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Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2008.09.18 15:03:00 -
[31]
 Quote:
I took an astarte to illustrate that the following issues are also present:
-with fitting gang mods in a gang
-being well tanked
-doing nice damage.
Dual-rep Ion II Astarte with gang mod, MCB and MWD fits nicely. A comparable active Nighthawk with MWD, Med CB, LSB, HMLs and gang mod need three RCUs.
Buffer 1600 plate trimarked gang-mod Astarte also fits with Ions if you switch to small CB. A comparable NH buffer fit still requires two RCUs.
If your Astarte had the fitting problems of the NH, you'd sit in a corner and start crying. Limited fittings are justifed on ships that would be otherwise overpowered - Dominix, Raven, for example - but this is not the case with the Nighthawk.
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Car Wars
Destructive Influence
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.09.18 17:59:00 -
[32]
Edited by: Car Wars on 18/09/2008 17:59:50
Originally by: Gypsio III
Dual-rep Ion II Astarte with gang mod, MCB and MWD fits nicely. A comparable active Nighthawk with MWD, Med CB, LSB, HMLs and gang mod need three RCUs.
True this fits very nicely. Even can switch some ions to neutrons.
But gang mod really...I showed you the role of the astarte in a gang. It would be a waste, that one not bonused gang mod aint doing much...furhter the sort of gang is also very relevant. Fly and fit a ship so it benefits your gang the most.
Guess we differ of opinion on this one. I dont think field cs are meant to use em.
Nighthawk:
-fit 5x pdu II + 1 grid rig to fit your setup.492 dps tank (1 rig slot empty) cap stable with booster. stupid fit yeah, but possible.
-other option: 1 grid rig, 1 rcu II, 2x pdu II fits your setup (tank 413 dps) with two slots spare for for instance bcu's. Not fenomonal but comparable to astarte in tank.
It is thus possible with an awkward fit and a less awkward fit. Really consider dropping the gang mod. To build a very nice tank + do nice damage.
Quote:
Buffer 1600 plate trimarked gang-mod Astarte also fits with Ions if you switch to small CB. A comparable NH buffer fit still requires two RCUs.
Fitting constraints: Have you ever looked at the powergrid consumption of blasters vs heavy missiles?
(with lv5 skills)
heavy electron II: 94.5
heavy ion II: 142.2
heavy neutron II: 190.8
heavy missile II: 94.5
fitting neutron means roughly a 700 powergrid differenc vs heavy missiles, fitting ions 350, fitting electrons = same
to comment more specific on the proposed setup:
-it aint no mega, a plated and trimarked astarte is a brick.
-small cap booster is not an option. Your proposed setup needs 1 power grid rig. small cap booster with 200's can sustain guns + tackle + one rep running for 3m 42sec. With a pathetic 119 dps tank. dual rep runs for 1m 27 sec (peak 449 dps tanked i used 1 nanopump not a trimark)
-Maybe this would be usefull on station or with railguns but they require more grid(doesnt fit with 1 grid rig and 200mm rails), eats slightly more cap with cn antimatter + less dps
-dropping the power grid rig means i will have to use 1 rcu II and a pdu II to fit the plate + ions + dual rep + medium boosters. i then have a 327 dps cap stable tank (2 nanopumps) as long with 800's loaded in the booster. Two fitting mods, very similar to nighthawk.
setups are with lv5 fitting skills.
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BiggestT
Caldari
Space Oddysey
Pupule 'Ohana
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Posted - 2008.09.18 18:00:00 -
[33]
Hmm, dont active tank it..
The sleips the active tanker.
But i do think it shd get a litle more grid, as i need an rcu on my passive tnak, mwd nighthawk WITHOUT a gang mod.
It really shld be able to fit it, especially since it has a spare high..
Awesome EVE history
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Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2008.09.18 19:36:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Car Wars
Good stuff
Yeah, I think our vision of Field CS just differs and we'll have to leave it at that. If CCP wants to tweak the NH PG, so be it. BTW though, I've recommended in other threads a 140 base PG boost to the NH - which still won't let it fit a XLSB without gimping itself with RCUs, so I don't think that you need to worry about that.
