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Stork DK
Minmatar
Synthetic Frontiers
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Posted - 2008.09.17 12:32:00 -
[1]
Black Ops are cool.
Having an actual Tech II Geddong is my wildest dream!
But..
Currently the black ops is about as efficent as a logistic platform as a jump freighter with a talisman set.
Possible buffs to the Black Ops class vessels.
1) High sec cyno
+ Being able to light up an undetectable covert cyno in high sec systems would be quite useful for sneaky war operations.
- BPO/Implant hauling becomes 100% safe. Possibly limit the cargo item types to ammo/cap sticks/fuel?
2) Fuel consumption.
Currently the fuel cost of brigding ships is stupidly high. Here is some numbers (Not nano/poly ships):
Manticore 1 Light/Year = 140,4 isotopes
Falcon 1 Light/Year = 820,8 isotopes
Rapier 1 Light/Year = 680,4 isotopes
Note that regular jumps span from 3-4 Light/Years.
1 isotope = 0.15m3 p/u
500 isotopes = 75m3
Average cargo bay:
Black ops = 593,75m3
Force Recon = 315m3
Stealth Bomber = 213,75m3
These numbers make it extremely difficult to brigde more than a couple ships without going all out on honour tanks and cargo rigs.
Note: The titan Jump Bridge can send all ships in the game through using less fuel than the black ops...
Just seem wrong that such a specialized ship is so underpowered compared to the ever increasing numbers of titans that can do so much more (OK pricetag is a bit bigger don't flame =P )
Ideas:
Seperate Fuel bay ?
Less fuel use ?
Ice product compression ?
3) Cloaked Warping.
Many players want the ultimate sneaking solopvp bbq pwnmobile.
Not gonna happen.
But if cloaked warping was to be introduced the black ops would need its weapon system reduced drastically to make it a pure logistics vessel.
(Redeemer currently dishes out an easy 800 DPS with a decent plate tank.)
4) Cyno jammers.
Being able to sneak in a fleet of falcons to a sov lvl 4 cynojammed system ?
Overpowered...
If you have ideas please feel free to post them =]
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- Stork DK, Synthetic Frontiers CEO |
Vabjekf
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Posted - 2008.09.17 13:17:00 -
[2]
I dont know why they even added it. Its trying to do too much at once. They should have focused on just making it an 'lol invisible battleship'. Make them exact duplicates of regular battleships in every way, same damage, same tank, same fitting. their extra special advantage for being tech 2 should be warp while cloaked.
Thats the only logical role.
No good? Remove them from the game.
Even mauraders. Oh hi im super high tech advanced amazing but my sensors are crap because when they were putting me togeather all they had was a bunch of old outdated parts for sensors. My advantage is being able to fit tractor beams and salvagers!
Useless ship. Only useful because tractorbeams and salvagers. Which are stupid. Get rid of salvage its just an added hassle, build rigs out of minerals. Or not at all! Making stuff capable of so dramatically improving your ship out of space debris is not very plausible.
So to summarize.
Get rid of all tech 2 battleships
Get rid of salvage
Buff amarr
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Tippia
Caldari
School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2008.09.17 13:36:00 -
[3]
 Originally by: Vabjekf
Get rid of salvage its just an added hassle, build rigs out of minerals. Or not at all! Making stuff capable of so dramatically improving your ship out of space debris is not very plausible.
…weeeeell. Minerals are bits of space debris as well, and it doesn't sound that implausible that you can cobble together some wierd appliances from parts of old ships. 
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Leina Kubyeshev
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Posted - 2008.09.17 13:36:00 -
[4]
remove salvage? Your insane. Amarr doesn't need a buff just balance. Some people scare me they're so stupid.
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Vabjekf
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Posted - 2008.09.17 13:47:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Leina Kubyeshev
remove salvage? Your insane. Amarr doesn't need a buff just balance. Some people scare me they're so stupid.
I bet you're only saying that becuase you are a wreck stealing griefer!
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ThaDollaGenerale
The Priory
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Posted - 2008.09.17 13:56:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Vabjekf
Originally by: Leina Kubyeshev
remove salvage? Your insane. Amarr doesn't need a buff just balance. Some people scare me they're so stupid.
I bet you're only saying that becuase you are a wreck stealing griefer!
