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Afjab
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Posted - 2008.10.05 12:21:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Afjab on 05/10/2008 12:26:46 Having been told I am useless for fleet/gang pvp because I cannot hear voice comms, I was wondering if anyone else has had this problem and found a solution. Or if any of the clever folks who play this game can think of a solution.
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Ix Forres
Caldari Vanguard Frontiers Violent-Tendencies
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Posted - 2008.10.05 13:05:00 -
[2]
Having flown with some HoH pilots before with this problem, it's certainly not your issue, but your FC/alliance/corp's. Whenever I fly with HoH pilots (And sometimes even without), I designate one or two people to type out everything important said on TS/vent into fleet chat. It's not hard, people are always up for it, and even without comms, everyone is vital for the success of a fleet. The trick is not to put HoH people at a disadvantage by not letting them know vital info.
If you're HoH rather than fully deaf, then there may be ways to amplify your comms, either using a hearing aid with induction loop amplifier or just using headphones, a software compressor, and some gain. -- Ix Forres EVE Application Developer ISKsense | RLS-EVE | Blog |
Maria Kalista
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Posted - 2008.10.05 13:08:00 -
[3]
I'm not sure if this would work for you, but you have programs that turn speech into text.Being "stuck" with a Mac I can only direct you to this link
Originally by: CCP Mitnal You put a bear in your tea???
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Ithaca
Gallente Maelstrom Crew
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Posted - 2008.10.05 13:22:00 -
[4]
What Ix said is a good start. But you could also fulfill a role that doesnt need a FC to tell you wht to do all the time. A logistics shipp with everyone in gang added to the watch list would work, just simply rep who needs it when needed. If in 0.0 a dictor needs little guidance once the fight starts.
So whoever said that too you is just being lazy or closed minded about how to do something differently.
Luckily EvE's UI can give you alot of tactical info that would make listening to comms not so important, it just needs the right setup and someone to make the effort.
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Falaricae
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Posted - 2008.10.05 13:32:00 -
[5]
You could add your ideas how to improve the UI in the ideas and features forum. I would imagine that some visual aides that show what the FC wants people to do or target would be welcome to all players.
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Afjab
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Posted - 2008.10.05 22:00:00 -
[6]
Thank you for the great reponses.
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Niccolado Starwalker
Shadow Templars
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Posted - 2008.10.05 22:08:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Niccolado Starwalker on 05/10/2008 22:09:14
Originally by: Afjab Edited by: Afjab on 05/10/2008 12:26:46 Having been told I am useless for fleet/gang pvp because I cannot hear voice comms, I was wondering if anyone else has had this problem and found a solution. Or if any of the clever folks who play this game can think of a solution.
You are not the only one I am afraid. I was in an alliance before twice but I had to drop out twice too because I constantly missed some orders, and could not stand the embarrassment it made.
Voicecoms are good, but unfornately it makes those who are hearing impaired or dont understand spoken english that well a second class. Sad really, but I guess it is the way it is.
Originally by: Dianabolic Your tears are absolutely divine, like a fine fine wine, rolling down your cheeks until they flow down the river of LOL |
Vabjekf
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Posted - 2008.10.05 22:26:00 -
[8]
Honestly important things should be typed anyway.
One of the issues ive always had with voice coms is that you cant scroll back up=P
But then im biased because i dislike voice communication as i traditionally multi-task while playing computer games and listen to audio books/other stuff simultaniously. I get bored if all im doing with my whole sense of hearing is just slightly enhancing what im already doing with my vision=p
Honestly the only game ive ever thought voice communication was really good for was DDO. There were some really tricky instances in that game and it helped to have the party leader, who really knew what he was doing, constantly be talking us through every little step. It kept everyone calm and was reassuring.
Back and forth chat is always better in text, and voice communication is only good for LISTENING to orders. And those orders are good to have typed somewhere anyway.. so...
You see where im going=p
Its a matter of interface. guild wars had a built in way to convey what you were doing to everyone else. You held down a button and could say who you were targeting, or what specific skills you where using on the target, or even point out what the target was doing. That combined with the minimap always letting you know where all your allies were, and voice communication was 100% unnecessary to convey the entirety of what was going on.
A mechanism like that in EVE would be beneficial if you ask me.
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Ix Forres
Caldari Vanguard Frontiers Violent-Tendencies
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Posted - 2008.10.05 22:40:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Vabjekf Honestly important things should be typed anyway.
