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KosmicSniper
Amarr
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2008.09.27 06:05:00 -
[1]
ok this is my fifth account and once again im staring into the abyss of learning skills tbh i think it's time we did away with them all together but i would like to propose the following solution
1 ) all new chars get there stats maxed with whatever they would be if they were maxed out
2 ) all existing chars get there stats maxed the same way
3 ) all skillpoints invested in learning skill previous to the change be reimbursed to the player . as credits toward training to be spent how and when the player see's fit , so for example i you have 2.5 million sp's in learning you get 2.5 million sps to "spend" however you see fit whether it's battle ships five or whatever skill you want or you can hold onto them and spend them at a later date .
so think about it you get free training dpending on what youv'e already spent on learning , if you spent two months on learning , you get all those skillpoint back in somewhere more usefull .
i feel this is a simple and fair solution
yay/nay?
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KosmicSniper
Amarr
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2008.09.27 06:05:00 -
[2]
ok this is my fifth account and once again im staring into the abyss of learning skills tbh i think it's time we did away with them all together but i would like to propose the following solution
1 ) all new chars get there stats maxed with whatever they would be if they were maxed out
2 ) all existing chars get there stats maxed the same way
3 ) all skillpoints invested in learning skill previous to the change be reimbursed to the player . as credits toward training to be spent how and when the player see's fit , so for example i you have 2.5 million sp's in learning you get 2.5 million sps to "spend" however you see fit whether it's battle ships five or whatever skill you want or you can hold onto them and spend them at a later date .
so think about it you get free training dpending on what youv'e already spent on learning , if you spent two months on learning , you get all those skillpoint back in somewhere more usefull .
i feel this is a simple and fair solution
yay/nay?
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Malcanis
RuffRyders
Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2008.09.27 06:35:00 -
[3]
I've kind of gone off flying Caldari cruisers. Can I get the SP for that reimbursed too?
Also, I believe that Navigation and Evasive maneuvering to V are effectively mandatory skills for any ship, so I think we should remove them and just make all ships 25% faster & more agile.
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KosmicSniper
Amarr
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2008.09.27 06:41:00 -
[4]
or you could troll threads for attention
removing skills you trained for your own purposes no , removing skills that are a barrier to being able to play the game yes
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Treelox
Amarr
Market Jihadist Revolutionary Party
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Posted - 2008.09.27 06:54:00 -
[5]
no
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Malcanis
RuffRyders
Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2008.09.27 06:56:00 -
[6]
CCP effectively already pre-compensate you for taking learning skills to 4+4. At that point, you're already learning at ~90% of the rate of a character with 5+5 learnings. If you want to specialise and get that last 10% then, as with everything else in EvE, you have to pay. And as with everything else, you get to choose between a quick payoff and a long term reward. You don't have to train learning skills. I certainly agree that it's a very good idea to train them, but I think it's an equally good idea to train evasive V too. Bluntly, that 10% margin is less than the variance between having good and mediocre stats, between having the patience and intelligence to work the good ways at ISK making vs the dumb grindy ways and consequently having the ISK to use +5s.
To put it another way: getting learning skills to 5+4 (which is what most "veteran" players have costs about the same as taking a single large turret spec from IV to V to get that last 2%.
In essence you want to give everyone millions of free SP for no other reason that they're in a skill which you really want but don't want to spend training time.
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Elhina Novae
Sky's Edge
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Posted - 2008.09.27 08:37:00 -
[7]
Just remove the damn learning skills. It hinders new players, and no reimbursement for those that have already trained all learning skills.
1. Remove Learning skills.
2. Add +11 Attributes too all toons
3. More noobs will learn to enjoy the game quicker??
------------
 Originally by: Boz Well
Originally by: SurrenderMonkey
...
There's an Amarr problem?
Nothing that can't be solved by more Minmatar nerfs.
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.09.27 09:50:00 -
[8]
Total removal seem excessive. Removing the tier 1 skills and adding 5 to all stats (with some form of compensation for players that have already trained the skills) will seem reasonable. It will probably reduce the number of players that will start the game and then abandon at the prospect of a month of almost mandatory training for the learning skills before leaning how addictive EVE can be  .
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Drake Draconis
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Posted - 2008.09.27 16:33:00 -
[9]
Is it just me or people don't like to wait for anything anymore.
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Malcanis
RuffRyders
Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2008.09.27 21:41:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Elhina Novae
Just remove the damn learning skills. It hinders new players, and no reimbursement for those that have already trained all learning skills.
