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CCP, please update the TOS and the knowledge base article

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Henry Haphorn Aliastra Gallente Federation 275	Posted - 2012.03.29 15:02:00 - [1] - Quote I just did a search. http://community.eveonline.com/pnp/terms.asp http://community.eveonline.com/pnp/eula.asp I guess CCP made changes to the TOS and EULA because I can't even find the words gank, griefing, grief, etc. but I did find a vague reference to "anti-social" behavior that doesn't seem to define what constitutes as "anti-social" behavior. However, I did find references to griefers in this link: http://support.eveonline.com/Pages/KB/Article.aspx?id=336 It seems that CCP may have to change this also considering that most of the players here in engage in griefing but not in the sense that we harass the same player over and over. People in this game gank for profit by salvaging wrecks or to corner a local market, gank anyone they see flying a certain ship, which is a lot, etc. yet CCP doesn't ban those people. There are even killboards filled with people brandishing their Hulk/Mackinaw/Orca kills like they are medals of honor. This implies that CCP allows certain types of griefing that doesn't result in the harassment of a player while they do punish those who do harass the same player. So... Dear CCP, please update the knowledge base article as well as the TOS regarding the what kind of griefing is allowed and how constitutes as anti-social behavior. Welcome to Eve Online. Don't expect people to be nice to you.
Lady Spank Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED 1991	Posted - 2012.03.29 15:03:00 - [2] - Quote Griefing is not allowed in Eve online. Your definition of griefing is wrong. (a¦á_a¦â) ~ http://getoutnastyface.blogspot.com/ ~ (a¦á_a¦â)
Grumpy Owly 444	Posted - 2012.03.29 15:04:00 - [3] - Quote IBTL for duplicate thread content. Bounty Hunting for CSM7 It's just criminal - Smuggling
masternerdguy Inner Shadow NightSong Directorate 79	Posted - 2012.03.29 15:05:00 - [4] - Quote CCP is once again dumbing eve down. Things are only impossible until they are not.
Grumpy Owly 444	Posted - 2012.03.29 15:08:00 - [5] - Quote masternerdguy wrote: CCP is once again dumbing eve down. Don't agree. Would suggest your presence is helping however. Bounty Hunting for CSM7 It's just criminal - Smuggling
Katja Faith Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 1	Posted - 2012.03.29 15:08:00 - [6] - Quote It was made intentionally vague in light of "Mittens" recent behaviour that CCP knows people will be referencing given the swarm (no pun intended) of anti-bullying press the western world has been seeing lately. CCP is, once again, covering it's arse rather than doing the right thing.
Ammzi Imperial Guardians The Aurora Shadow 933	Posted - 2012.03.29 15:08:00 - [7] - Quote CCP even put griefing in citation marks in the devblog, did you think as to why they did that? quote CCP Spitfire "Hello Im Blue,"
Henry Haphorn Aliastra Gallente Federation 275	Posted - 2012.03.29 15:08:00 - [8] - Quote This is not a duplicate thread and this is in no way meant to imply that ganking is considered greifing. I'm just asking CCP to please update the TOS and the KB article so that players here, especially the WoW newbies coming in, won't confuse ganking with griefing or harassment in a lot of cases. I'm not trolling. Welcome to Eve Online. Don't expect people to be nice to you.
Lady Spank Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED 1993	Posted - 2012.03.29 15:12:00 - [9] - Quote Maybe you should just learn to read and interpret information more accurately; then thrill yourself. (a¦á_a¦â) ~ http://getoutnastyface.blogspot.com/ ~ (a¦á_a¦â)
Henry Haphorn Aliastra Gallente Federation 275	Posted - 2012.03.29 15:13:00 - [10] - Quote Lady Spank wrote: Maybe you should just learn to read and interpret information more accurately; then thrill yourself. I'm not thrilling myself. I'm just asking CCP to make themselves clear. That doesn't mean I'm getting a thrill out of this. Where the hell did you read that? PS: I edited my OP to correct some things. Welcome to Eve Online. Don't expect people to be nice to you.
