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Andgeo
Celestial Argonauts
HELL4S
0
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Posted - 2012.03.27 11:43:00 -
[1] - Quote
Hi, im a big fan of EVE Online and very impressed with the work and all the new features you introduce every Year!!!
To cut things short, my last favourite Space/Simulator game was the Freespace Saga especially Freespace 2,
one of the best tactics in Freespace ,which lacks in all other games and will make Eve Online very different and even more interesting to mostly new players is to be able to battle High Skilled players in their Battleships or Capitals with just a simple frigate!!!
To do this (since turrets are introduced and missile launchers in the future) i propose that
Sub System Targeting be introduced. By doing this a small frigate fighter will be able to not only play a small role it currently has, but also be usefull in Major battles by knocking out different modules on bigger sizes ships turning the battle without the effect of bigger size fleet or bigger guns fleet almost always wins, but the most strategic approach will win.
Think of a Frigate taking out the 1/8 guns of a Battleship, or its jump Drive capability, or the warp drive capability, or any other subsystem!!!
This is what made Freespace 2 a Great Game,
And will help with bigger market activity for the repair of new installment of these destroyed or damaged subsystem components.
Keep up the good work |
DaRiKavus
Expendable Asset's
14
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Posted - 2012.03.27 11:55:00 -
[2] - Quote
I have heard this "idea" before, Homeworld 2 was quoted as the inspiration for this (searches cupboard for that game to re-install)
Whilst an exciting and fun idea in theory, it really does not work and would create a huge inbalance in the game.
Simply search "sucky ideas for eve" to find a more structured argument of why this wouldnt work.
Chin up
Darik |
Geoscape
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
16
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Posted - 2012.03.27 12:03:00 -
[3] - Quote
DaRiKavus wrote:
Whilst an exciting and fun idea in theory, it really does not work and would create a huge inbalance in the game.
I find it rather odd that you would dismiss subsystem targeting without even discussing how it would be implemented.
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Bouh Revetoile
The Rough Riders
Ares Protectiva
3
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Posted - 2012.03.27 12:24:00 -
[4] - Quote
DaRiKavus wrote:
Simply search "sucky ideas for eve" to find a more structured argument of why this wouldnt work.
No results found for this search except this post. You would be kind to argument or redirect properly to the argumentation.
The game "Nexus: The Jupiter Incident" use such mechanic. I think it would necessarily be unbalanced, but the game would be another game. "Nexus" have a pause system allowing to take time to lock the system you want and send your orders ; that would be very difficult to do in EVE without a pause, but that may balance the feature.
In "Nexus ...", only the smallest and most accurate weapons are able to hit modules, and only external ones can be targeted. Drone are able to do it though and you can send a marine squad to sabotage the ennemy ship.
Damn you OP for remembering me this game ! It's so awesome ! I will have to play it again now ! :-( |
Noisrevbus
109
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Posted - 2012.03.27 12:24:00 -
[5] - Quote
Geoscape wrote:DaRiKavus wrote:
Whilst an exciting and fun idea in theory, it really does not work and would create a huge inbalance in the game.
I find it rather odd that you would dismiss subsystem targeting without even discussing how it would be implemented.
Well, he is insinuating it, but ...
Lasting damage from a smaller contributor like that will just further enable a large crowd to more easily micro and dismantle a smaller crowd. In most of the meta in the game it really has no place, small ships will not make a lasting contribution in that way to a large evensided fight or smaller skirmish, with fleet-level micro.
You should remember that numbers is a resource in EVE, and a very powerful resource to that. Allowing you to throw away numbers for lasting implications will have it's highest impact when you have numbers to throw away. In the meta of EVE that is detrimental to the game - we already have enough mechanics that discourages people to fight against numerical odds. We already have trends of entities growing larger and skirmishes growing few and far between. In short, it affect lopsided much more than evensided.
Also, keep in mind that many ships in EVE are very specialized, and being able to easily and lastingly effect that side of those ships will have a massive impact even if you simply target a single module. What modules can be targetted? It's a balance-perspective nightmare.
Small ships already have crippling functionality in EVE (rush tackle with scrams, for example); though the balance of their power to the scale and engagability of the game rest on their effect disappearing when the ship is destroyed or pushed away. Lasting damage to a module or group of modules will only result in there being less appeal to go out there and fight - and as mentioned, we already have negative trends of finding action.
All this is very abstract, i know. |
Roime
Shiva Furnace
337
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Posted - 2012.03.27 12:32:00 -
[6] - Quote
Something like Electronic Counter Measures, Energy Neutralizers, Remote Sensor Damping perhaps?