1. Remove Learning skills.
2. Add +11 Attributes too all toons
3. More noobs will learn to enjoy the game quicker??
4. Alts become vastly more powerful, especially disposable trial alts
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DEATHsyphon
Gallente
IDLE GUNS
IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2008.09.27 22:00:00 -
[11]
No macro miner you can not fly hulks on trail accounts!
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I'm not not going to pod you! |
Opertone
Caldari
SIEGE.
United Legion
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Posted - 2008.09.29 11:38:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Malcanis
CCP effectively already pre-compensate you for taking learning skills to 4+4. At that point, you're already learning at ~90% of the rate of a character with 5+5 learnings. If you want to specialise and get that last 10% then, as with everything else in EvE, you have to pay. And as with everything else, you get to choose between a quick payoff and a long term reward. You don't have to train learning skills. I certainly agree that it's a very good idea to train them, but I think it's an equally good idea to train evasive V too. Bluntly, that 10% margin is less than the variance between having good and mediocre stats, between having the patience and intelligence to work the good ways at ISK making vs the dumb grindy ways and consequently having the ISK to use +5s.
To put it another way: getting learning skills to 5+4 (which is what most "veteran" players have costs about the same as taking a single large turret spec from IV to V to get that last 2%.
In essence you want to give everyone millions of free SP for no other reason that they're in a skill which you really want but don't want to spend training time.
he said it good, no need to remove learning skills
alts do not worry me, but new players don't have the isk anyway, so the process of skilling up and making money is more gradual than if you had maximum attributes...
it is fun to make your own toon and get into top level on your own, there is no need to remove this 'climbing ladder' experience
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Malcanis
RuffRyders
Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2008.09.29 11:46:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Opertone
Originally by: Malcanis
CCP effectively already pre-compensate you for taking learning skills to 4+4. At that point, you're already learning at ~90% of the rate of a character with 5+5 learnings. If you want to specialise and get that last 10% then, as with everything else in EvE, you have to pay. And as with everything else, you get to choose between a quick payoff and a long term reward. You don't have to train learning skills. I certainly agree that it's a very good idea to train them, but I think it's an equally good idea to train evasive V too. Bluntly, that 10% margin is less than the variance between having good and mediocre stats, between having the patience and intelligence to work the good ways at ISK making vs the dumb grindy ways and consequently having the ISK to use +5s.
To put it another way: getting learning skills to 5+4 (which is what most "veteran" players have costs about the same as taking a single large turret spec from IV to V to get that last 2%.
In essence you want to give everyone millions of free SP for no other reason that they're in a skill which you really want but don't want to spend training time.
he said it good, no need to remove learning skills
alts do not worry me, but new players don't have the isk anyway, so the process of skilling up and making money is more gradual than if you had maximum attributes...
it is fun to make your own toon and get into top level on your own, there is no need to remove this 'climbing ladder' experience
Incidentally, whenever you see "I demand 'x' change to help new players" you can be pretty sure that the proponent is an experienced player who is fully aware that change 'x' will benefit him far more than new players. It's EvE's equivalent of "Won't somebody PLEASE think of the children!"
The real beneficiaries of new characters starting out with 5.5M free SP in free learning skills will be experienced players who want quick cyno alts, quick scout alts, quick market alts, quick hauler alts, quick tackler alts, quick salvage alts, quick R&D alts and quick FW alts.
Resulting in a further huge encroachment on all the niches currently open to new players to actually play the game as a multiplayer experience.
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Jin Labarre
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Posted - 2008.09.29 12:48:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Jin Labarre on 29/09/2008 12:51:22
I hate the learning skills, because they are conceptually wrong.
What the learning skills do is favour players who don't play and players who use multiple accounts. This may sound strange first, but look at it closely. The learning skills are most useful, the sooner you train them. So the best effect is received by training them right from the beginning, instead of starting to play the game. New players don't want to train stuff that makes them train other stuff better, which will give them more bonus to train real stuff eventually.
Effectively, the best thing you can currently do, if you start playing EVE, is to get an account, have it train up the learning skills and only then start to play the game. This is stupid and doesn't motivate new players.
On the other hand, secondary account alt characters are overly boosted by the learning skills, because someone who already has a character can afford to have his secondary char train nothing but learning skills in exactly the right order of skills for maximum effect. That is both lame and unfair.
So in my opinion, the current system does not favor new players. It favors experienced players. Massively. Any specialized secondary character gets where he is supposed to go almost two times as fast as any new player would get.
