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Chalrynn Illyndar
Lightspeed Enterprises Burning Horizons
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Posted - 2008.09.23 18:26:00 -
[1]
A few discussions have popped up recently about the new player limit being placed on Jita and possibility for abuse by certain entities. This would go well beyond ganking some miners in the effects on the economy, and would really result in some major grief for people based in Jita effectively having their assets locked down.
I'm mainly curious how well the other trade hubs/nearby regional markets would be able to cope with something like this. How much gets bought up quickly as people purchase at them instead of Jita, how quickly manufacturers are able to meet the increased demand, and also how long the mineral stocks hold out and get replenished.
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iskopoly
Amarr Royal Amarr Institute
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Posted - 2008.09.23 18:34:00 -
[2]
Edited by: iskopoly on 23/09/2008 18:34:20 my thoughts. in the big picture jita will be a drop in the bucket. i predict a steady exodus from jita. jita could be replaced, i don't think it will have any huge impact on the economy though, except on huge bulk buyers.
i personally always try to avoid jita
i also don't think people will be griefed from their assets in jita, at least not long as it would get people into big trouble. . It is all about the ISK
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SencneS
Amarr Rebellion Against big Irreversible Dinks
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Posted - 2008.09.23 18:47:00 -
[3]
Edited by: SencneS on 23/09/2008 18:47:51
Originally by: SencneS I post the following as an Individual and not a representative of EBANK, BSA, either of the organization's members or their affiliates.
Virtually no impact...
I don't need to be in Jita to do business. I can be anywhere within The Forge and place, buy and sell orders, Use contracts to get items in and out of Jita..
If I'm doing 1,000 others are also doing it, so I doubt it will have much impact if any at all.
Edit:- Rephrase/Correction.
Amarr for Life |
Jacob Mei
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Posted - 2008.09.23 19:13:00 -
[4]
Though I doubt my opinion matters much in this area of the Eve forums I thought id give my opinion on the matter.
I think that if Jita regularly fills to capacity that some merchants will eventually start dropping sell orders in the surrounding systems. I doubt that regular mechants will start heading to the other trade hubs, as much as I personally would like to see the other trade hubs matter more in the grand scheme of things.
-------------------------------- To borrow a phrase:
Players who post are like stars, there are bright ones and those who are dim.
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Chalrynn Illyndar
Lightspeed Enterprises Burning Horizons
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Posted - 2008.09.23 20:31:00 -
[5]
Sorry after rereading the post I apparently left out the key detail I was talking about in rewriting part of the OP. The OP has been edited to reflect it.
I'm not talking about Jita filling to capacity by normally meeting the 1200 player cap. I mean if large entities intentionally swarm Jita to rapidly fill it (Say immediately after downtime) thus locking down the system and its assets. Certain entities in the game definitely have the players to accomplish it, and especially one certain entity likes to cause grief for people and this would be the perfect way.
Contracts would be useless as people wouldn't be able to get into Jita.
Originally by: iskopoly Edited by: iskopoly on 23/09/2008 18:34:20 my thoughts. in the big picture jita will be a drop in the bucket. i predict a steady exodus from jita. jita could be replaced, i don't think it will have any huge impact on the economy though, except on huge bulk buyers.
i personally always try to avoid jita
i also don't think people will be griefed from their assets in jita, at least not long as it would get people into big trouble.
There would be no time for an Exodus from Jita, as the possibility for locking the system within minutes of the system coming up after downtime is there.
Griefing of assets would be interesting, since I'm sure more than a few people can vouch for having assets stuck in 0.0 outposts they can't access. There has been no precedent so there is no rule about this, and the new restrictions are vulnerable to abuse.
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Sum SungBong
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Posted - 2008.09.23 21:57:00 -
[6]
... ok, i am assuming you mean Goons doing this...
lets say they try... they would be able to do it for MAYBE a day... a weekend at the most, then everoyne would get bored of having an account that can do nothing but stay in jita for the entire day...
plus, imagin what its like when people try to log into a system with 600 people for a fight... if gs tried to do amass login on 1200 accounts into jita at once, it'd blow up iceland :)
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Treelox
Amarr Market Jihadist Revolutionary Party
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Posted - 2008.09.23 22:26:00 -
[7]
If it was done intentionally, and CCP had some sort of proof of that. It would be a possible bannable offense for all who particapated.