One of the issues ive always had with voice coms is that you cant scroll back up=P
But then im biased because i dislike voice communication as i traditionally multi-task while playing computer games and listen to audio books/other stuff simultaniously. I get bored if all im doing with my whole sense of hearing is just slightly enhancing what im already doing with my vision=p
Honestly the only game ive ever thought voice communication was really good for was DDO. There were some really tricky instances in that game and it helped to have the party leader, who really knew what he was doing, constantly be talking us through every little step. It kept everyone calm and was reassuring.
Back and forth chat is always better in text, and voice communication is only good for LISTENING to orders. And those orders are good to have typed somewhere anyway.. so...
You see where im going=p
Its a matter of interface. guild wars had a built in way to convey what you were doing to everyone else. You held down a button and could say who you were targeting, or what specific skills you where using on the target, or even point out what the target was doing. That combined with the minimap always letting you know where all your allies were, and voice communication was 100% unnecessary to convey the entirety of what was going on.
A mechanism like that in EVE would be beneficial if you ask me.
I'd love to see an improvement in text comms and fleet coordination. Broadcasting is a step in the right direction but it's nowhere near good enough yet. Tactical UI needs to be a real change, not just an overlay. Who's to say a camera drone is all the input a ship gets?
One of the first things I did in the GBC-NC war was to write a webapp for scouts to use. We would set positions for scouts up using the system, it'd automatically assign new scouts using the IGB interface to the right position (down to celestial accuracy), and FCs would get a running commentary via text, real numbers for reporting, and so on. Huge improvement from intel channels, much more secure, and miles ahead of voice-using scouts. Plus, with that kind of system you can keep track of things, so we could track movements, common hostile routes, and so on. -- Ix Forres EVE Application Developer ISKsense | RLS-EVE | EVE Metrics (NEW) |
Telemicus Thrace
Thrace Inc
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Posted - 2008.10.05 23:26:00 -
[10]
Some good ideas there. I don't have new ones, but I can expand on what's here a bit.
Voice / Text. On gang ops it is always good to have someone relay text orders, even better if they do it in caps so they stand out (and orders are clearer compared to suggestions from the tail end charlie).
Broadcasts are very handy. Especially if all move / align / target broadcasts are done by one person to avoid confusion. The really good part being the way you can r-click on the broadcast and interact with the item. Faster than scrolling overview in large actions. This is most effective when the broadcaster is also the the target caller and is sitting away from the fight cloaked. That way he won't suddenly get podded out of the fight and he can focus on playing Eve the RTS.
Squad warps can be good if your squads are organised by class and range but should still be used with caution.
It is not big deal to write an app for the IGB for intel. Scouts can just add names, ship classes + and optional note in a web form and the fleet commander can see a summary report from his scout squad in realtime. We had a similar app in the Ushra'Khan years back for defensive intel. As long as everyone pumed data into it you could see who had been seen, what they were in and where on a nice map layout with time stamps for each intel report.
Thrace Inc Poster |
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.10.06 03:46:00 -
[11]
I play EVE with sound off and I hate voicecomms. Granted, most "PvPers" prefer voicecoms, but more than half of the time I can barely follow their chatter anyway. I don't see what's so hard to TYPE concise commands into the fleet/wing/squad chat... or better still, the existing in-game system of target designation and other fleet commands.
_
Alternate resist display || Mission reward revamp || better nanofix
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Bloody Rabbit
Jita Miners
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Posted - 2008.10.06 03:51:00 -
[12]
You could play a role that is less FC ordered, recon, covert ops. Or as some of the others have said, carriers, every battle could use a few more carriers
Originally by: Shadarle I notice a lot of people who are very bad at playing the market tend to want CCP to step in and remove the competition from the market so they don't continue coming in last place.[/qu |
Vabjekf
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Posted - 2008.10.06 04:37:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Akita T I play EVE with sound off and I hate voicecomms. Granted, most "PvPers" prefer voicecoms, but more than half of the time I can barely follow their chatter anyway. I don't see what's so hard to TYPE concise commands into the fleet/wing/squad chat... or better still, the existing in-game system of target designation and other fleet commands.
people just think voice com makes them more 'hardcore' and '1337'.
That or they are all a bunch of newbies (to internet) and never learned to type out of necessity in their competitive online games back when you couldn't have voice com due to bandwidth issues, and don't want to admit their inadequacy so they pretend voice com is gods gift to strategic coordination.
