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Tiirae
The New Era
HUZZAH FEDERATION
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Posted - 2008.09.23 06:20:00 -
[1]
I see someone has put up a buy order in Jita for 18,259 armor plates at about 20k ISK above all other buy orders. In fact, it's actually above all sell orders as well.
But the minimum qty is 18,259. It's been up for a week now. I am perplexed.
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Ricdics
Tleilex Developments
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Posted - 2008.09.23 07:10:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Ricdics on 23/09/2008 07:13:02
It would seem he wants them all delivered too him. Either that or he screwed up on a manipulation attempt and doesn't want to have to lose his market fees to withdraw and re-place the order |
Neidhardt Foster
Sternenschauer AG
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Posted - 2008.09.23 07:27:00 -
[3]
Hmmm, I can't think of a rig that requires Armor Plates and would be profitable to build with Armor Plates for 20k above Jita buy-price.
Either it is a mistake as Ricdics pointed it out, or this deal is not ment to go throught. Some crude theory of mine: If someone delivers the Armor Plates the deal will break (Margin Trading and not enough Deposit), this guy than has 18k Armor Plates sitting in Jita (which he obviously does not need), this could drive down the prices of Armor Plates quite a lot.
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YouGotRipped
Ewigkeit
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Posted - 2008.09.23 10:17:00 -
[4]
Edited by: YouGotRipped on 23/09/2008 10:23:43
 Originally by: Tiirae
I see someone has put up a buy order in Jita for 18,259 armor plates at about 20k ISK above all other buy orders. In fact, it's actually above all sell orders as well.
But the minimum qty is 18,259. It's been up for a week now. I am perplexed.
It's quite simple actually.
First you must take into account possible destinations and while at it also take a look at the compression ratio.
It could be that the guy is managing production for an alliance and they're building a supercapital. If that's the case this particular item has a high percentage of empire minerals.
Oh and the fact that the min quantity is 18259 while the price pp is 20k above the max in Jita lol that's obvious too. Buying piece by piece will eventually drive the regional average price up and that will require more money than just 20k pp above current accepted sell price.
And yes he wants them all in one place.
"Easy huh?"
P.S. Yes I appreciate Taikun's and Riethe's posts a lot. hahah
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MilowFV
Echo Heavy Industries
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Posted - 2008.09.23 10:49:00 -
[5]
well now I am kind of confused. He is talking about the salvage item armor plate so I dont see where compression ratio or supercap production comes into play, not that I ve made many cap ships myself.
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YouGotRipped
Ewigkeit
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Posted - 2008.09.23 10:50:00 -
[6]
Edited by: YouGotRipped on 23/09/2008 10:55:28
Originally by: MilowFV
well now I am kind of confused. He is talking about the salvage item armor plate so I dont see where compression ratio or supercap production comes into play, not that I ve made many cap ships myself.
Lol, salvage? better edit my post. It has been a while since I last played the game. 
Thank you btw.
There's a particular rig, a quite common one, Trimark Armor Pump that has seen some substantial increase in price lately due to the nano nerf.
The guy expects the price to rise and indeed it will rise once the deal goes through.
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Tiirae
The New Era
HUZZAH FEDERATION
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Posted - 2008.09.23 11:33:00 -
[7]
Thing is, anyone who's got 18000 armor plates is never going to drop them on a buy order like that anyway, it's only a few minutes work to plug them into a build job and make much more money.
I think it's either a mistake and he's hoping they get filled so he doesn't lose a fairly substantial broker fee, or it's some weird isk-seller laundering scheme.
Third possibility is it's someone who's going to be out of the game for a while just taking a long position on them, but it's a weird and probably pointless way to do it.
18k units certainly aren't going to make any difference to the market either way. As YGR said, it's barely a third of daily volume.
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Nido Gentz
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Posted - 2008.09.23 12:41:00 -
[8]
He's been doing this for weeks now. Formerly I thought it was a cheap way to artificially inflate the price. He used to use orders between 3,000 and 6,000 units, with a matching minimum, and put each one 10K above the other. People wouldn't realize that the minimum was for the entire lot and would follow him up so to speak. As a result, he was able to cheaply manipulate the plates.
However, now he jumped up to 18K, which really doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. I'm convinced (even though I have nothing to back it up) that if someone tried to sell him the whole order, it would be canceled due to margin trading.
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YouGotRipped
Ewigkeit
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Posted - 2008.09.23 12:50:00 -
[9]
Edited by: YouGotRipped on 23/09/2008 12:52:38
Originally by: Nido Gentz
He's been doing this for weeks now. Formerly I thought it was a cheap way to artificially inflate the price. He used to use orders between 3,000 and 6,000 units, with a matching minimum, and put each one 10K above the other. People wouldn't realize that the minimum was for the entire lot and would follow him up so to speak. As a result, he was able to cheaply manipulate the plates.
