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Sodium Phosphate Gallente Killer Koalas Kingdom of Butan	Posted - 2008.09.30 01:40:00 - [31] Originally by: Abrazzar What I do wonder is where all the money went. Someone has to have it. So instead of using tax dollars, how about taking the money from those that profited from this whole fiasco? Then again 700 billion dollar sure will buy you a lot of political influence... BIG OIL DID IT!!!!!!!!!!!!111 BURN THEM!!!!111 BUUUURRRRNNNN!!! THEY TURNED ME INTO A NEWT!!!! I got better....
Irulan S'Dijana Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2008.09.30 02:11:00 - [32] Originally by: Abrazzar What I do wonder is where all the money went. Someone has to have it. So instead of using tax dollars, how about taking the money from those that profited from this whole fiasco? The homeowners profited from this fiasco. The money went out to home buyers in the form of cheap loans, often to people who wouldn't normally be given loans. When the housing boom went bust, the couldn't pay their mortgages back to the banks, and now the banks are going down. So no, it's not some conspiracy where a small group of people profited, the money was simply given away to mums and dad's of America when it shouldn't have been. A few people have profited, but only because they took a gamble and thought the bust was going to happen before it happened. E.g. a couple of hege funds made a few billion taking the best a few weeks before all this that the market would collapse. Of course, if they were wrong, they'd be in a world of pain.
Glarion Garnier Federal Defence Union	Posted - 2008.09.30 02:15:00 - [33] This http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqkECoEEp_Y and this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fgarmHl-5XE
Ademaro Imre Caldari Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2008.09.30 03:47:00 - [34] This is the beginning and soucre of the credit meltdown. The oversight agency to - oversee Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, warned Congress that there was trouble. Instead, the democrat members of congress, actually attacked them for fighting for tighter regulations for Freddie Mae and Fannie Mac, belittled him for trying to impede Fannie Mae and Freddie mac from their practices that led to the meltdown. The CURRENT chair of the House banking committee, says in this video of 2004 hearing, he see no evidence of any problem with the institution. It was lack of regulation, criminals in the government run Fred. Me and Fan. Mac that back all the loans they cooked the books to get, and total resistance to republican attempts to tighten regulation up. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MGT_cSi7Rs
goodby4u Valor Inc.	Posted - 2008.09.30 03:51:00 - [35] Originally by: The TX Originally by: goodby4u I plan on moving to iceland and have a direct feed into the server rooms. You'd move all the way to Iceland and run a cable all the way to London? Indeed I am, what are you suggesting I move to london? Because that place is a hell hole.
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2008.09.30 04:29:00 - [36] business have been acting stupid for too long, I look forward to wherever we are going. ps. I have been putting on a nice layer of fat to survive the dark months. pps. I am sad I haven't bought a gun yet, it seems like one would be useful.
Intense Thinker Minmatar	Posted - 2008.09.30 05:58:00 - [37] I am so happy I have no stocks right now
HankMurphy Minmatar Pelennor Enterprises	Posted - 2008.09.30 06:27:00 - [38] let it fall to the ground it sounds ignorant and shallow until you realize the only decision here is do we A) throw money at the people who caused the issue. effectively spending more money we dont have to try and give the economy the appearance that it is stable or B) refuse to bail out those that played chicken with the entire economy, allow the market to crash and then self correct. Everything that goes up must come down. Every economy like ours will have this happen from time to time. It's inevitable. Even the bail out wouldn't FIX the problem. It would just draw out the matter. The question is do we load the pockets of the rich with debt from the taxpayers before it happens. No, hell no. Anyone that blindly screams we must bail out wallstreet has to realize. There is no way to win here. It's a lose lose scenario. The only reason your picking the bailout option is either you stand to benefit (unlikely) or you believe the very people that caused this issue that are now screaming 'give us money or we are all doomed' (the same thing they ALWAYS say) You want a free market or socialism? Decide now. This happens in free markets, buck up. ------------------------------ everybody be cool this is a threadjack! just lay face down on the ground and no one will get hurt!
