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Ioan Talbot
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Posted - 2008.09.11 23:47:00 -
[1]
I'm quite new to the game and am curious what people think about assault frigates. I tried doing some searching but couldn't find much commentary on them. What are they good at? I've heard that when fitted properly you can run level 4 missions in them, although I imagine that takes a lot of T2 gear and good skills.
The main reason why I am asking is that it seems like a reasonable plan to skip cruisers/bships in the short run and go straight for assault frigates given that they use small size weapons just like your starting frigates and destroyers do. As it is, I'm doing OK running level 1 missions and salvaging in my destroyer and will be able to train assault ships in about a week and a half. I don't see why I should waste time training cruisers and all the skills I'd need to run them well when I can get assault ships so quickly.
Please enlighten me!
Thanks =) |
Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
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Posted - 2008.09.11 23:49:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Merin Ryskin on 11/09/2008 23:51:31
 Originally by: Ioan Talbot
What are they good at?
Reprocessing to build ships that don't suck. Assault frigates have higher mineral costs to build, so even after the loss to reprocessing inefficiency you'll still probably have enough left to build an interceptor.
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Greckor Monmouth
THE FINAL STAND
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Posted - 2008.09.11 23:52:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Greckor Monmouth on 11/09/2008 23:53:28
Lvl 4's...I dont think so. You can do lvl 3's in them though I believe.
AF's are generally viewed right now as sub-par and not worth much. However, I like them and think that any new players can learn a lot from using them.
If you are doing lvl 1's right now, then yes I think training for an AF rather than a battleship is worth it. Get yourself all the support skills and whatnot up to 4 or 5 and you set yourself up for success later. Work your way up, speccing in smaller ships, then the bigger ones later.
EDIT- dont listen to the people who immediately say, REPROCESS. AF's are something that are not the best for PvP, but are still good for PVE
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Spaztick
Canadian Imperial Armaments
EVESpace
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Posted - 2008.09.11 23:54:00 -
[4]
I like using them for ratting and doing complexes.
But seriously, more people should have some type of spacer in their sigs to show it's not part of the post.
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Hunduran
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Posted - 2008.09.11 23:56:00 -
[5]
very good merin, assault ships suck and only ppl with near perfect skills and a thing for shiny and expensive ships fly them. and even then, they are worse than a t1 cruiser. basically it would be wiser for you to train into a t1 cruiser for pvp and you pretty much have to train for a bs if you want to effectively run lvl4 missions. AF's suck right now. merin and many of our fellow players would rather use the t1 ship of the next size class rather than notice any good things about the smaller sized t2 ship.
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SoftRevolution
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Posted - 2008.09.12 00:31:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Ioan Talbot
I'm quite new to the game and am curious what people think about assault frigates. I tried doing some searching but couldn't find much commentary on them. What are they good at? I've heard that when fitted properly you can run level 4 missions in them, although I imagine that takes a lot of T2 gear and good skills.
The main reason why I am asking is that it seems like a reasonable plan to skip cruisers/bships in the short run and go straight for assault frigates given that they use small size weapons just like your starting frigates and destroyers do. As it is, I'm doing OK running level 1 missions and salvaging in my destroyer and will be able to train assault ships in about a week and a half. I don't see why I should waste time training cruisers and all the skills I'd need to run them well when I can get assault ships so quickly.
Please enlighten me!
Thanks =)
For PvE they're passable up to L3. The biggest gripe with them for this purpose is the DPS they put out. L1s and L2s they just tear a big hole in. As you'd expect really since they use frigate size weapons but have more damage bonuses which is ideal for missions with lots of frigs.
The problem basically comes with the tougher NPCs you get in a few missions (Elite cruisers etc.). You wind up taking chuffing ages to chew through the NPCs tank. Once you get in something gankier you realise your income has doubled or tripled.
You can survive in L4 missions but killing BS rats in an AF in any quantity would be an exercise in masochism.
Missile and drone cruisers will achieve a pretty similar effect on L1 and L2 missions for less training time spent on the hull and less ISK overall.
I see that you're Gallente. Although the Ishkur is one of the better assault frigs going you've also got two very good cruisers and some pretty passable battlecruisers to choose from.
