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Destable
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Posted - 2004.06.16 23:47:00 -
[61]
 Originally by: Deveraux
if that is truly your belief Playboy Enterprises, perhaps I should have joined your corp a long time ago, done lots of mining for you guys, then quit after 8 months so I could get my 2 billion isk from you.
Not a sarcastic offer here at all Deveraux. If you, or any other experienced pilot comes to work for me for 8 months, and mines for the corp just 1 8hr day per week, I'll gladly give them 2bil isk at the end.
Near as I can figure, the corp will still have made 800mil from that deal.
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Valmarc
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Posted - 2004.06.17 00:10:00 -
[62]
An Example of why former Carbide members have grievances.
I was the the CEO of a very professional mining corporation "Darkmatter Inc".
Our 15 members joined up with Carbide and worked with Carbide for a number of months.
We understood that if we worked with the corporation then the corporation would supply the items/equipment that we required.
Carbide ran a mining drive/ competition where in the darkmatter miners operated for a solid weeks mining ( including a number of carbide UK miners) we supplied a massive amount of minerals and not one of us asked anything from carbide. One of our members was only in a cruiser but with 1st class mining skills and equipment mined a major percentage of the minerals and wasnĘt ever offered a battleship we had to force carbide to supply him with one which was provided under some protest as numerous battleships had been lost due to people hunting NPC battleships the people that lost these ships had no part in or helped with the mining that provided the minerals to replace the ships they had lost.
The only people that profited from carbides operations where those at a high level, the basic members/miners/hunters got nothing.
We (darkmatter inc) left carbide taking nothing with us and asking for nothing but was slated as thieves when we left even though we took nothing and even reimbursed carbide with isk for items that one of our members had sold as a trader working for carbide.
The CEO's and Directors of carbide where only interested in furthering there corporations aims and wealth with no regard for there members which is why we as part of crytek inc. are taking this action.
Valmarc.
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Deveraux
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Posted - 2004.06.17 00:21:00 -
[63]
The Coalition of Deklein as of two hours ago has declared war on Carbide Industries. A corporation that has taken no hostile action against them in the past.
This thread is now pointless, as it is obvious the ones in COD replying to it are nothing but warmongering thieves. |
Znaei
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Posted - 2004.06.17 00:37:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Deveraux
The Coalition of Deklein as of two hours ago has declared war on Carbide Industries. A corporation that has taken no hostile action against them in the past.
This thread is now pointless, as it is obvious the ones in COD replying to it are nothing but warmongering thieves.
Ehh, what are you smoking Dev?
2 hours ago you posted this on the CoD forums and were promptly answered. Where in this text does it say CoD is declaring war on Carbide??
clagnuts> im drunk just come back from pirates night in spain , wtf i thought it was some eve guys getting together for a drink , turned out to be a feken real pirates show , doh |
Deveraux
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Posted - 2004.06.17 02:03:00 -
[65]
You stated that you are with crytek on this. Crytek has declared war on us. Unless the generally accepted rules of alliance wars have changed that means that COD has declared war on us.
Unless you are saying that we are free to enter your territory to attack crytek without having to fight COD as well?
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Znaei
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Posted - 2004.06.17 02:09:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Deveraux
You stated that you are with crytek on this. Crytek has declared war on us. Unless the generally accepted rules of alliance wars have changed that means that COD has declared war on us.
Unless you are saying that we are free to enter your territory to attack crytek without having to fight COD as well?
No, What I said is, that this is between Crytek and Carbide. If you would be shot at inside Deklein borders, it would be because you are trespassing. Please dont try to twist my words around on the Eve-O forums, my reply was pretty simple.
clagnuts> im drunk just come back from pirates night in spain , wtf i thought it was some eve guys getting together for a drink , turned out to be a feken real pirates show , doh |
Deveraux
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Posted - 2004.06.17 02:46:00 -
[67]
If you can't see that you giving them a safe place to recoup losses away from the battle, and defending them from us so that we can never take the fight to them without attacking COD first.....then there is just no point in continuing this conversation.
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Notferr
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Posted - 2004.06.17 03:58:00 -
[68]
Edited by: Notferr on 17/06/2004 04:26:47
Deveraux,
Already my head hurts...