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Lance Fighter
Amarr
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Posted - 2008.10.06 04:56:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Vabjekf
Originally by: Akita T I play EVE with sound off and I hate voicecomms. Granted, most "PvPers" prefer voicecoms, but more than half of the time I can barely follow their chatter anyway. I don't see what's so hard to TYPE concise commands into the fleet/wing/squad chat... or better still, the existing in-game system of target designation and other fleet commands.
people just think voice com makes them more 'hardcore' and '1337'.
That or they are all a bunch of newbies (to internet) and never learned to type out of necessity in their competitive online games back when you couldn't have voice com due to bandwidth issues, and don't want to admit their inadequacy so they pretend voice com is gods gift to strategic coordination.
? Voice comms lets you talk and pewpew at the same time. I much prefer typing myself, and i probably type better than the average forum goer here... But when it comes to pvp, voice comms makes my job MUCH easier as a small gang leader. Also tends to clean up my UI a bit :p
Originally by: Dheorl
Originally by: Akita T yawn
I never knew it was possible to stretch your ego THAT much in 1 post
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Vabjekf
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Posted - 2008.10.06 05:09:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Lance Fighter
Originally by: Vabjekf
Originally by: Akita T I play EVE with sound off and I hate voicecomms. Granted, most "PvPers" prefer voicecoms, but more than half of the time I can barely follow their chatter anyway. I don't see what's so hard to TYPE concise commands into the fleet/wing/squad chat... or better still, the existing in-game system of target designation and other fleet commands.
people just think voice com makes them more 'hardcore' and '1337'.
That or they are all a bunch of newbies (to internet) and never learned to type out of necessity in their competitive online games back when you couldn't have voice com due to bandwidth issues, and don't want to admit their inadequacy so they pretend voice com is gods gift to strategic coordination.
? Voice comms lets you talk and pewpew at the same time. I much prefer typing myself, and i probably type better than the average forum goer here... But when it comes to pvp, voice comms makes my job MUCH easier as a small gang leader. Also tends to clean up my UI a bit :p
The UI is kind of cluttered ill agree. They should really figure out a way to fix that.
TEXT:
- Faster to read than to hear
- You can check it over and over again
- Some names may be easier to read than to hear
- You can be certain who is saying what if a lot of stuff is happening simultaniously
- You already have to look at the screen to play eve, so if you are on everyone KNOWS you are in a situation where you can read. There are several situations where you can look at the screen but cant have sound on, and many more where you dont want to have sound
Voice:
- Slightly easier to give orders while also doing stuff, but only if everyone is well mannered and only people who need to be talking speak, and everyone catches everything said and remembers it
Clearly text is superior. This sentance only takes 60 bytes of bandwidth to transmit. The equivalent in audio would be several kb. ^_^
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Kneebone
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Posted - 2008.10.06 05:11:00 -
[16]
Honestly the best way to deal with this is to have a good battle plan going into the fight. If you are talking small gang PvP then every ship basically has a role that are supposed to do. Tackler, DPS, EWAR, etc. Just pick a role that you fell comfortable with and you are good to go. The people being aware you are HoH will make it easier as well, a few quick lines is all you need if you already know what you are doing.
As far as fleet battles go, its somewhat the same thing, but on a larger scale. The FC's are the ones in charge, but your wing commander or wing mates can relay important stuff to you fairly quickly if needed.
The method I would use personally is get someone willing to help you with important stuff, open up a chat with him and move it off to the side by itself. If something really important goes out over the voice com or what not, he can type it to you fairly quickly.
Bottom line though, know your ship, know your role, and use your head and you will be fine!
Best of luck to you and I hope you enjoy Eve to the fullest.
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SSgt Sniper
Gallente MAIDS
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Posted - 2008.10.06 06:04:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Niccolado Starwalker Edited by: Niccolado Starwalker on 05/10/2008 22:09:14
Originally by: Afjab Edited by: Afjab on 05/10/2008 12:26:46 Having been told I am useless for fleet/gang pvp because I cannot hear voice comms, I was wondering if anyone else has had this problem and found a solution. Or if any of the clever folks who play this game can think of a solution.
You are not the only one I am afraid. I was in an alliance before twice but I had to drop out twice too because I constantly missed some orders, and could not stand the embarrassment it made.
Voicecoms are good, but unfornately it makes those who are hearing impaired or dont understand spoken english that well a second class. Sad really, but I guess it is the way it is.