The Vexor particularly is a fantastic mission boat. It's got a damage bonus to drones which the Ishk somewhat insanely hasn't. It takes medium drones too.
The Thorax is a nice cheap insurable PVP boat.
Crying about no longer being able to field a BS sized set of T2 heavies aside the Myrm is a pretty passable drone boat and the Brutix I see flown by people not on bets which is rare for a Tier 1 BC.
So... personally if I was starting a character again I'd be inclined to save myself the training time for Frigate 5.
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Ioan Talbot
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Posted - 2008.09.12 02:16:00 -
[7]
Ohh man, I didn't even notice that they required frigate 5 in addition to assault ships. That does make a pretty big difference given that it's another several days of training time.
I guess I just don't know enough about the game right now to know what I should do. I'm not in a corp yet and plan on sticking to high sec for the reasonable future, so I'm not terribly worried about PVP performance for now. I'm spec-ops so I have a lot of skills in drones so far and not too much in gunnery (I've trained mainly learning skills so far).
Vexor does look nice, and the myrm seems cool. I guess I could load up either with drones to coast on that until I get my medium turret skills up.
For mainly PVE purposes, would you suggest going for a cruiser or just straight up to a BC? I don't even have access to level 2 agents yet, so I'll have some time to train.
What do you mean by "not on bets"?
Basically, I do plan on PvPing eventually and I mainly want to get enough skills to get by and make money on PvE but not be super inefficient in skilling stuff I won't need long term. Might it even be better to just go straight to battleships?
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PEACE1974
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Posted - 2008.09.12 02:44:00 -
[8]
Edited by: PEACE1974 on 12/09/2008 02:46:11
hey m8,
to give you my honest opinion: it is totally your preference since either BC or AF will work for L3 PVE, but there are drawbacks and positives to each--
T1 ships (normal frig,cruiser,BC,BS) you can rely on insurance payouts. Always buy Platinum insurance if you use it as your main ship, and you'll save LOTS of hard-earned isk in the long run. T2 (assault frigs, interceptors, etc) ships' insurance payouts are like T1 counterparts even though they are worth a LOT more, so you will end up losing more isk that way. A counter to this counterpoint is that if you train up bigger T1 ships, their have a lot more supporting skills (medium and large modules) and therefore you might lose them a lot more in the beginning. Another huge drain of isk :(
In my personal experience, players go BIG (T1 BC, BS), then LITTLE (T2 inty, af, hac), and then BIG again (capital). The first two are interchangeable so again it is your personal preference. Once you reach L4 missions however, you will have to go big to survive. Either that or train up HAC, but I would recommend a good missioning BS at that point. You'll most likely end up training both in the long run, so the best piece of advice I can give you is do go with what you will enjoy flying the most =p
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SoftRevolution
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Posted - 2008.09.12 02:57:00 -
[9]
Edited by: SoftRevolution on 12/09/2008 03:01:14
Originally by: Ioan Talbot
Ohh man, I didn't even notice that they required frigate 5 in addition to assault ships. That does make a pretty big difference given that it's another several days of training time.
I guess I just don't know enough about the game right now to know what I should do. I'm not in a corp yet and plan on sticking to high sec for the reasonable future, so I'm not terribly worried about PVP performance for now. I'm spec-ops so I have a lot of skills in drones so far and not too much in gunnery (I've trained mainly learning skills so far).
Vexor does look nice, and the myrm seems cool. I guess I could load up either with drones to coast on that until I get my medium turret skills up.
For mainly PVE purposes, would you suggest going for a cruiser or just straight up to a BC? I don't even have access to level 2 agents yet, so I'll have some time to train.
What do you mean by "not on bets"?
Basically, I do plan on PvPing eventually and I mainly want to get enough skills to get by and make money on PvE but not be super inefficient in skilling stuff I won't need long term. Might it even be better to just go straight to battleships?
Vexor is perfectly fine for L1 and L2s. In fact it's better than a lot of the alternatives.
It's also like 4m of ship vs 32m of ship and an extra skillbook. You're not even skipping anything because you need Cruiser 3 and all of the same modules.
I'd probably go Vexor while you skill stuff up and save up ISKs.