That said I sure hope that goonswarm attempts this. :) --
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Market Garden
Operation Market Garden
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Posted - 2008.09.23 22:47:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Treelox If it was done intentionally, and CCP had some sort of proof of that. It would be a possible bannable offense for all who particapated.
That said I sure hope that goonswarm attempts this. :)
QFT.
Intentionally trying to disrupt the server = Ban.
If Jita is limited then people will move orders out to an connecting system.
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Kwint Sommer
Caldari XERCORE
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Posted - 2008.09.23 23:06:00 -
[9]
They've increased the capacity of Jita substantially so if anything we'll see even more business there.
As far as people intentionally packing into Jita to trigger the cap. They'd need a hell of a lot to actually hit 1400 and at that point it would be very obvious and a fair number would get a short ban at least ensuring that they don't try it again. So, it's a pretty trivial concern.
So in summary, I'll say what I've said the last "OMG Jita is gona die" threads, little if anything will change.
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Lucas Avignon
Avignon Associates Inc.
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Posted - 2008.09.23 23:10:00 -
[10]
Why do people post these stupid topics, 1 year ago the online server population was very close to what it is today. 1 year ago you couldn't fit 600 people into Jita.
Now however they have capped the system at 1200 and you can fit 1200 people in Jita, now please explain your great logic and reasoning as to why only now when you can fit more than double the people in Jita that someone can magically abuse this new limit and lock everyone out.
Oh wai... because back then it was a hardware limit and now it's a software limit.
"Simply by having 1200 characters on standby", look how stupid you look, [irony]very simple that[/irony], wts clue.
If this was so simple, why didn't some entity do it a year ago when you needed less than half the characters you need now or two years ago when you needed well less than a third of what you need now?
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Devian 666
Igneus Auctorita GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.09.24 00:14:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Lucas Avignon Why do people post these stupid topics, 1 year ago the online server population was very close to what it is today. 1 year ago you couldn't fit 600 people into Jita.
Now however they have capped the system at 1200 and you can fit 1200 people in Jita, now please explain your great logic and reasoning as to why only now when you can fit more than double the people in Jita that someone can magically abuse this new limit and lock everyone out.
Oh wai... because back then it was a hardware limit and now it's a software limit.
"Simply by having 1200 characters on standby", look how stupid you look, [irony]very simple that[/irony], wts clue.
If this was so simple, why didn't some entity do it a year ago when you needed less than half the characters you need now or two years ago when you needed well less than a third of what you need now?
This pretty much sums it up. Jita is having a hard cap put on, not because of any one entity's actions but because of the muppets who think being in Jita is important.
Going to Jita during peak times is self-griefing. If only people could be banned for that.
http://obeythekitten.com/ |
Ricdics
Tleilex Developments
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Posted - 2008.09.24 01:34:00 -
[12]
Even if this were to occur and system entry was locked out due to 1200 sellers locking up the system it wouldn't work as you are restricting other sellers but more importantly your buyers can't get into system to purchase their products.
So, won't work |
Chalrynn Illyndar
Lightspeed Enterprises Burning Horizons
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Posted - 2008.09.24 01:36:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Lucas Avignon Why do people post these stupid topics, 1 year ago the online server population was very close to what it is today. 1 year ago you couldn't fit 600 people into Jita.
Now however they have capped the system at 1200 and you can fit 1200 people in Jita, now please explain your great logic and reasoning as to why only now when you can fit more than double the people in Jita that someone can magically abuse this new limit and lock everyone out.
Oh wai... because back then it was a hardware limit and now it's a software limit.
"Simply by having 1200 characters on standby", look how stupid you look, [irony]very simple that[/irony], wts clue.
If this was so simple, why didn't some entity do it a year ago when you needed less than half the characters you need now or two years ago when you needed well less than a third of what you need now?