BUM BUM BUM AND THE AD HOMINEM ATTACK IS OUT IN FORCE
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Garia666
Amarr
T.H.U.G L.I.F.E
White Core
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Posted - 2008.09.17 14:14:00 -
[7]
m8 please check this link
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=819294
www.garia.net |
Black Tahee1
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Posted - 2008.09.17 14:20:00 -
[8]
lets go back OT:
Yes they need some changes.
I'd like to see it have an amazing tank capability, limited guns, fuel bay so you can actually jump a 30 man gang over.
Maybe a shipsize limit on the jumping like max BC sized ships.
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Naga Elohim
Amarr
Forsaken Death Squad
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Posted - 2008.09.17 14:29:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Naga Elohim on 17/09/2008 14:29:33
This black ops discussion needs to get louder.....
I just trained to get the Redeemer and its all good in theory but you cant really jump anywhere with that cargobay.
And we all really need to stress the ability to warp cloaked with a penalty to targeting or something.
So in summary:
Larger Fuel Bay
Warp while cloaked (with penalty)
Weapon power or slots slightly modified
High sec covert/cynos
Less fuel consumtion for recon ships using covert/cyno
It wouldnt be a solowtfpwn mobile however it would be fufilling it role better than it is now. As it stand right now you have to make use of cans to be able to get anywhere.
PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE buff the black ops!
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Squably
Minmatar
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2008.09.17 14:31:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Garia666
m8 please check this link
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=819294
Nope CSM is a fail (no wonder when even goons get in there impossible to take it serious then), we all know the only thing that helps is forum whoring.
I know its sad but true.
Signature removed. Please do not imply profanity in your signature. Navigator
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Naga Elohim
Amarr
Forsaken Death Squad
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Posted - 2008.09.17 14:37:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Vabjekf
Get rid of salvage its just an added hassle, build rigs out of minerals. Or not at all! Making stuff capable of so dramatically improving your ship out of space debris is not very plausible.
àweeeeell. Minerals are bits of space debris as well, and it doesn't sound that implausible that you can cobble together some wierd appliances from parts of old ships.
Have you seen the bonuses rigs give? No rig dramatically improves anything. Only slightly.
DO you know anything about jury rigging? Its a real life thing you know. It works on cars, airplanes, anything! It is very plausible. Its like taking a few broken computers, stripping the useful parts to build your own Supercomputer.
And given this is a SPACESHIP game, taking broken parts from a ship to make yours better kinda fits into the whole plausible thing.
In conclusion...youre either joking, ******ed or simply you dont know any better.
Get rid of salvage and rigs...ha....what a joke.
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Stork DK
Minmatar
Synthetic Frontiers
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Posted - 2008.09.17 15:00:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Garia666
m8 please check this link
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=819294
Cheers for the link Garia, although i doubt that a csm meeting will change anything about the black ops, if a developer made a statement in that thread i'd believe it but...
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- Stork DK, Synthetic Frontiers CEO |
Vabjekf
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Posted - 2008.09.17 18:00:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Naga Elohim
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Vabjekf
Get rid of salvage its just an added hassle, build rigs out of minerals. Or not at all! Making stuff capable of so dramatically improving your ship out of space debris is not very plausible.
àweeeeell. Minerals are bits of space debris as well, and it doesn't sound that implausible that you can cobble together some wierd appliances from parts of old ships.
Have you seen the bonuses rigs give? No rig dramatically improves anything. Only slightly.
DO you know anything about jury rigging? Its a real life thing you know. It works on cars, airplanes, anything! It is very plausible. Its like taking a few broken computers, stripping the useful parts to build your own Supercomputer.
And given this is a SPACESHIP game, taking broken parts from a ship to make yours better kinda fits into the whole plausible thing.
In conclusion...youre either joking, ******ed or simply you dont know any better.
Get rid of salvage and rigs...ha....what a joke.
I know the difference in tanking a drake has with rigs vs no rigs. Being that BC are somewhere in the middle of things, obviously that can be taken as an average and realistic example of what rigs are capable of on a whole. Therefore yes, very powerful. If rigs were not, then nobody would ever have had mentioned the fact that t2 ships only get two slots, and then subsequently complained about it - on the internet!
If rigs were that great, realistically someone would design more solid production items to go into said slots that were better than things just thrown togeather. They would not be strapped togeather out of random bits of space junk, but have their own parts custom manufactured for the job.