We are not declaring war on you, nor have we. You are not allowed in Dek, as it, and all of the North are a warzone. No one, outside of NAST and NCA, and selected others are.
Is there a lack of clarity here?
At Crytek's request, this is a Crytek matter. Please stop trying to drag Deklein into this.
We have been more than fair with you in the past, so I take offense at the 'warmongering thieves' comment.
Please retract it.
- N -
- N -
Cowboy - Celestial Apocalypse
Now hear this, I am selling clues on market in gehi.
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Notferr
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Posted - 2004.06.17 04:00:00 -
[69]
Damnit. I wish I had read Z's post. He said it better than anyone else could have.
Note: I am refraing from turning into a flame monkey here. Dev, please do the same.
- N -
Cowboy - Celestial Apocalypse
Now hear this, I am selling clues on market in gehi.
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Notferr
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Posted - 2004.06.17 04:01:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Deveraux
If you can't see that you giving them a safe place to recoup losses away from the battle, and defending them from us so that we can never take the fight to them without attacking COD first.....then there is just no point in continuing this conversation.
WTH? Are you declaring war on Deklein?
- N -
Cowboy - Celestial Apocalypse
Now hear this, I am selling clues on market in gehi.
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Lucio
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Posted - 2004.06.17 07:04:00 -
[71]
This ultimately boils down to the issue that within a socialist corporation, how much does a member generate purely off their own back and how much did they generate with corporation help?
It is, I think you'll find, an issue that's virtually impossible to seperate within a month or two of a member joining a socialist corporation unless particuluarly merticulous records are kept.
Going to war over a percieved imbalance in the distrubution of resources is just plain silly, it's all down to perception of worth rather than any concrete figures, if the Crytek members can present some concrete figures of ore that they've ACTUALLY mined, less the EXACT and SUBSTIANTED figures of what they used from corporation assests, less a fair labour figure of any Carbide members that mined alongside them, then I for one would be happy to take the case to Latta who will undoubtedly deduct the costs of the BPO's, divided by the active memberbase at the time of course, from the figure as a Capital expendature.
Oh and please, I don't want to see "approximations" from any helpful players off this board, they don't prove anything, only the actual fiscal records of the time would be of any use.
***********************************************
Elder of Building, Mining & W.E.N.T.B.D.
*********************************************** |
Dray
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Posted - 2004.06.17 07:47:00 -
[72]
i started reading this thread by mistake, compulsive reading nonetheless,
as a neutral i cant see how any claims of compensation can be justified, unless theres proof of broken promises, and how the f*ck do u accidentally self destruct a battleship 
and even if there was proof of broken promises, demanding two tier 2 bs bpo's, i mean come on
but if thats so carbide can expect my application 
hehehehehe 2 bs bpo's this has made my morning
I picked up this ace book today everyone rates it as a must buy for the budding military genius, tho ive decided to rename it as "Sun Tzu's art of the bloody obvious" |
DK Metz
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Posted - 2004.06.17 09:06:00 -
[73]
Edited by: DK Metz on 17/06/2004 09:08:49
After i read all those post as an ex member of carbide it seem im entitles to post :)
the fact that we got all we needed when we were in carbide cant be denied. i got all i ever needed, maybe thats why it got borring i never had to work for my stuff i got spoiled.... however i also remember that when i lost the apoc after castor i saved 2 other BS from certain death this including Latta if i had warped out the other BS`S would have been killed, so i choosed to sacrifice my bs OFCAUSE.... NOW after i lost the apoc under these Curcomstances i were FLAMED and asked to mine myself a new apoc... Helen told me this and i went to mine a new one... it took me 2 days sooooo i diddent get a new one... During the FA ops where we mined mega for carbide i lost 5 thoraxes as we did the new mining style wich proved to own BUT costed us a few thoraxes.... but as we were 3 menn mining 2 weeks of pura mega and earned the corp 120.000 units of megacyte i should say those thoraxes were paid... hmmmmm so i dont get that one!!! ANYWAY meet u on the batllefield gonna be fun for both sides....