It makes me sad that someone felt the need to embarass you over this.
I normally have someone type out orders when I was leading a fleet as well as using most of the uncomplicated broadcasts to assist people who either can't hear me well or missed what I said.
Hearing people are not better in a fleet than not hearing people, they just take less work. Though from experience, sometimes the hearing impaired person has the skill "Listening" trained, whereas the others have the skill "Hearing". In other words, the impaired person pays much better attention than do those who aren't. Which is why I have to repeat the orders to them four times yet my typer only has to type the order once, even in busy fleet chats, for the impaired person to get and follow the same order.
tl;dr version: to both you and the OP, shame on those that said you can't fly with them. I'd take you in a fleet any day. ------- CEO of Maids. No I didn't pick the name. I've grown rather fond of it though.
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Hugh Ruka
Exploratio et Industria Morispatia
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Posted - 2008.10.06 06:13:00 -
[18]
your FC sucks then ...
ok I was 2x in an alliance but all OPs had orders also typed, in case somebody drops from voice com ... also as suggested, you can always double check the chat later, you can't do so with voice com.
one important thing is, not all of us are native english speakers, so understanding the orders takes more effort in voice than in text ...
sad reality of eve is the commanding interface... it's very crude and unfinished ... (but CCP prefer to work on ambulation and other useless things). --- SIG --- CSM: your support is needed ! |
ollobrains2
Gallente New Eve Order Holdings
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Posted - 2008.10.06 07:05:00 -
[19]
in multi language alliances or corps or with HOH some alliances are flexible others where the FC yells get on voice comms are probably best avoided in a game like eve if u can find a large blob outfit like goons used to be might not be so much of a problem its a sad fact but youre probably going to be limited
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Jimer Lins
Gallente Noir. Trinity Nova Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.06 07:48:00 -
[20]
An FC should be capable of dealing with both voice and non-voice-enabled gangmates.
I've thought about this kind of problem before, but given how EVE involves the hands, my first thought of putting a webcam chat session on my second monitor and using ASL wouldn't work too well. ;)
There are plenty of commands built into the gang UI to handle scenarios without voice comms, and if you're given a mission, you shouldn't need moment-to-moment handholding.
Corp and Personal killboard
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Liberator 1
Gallente Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2008.10.06 08:33:00 -
[21]
I am pretty disgusted at whoever told you that you can't do PvP fleet ops. They should offer you some support not exclude you.
*Shakes fist at FC !
------------------------------------------- ôIf you are in a spaceship that is traveling at the speed of light, and you turn on the headlights, does anything happen?ö ------------------------- |
Niccolado Starwalker
Shadow Templars
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Posted - 2008.10.06 09:11:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Niccolado Starwalker on 06/10/2008 09:14:09
Originally by: Dianabolic Your tears are absolutely divine, like a fine fine wine, rolling down your cheeks until they flow down the river of LOL |
Niccolado Starwalker
Shadow Templars
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Posted - 2008.10.06 09:14:00 -
[23]
Originally by: SSgt Sniper It makes me sad that someone felt the need to embarass you over this.
No one embarrassed me over this. The corp/Alliance I flew with where superb guys and gals and would never do that. But when you constantly fall behind because of lost information, and your corpmates have to wait for you on a fast strike and time critical mission, its not fun.
Dont misunderstand me though. I am having great fun in EVE today! I really mean it!!! But I have understanding of those who have problems being hearing impaired.
Originally by: Dianabolic Your tears are absolutely divine, like a fine fine wine, rolling down your cheeks until they flow down the river of LOL |
Taradis
Amarr The Imperial Assassins Ethereal Dawn
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Posted - 2008.10.06 09:28:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Taradis on 06/10/2008 09:30:11 turn up the volume, plug in speakers sorry if that came out as rude but I have had a few things on my mind that have been irking the shit outta me
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Taradis
Amarr The Imperial Assassins Ethereal Dawn
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Posted - 2008.10.06 09:29:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Niccolado Starwalker Edited by: Niccolado Starwalker on 05/10/2008 22:09:14
Originally by: Afjab Edited by: Afjab on 05/10/2008 12:26:46 Having been told I am useless for fleet/gang pvp because I cannot hear voice comms, I was wondering if anyone else has had this problem and found a solution. Or if any of the clever folks who play this game can think of a solution.
