykouleon
Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
25
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Posted - 2011.09.12 15:44:00 -
[17] - Quote
No. Lykouleon > CYNO ME CLOSER SO I CAN HIT THEM WITH MY SWORD |
BLACK-STAR
59
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Posted - 2011.09.12 21:06:00 -
[18] - Quote
I don't think there is anything wrong with an alias change feature. Have an alias tab appear next to employment if you changed to a new alias. The only thing is you only get to once and have to wait a period of time before another edit, kind of like how you have to wait a period of time after to revamping your attributes. The old link to your character name will redirect to your new one.
This isn't going to change your standings or employment. What's the point of making a stupid name paying ISK/AUR for it? I see no problem, can be done since CCP edits names/birth history fields with their tools. [img]http://www.imgbox.de/users/S7AR/star.png[/img] |
Furb Killer
6
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Posted - 2011.09.12 21:09:00 -
[19] - Quote
Kaelie Onren wrote:Dodging reputation, evasion of consequence, meta-gaming, all bad things that come from the allowed practice of character transfers is only made worse with the addition of name changing. Until the priors are solved first, let's not introduce more problems. Do not like. With searchability on old name there is no reason why this would happen.
The very, very slight increase in ability to dodge reputation is completely negligible compared to all the gazillion ways already available. If people would actually have reasons against allowing it I could maybe be persuaded they are right, but the only ones disagreeing either have reasons that dont make any sense (like this one), or dont even bother with posting a reason. |
Paulize Dn'Injer
13
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Posted - 2011.09.13 03:00:00 -
[20] - Quote
Yes |
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Paulize Dn'Injer
18
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Posted - 2011.09.13 03:03:00 -
[21] - Quote
Jint Hikaru wrote:Ugh, Eve should never have a name change facility. Bad idea.
Dressing it up with "What Name Changing intends to do is provide a regulated alternative to Character Transfers, in essence, reducing the amount of unregulated actions making EVE more secure while actually improving immersion and blah blah blah" does not make it a good idea.
Do not support. Why. If you can't make a simple rebuttal then you don't have a point to stand on. Try again. |
Paulize Dn'Injer
18
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Posted - 2011.09.13 03:09:00 -
[22] - Quote
Kaelie Onren wrote:Dodging reputation, evasion of consequence, meta-gaming, all bad things that come from the allowed practice of character transfers is only made worse with the addition of name changing. Until the priors are solved first, let's not introduce more problems. Do not like. YouGÇÖre pretty shameless to post all high-and -mighty when you couldnGÇÖt provide a rebuttal for that in the last thread. Then again, IGÇÖd hate to suffer another of your soliloquy-quits in this threadGǪ |
FloppieTheBanjoClown
The Skunkworks
39
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Posted - 2011.09.13 03:21:00 -
[23] - Quote
I would just like to see it as part of the character transfer system. You buy the skillset and have to make a new name and portrait. This lets toons be transferred without any drama following them. |
Jagga Spikes
Spikes Chop Shop
10
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Posted - 2011.09.13 07:20:00 -
[24] - Quote
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:I would just like to see it as part of the character transfer system. You buy the skillset and have to make a new name and portrait. This lets toons be transferred without any drama following them.
actually, drama following the character is what has to be preserved. name change is simply convenience for the player and should not have (or have least possible) influence on character identity. trained character don't come out of nowhere, but they should not be set in stone, either. |
Jint Hikaru
OffWorld Exploration Inc
4
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Posted - 2011.09.13 07:48:00 -
[25] - Quote
Paulize Dn'Injer wrote:Why. If you can't make a simple rebuttal then you don't have a point to stand on. Try again.
I see, roll out the 'you cant make a rebuttle' train on anyone who does not support your idea. Well done, 3/10.
Maybe this will do it for ya....>
CCP Zymurgist said the following, in this thread
CCP Zymurgist wrote:EVE characters are built on reputation. Your name is who you are and will always be. Really the only way to "change" this would be to buy a new character and sell the old one off. All that will change is who is playing the character though as the name will always represent the character's past deeds.