However, now he jumped up to 18K, which really doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. I'm convinced (even though I have nothing to back it up) that if someone tried to sell him the whole order, it would be canceled due to margin trading.
What's the name of the guy? I've been manufacturing rigs myself so I know the folks.
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Nido Gentz
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Posted - 2008.09.23 12:59:00 -
[10]
Originally by: YouGotRipped
What's the name of the guy? I've been manufacturing rigs myself so I know the folks.
No idea, can't just sell one plate to the guy, and I've never attempted to fill his whole order. But for the low price of 18,000 plates, you can find out. 
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Kazzac Elentria
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Posted - 2008.09.23 13:28:00 -
[11]
Feels like a mistake if you ask me, or a poor attempt at manipulation. |
Ricdic
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.09.23 13:35:00 -
[12]
I dunno, I keep thinking the guy who done this on the market may actually have been quite smart to do so. A few different ways it can be of benefit are coming to mind and they are quite unique but I am not quite sure if they will work.
I would love to chat to the guy to find out for sure |
Kazzac Elentria
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Posted - 2008.09.23 14:34:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Ricdic
I dunno, I keep thinking the guy who done this on the market may actually have been quite smart to do so. A few different ways it can be of benefit are coming to mind and they are quite unique but I am not quite sure if they will work.
I would love to chat to the guy to find out for sure
There is only one way that I can think of that it would work as manipulation, but since its salvage and the type chosen is racial drop specific.
.... it would sorta have to be in the right region for it to work I would think since anyone with a back supply could come and ruin it.
But thats only the one way I can think of. |
Saint Lazarus
Spiorad ag fanaiocht
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Posted - 2008.09.23 15:47:00 -
[14]
Yeah hes been at it awhile, I havnt noticed it having much effect tbh
Only logical thing I can think of is hes stockpiling a huge amount and putting up big overpriced buy orders lets him do it without the tediousness of 0.1 price wars
-----------------
My EvE Comic
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Ricdics
Tleilex Developments
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Posted - 2008.09.23 16:04:00 -
[15]
My theory revolved around him having unwary mission runners see a huge buy order in Jita, and take their crap amounts of salvage there and sell to highest buy without realising they couldn't sell to his buy as it has a minimum quantity. Anyway his lower priced buy then picks up the mission runners and resellers flocking to jita to find out they don't have the quantity.
This also works for him against other buyers as well, as they see his insanely high price and figure "screw this, I aint competing with that" even though they also didn't notice his quantity requirement, they just saw his high buy order and station net.
Now, on the other hand, buyers seeing his order don't notice the quantity and put their buy orders above his at which point he sells his cheaply purchased stocks to them swiftly for awesome profit.
See he knows his high buy order will be difficult to fill (would take a LOT of mission runners to get 18,000 of these bars from salvaging), it basically requires approx 4b worth of stock to fill the order and the main people who will be able to fill the order will be people picking it up from neighbouring systems/regions (no-one would stockpile that kind of quantity when prices are at this point) meaning they are removing the rest of the stocks around. When his order fills the regional average increases and he reprices at his new manipulated prices.
Most existing stocks have already been offloaded by hoarding mission runners and traders moving the items to jita for a quick profit so he puts up another 4b buy order with high quantity whilst his sell orders get higher and higher and higher.
That's the kinda direction I am thinking towards here. Now, maybe the guy did simply screw up by accidentally setting min quant to 18k but if not i would love to chat to him as this is a very unique way to manipulate and could very well succeed. |
YouGotRipped
Ewigkeit
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Posted - 2008.09.23 17:00:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Ricdics
My theory revolved around him having unwary mission runners see a huge buy order in Jita, and take their crap amounts of salvage there and sell to highest buy without realising they couldn't sell to his buy as it has a minimum quantity. Anyway his lower priced buy then picks up the mission runners and resellers flocking to jita to find out they don't have the quantity.
This also works for him against other buyers as well, as they see his insanely high price and figure "screw this, I aint competing with that" even though they also didn't notice his quantity requirement, they just saw his high buy order and station net.
Now, on the other hand, buyers seeing his order don't notice the quantity and put their buy orders above his at which point he sells his cheaply purchased stocks to them swiftly for awesome profit.
Shielding orders in Jita is quite pointless. Nevertheless Ricdic has discovered an advanced marketing technique and deserves a bone for that.