A battleship is more skilling for large guns, reps etc. and you need all of the same skills you'd want for a BC so no time saved there.
There's a lot of skills that work on any ship. Skilling up for a decent BC fit (fitting skills, support skills, nav skills, cap skills) will give you skills you need for any ship.
Drones you'll use on far more ships than you don't (especially if you stick with Gallente... it's kind of your thing) so they're worth having and skilling up.
"On a bet" = Someone is doing something so silly you think they must be doing it because someone bet them money they wouldn't. Basically I'm saying the Brutix has it's uses.
Personally the plan I'd probably recommend is working out a short term training plan for a workable Vexor fit and then a medium term training plan for a T2 fit Myrmidon.
Skilling for T2 stuff is good because the support skills it needs you to train is all generally useful stuff.
T2 drones should be quite early in your plan. I am reliably informed that T2 Caldari drones are cheaper than Hammerhead IIs and nearly as good so consider getting that skill. Gallente T2 do the most damage and Minmatar T2 are very fast. Cap skills (Energy Management, Energy Systems Operation) are really important too, as are Mechanic, Engineering and Electronics.
Do you have EVEMON? It's a handy tool. Just make sure you actually browse all the skills under a particular group and work out which are useful rather than just doing it by item.
PVP you can kind of do in a frigate (i.e. blaster Incursus). The correct mindset for starting PVP is that each ship loss should be a lesson to learn from so with that in mind cheap lessons are the way to go at first.
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Ioan Talbot
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Posted - 2008.09.12 18:12:00 -
[10]
So what skills do I really need in order to properly fit a vexor? Does it require medium turrets or will I be able to get by for a while with small ones? Do I need to use different armor repair modules or different armor plates than I do with a frigate/destroyer? If so, do they take different skills to equip?
Thanks again, this has really been helpful.
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Elhina Novae
Destruction Reborn
CORPVS DELICTI
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Posted - 2008.09.12 18:22:00 -
[11]
AFs can run level 4 missions but it takes a while.
I have done it just for the lulz. but the lulz ended as it took an eternity to kill high tier BSs :P
------------
Originally by: Boz Well
Originally by: SurrenderMonkey
...
There's an Amarr problem?
Nothing that can't be solved by more Minmatar nerfs.
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Galan Undris
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Posted - 2008.09.12 18:37:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Ioan Talbot
So what skills do I really need in order to properly fit a vexor? Does it require medium turrets or will I be able to get by for a while with small ones? Do I need to use different armor repair modules or different armor plates than I do with a frigate/destroyer? If so, do they take different skills to equip?
Thanks again, this has really been helpful.
Drones 5 is pretty much required, but you should have that out of the box as a Gallente spec ops? The ability to field 5 light/medium drones and a few levels in gallente cruiser, drone interfacing and the basic armor tanking skills (mechanics, hull upgrades and repair systems to 4 and eventually 5) and you're set to go.
Guns are nice, but the Vexor is primarily a drone carrier, so it's pretty passable with sub-optimal gunnery. A rack of dual 150mm rails are nice if you can fit them, but it's not going to break your performance if you can't.
(PS. You might want to experiment a bit to find out if light or medium drones are better for the job in level 2s, the low tier rats usually pop very fast and light drones move a lot faster between targets.)
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Greckor Monmouth
THE FINAL STAND
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Posted - 2008.09.12 18:46:00 -
[13]
One thing you can do at low SP, is to join a mission running corp. A nice friendly one, and tag along on someone elses lvl 4 in a catalyst. Let them take aggro and you pop the smaller stuff while he/she takes out the larger stuff. When you get t2 blasters and whatnot you can actually take out a BS rat in a lvl 4 pretty fast in a catalyst.
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Cpt Branko
Surge.
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Posted - 2008.09.12 19:36:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Elhina Novae
AFs can run level 4 missions but it takes a while.