Jint Hikaru - Miner / Salvager / Explorer / SpaceBum In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. |
Jagga Spikes
Spikes Chop Shop
10
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Posted - 2011.09.13 09:00:00 -
[26] - Quote
Jint Hikaru wrote:... CCP Zymurgist said the following, in this threadCCP Zymurgist wrote:EVE characters are built on reputation. Your name is who you are and will always be. Really the only way to "change" this would be to buy a new character and sell the old one off. All that will change is who is playing the character though as the name will always represent the character's past deeds.
fail. name is a word. it's a handle. it's just a part (a social pointer if you will) of what character is. changing name does not change who character is. changing name does not suddenly point to some other character.
but if suddenly someone else possess character, they become someone else, and all the reputation will mean nothing because they start acting differently. so, name stays same, but everything else is not same. it's exactly what already exists in game: character transfers.
bashing down proposal (name change) on basis that it goes against game's principle (reputation matters), while said proposal does everything to uphold the principle (akka, searchable history, standings permanence) AND having functional game mechanic (character transfers) that breaks said principle is poor form. |
Jint Hikaru
OffWorld Exploration Inc
4
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Posted - 2011.09.13 11:06:00 -
[27] - Quote
Quote:fail. name is a word. it's a handle. it's just a part (a social pointer if you will) of what character is. changing name does not change who character is.
Not fail.... a name is the character.
If I am in a system and a name i recognize comes into the system, its linked to my memories of that character and what reputation that person has with me.
If I have a name of someone who keeps trying to kill me on a Post-it on my moniter, I can 'bug-out' if I see them.
Allowing namechanges will remove that recognition from the game!
And dont suggest list of aliases in character sheet. I can't look up every person I want to look out for, every day just in case they have namechanged.
Jint Hikaru - Miner / Salvager / Explorer / SpaceBum In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. |
Jagga Spikes
Spikes Chop Shop
10
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Posted - 2011.09.13 11:46:00 -
[28] - Quote
Jint Hikaru wrote:Quote:fail. name is a word. it's a handle. it's just a part (a social pointer if you will) of what character is. changing name does not change who character is. Not fail.... a name is the character. If I am in a system and a name i recognize comes into the system, its linked to my memories of that character and what reputation that person has with me. If I have a name of someone who keeps trying to kill me on a Post-it on my moniter, I can 'bug-out' if I see them. Allowing namechanges will remove that recognition from the game! And dont suggest list of aliases in character sheet. I can't look up every person I want to look out for, every day just in case they have namechanged.
how do you know character wasn't transferred? or even, how would you know character was transferred (as any available record can be faked)? so, instead of depending on name recognition, that doesn't work (as you can't be sure that character is played by the same player), why not depending on game mechanics (standings) and/or improved awareness and tactics on your part to make yourself safer?
OP proposal includes fee (cost) and frequency (cooldown between name changes). so, you could still depend on name recognition, just with a twist now and then, which can be reduced in effect through standings. |
Meissa Anunthiel
Redshift Industrial Rooks and Kings
174
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Posted - 2011.09.13 11:47:00 -
[29] - Quote
One's name is everything. Corp thieves can be identified using that, as can reputation, as a whole. I know from entering local who people are, known pirates, etc. I really don't feel like going over history everytime I see a new name. Corp history or "AKAs" do not quite cover it.
Character transfers, tough luck, if you buy a character you're supposed to do some due diligence on that guy's history.
The only thing name changes are acceptable, to me, is typos or capitalization, and GMs already allow that. The former soon after creation, the latter pretty much anytime I believe.
So, no...
PS: this topic was discussed during CSM 3, check the minutes to hear the arguments for and against etc. Member of CSM 2, 3, 4 and 5. Vice-Chairman of CSM 6 |
Jagga Spikes
Spikes Chop Shop
10
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Posted - 2011.09.13 12:44:00 -
[30] - Quote
Meissa Anunthiel wrote:One's name is everything. Corp thieves can be identified using that, as can reputation, as a whole. I know from entering local who people are, known pirates, etc. I really don't feel like going over history everytime I see a new name. Corp history or "AKAs" do not quite cover it.
Character transfers, tough luck, if you buy a character you're supposed to do some due diligence on that guy's history.
The only thing name changes are acceptable, to me, is typos or capitalization, and GMs already allow that. The former soon after creation, the latter pretty much anytime I believe.
So, no...
PS: this topic was discussed during CSM 3, check the minutes to hear the arguments for and against etc.
"stupid" forum ate my post.
character transfers are reality. if CCP could stop them, they would. they can't.
only stupid thieves would go for name change (as proposed) instead of blank char transfer.
checking bio/history was, is and will be intel gathering of choice, with or without name change.
stop talking about some ideal EVE. talk about EVE as it is. |
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