I think Inferno will buff Electronic Attack Frigates, but check them out, they might already do exactly what you want. They are quite rarely used these days because of not being very cost-effective and overshadowed by other ships, but I think the idea is the same.
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Electronic_Attack_Ship
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DaRiKavus
Expendable Asset's
14
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Posted - 2012.03.27 12:36:00 -
[7] - Quote
Ok I will break it down into its simpliest terms.
If you want a game where an Interceptor and Arty Thrasher can take out a BS, or at the very least disable its ability to apply ANY dps then you are playing the wrong game.
A BS has large guns that will not track a fast moving frig flown correctly.
Is this not already a balance ?
A frig (typically) does not have the ability to solo a BS.
The idea you propose makes that possible.
Hence it sucks.
Questions ??? |
Andgeo
Celestial Argonauts
HELL4S
0
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Posted - 2012.03.27 13:06:00 -
[8] - Quote
Firstly i didnt say that whatever i mentioned, is what must be done, im not a game developer, its up to game developers to find the right equation to the problem and balance it out!!!
I basically announced one of many basic ideas i thought would make the game more interesting and closer to real life effects!!!
I havent tried it, but im pretty sure a Battleship can fit Small turret guns instead of having all 8/8 for Large Turrets??? Its up to the Operation, the opponents and many other factors that fittings are used it all comes down to adaptation of the battlefield!!!
The game might even introduce +2 High Slots for that specific reason (unlikely but its a quick think solution)..... as i said before, i propose an idea not a solution!!! |
DaRiKavus
Expendable Asset's
14
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Posted - 2012.03.27 13:14:00 -
[9] - Quote
Andgeo wrote:Firstly i didnt say that whatever i mentioned, is what must be done, im not a game developer, its up to game developers to find the right equation to the problem and balance it out!!!
I basically announced one of many basic ideas i thought would make the game more interesting and closer to real life effects!!!
I havent tried it, but im pretty sure a Battleship can fit Small turret guns instead of having all 8/8 for Large Turrets??? Its up to the Operation, the opponents and many other factors that fittings are used it all comes down to adaptation of the battlefield!!!
The game might even introduce +2 High Slots for that specific reason (unlikely but its a quick think solution)..... as i said before, i propose an idea not a solution!!!
Suggesting you put away your shovel.
The basic idea you had is not your idea, it is a dynamic taken from a totally seperate game.
As for fitting small turrets to a BS............where do I start on that "basic idea"
Darik |
Andgeo
Celestial Argonauts
HELL4S
0
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Posted - 2012.03.27 13:33:00 -
[10] - Quote
Bouh Revetoile wrote:DaRiKavus wrote:
Simply search "sucky ideas for eve" to find a more structured argument of why this wouldnt work.
No results found for this search except this post. You would be kind to argument or redirect properly to the argumentation. The game "Nexus: The Jupiter Incident" use such mechanic. I think it would necessarily be unbalanced, but the game would be another game. "Nexus" have a pause system allowing to take time to lock the system you want and send your orders ; that would be very difficult to do in EVE without a pause, but that may balance the feature. In "Nexus ...", only the smallest and most accurate weapons are able to hit modules, and only external ones can be targeted. Drone are able to do it though and you can send a marine squad to sabotage the ennemy ship. Damn you OP for remembering me this game ! It's so awesome ! I will have to play it again now ! :-(
I guess a pause will not be nesesery , instead when a frigate locks on to a BS it takes about 3-10s for Ship Locking time
when locking up to a sub system which is 1/50 of the ships mass of course it will take 20 times more time, so imagine
a 3-10 second delay for the initial lock + an extra 30-90 sec full subsystem scan + TAB (1-5 sec) to cycle through the prefered subsystem... or to make it even more difficult, the subsystem targeting can only be implemented with a subsystem scanner module |
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Andgeo
Celestial Argonauts
HELL4S
0
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Posted - 2012.03.27 13:34:00 -
[11] - Quote
Bouh Revetoile wrote:DaRiKavus wrote:
Simply search "sucky ideas for eve" to find a more structured argument of why this wouldnt work.