I have done it just for the lulz. but the lulz ended as it took an eternity to kill high tier BSs :P
I know a guy who did in a faction fit Wolf for the lols. Domination gyros,rigs, and all that jazz 
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Spectre3353
Gallente
The Python Cartel
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Posted - 2008.09.12 19:38:00 -
[15]
If your goal is mission running effectively, you are much better off going with the traditional route of:
Level 1's: Frigate/Destroyer
Level 2's: Cruiser
Level 3's: Battlecruiser
Level 4's: Battleship
You CAN do some of the higher level missions using an assault frigate but it will be considerably more difficult, your dps and tank will not be as sufficient and you will have wasted time on their training that you could have spent instead on the bigger ships.
If you decide that PvP is something youre interested in, come back and ask this question again and we can have a totally different discussion on why you should still stick with T1 ships :)
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My Pirate Blog: http://evenewb.blogspot.com/
My Ransom Board: http://www.pcransomboard.com/ |
SomeHardLovin
The Nietzian Way
Hydra Alliance
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Posted - 2008.09.12 19:41:00 -
[16]
Speaking from a life in 0.0 space..
AF's are fun in packs. If you can get a pack of AFs along with a couple of Electronic Warfare frigates you're laughing. With the speed nerf coming, AFs will also be faster than they currently are.. so therefor even more fun.
Tank on your average AF can be monsterous. I can orbit a 1.5mill battleship rat (or 3) forever, slowly chewing down its armor/shield. They just can't kill you.. the problem is your firepower.. even with T2 weapons skills.. is slow.. so killing big stuff alone takes too much time.
For ratting/mission running you are WAY better off training Battlecruisers and then getting a Raven cruise missile ship.
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* The opinions expressed are mine and do not necessarily represent those of my corporation or alliance. |
RuleoftheBone
Minmatar
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.09.13 00:45:00 -
[17]
Edited by: RuleoftheBone on 13/09/2008 00:47:18
Originally by: Ioan Talbot
Ohh man, I didn't even notice that they required frigate 5 in addition to assault ships. That does make a pretty big difference given that it's another several days of training time.
Basically, I do plan on PvPing eventually and I mainly want to get enough skills to get by and make money on PvE but not be super inefficient in skilling stuff I won't need long term. Might it even be better to just go straight to battleships?
Frigate V=Assault Frigates+Interceptors
AF=Rolling through L1-L3 missions without problems. Anyone who says you need a cruiser or BC/BS is full of crap. A well-skilled AF can utterly blaze virtually all L3's pretty quickly (ok...so maybe it takes an extra minute to drop a BC rat...are you really in that much of a hurry??  ).
Inty=Valuable (if well flown and well-skilled) for fighting actual players.
BS=Bigger is *usually* not better.
The support skills you train in order to fit your frigates, AF's and Interceptor's will make eventual training into bigger stuff that much easier (hint: Engineering, Electronics, Mechanic, Weapons-related) especially when it comes to fitting properly.
YMMV.
Have fun!
"Lead Me..Follow Me..Or get the **** out of my way"
General George Patton USA
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Zarnak Wulf
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Posted - 2008.09.13 00:55:00 -
[18]
Currently: Not worth it unless your masochistic.
Future: They're getting a speed boost. Most other things are getting a speed nerf. And webs are getting a nerf as well. For a while AF where killing HACs on Sisi. If this is the final form, then you will see them alot more. If not...depends...
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Dr Sheepbringer
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Posted - 2008.09.13 07:25:00 -
[19]
I like the AF's and in packs they can deal a nice a amount of firepower for a frigate, but...due to them being so slow they aren't really "frigates" they are more like nerfed cruisers. With the nerf coming...that might change.
Nothing beats flying a frig with 5 high slots filled with weapons 
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BiggestT
Caldari
Space Oddysey
Pupule 'Ohana
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Posted - 2008.09.13 09:24:00 -
[20]
AF's are actually excellent killmail whor*s, they often get final blows and often get pod kill mails, so if your looking at boosting ur stats on a killboard by all means fly one :D
However in smaller gangs their not excactly useful..
Eve tax back!
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Tascaithos
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Posted - 2008.09.13 09:47:00 -
[21]
In my opinion AFs are optimal for level 2's. Cruisers have too big guns to hit all the little critters, while destys are too fragile. AFs can breeze right through them though, and can do level 3's too if you want, though heavier ship classes will do a better & faster job with those...
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