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Finedele
Marquie-X Corp
Majesta Empire
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Posted - 2008.09.23 17:18:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Finedele on 23/09/2008 17:18:42
nice bunch of links you sent me mr YGR :D
its time to come back, after you spent so much time here already ^^
regarding the buyorder, i would think it was a typo of some kind, 18k units is ... pointless
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YouGotRipped
Ewigkeit
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Posted - 2008.09.23 17:44:00 -
[18]
Edited by: YouGotRipped on 23/09/2008 17:44:02
Originally by: Finedele
Edited by: Finedele on 23/09/2008 17:18:42
nice bunch of links you sent me mr YGR :D
its time to come back, after you spent so much time here already ^^
I did? lol
I'm just cruisin'.
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Kazzac Elentria
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Posted - 2008.09.23 18:41:00 -
[19]
Originally by: YouGotRipped
Edited by: YouGotRipped on 23/09/2008 17:15:24
Originally by: Ricdics
My theory revolved around him having unwary mission runners see a huge buy order in Jita, and take their crap amounts of salvage there and sell to highest buy without realising they couldn't sell to his buy as it has a minimum quantity. Anyway his lower priced buy then picks up the mission runners and resellers flocking to jita to find out they don't have the quantity.
This also works for him against other buyers as well, as they see his insanely high price and figure "screw this, I aint competing with that" even though they also didn't notice his quantity requirement, they just saw his high buy order and station net.
Now, on the other hand, buyers seeing his order don't notice the quantity and put their buy orders above his at which point he sells his cheaply purchased stocks to them swiftly for awesome profit.
Shielding orders in Jita is quite pointless. Nevertheless Ricdic has discovered an advanced market technique and deserves a bone for that.
I was thinking more about balancing as a possible explanation which is another advanced market technique. But I'll leave you guys to figure that one out by yourselves.
This really isn't that advanced, its a pretty lock and stock standard method when centered on mission hubs. |
SencneS
Amarr
Rebellion Against big Irreversible Dinks
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Posted - 2008.09.23 19:06:00 -
[20]
LOL the bait....
OK Mental Conditioning lesson coming up next.
Let say I have 15,000 units of something and I want to sell it for x amount higher then everyone else. Knowing the Margin Trading mechanics of the game I can use this to my advantage.
1) The lowest price sell order for this item is say 10,000 ISK.
2) I place my 15,000 units on the market for 17,500 ISK.
3) I place a buy order for a what would buy my 15,000 units plus cover all the units that would be purchased if someone was to buy up all the stock.
Foolish trader..
Sees a buy order for 18,000 units of something at 30,000 ISK. The Trader then goes and buys up everyones stock to cover those 18,000 units which also covers my 15,000 units. Tries to sell to my buy order and fails due to margin trading "exploit".
Now the buy that purchased all the items has a massive number of units to which he purchased for say an average of 13,000, in which he places on the market for 13,000 ISK.
It is still the cheapest sell order at that location so the Trader doesn't feel that bad, as long as he makes a small profit.
The outcome.
I sold 15,000 units of an item for 17,500, 75% more then everyone else.
The buyer has 18,000 units of something to which he is now selling above the "Normal" price which we all know looks like an attempt to manipulate.
The mental conditioning is trying to convince someone to do something they believe if beneficial to themselves. They see they could buy up 18,000 units of something for under 20K, and sell them in the same location for 30K, that's a big profit for very little work.
Amarr for Life |
YouGotRipped
Ewigkeit
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Posted - 2008.09.23 19:19:00 -
[21]
Edited by: YouGotRipped on 23/09/2008 19:25:39
Originally by: SencneS
The mental conditioning is trying to convince someone to do something they believe is beneficial to themselves. They see they could buy up 18,000 units of something for under 20K, and sell them in the same location for 30K, that's a big profit for very little work.
It could work on a smaller scale but to have 4B isk in your pocket and fall for this kind of station scam is mutually exclusive. Best explanation so far if we also take into account previous smaller scale attempts.
Originally by: Nido Gentz
He's been doing this for weeks now. Formerly I thought it was a cheap way to artificially inflate the price. He used to use orders between 3,000 and 6,000 units, with a matching minimum, and put each one 10K above the other. People wouldn't realize that the minimum was for the entire lot and would follow him up so to speak. As a result, he was able to cheaply manipulate the plates.
However, now he jumped up to 18K, which really doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. I'm convinced (even though I have nothing to back it up) that if someone tried to sell him the whole order, it would be canceled due to margin trading.
Fact is, I know for sure that at least 2 major rigs producers buy and also sell high quantities (at a higher price ofc) of raw materials in both Amarr and Jita and who knows where else. But I thought it to be a means of regulating production that's why I asked if anyone knew the name of the 18k order guy.
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the victors
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Posted - 2008.09.24 11:57:00 -
[22]
There's something very strange going on here...
And I'm behind it. 
The most creative question (not to be confused with the best question, which I don't care about) posted in the next 24 hours will be answered.