Grumpy Owly 444	Posted - 2012.03.29 15:15:00 - [11] - Quote Henry Haphorn wrote: This is not a duplicate thread and this is in no way meant to imply that ganking is considered greifing. I'm just asking CCP to please update the TOS and the KB article so that players here, especially the WoW newbies coming in, won't confuse ganking with griefing or harassment in a lot of cases. I'm not trolling. Much like this thread then Bounty Hunting for CSM7 It's just criminal - Smuggling
Henry Haphorn Aliastra Gallente Federation 275	Posted - 2012.03.29 15:19:00 - [12] - Quote Grumpy Owly wrote: Henry Haphorn wrote: This is not a duplicate thread and this is in no way meant to imply that ganking is considered greifing. I'm just asking CCP to please update the TOS and the KB article so that players here, especially the WoW newbies coming in, won't confuse ganking with griefing or harassment in a lot of cases. I'm not trolling. Much like this thread then Looks like someone beat me to it. Still, this is just a request to CCP to update the official info so as to better coincide with the harsh culture of eve while still making a clear boundary as to what is and what is not considered griefing. Welcome to Eve Online. Don't expect people to be nice to you.
Henry Haphorn Aliastra Gallente Federation 275	Posted - 2012.03.29 15:28:00 - [13] - Quote Does anyone know who we should contact within CCP to address the issue of the lack of clarity of the TOS? Perhaps it's better for me to address this to CCP directly rather than post this kind of request on a forum. I mean, it does help posting this on a forum, but that would only be just the start in trying to address this issue. Welcome to Eve Online. Don't expect people to be nice to you.
Florestan Bronstein United Highsec Front The 99 Percent 494	Posted - 2012.03.29 15:34:00 - [14] - Quote Ammzi wrote: CCP even put griefing in citation marks in the devblog, did you think as to why they did that? because "to grief" is not in the OALD?
Doddy Excidium. Executive Outcomes 57	Posted - 2012.03.29 15:35:00 - [15] - Quote Surely people dont equate harm to their spacepixels to harm to their person? Surely not?
Doc Fury Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 610	Posted - 2012.03.29 15:37:00 - [16] - Quote Imma' just gonna leave this here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6Y4s7WbM3c The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'no.'
Henry Haphorn Aliastra Gallente Federation 275	Posted - 2012.03.29 15:39:00 - [17] - Quote Doc Fury wrote: Imma' just gonna leave this here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6Y4s7WbM3c Get over what? The fact that CCP failed to make themselves clear as to where certain boundaries lie? EDIT: I support ganking, just so you know. Welcome to Eve Online. Don't expect people to be nice to you.
Princess Bride Corripe Cervisiam Trade Consortium 357	Posted - 2012.03.29 15:43:00 - [18] - Quote So you edited out the part of your original post where you admit this is a duplicate thread but say you don't care? http://eveprincessbride.wordpress.com/
Henry Haphorn Aliastra Gallente Federation 275	Posted - 2012.03.29 15:53:00 - [19] - Quote Princess Bride wrote: So you edited out the part of your original post where you admit this is a duplicate thread but say you don't care? What? I edited the OP because of grammatical errors. Nowhere does it say that I admit that this was in intentional duplicate. But of course, you probably won't believe me anyways, would you? Welcome to Eve Online. Don't expect people to be nice to you.
Henry Haphorn Aliastra Gallente Federation 275	Posted - 2012.03.29 16:06:00 - [20] - Quote After reading the duplicate thread, I found that the GM that was referenced in the OP didn't make himself clear regarding the issue of when a gank is considered griefing. Quote: What happens inside the The Magic Circle is allowed as long as it abides by the rules of The Magic Circle (this is why you are allowed to hit someone in a boxing match, but not outside the ring). However, as soon as any action steps outside The Magic Circle and threatens harm to anyone in real life in any way shape or form, or when you incite others to do so (or when your in game actions are specifically geared towards that, joke or no joke), you break the EULA/ToS; even if you are only stating intent. That line is too vague. Even the "magic circle" has rules and regulations in it. But the line between ganks and griefs is still blurry. Of course, it also depends on what the OP in that similar thread said or asked to the GM to have the GM give that kind of vague response. EDIT: Never mind, I just read the bottom of the locked thread where the GM posted a link to the thread that is "not locked". I'll just continue my argument there instead of here. Sorry to bother you all. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1034909#post1034909 Dear GMs, please lock this thread. Thank you. Welcome to Eve Online. Don't expect people to be nice to you.

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