/emote im a poor lonesome cowboy riding an apoc with style.... now seek vengange with my bad spelling ENCRYPT THAT ONE
see the fun in all this and engage, why wait ?
________________________________
Radio for YOU
Carbide industries Elder
Gank squad alpha |
DK Metz
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Posted - 2004.06.17 09:09:00 -
[74]
Edited by: DK Metz on 17/06/2004 09:10:47
this was btw when mega costed 12.000 a piece so all in all 1440000000 isk PLUS the exstra from morphite and whatever :)
________________________________
Radio for YOU
Carbide industries Elder
Gank squad alpha |
TGIF
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Posted - 2004.06.17 10:06:00 -
[75]
Carbine Industries, what alliance are they part of?
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Absinthe Fueled |
Limpchimp
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Posted - 2004.06.17 10:25:00 -
[76]
I am not concerned with the issues between these corps, I just have something to say on the point
How many people here have a job in R/L.
ok
now say you spent 20 years working for that company and with no warning you quit and moved to another company. Would you then expect your new employer to go back to the previous employer to offer you severance.
No, you would not.
but if you were made redundant you then expect severance, yes you would.
I did business Law in R/L at uni and I can tell you one thing, if you leave a business of your own free will, all they are obliged to do is offer you the chance to stay employed by whatever means they feel necessary. Be it promotion or benefits. If an employee quits for no given reason then the original company is not obliged or required to actually give them anything at all.
As this is the case why should this be any different in the world of EVE. we all become employed by someone for a reason, be it miner, fighter whatever. and should that position is not needed anymore then severance would be paid to the people involved.
If you quit from a business all you are entitled to do is take the choice to either stay or leave. Not demand a payment at a later date, that in itself is laughable and if taken in R/L no solicitor or court would ever take that kind of claim on.
Now as I said I have no issue with the people involved, I am not backing one party or the other. All I am doing is stating a fact that is also common sense.
I hope you lot sort this out
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memex
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Posted - 2004.06.17 14:22:00 -
[77]
My 2 cents is that the tools for running the corporation suck. Since Security is always the top priority for any corp one work around is to put all of the BPO's in one account. This is what Carbide did as well as what other corporations sensibly do. Also there are no transaction logs of the hangers, so it is difficult to see how much a member contributes vs is sustained by the corp.
These problems (which are soon to be rectified in Shiva) contributed to this Hatfield vs McCoy affair.
So one guy has all the BPO's, for security reasons like I said above, he is pretty much going to win any debate about the corporation. So in that situation where you have lost control of your money ( ie put it in someone elses hands), you cant just wait around in the corporation for things to be resolved when the whole Corporation decides to put it on the agenda. You are then losing control of your time and your money.
Please make no mistake this is a divorce and should be mediated to a satisfactory conclusion.
Personally, I dont see why if Carbide is rolling along well without the people that left they cant return/recompense a small fraction of the money that was entrusted to them, is it the principle or is it too damaging to operations?
To me if they didnt make a signifigant contribution Carbide shouldnt really fear a war with them since they would be slackers to play for 8 mos and not have made a contribution. If the Crytek players DID make a signifigant contribution, and say they feel like they want some of "their" assets back, Carbide has the right to refuse.
You excercised that right and now in Crytek's point of view they have the right to extract damages, Quite literally in declaring war.
PS why are all of dev's posts edited?
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RDA Appreciation Society |
Xeserox
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Posted - 2004.06.17 15:42:00 -
[78]
fear is something most of us in carbide aren't holding deep within our hearts right now at this whole "divorce" as you put it memex. It is Hurt thatsomeoen us are feeling since, some of us "higher ups" blamed for cheating these guys out of things were out there mining as well.
You see, to help sufice to their woe as me feel pitty for me attitude... they didn't say the other side of that mining competition, that initailly tore a huge rift between Ex carbuide members and current Carbide members. It was EU vs. US in mining. They left out, that though they were out mining the more PvP oriented US timezones... the US people were mining just as hard as well. They also leave out all teh internal problems that were going on during that mining op such as one of the haulers Stealing the ore and things like that.