The solution to these problems remains, buff amarr. (also that other stuff that i mentioned earlyer, which is more related, but less important)
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Kill Whitey
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Posted - 2008.09.17 21:51:00 -
[14]
The fact that is can't warp while cloaked is insane... Given the role that this type ship would be developed for.. this would be a deal breaker... Fix that mess ASAP. 
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Somealt Ofmine
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Posted - 2008.09.17 21:57:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Somealt Ofmine on 17/09/2008 21:57:46
Just give it a separate fuel bay / reduce consumption so that it can bridge a 10 man gang to the extent of its (2 ly) range and get them home again. Make covert cynos work in cyno jammed systems. No, not high-sec systems. This doesn't need to become the noob-grief-mobile. That's all it needs, and you're good to go. Oh, yeah, and make a hauler class that can use the bridge.
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Captator
Universal Securities
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Posted - 2008.09.17 23:01:00 -
[16]
I agree with 1) and 2) and disagree with 3) and 4):
1) A blockade runner already has this almost-unkillable highsec hauler vibe going on already, so that wouldn't be an issue, as burning fuel to haul in safety is a reasonable trade-off in and of itself.
2)I think less fuel use and more cargo is the way to go here - these ships are supposedly designed for operating behind enemy lines, in which case they need large cargoholds for the ammo/fuel/w/e that they have to use to operate (whatever that may be).
3)Plate tanked redeemer, you might as well put a cloak in the 8th high on a geddon, the drawback here for covops cloaking is obvious -
[1], you have a 5second delay before you can start targetting (wouldnt' have the locking delay bonus if they used covops cloaks),
[2] they have crap scan res anyway, so unless you plan to fit lots of sensor boosters and no point, you are unlikely to lock before anything but the slowest ship gets into warp (if you have gang mates tackling then the presence of a covops cloak from a combat perspective is moot).
[3] the ship costs 500m, I wouldn't be using it like a shiny geddon, and plating it when you need to be able to gtf out is silly - more likely the fit would be based around high dps, high manuverability, minimal tank (I have killed a redeemer fit like you describe, it went down like a sack of spuds, and woulda been better if it was a geddon).
4) Falcons can't do much without a support fleet, which would still have to get in via the gates, so you are realistically looking at a few recons and a dozen or so bombers, not much, very flimsy, and requires a lot of setup to use effectively in a fight (in terms of positioning etc) I think being able to jump to distant stars would give true ability to operate behind enemy lines.
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Stork DK
Minmatar
Synthetic Frontiers
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Posted - 2008.09.18 11:01:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Captator
4) Falcons can't do much without a support fleet, which would still have to get in via the gates, so you are realistically looking at a few recons and a dozen or so bombers, not much, very flimsy, and requires a lot of setup to use effectively in a fight (in terms of positioning etc) I think being able to jump to distant stars would give true ability to operate behind enemy lines.
Being able to get in behind an enemy camp with say.. 10 falcons and then starting to jam them as the friendly fleet jumps through the gate would be more than just effective. Couple this with some rapiers to hold them all in place and you got yourself a decent anticamp setup.
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Somealt Ofmine
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Posted - 2008.09.18 16:52:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Stork DK
Being able to get in behind an enemy camp with say.. 10 falcons and then starting to jam them as the friendly fleet jumps through the gate would be more than just effective. Couple this with some rapiers to hold them all in place and you got yourself a decent anticamp setup.
Only in a "land war" where the campers are charged with trying to hold the gate. Would be totally ineffective against pirate camps or 0.0 gank camps that tend to run or call in the cavalry as soon as they see local jump. Put local in delayed mode like all the other channels, though, and black/covert ops become very viable tactics.
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Dr Cedric
Caldari
Orbital Industry and Research.
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Posted - 2008.09.22 22:51:00 -
[19]
Random idea:
put the maurader weapon bonus on the ship, but only give it a few high slots.
You get your OK damage, you free up highslots for other logistical fittings, and you put the T2 BS class back together. Why would (from a RP point of view) developers of either not put a little of both into each ship? Double damage BS guns added to the Black Ops seems a good thing to me. Keep the sensor calibration lag for decloaking, but let it use Covops Cloak.
Just an idea...flame away : )
Dr Cedric
CEO Orbital Industry and Research -OIR- |
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