Seroquel	Posted - 2008.09.30 08:16:00 - [39] dude... the levels of fail in your post are astounding. do you even grasp the problem at hand? we're not bailing out 'those idiots' who got loans they never intended to pay back. we're bailing out the financial institutions that ended up with all these subprime loans so they don't go under. we're all going to be burden with this debt so our retirement funds don't go poof while these criminals are chuckling all the way to the bank in their u-haul truck filled with stuff stolen out of the houses they never had to pay for. Originally by: Megan Maynard Let the bastards burn. Serves them right for being idiots with their own money. I live in America and it's stupid to even fathom a government bailout like they were talking about. Spend it on other things, like prosecuting the morons misusing other peoples money like that. Having a couple insurance companies go under will teach those idiots who thought they could afford a 500000 dollar house on a 32000 a year income. I ain't paying for their stupidity.
HankMurphy Minmatar Pelennor Enterprises	Posted - 2008.09.30 09:42:00 - [40] Edited by: HankMurphy on 30/09/2008 09:55:04 Originally by: Seroquel dude... the levels of fail in your post are astounding. do you even grasp the problem at hand? we're not bailing out 'those idiots' who got loans they never intended to pay back. we're bailing out the financial institutions that ended up with all these subprime loans so they don't go under. we're all going to be burden with this debt so our retirement funds don't go poof while these criminals are chuckling all the way to the bank in their u-haul truck filled with stuff stolen out of the houses they never had to pay for. your correct. but understand that the institutions were the ones passing out loans they knew damn well many many people wouldn't be able to pay back AND they did it with government encouragement. (both Clinton and Bush, so leave the red and blue flags under your seats). It takes 2 to dance, the idiots that signed for the loans and the banks that gave the loans out share equally in the irresponsibility also, dont forget all those gambling on whether or not any of it was going to pan out in the end! (big part of the underlying instability. do a google search on "derivatives" and "financial WMDs" together) but you are right about who gets the money. however they are the ones that are going to make out in the long run too. as we are going to pay them all this money for the assets that are going to be worth jack all in 6 months time (guess who eats that shitcake too? yup, us). make no mistake, the heads of these institutions will laugh all the way to the bank with this 700billion (they wouldn't if we made provisions for that not to happen upon giving them the $$, but thats no longer the American way ) long post short, like i said before. bailout or no bailout we are screwed. even if we give them the money its a snowballs chance in hell of FIXING anything. We're just hoping it gives a bit of stability to the market -no guarantee it will fix anything (pretty much guarentee it won't) -no guarantee they wont need 3-4x what they are currently asking -no guarantee the taxpayer doesn't end up in debt and receiving a bunch of worthless assets in return i can understand those with retirements wanting the bailout. its an immediate risk for them those with retirement concerns need to understand those of us that dont want to be paying for this PLUS what we are already paying for for the next 60 years of our lives. if it was a question of good vs bad. they would have voted it today. but it's not. the vote wasn't borked over Pelosi's speech (which was terrible). Thats silly, the vote was borked because those that understand the situation have filled their representatives voice mailboxes screaming "dont you ***ing dare do that w/ our money!". Those representatives (same ones up for reelection in a month) are the ones voting nay to save their jobs. On the plus side, this is the first time i've really seen democracy at work, and by that i mean, representatives actually afraid for themselves knowing what their constituents want. (they want to bail out their fat cat friends, but not at the cost of their own jobs ) i find the whole thing fascinating and sickening but yeah, let it burn to the ground. (i'm relatively young, i got lots of time to rebuild my nest egg) i think the movie line was "When a forest grows too wild purging fire is natural and inevitable." a lot of people on both sides of the argument are very confused and need to research more. while there are those that do benefit by wanting the bailout (those with deep investments in the firms especially those standing to loose their retirements), we are ALL in this. We pay for it now with a crash and build ourselves back up OR we throw money at the problem (hoping praying and gambling that it helps a tiny bit) and pay for it for the next 100 years. either way. we pay. /2 sides to the same shit sandwich //another night bored at work ------------------------------ everybody be cool this is a threadjack! just lay face down on the ground and no one will get hurt!*
Tobias Sjodin Ore Mongers Black Hand.	Posted - 2008.09.30 10:02:00 - [41] I'm looking forward to an even cheaper dollar.