You seem to be the stupid one.
Why? Because now instead of hundreds of people sitting there looking at a black screen and filing petitions, they get a "Sorry system is full try again later". This prevents people from possibly loading the system. This creates a situation where Jita is locked completely cutting off access to all of the assets. And yes, I'm talking about goons, they have enough of a penchant for griefing that I wouldn't be surprised that they did it.
The point of the post was to how big of an impact it could cause due to the volume of trade. Nearby regional markets, and the other trade hubs would not be able to sustain the market for long. The amount of goods sitting in Jita, The amount of minerals sitting in Jita, and the amount of assets people have sitting in Jita. Having that amount of goods suddenly taken out of the economy would have a pretty good effect on the economy.
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ISpam
OHHAYGUYS
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Posted - 2008.09.24 01:37:00 -
[14]
most people to ever be in 1 system at one time was 3k plus.
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Chalrynn Illyndar
Lightspeed Enterprises Burning Horizons
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Posted - 2008.09.24 01:39:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Ricdics Even if this were to occur and system entry was locked out due to 1200 sellers locking up the system it wouldn't work as you are restricting other sellers but more importantly your buyers can't get into system to purchase their products.
So, won't work
But can the supply at other hubs handle the increased demand? For some things Supply suddenly drops to almost zero (Faction/officer mods for example) since they're stuck sitting in Jita with no one able to move them.
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Lucas Avignon
Avignon Associates Inc.
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Posted - 2008.09.24 02:38:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Chalrynn Illyndar
Why? Because now instead of hundreds of people sitting there looking at a black screen and filing petitions, they get a "Sorry system is full try again later".
How is staring at a blank screen better than getting a "sorry system is full message"? It's not, before people (silly people) would stay at the blank screen for hours in the hope of possibly loading the system. Now they know they won't get in and can file a stuck petition immediately and get moved to a nearby system within minutes. So instead of hundreds of people stuck at jumpin or login screens we move to a situation where no one is stuck, seeing as the jita node can now handle up to 1200 players, only at very high peak times will people not be able to jump in or log in till someone leaves the system. Which is much better than having "hundreds of people sitting there looking at a black screen and filing petitions"
Originally by: Chalrynn Illyndar
This prevents people from possibly loading the system. This creates a situation where Jita is locked completely cutting off access to all of the assets.
The way Jita used to work at peak times as you said yourself hundreds of people got stuck at login/jumpin screens and could do nothing unless they filed a stuck petition out of game, that also created a situation where Jita was locked completely and cut of access to your assets, this used to happen at 600, now it happens at 1200 or 1400 if one of the above posters is correct, so yeah now we are completely screwed.
Originally by: Chalrynn Illyndar
And yes, I'm talking about goons, they have enough of a penchant for griefing that I wouldn't be surprised that they did it.
If you had bothered to read my original post then you would realise that if goons were going to do it, then they would have done it 1 or 2 years ago when they would have only needed between 400 and 600 characters, now they would need 1200 or 1400, so basically before ccp introduced this new cap and new architecture to Jita, it was much easier to lock people out, now it's actually much harder as you need 40%/50% more characters than last week, so basically your scaremongering and talking complete BS.
Originally by: Chalrynn Illyndar
The point of the post was to how big of an impact it could cause due to the volume of trade. Nearby regional markets, and the other trade hubs would not be able to sustain the market for long. The amount of goods sitting in Jita, The amount of minerals sitting in Jita, and the amount of assets people have sitting in Jita. Having that amount of goods suddenly taken out of the economy would have a pretty good effect on the economy.
But you completely ignored the fact that twice as many people can trade/buy in Jita than before, so basically Jita as a trade hub will see incredible growth over the next few months as buyers find it easier to go there and buy stuff even at peak times.
Originally by: CCP Prism X Yeah, and while we're at it we can create a controlled environment around account hacking and credit card fraud and all the other EULA breaches..
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CornerStoner
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Posted - 2008.09.24 02:42:00 -
[17]
Your entire theory (based on fantasies, delusions and ignorance IMO) would require Jita to be "locked down" perpetually. Obviously this won't happen.