Metz leaves out during his 3 ninja miners thing he did in FA.... FA was being attacked By FE and most of Carbide was either aiding in that Effort Or in empire space mining bulk minerals.
They also forget, that when this whole thing was going down, i was on their side, trying to get things right between them in teh rest of carbide, only now to be treated as if i did nothing to help them out in carbide. hence the hurt... and the big hurt, because from people that were there when they were first forming together, the words and the vileness they spoke of with my name..... Most of them don't understand that i have eyes adn ears all about this universe.
Yeah i'm teh quiethelpful, american that tries to make sure everyone is happy... only to be verbally bashed behind my own back.
The rest of these Ex Carbidemembers still need to speak up about how they want everything.. Not just Silk, Mossy, Metz, and Valmarc. There were many more of you than just that.
Like i said before.. i don't know whats going to happen to me or them on the battlefield... the is no use in trying to smack talk anyone as we are all very talented players in this game. And i will say there are no "alliance" boundaries for me. If they Flee to Deklein, i will be there waiting for them. And if anyone From CoD wishes to Engage me, then so be it...
They wanted war.... i plan on bringing war. As simple as that.
Xeserox
-Free Lance Frigate Pilot |
TGIF
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Posted - 2004.06.17 15:43:00 -
[79]
So if i get it right Carbine Industries is fountain?
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Absinthe Fueled |
Sgt Drill
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Posted - 2004.06.17 16:13:00 -
[80]
Revolt with it's (ex)-member's is staying neutral and have no demands at the moment.
So good luck to both sides, and must it bring a lot of joy and hours of fun. I can see that both sides are having a lot of fun allready posting nice stuff in here.
And no futher comment's to this issues.
Blessings from Drill.
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AlphA13
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Posted - 2004.06.17 16:55:00 -
[81]
so buisness law...... mhh if u work for a company.. and u dont get paid and trust the company by spending all time without getting paid ... u are stupid.. but this is a game u trust a company u worked hard for.... hey this game is not only profit u have to have fun... guy get the sense....
but if u are f***** by a person/ company its ur right to be angry and the other side has to stand his man( dont know how to translat that )
In two days tomorrow will be yesterday |
Cpt Pugwash
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Posted - 2004.06.17 19:03:00 -
[82]
Originally by: PaulAtreides
Edited by: PaulAtreides on 16/06/2004 10:15:16
Originally by: Commander Talon
This matter is between Carbide and its EX members ONLY.
I donĘt think it is, Mr. Talon.
Originally perhaps it was so, but injustice can only go on for so long...and Justice will now be had, either in the correct amount of compensation or Carbide's timely destruction.
As an Alliance, we have member corps with individual members in those corps. It is an alliance's role to look after it members, whether it is the members corps or the individual members.
While we are at war with PA, you will probably find that we will not be joining Crytek, in their empire war sactioned indevour, but rest assured that you are high on our KOS list.
Originally by: Commander Talon
Crytek having a few ex pirates must of thought they could easily extort money and blueprints from Carbide Industries with a threat of War.
Yes, you said it: ex pirates
Originally by: Commander Talon
Your greed will lead to your own destruction Crytek.
I see only one greedy party here. We have all the minerals we could need here. What we are after, is justice.
Have a nice day! 
I will make this clear now, many members of LMM have some old scores to settle with Playboy and I personally have a recent score following their accusations against my honour.
I have no wish to engage COD units they have been great support against PA but if PB get involved against Carbide then LMM will support their friends also.
Pugwash Cpt
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Kelly O'Connor
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Posted - 2004.06.17 19:27:00 -
[83]
As a neutral party, may I just add my opinions from this thread?
Firstly, latta's post
"So resigning of your own accord with 2 corp sponsored battleships is acceptable restitution? Also having Standard implants acquired using an interest free loan from the corp is acceptable severance?
I should think so"
I found this disturbing, from what I can gather the ex CI members could have looted a lot more of the corps assets, rather then quietly departing.
As for the log, maximus seems like an *******, but latta was very defensive.
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Silk 1972
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Posted - 2004.06.17 20:13:00 -
[84]
Pugwash.
I Have no idea why u brought your problems with Playboy in this thread.