Valan The Fated	Posted - 2008.09.30 11:25:00 - [42] Originally by: Captain Hudson Originally by: Valan lol people have no idea I work for a London City trader and we've never had it so good. After the market plummets again tomorrow I'm gonna buy a bundle of shares and in two or three months rake 200% profit. The rich stay rich the only people that are getting shafted is the general public but they don't even realise it. The first bolded bit is obvious bullshit. Second bold bit - no one stays rich when the stock and banking systems crash, that is unless you own a safe full of gold ofcourse Well I'm ú800 up on a ú3000 private share deal already and I'm not even a trader lol I'm expecting it to drop when the US opens but I'm not planning on selling until the profit statements come out in a few months. Our profits are up. Our guys were in and trading early again this morning.
Jastra Gallente Black Thorne Corporation	Posted - 2008.09.30 12:07:00 - [43] Ironically doesnt the market depend on volatilty? - what do we have now ?
kor anon Amarr Sons Of The Fallen BROTHERS GRIM.	Posted - 2008.09.30 12:14:00 - [44] I hope its as bad as the media says (would be a first tbh) life has become rather dull recently.
Marisal	Posted - 2008.09.30 13:12:00 - [45] Edited by: Marisal on 30/09/2008 13:14:14 Read a good portion of the start, started chuckling at people thinking that this is only bad news for the "middle class" and fat cats of wall street. Simple fact to all those thinking that this is of no concern to you and its only the fat cats loosing cash, well to put it in simple terms, markets fall banks unable to raise funds banks reduce lending to sure themselves up or go under, in turn businesses can't get the loans needed to expand or secure that the payroll for its employee's this in turn leads to a contraction of the business IE Job Cuts who's been employed by these companies, YOU! Your unemployed unable to provide your custom to businesses further reducing their income causing more layoff's less cash in the system, meaning your benefits are gonna get squeezed. Tbh that bill needed to be passed yesterday to shore up things, people may think why should tax payers foot the bill for idiotic decisions further up the chain.... tbh in an ideal world they shouldn't but the tax payer is going to foot the bill either way regardless of whether a bail out plan is passed or not just with a bail out plan in place its a controlled bleed off from the tax payers rather than the haemorrhage of cash caused by an unemployment and tumbling market. I'll tell ya thought that bail out plan will get passed or America will start to utterly loose its economic superpower position to china, and there are alot of people that don't want to slip into second place. Tbh, this was expected for a while now though we've had an insanely long period of growth, so long that people had started to forget what recession and down turn was like, but its quite likely that another insanely long period of recession is likely to result from that insanely long boom.
Valan The Fated	Posted - 2008.09.30 13:56:00 - [46] To be honest the US is now buggered it's heading into a major downturn especially if they bail out doesn't go ahead. China is the new super power.
Lord Zoran House of Tempers	Posted - 2008.09.30 14:08:00 - [47] Originally by: HankMurphy let it fall to the ground that tbh, although it'll prolly effect me i generally don't give a fk as long as the business ppl are screwed.
Valan The Fated	Posted - 2008.09.30 14:20:00 - [48] lol thats what people are telling you they won't be screwed in its current form they're loaded it's everday Joe thats screwed. Namely you. But if it makes you feel happier thinking that go ahead thats how they shafted you in the first place. Lehmans went under and all the everday staff got dumped the traders and the execs got bought up and give new cushy numbers. The execs get big bonuses for staying on. The cleaner gets dumped in the street.