I appreciate that the plated, trimarked Astarte is a brick, and not ideal for a ship that must get to whites-of-eyes range. Not to mention ignoring the rep bonus. I included the fit mostly out of completeness of comparison. Also, that buffer fit was pure buffer - no rep at all - so the strain on the small cap booster would be less intolerable.
But really I think that CS aren't sufficiently better than tier 2 BC. So I think I look to fit a gang mod simply to justify their existence... 
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8Pool
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Posted - 2008.09.18 20:23:00 -
[35]
I must say i agree with you gipsyo,
the field comand ship's, cant make a big difference from the t2 bc which is sad,
I also agree on the 140 pg boost bonus, it wont let us fit a x-large shield booster, but it could be very usefull for fitting
a mwd,
the one thing i must add is that i beleive that the precision bonus should be replaced maybe for velocity/range missile bonus.
I am cosidering this thread close, but still i dont have any responses from a DEV, which is sad.  |
Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2008.09.18 20:43:00 -
[36]
Originally by: 8Pool
the one thing i must add is that i beleive that the precision bonus should be replaced maybe for velocity/range missile bonus.
We'll have to see how missile dynamics are changed with the speed rebalancing. But yeah, currently the missile precision bonus is useless. Missile explosion velocity would be my bonus of choice with the current dynamics.
Don't be disheartened by the lack of Dev response though. You can tell from threads that they do respond promptly to that they read the forums. A few months ago, I kept a massive NH PG thread going and it never received comments - but I knew that they'd seen it. Since the CSM passed the NH PG motion I didn't see that bumping it served any purpose, though.
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Nayannia Night
Channel 4 News Team
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Posted - 2008.09.19 01:59:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Car Wars
Giving it more grid would probably open the way to fit an xl shield booster with shield extenders making it stupidly tanked..
you havent looked at many sliepnirs and claymores have you....they routinely fit an XL booster and amp, and they also get the boost bonus stock... What active shield tank relies on extenders? neither missles nor projectiles use cap so they both save their if using a XL booster, one gets a boost amount one get a resistance. So to say it shouldnt be allowed to fit a XL isnt really thinking. besides a pvp build on a NH is active and very lacking anyhow a XL booster could help them alot more. you dont see them in combat because they die easier than any other pvp fit HAC CMD....
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Nova Fox
Gallente
Novafox Shipyards
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Posted - 2008.09.19 03:07:00 -
[38]
where is a dead horse when you need it?
There was a 40 page long aguement with developer responses if i recall right about this already, its been voted up by the csm to bring it up to ccp's attention why are you begging for a dev reply when its just another rotting topic thats probably going to bring up the same exact poits the last thread did.
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Car Wars
Destructive Influence
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.09.19 08:36:00 -
[39]
Edited by: Car Wars on 19/09/2008 08:37:10
Originally by: Nayannia Night
Originally by: Car Wars
Giving it more grid would probably open the way to fit an xl shield booster with shield extenders making it stupidly tanked..
you havent looked at many sliepnirs and claymores have you....they routinely fit an XL booster and amp, and they also get the boost bonus stock... What active shield tank relies on extenders? neither missles nor projectiles use cap so they both save their if using a XL booster, one gets a boost amount one get a resistance. So to say it shouldnt be allowed to fit a XL isnt really thinking. besides a pvp build on a NH is active and very lacking anyhow a XL booster could help them alot more. you dont see them in combat because they die easier than any other pvp fit HAC CMD....
I wanted to point out, that with more grid an xl shield booster + extra buffer might be viable. Anyways looking at the fits that would need a very big powergrid increase. so disregards that comment. XL booster is a bs mods though, comparable to 2x large armor rep. Its a bit stupid a sleipnir can fit it, does it downgrade its guns for it?
A bit more grid is probably warranted for the nighthawk. Seeing that a decent active tank always needs 2 pdu's to cram everything in (without gang mod) is a bit awkward. Although pdu help you tank in multiple ways, it is still a fitting mod.
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