You are not the only one I am afraid. I was in an alliance before twice but I had to drop out twice too because I constantly missed some orders, and could not stand the embarrassment it made.
Voicecoms are good, but unfornately it makes those who are hearing impaired or dont understand spoken english that well a second class. Sad really, but I guess it is the way it is.
Plus its also kinda hard to hear when loads of other peeps r talking real easy to miss things like that. Happened to me a few times so i said **** it
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Kazuma Saruwatari
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.10.06 09:30:00 -
[26]
In my old corp we had someone who was 100% deaf, even posted a video on youtube of him playing EVE, with sound, and he cant hear it as proof.
(Our asshat of a CEO asked for proof of his deafness, so he provided it, and he shut up about it ever since, till he was voted off and the founder retook CEO after some "mild" complaints about the entire thing)
Indeed, there are many ways to get around potential communication difficulties. Often we had a short-hand type all created up for those who are hard of hearing/deaf in our corp, and it was cool using it and anyone who was able to type fast, could relay in gangchat.
Examples of it were:
"Hold at BB gate in 88" would shorthand to: H BB> 88 (H is hold, > is for gate and the rest is self-explanatory)
"Align to Moon 3 station and wait outside" A ^M3 Wait (A is for align, ^ denotes station and M3 indicates moon 3, Wait is wait)
You can create your own short-hand chat for those who are hard of hearing or have speech/language barriers to work around with. We used this to deadly effect, especially one time when our Vent server basically crapped everyone out and we all had to resort to short-hand. Saved our asses during a fleet op. -
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Taradis
Amarr The Imperial Assassins Ethereal Dawn
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Posted - 2008.10.06 09:31:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Kazuma Saruwatari In my old corp we had someone who was 100% deaf, even posted a video on youtube of him playing EVE, with sound, and he cant hear it as proof.
(Our asshat of a CEO asked for proof of his deafness, so he provided it, and he shut up about it ever since, till he was voted off and the founder retook CEO after some "mild" complaints about the entire thing)
Indeed, there are many ways to get around potential communication difficulties. Often we had a short-hand type all created up for those who are hard of hearing/deaf in our corp, and it was cool using it and anyone who was able to type fast, could relay in gangchat.
Examples of it were:
"Hold at BB gate in 88" would shorthand to: H BB> 88 (H is hold, > is for gate and the rest is self-explanatory)
"Align to Moon 3 station and wait outside" A ^M3 Wait (A is for align, ^ denotes station and M3 indicates moon 3, Wait is wait)
You can create your own short-hand chat for those who are hard of hearing or have speech/language barriers to work around with. We used this to deadly effect, especially one time when our Vent server basically crapped everyone out and we all had to resort to short-hand. Saved our asses during a fleet op.
Thats weak and very uncool of him
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Roshan longshot
Gallente Ordos Humanitas
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Posted - 2008.10.06 10:32:00 -
[28]
Seems like CCP is way ahead of the curve here...Gang commands have come along way in 5 years... There should be no problem with a HoH member in a fleet, as long as the fleet commander uses the tools CCP has provided for him. Damn you CCP! Why did you have to make such a good game?? Yes you drew me back AGAIN! Oh well wheres the Omber? |
Slade Trillgon
Siorai Iontach
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Posted - 2008.10.06 13:54:00 -
[29]
I will confirm that all the ops I was on in null sec we had voice comms and typed comms. I can confirm this with utmost certainty, for I was typically one of the pilots that volunteered to type out the orders or the breaks between the orders.
Slade
Originally by: Crumplecorn NerfBat is now known as the WaveMachine.
≡v≡ |
Solasta Kovacs
Total Mayhem. Send More Paramedics
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Posted - 2008.10.06 14:39:00 -
[30]
Looks like there's plenty of outfits willing and happy to ensure all commands are typed in fleet- so good luck finding a good one and getting stuck in.
I would say, in passing, as a matter of sheer reality and practicality (and with no disrespect intended to anyone) that voice coms will nevertheless always be the best and preferred method for serious pvpers. The delay involved in typing can be absolutely crucial. When I get intel that needs instant action (for instance the system we are about to jump to has a massive spike in local and I want the fleet to hold rather than jump), that delay is going to get someone relying on typed commands, very very killed.
Same goes for an emergency command to bail out- the guy reacting last is probably the one who is going to get tackled and mullered.
The situations are probably fairly infrequent. I just wanted to point out that the people who rely solely or almost solely on voice are probably doing it for a good reason.
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