Havok Dryke The Scope	Posted - 2008.09.30 14:27:00 - [49] Wow. I`m on an exchange in Japan right now, and this morning something smelled funny. Apparently it was the sound of millions of bankers collectively shitting their pants from halfway around the world. Seriously though (I don@t understand economics), how would this affect Canada?
goodby4u Valor Inc.	Posted - 2008.09.30 14:42:00 - [50] WTF stuff isnt exploding, FALSE ADVERTISING! Btw, the bill was smacked down in congress and the DOW is actually up
Florio Federal Defence Union	Posted - 2008.09.30 15:27:00 - [51] Originally by: Lord Zoran ... i generally don't give a fk as long as the business ppl are screwed. I sympathise with your sentiment, but it does show your ignorance about how the world works. you want people who create jobs to be screwed? are you jealous of wealth creators? hopefully the current crisis will entice more people to learn about money and jobs and employment and economics.
Pwett Minmatar QUANT Corp. QUANT Hegemony	Posted - 2008.09.30 15:33:00 - [52] Originally by: Tobias Sjodin I'm looking forward to an even cheaper dollar. Ironically, (ignoring the complete failure of fiat) this can only make the dollar stronger. The worth of the dollar is directly tied to inflation and inflation is directly tied to the money supply. When large institutions go under, money simply vanishes. When money vanishes, there can not be inflation. There might not be deflation, but it is certainly disinflationary. Dollar was up in most major markets yesterday
Ademaro Imre Caldari Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2008.09.30 15:46:00 - [53] Originally by: Valan To be honest the US is now buggered it's heading into a major downturn especially if they bail out doesn't go ahead. China is the new super power. China's government will not come out ahead. China needs to find 20 million new jobs every year to pacify its growing population. With a global economy turning down, China's export economy will suffer badly. In fact, they are having trouble delivering fireworks.
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2008.09.30 16:38:00 - [54] Originally by: Abrazzar What I do wonder is where all the money went. Someone has to have it. Haven't you been paying attention on how banks loan, reloan and re-re-loan money ? 1 "real" dollar easily turns into 10 "virtual" dollars if you roll it enough and package it into loans, and turns into even more if you use the stuff bought with money that didn't exist in the first place to secure even more loans and so on and so forth. So, NO, the money went nowhere. It didn't actually exist in the first place _ SHOPS \|\| Mission rewards revamp \|\| better nanofix
kor anon Amarr Sons Of The Fallen BROTHERS GRIM.	Posted - 2008.09.30 16:52:00 - [55] Originally by: Akita T Originally by: Abrazzar What I do wonder is where all the money went. Someone has to have it. Haven't you been paying attention on how banks loan, reloan and re-re-loan money ? 1 "real" dollar easily turns into 10 "virtual" dollars if you roll it enough and package it into loans, and turns into even more if you use the stuff bought with money that didn't exist in the first place to secure even more loans and so on and so forth. So, NO, the money went nowhere. It didn't actually exist in the first place I think some sneaky bank worker should just add a few 0's onto the banking figures just to sort everything out would be funny if it worked
Cmdr Sy Appetite 4 Destruction The Firm.	Posted - 2008.09.30 19:35:00 - [56] I was pleasantly surprised to see the bailout fail for now. If you think things are bad now, wait until it gets passed and the market digests the implications.
Thorliaron Brutor tribe	Posted - 2008.09.30 19:52:00 - [57] Originally by: goodby4u Originally by: The TX Originally by: goodby4u I plan on moving to iceland and have a direct feed into the server rooms. You'd move all the way to Iceland and run a cable all the way to London? Indeed I am, what are you suggesting I move to london? Because that place is a hell hole. whats so hellish about it?
Valan The Fated	Posted - 2008.09.30 20:02:00 - [58] I was glad out of London it's cool commuting there and doing the good bits but living there all the time is a drag. It's absolutely filthy, most of the population is on shit money so they have the hump and are generally depressed lol /start sig I love old characters that post 'I've beeen playing the game four years' when I know their account has been sold on. /end sig

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