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Herschel Yamamoto
Bloodmoney Incorporated
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Posted - 2008.09.29 13:03:00 -
[15]
Originally by: KosmicSniper
or you could troll threads for attention
removing skills you trained for your own purposes no , removing skills that are a barrier to being able to play the game yes
So faster skill training isn't your own purpose?
Originally by: Jin Labarre
I hate the learning skills, because they are conceptually wrong.
What the learning skills do is favour players who don't play and players who use multiple accounts. This may sound strange first, but look at it closely. The learning skills are most useful, the sooner you train them. So the best effect is received by training them right from the beginning, instead of starting to play the game. New players don't want to train stuff that makes them train other stuff better, which will give them more bonus to train real stuff eventually.
Effectively, the best thing you can currently do, if you start playing EVE, is to get an account, have it train up the learning skills and only then start to play the game. This is stupid and doesn't motivate new players.
On the other hand, secondary account alt characters are overly boosted by the learning skills, because someone who already has a character can afford to have his secondary char train nothing but learning skills in exactly the right order of skills for maximum effect. That is both lame and unfair.
So in my opinion, the current system does not favor new players. It favors experienced players. Massively. Any specialized secondary character gets where he is supposed to go almost two times as fast as any new player would get.
Just because people with something else to do can use them a bit faster doesn't make them horribly unfair. A proper interspersing of learning skills with real skills will result in you being down a few hundred thousand SP at most over the course of months, in exchange for being able to play the game. And the wonderful thing about it is, you can choose which you prefer. Effectively giving alt accounts a free few days of play is hardly broken - compare it to Power of Two, which effectively gives them months of free play time.
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Fix the forums! |
Odetta Harpy
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Posted - 2008.09.29 16:44:00 -
[16]
I wasnt sure at first if i wanted to continue to play eve when i got my first trial account because it takes so long to get anywhere (especialy turrets grrr) so i gave up for abit.
Then i got a second account and trained the learning skills almost strait away and actualy started to get somewhere (exept turrets grrrr) if you could actualy train some decent skills strait away then more noobs will play the game.
Just make sure more of the specialised skills are blocked so you dont have people spamming trial accounts, like they've blocked industry ships.
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Dark Soldat
Caldari
Skyforger
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Posted - 2008.09.29 18:13:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Dark Soldat on 29/09/2008 18:13:38
Well if all of them so called newb`s want no learnings sure... but all learnings to V give you +10 atribute(+learning it self) that ads up to about 11 on each atribute.. hey ive got an idea... +11 TO ALL TOONS and throw out the learnings the oldy moldys will be happy the new ones will be happy... im happy 
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Opertone
Caldari
SIEGE.
United Legion
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Posted - 2008.09.29 18:37:00 -
[18]
in my early days I didn't have the advanced learning skills or the money to get them, my corporation didn't pay fro the advanced skills which altogether cost around 22 million, when a new player rolls a new character he should not be worrying about 'power leveling', but rather find the aspects which he can enjoy in eve, be it wealth making, socializing or the advance and complexity of the game.
a real specialist toon only takes one attribute pair to the 5/5/5, beginners can do well with 4/0/0 and when they can they get 4/3/3, normally couple months from the start, when they realize that skill path they choice is what they like, they further develop the character to 5/4/4, it can happen on month 6 to 12. |
Ling Lui
Minmatar
Lucretia Seven
Nihil-Obstat
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:37:00 -
[19]
Hey, let's get rid of 12 years of school and give everyone diplomas..
Seriously tho, if you think learning skills are hindering you from playing EVE, you're obviously not playing it right. Anyone who has a new character and knows exactly what they want is definitely not a newb.
While learning the learning skills, a newb can learn build on the skills he/she learned from the tutorial, while building up a path to get future skills faster. Think about it, what does a brand new character need before ANYTHING else? ISK.
Whenever I recruit new players to the game, I tell them to learn the learning skills first and foremost while they mine roids to gain money before they decide exactly what they want their character be. That's what I believe the learning skills are there for. To give the character time to decide before they dump their hard earned ISK into random skills that won't benefit them.
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islador
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Posted - 2008.10.14 05:37:00 -
[20]
hell no. Profanity needed to express hatred of idea. This is a horrible idea. The skills are ballanced and fair, and in all honesty, i LIKE the fact that most noobs ***** and moan and leave because of the learning skills. EVE is and always has been a place for determined, patient players. by removing the learning skills you would undermine the basis for EVE's strong footing as the biggest (virtually) and baddest MMO on the planet. Thats like making it so you can't kill players who are on trial, it defeats the damned purpose! Don't edit the skills system. EVER. *looks for negative support button*
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