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YouGotRipped
Ewigkeit
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Posted - 2008.09.24 12:11:00 -
[23]
Edited by: YouGotRipped on 24/09/2008 12:15:08
Originally by: the victors
There's something very strange going on here...
And I'm behind it.
The most creative question (not to be confused with the best question, which I don't care about) posted in the next 24 hours will be answered.
The question I'm about to ask you will pose quite a challenge even to someone of your intelligence so I want you to take a deep breath and try to relax.
What have your parents been feeding you yesterday for supper?
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Ambo
Dirty Deeds Corp.
Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2008.09.24 14:57:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Ambo on 24/09/2008 14:57:02
What is the airspeed velocity of an unladen swallow?
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Trader? Investor? Just want to track your finances? Check out EMMA |
Dimitryy
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Posted - 2008.09.24 17:14:00 -
[25]
An African or European swallow?
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Ulecese
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Posted - 2008.09.25 02:16:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Ulecese on 25/09/2008 02:23:03
It's basic manipulation. The buy order amount of 18,259 for armor plates is just to make ppl believe that the order is being filled - a round number is more suspect, but still most people don't notice that.
here is one I made earlier
Within 25 minutes of putting the buy and sell order up I had the first bite, 10 minutes after that I sold all the units I had set on the sell order.
Easiest way to offload badly moving stock without taking a loss.
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Treelox
Amarr
Market Jihadist Revolutionary Party
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Posted - 2008.09.25 02:39:00 -
[27]
Damm you all, your giving away the merchant guild secrets!!11!one!!!
--
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the victors
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Posted - 2008.09.26 11:18:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Ulecese
Edited by: Ulecese on 25/09/2008 02:23:03
It's basic manipulation. The buy order amount of 18,259 for armor plates is just to make ppl believe that the order is being filled - a round number is more suspect, but still most people don't notice that.
here is one I made earlier
Within 25 minutes of putting the buy and sell order up I had the first bite, 10 minutes after that I sold all the units I had set on the sell order.
Easiest way to offload badly moving stock without taking a loss.
This wins, because even though it's not a question, it's still the best post. Now... think about how to make this technique even better.
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Ulecese
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Posted - 2008.09.26 11:38:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Ulecese on 26/09/2008 11:44:17
Originally by: the victors
Originally by: Ulecese
Edited by: Ulecese on 25/09/2008 02:23:03
It's basic manipulation. The buy order amount of 18,259 for armor plates is just to make ppl believe that the order is being filled - a round number is more suspect, but still most people don't notice that.
here is one I made earlier
Within 25 minutes of putting the buy and sell order up I had the first bite, 10 minutes after that I sold all the units I had set on the sell order.
Easiest way to offload badly moving stock without taking a loss.
This wins, because even though it's not a question, it's still the best post. Now... think about how to make this technique even better.
You fishing for techniques too? 
Ok here is another freebie...
to add another level to this 'manipulation' you set another buy order for the same item at say 200 isk per unit, at approximately the volume you are selling with no minimum quantity.
When the buyer purchases your stock and attempts to resell, the system automatically bypasses the larger buy order you set since they will not have the minimum quantity and sells to your lower buy order instead.
99% of the time the trader will not see this and do the transaction.
Result - You just sold your stock for 275pu isk then bought it back again pretty much immediately for 200pu isk.
Basically, free, easy ISK.
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Tiirae
The New Era
HUZZAH FEDERATION
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Posted - 2008.09.26 11:59:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Ulecese
Edited by: Ulecese on 26/09/2008 11:44:17
Originally by: the victors
Originally by: Ulecese
Edited by: Ulecese on 25/09/2008 02:23:03
It's basic manipulation. The buy order amount of 18,259 for armor plates is just to make ppl believe that the order is being filled - a round number is more suspect, but still most people don't notice that.
here is one I made earlier
this answer is accepted as the best one. can't imagine why I didn't realise that, it's a nice little scheme :)
Within 25 minutes of putting the buy and sell order up I had the first bite, 10 minutes after that I sold all the units I had set on the sell order.
Easiest way to offload badly moving stock without taking a loss.
This wins, because even though it's not a question, it's still the best post. Now... think about how to make this technique even better.
You fishing for techniques too?
Ok here is another freebie...
to add another level to this 'manipulation' you set another buy order for the same item at say 200 isk per unit, at approximately the volume you are selling with no minimum quantity.
When the buyer purchases your stock and attempts to resell, the system automatically bypasses the larger buy order you set since they will not have the minimum quantity and sells to your lower buy order instead.
99% of the time the trader will not see this and do the transaction.
Result - You just sold your stock for 275pu isk then bought it back again pretty much immediately for 200pu isk.
Basically, free, easy ISK.
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