But if you attack Playboy you attack Crytek. Infact if you attack any of our allies u attack Crytek.
Before any of you flamers start shouting that were in CoD and trying to warmonger i said CRYTEK.
We stand by all our allies and will sacrifice everything to protect them all..... so either bring it on or STFU.
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Tenashi
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Posted - 2004.06.17 20:43:00 -
[85]
so much text..yikes...
from what i`ve read(what ever is true beats me) i can only make this out:
u leave a corp without some sort agreement about compensation = u wave it goodbye
demanding stuff after several weeks is just plain stupid as u left along time ago and waved it byebye when leaving without compensation agreement
threatning with war befor an serious discussion is started is just lame, i wouldn`t have stayed in that channel in the first place
what ever happend in between, no one knows then involved parties but the abouve is what i make of it
Everlasting Vendetta - Search |
Senneck
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Posted - 2004.06.17 20:52:00 -
[86]
Originally by: Kelly O'Connor
As a neutral party, may I just add my opinions from this thread?
Firstly, latta's post
"So resigning of your own accord with 2 corp sponsored battleships is acceptable restitution? Also having Standard implants acquired using an interest free loan from the corp is acceptable severance?
I should think so"
I found this disturbing, from what I can gather the ex CI members could have looted a lot more of the corps assets, rather then quietly departing.
As for the log, maximus seems like an *******, but latta was very defensive.
Kelly, this conflict is complicated and arguing about events 3-4 months old doesn't help. Selective memory kicked in long ago for everyone. I can't follow it and I was there.
Maximus was cool, and it was funny that they got to Latta so easily. Fine roleplaying, but maybe a little cheap to use an alt to do it. Anyway, that convo wasn't for resolving anything. Latta was defensive because the complaints and threats werent new. It was obvious what was going down.
Yes they sure could have looted hangars and didn't. Something all parties know and Carbide respects. The point there was that they portrayed themselves as being used up and thrown on teh streets by greedy ebay horing execs. Latta and others were countering by reminding them that they left completely of their own choice. On friendly or neutral relations. With wallets and stuff that was better than the average Carbide member had. Which they were entitled to. Should they have gotten more when they split off? Maybe, but they didn't ask then. They waited weeks and started with diplomacy pretty much like that convo. |
Silk 1972
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Posted - 2004.06.17 21:35:00 -
[87]
Maximus is not an alt guys. he is a full time player. he is very passionate about what he stands up for and we support him all the way.
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Silk 1972
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Posted - 2004.06.17 21:46:00 -
[88]
Also yes we could have emptied hangers etc.... but to be honest id rather quit eve than be flagged as a hanger thief.
I class hanger thiefs as something between a rapist or somthing u scrape off your shoe when standing in a pile of dogs**t. The lowest of the lowest.
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scorchio
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Posted - 2004.06.17 22:38:00 -
[89]
as far as i can gather there really doesnt seem to be a legitimate reason for this war and it seems as if there r alterior motives. the guys who left and are now complaining do not really have a leg to stand on. u could have sorted this when u left the corp instead of dragging an alliance into it on your behalf. as for cryteks reason for their actions it sure as hell beats me, maybe the motivation of a few bs blueprints is enough. a peaceful solution would be prefered, but seems to be a distant reality. why on earth CoD r protecting these extortionists is completely beyond me.
as pug mentioned... i for one will welcome the oppertunity to take on playboy as i have an old score to settle and stating a declartion of war against a friend of lmm seems like the perfect chance to do so. u guys probably wont remember me, but i sure as hell remember u and the hassle u gave me and my corp m8's. i will look forwards to seeng PE soon.
good luck carbide. hope it all goes well for u guys.
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Notferr
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Posted - 2004.06.17 22:52:00 -
[90]
aarrrhhhhggggg....
Just lock the damn thread.... This is pointless and 99% of it is happening outside of the forums.
Considering the stuff that has gotten my threads locked for trolling, this has got to be pushing the line.
People not directly involved, like myself, are being drunk (slip of the tounge?) into this.
Kill this thread before it starts attacking women and children.
- N -
Cowboy - Celestial Apocalypse
Now hear this, I am selling clues on market in gehi.
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