For the sake of argument letĘs say some terribly bored and myopic group perpetuates a lock down of Jita. So what? ArenĘt there other systems nearby? Perimeter and Sobaseki to name just 2. Any dynamic economy adapts. Quickly in EVE. All the minerals in EVE could be in JitaądoesnĘt matter. The belts will respawnąJust like always. Granted, a spike in prices would be seen, but it would level out sooner or later.
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Juliette Leblanc
Gallente Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2008.09.24 02:46:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Chalrynn Illyndar But can the supply at other hubs handle the increased demand? For some things Supply suddenly drops to almost zero (Faction/officer mods for example) since they're stuck sitting in Jita with no one able to move them.
The other systems will see increased demand, but also an equivalent increased offer. If Jita is locked up items cannot exit Jita but also cannot enter. Therefore all new drops will end up somewhere else.
Do you think the overall "in Jita items stock" is constant? Growing? Shrinking? If it's shrinking than what you say is correct, but it'll eventually be in any case as it cannot shrink past depletion. If it's growing or constant, then supply to jita is higher or equal to demand from jita, and the supply will go to other systems as well as the demand. No big problem.
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Devian 666
Igneus Auctorita GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.09.24 03:58:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Chalrynn Illyndar And yes, I'm talking about goons, they have enough of a penchant for griefing that I wouldn't be surprised that they did it.
This sounds a lot like a request, or maybe a self-fulfilling prophecy.
Do you really think 1200 people with ADD would be able to sit in Jita 23/7?
tl;dr version: you are dumb.
http://obeythekitten.com/ |
Stahlregen
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.09.24 04:49:00 -
[20]
Totally digging everyone in this thread brainstorming ways to bring down jita before making some offhand remarks about how goons would definitely be the dastardly fellows to go through with it.
Sooo dumb so so dumb
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Confuzer
Polaris Project Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2008.09.24 11:14:00 -
[21]
1) Lock down Jita 2) Producers can't drop their stuff there 3) They seek alternative, like Rens 4) Everybody goes to Rens
Or any other hub like Rens. It is not that I have a market monopoly in Rens, lock down Jita, and have no cheap products incomming in Rens originally meant for Jita. Also, to have so many accounts blocking Jita, is to devide the profit on alllll these chars, so that's 1 mil a person :P
No, this will not happen. ----------------- Destiny is not a matter of chance. It is a matter of choice. It's not a thing to be waited for - it is a thing to be achieved. |
Ki Shodan
Gallente deep blue
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Posted - 2008.09.24 13:52:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Ki Shodan on 24/09/2008 13:54:41 As I understand the philosophy of the Goon Swarm, it would be not in their interest to lock down Jita, since it is too much effort. Goons want to make anybodies game experience miserable with the least effort, or to put it in a more positve way: "What are you moaning about your lost ship? It's only a game, dude!"
Locking down Jita is a waste of time. Jita is the biggest hub in EVE, but it is not the only one. If Jita were to be locked down over a longer period of time, it would only be a spike in the overall market history nothing more. You might see the impact, if you only take a look at The Forge, but not if you look at all empire regions together. Jita is BIG, but not as big as you paint it.
So assembling 1200 accounts to black out 50 traders, which might need to be in Jita with their chars to do their stuff, is quite an overkill even for goons. You never get 1200 accounts to log on coordinated after downtime! How many people are in the right timezone, are at home to do that in time. And how many are not there, because mommy wants them to take out the trash and so on. It ain't going to happen. Maybe we hit another hardware- or playerlimit someday, but not soon(tm) and not as some kind of a silly goon game. --
Evemail me, if my name is used as guarantor! |
Block Ukx
Block Ships and Ammunitions
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Posted - 2008.09.24 14:38:00 -
[23]
You donĘt need to bring 1,200 players to lock it down, probably less than 500 during peak hours. So, what do you do sitting in system with nothing to do? Go shopping. It would be like going to the mall during xmas. Long lines to enter the system, but I predict the end result is sales up 20%.
BSAC Mineral Market Manipulation (MinMa) Information Desk |
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