No results found for this search except this post. You would be kind to argument or redirect properly to the argumentation. The game "Nexus: The Jupiter Incident" use such mechanic. I think it would necessarily be unbalanced, but the game would be another game. "Nexus" have a pause system allowing to take time to lock the system you want and send your orders ; that would be very difficult to do in EVE without a pause, but that may balance the feature. In "Nexus ...", only the smallest and most accurate weapons are able to hit modules, and only external ones can be targeted. Drone are able to do it though and you can send a marine squad to sabotage the ennemy ship. Damn you OP for remembering me this game ! It's so awesome ! I will have to play it again now ! :-(
I guess a pause will not be nesesery , instead when a frigate locks on to a BS it takes about 3-10s for Ship Locking time
when locking up to a sub system which is 1/50 of the ships mass of course it will take 20 times more time, so imagine
a 3-10 second delay for the initial lock + an extra 30-90 sec full subsystem scan + TAB (1-5 sec) to cycle through the prefered subsystem... or to make it even more difficult, the subsystem targeting can only be implemented with a subsystem scanner module |
Andgeo
Celestial Argonauts
HELL4S
0
|
Posted - 2012.03.27 13:38:00 -
[12] - Quote
DaRiKavus wrote:Andgeo wrote:Firstly i didnt say that whatever i mentioned, is what must be done, im not a game developer, its up to game developers to find the right equation to the problem and balance it out!!!
I basically announced one of many basic ideas i thought would make the game more interesting and closer to real life effects!!!
I havent tried it, but im pretty sure a Battleship can fit Small turret guns instead of having all 8/8 for Large Turrets??? Its up to the Operation, the opponents and many other factors that fittings are used it all comes down to adaptation of the battlefield!!!
The game might even introduce +2 High Slots for that specific reason (unlikely but its a quick think solution)..... as i said before, i propose an idea not a solution!!! Suggesting you put away your shovel. The basic idea you had is not your idea, it is a dynamic taken from a totally seperate game. As for fitting small turrets to a BS............where do I start on that "basic idea" Darik
Im not claiming it as my idea, but as an Idea!!! Im not looking for any credit or fame!!! Just to make thngs more interesting, adding an extra strategic challenge to a battle!!! |
DaRiKavus
Expendable Asset's
14
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Posted - 2012.03.27 14:07:00 -
[13] - Quote
For the sake of the internet please lock this thread. |
notha atfast
Jabba Industries INC.
Punkz 'n Monkeys
0
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Posted - 2012.03.27 14:46:00 -
[14] - Quote
So you really want "X-Wing vs Tie Fighter" attack subsystems abilities where the X-Wing would shoot a star destroyers guns while flying under the guns?
But you can do that quicker than shooting the guns with the correct mix of ECM and damping mods. You don't even have to target a subsystem to totally disable a BS. Plus BS tracking does have trouble hitting frigs. It's why they need good drone skills to fight of Frigs.
I like the thought of taking out BS's with Frigs, but you can already do that with some Ewar and tackle. So this would just make it another layer of complexity I think. My 0.2 isk.
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Meditril
T.R.I.A.D
Defiant Legacy
55
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Posted - 2012.03.27 14:53:00 -
[15] - Quote
Subsystem targetting sounds nice on paper, but when you try to come up with an implementation you will see that it makes the game competely unbalanced. Especially the questions arrives: When do you do damage to a subsystem? While shields are on? While in armor? While in hull?
Electronic Warefare is currently providing something similar to subsystem targeting. E.g. Neutralizer target you cap while ECM target you locking computer etc.
Finally, if you are a good frigate pilot you can kill a weak battle ship pilot already... so everyhing is fine as it currently is with regards to this non-issue. |
bom chickawawa
the inglourious basterds
Bringers of Death.
2
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Posted - 2012.03.29 07:26:00 -
[16] - Quote
i like the sound of this but it would be mayb more useful in this scenario,
im in a ship, jump through a gate, get tackled by hostiles, only one of there ships has a warp scrambler i target him then target subsystem (warp scrambler) boom peww lazors that scrambler goes pop i GTFO
U MAD BRO!!!
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Diesel47
My Little Pwnys
7
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Posted - 2012.03.29 08:36:00 -
[17] - Quote
Its not a bad idea...
But It is too big of a change to a system that has been around for almost a decade.
I don't see it happening. |
Iria Ahrens
Holy Arena
9
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Posted - 2012.03.31 11:26:00 -
[18] - Quote
We already have a module for a frigate to disable a BSs guns, it's called a Tracking Disruptor. Frigates can take out a BS already, it's just hard because most BS don't only have guns, they have drones and missiles too for taking out pesky frigs with intentions of grandeur. Then there is the issue of a BS tank, and a BS can fit neuts too.
No matter how you fit any ship, another ship can fit to take you on. The funniest thing I've seen yet was an itty V take out a megathron. |
Miss Guardian
Salted Wounds
0
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Posted - 2012.04.02 12:45:00 -
[19] - Quote
Highsec bears shouldn't post in this sub fourom ... For reasons like this |
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