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Markus Egdald
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
0
   |
Posted - 2012.03.30 10:57:00 -
[1] - Quote
Dear all,
First of all yes...I know I should probably play this WONDERFUL game on a PC but guess what...I have only a Mac I discovered this game only few days ago even though I knew of its existence since its conception.
Enough said I simply love it, I think that it is probably the best MMO I've ever played, and I played most of them for many years.
My question is simple The Mac client is going to be broken forever or CCP is planning to actually fix it? I know it sounds a bit harsh but I've been following the Mac forum for a bit and it seems that we have been left a bit in the darkness.
It simply freezes. Sometimes after 5 minutes of play, sometimes after 1 hour. That's it.
I was planning to become a paying customer but obviously this ain't heppening if the client freezes all the time Thanks guys. |
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Industrial Complex
Cosmic Consortium
1130
|
Posted - 2012.03.30 11:27:00 -
[2] - Quote
Does any of the advice from the constantly freezing up thread in the Macintosh forum help you at all? |
Markus Egdald
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2012.03.30 11:32:00 -
[3] - Quote
Thanks Mara for your reply :)
I tried few things but, with all due respect for CCP, it really seems a problem with the client itself.
The most popular advice is to install a Windows partition with Bootcamp and play EVE online on that. Unfortunately that is not an option for me and besides, if there is a Mac client than I think it's fair to demand that it actually works :)
I just wanted to know if there are confirmations on the fact that CCP will fix the Mac client sooner or later.
Then I will be more than happy to join this interesting community of Space addicts ;P |
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Industrial Complex
Cosmic Consortium
1130
|
Posted - 2012.03.30 11:56:00 -
[4] - Quote
It is probably no consolation to know that the Mac client works just fine on my 17" iMac w/x1600 and 11" MacBook Air.
I hope you and all the folks in that thread find a solution soon! |
Khanh'rhh
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
992
|
Posted - 2012.03.30 12:15:00 -
[5] - Quote
I know this isn't the solution you want, but would you ever consider using bootcamp?
If you actually get into eve you won't be using the computer for anything else anyway (except for winning eve by trolling 3rd party forums) so you may as well turn it into an eve machine.
-
"Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual, issued in the 1930's |
Markus Egdald
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2012.03.30 12:19:00 -
[6] - Quote
Khanh'rhh wrote:I know this isn't the solution you want, but would you ever consider using bootcamp?
He...I would consider using Bootcamp when CCP will officially stop offering and supporting a client for Mac ;)
|
Jouron
Hadon Shipping
26
|
Posted - 2012.03.30 13:32:00 -
[7] - Quote
I feel your pain.
I played on a mac for the longest time. Then incarna came out. My mac book pro had a video card that supported shader three. Unfortunately apple in its infinite wisdom choose not to release the proper video card drivers for it to support shader 3. In order to continue I HAD TO, had to boot my mac as a PC. CCP is working so hard to make mac a viable game to play on a mac, and the more new and powerful your mac the fewer issues it seems you have. But as a company apple has chosen to make so many poor choices regarding there customer base with things like Final cut X, and manufacturing choices I just gave up on them. Apple has become the new IBM as a company. They became what they sought to destroy.
In january after using a mac for four years and saving up I built a hot rod computer. That means it had to be Windows 7. My computer has never frozen playing eve or other games, and is currently out performing my g5 mac tower I use at work. There are work arounds to make macs work and yes ccp will listen and act on your bug reports. But so far brother I have no bugs with my current pc build they need to be fixed.
As a former Mac user I can only say this:
Good luck. |
Markus Egdald
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2012.03.30 13:41:00 -
[8] - Quote
Jouron wrote:As a former Mac user I can only say this:
Good luck.
He...thanks Jouron,
Honestly I did not want to get a new PC because I would have ended up playing on it only and throw my PS3 out the window (pun not intended).
So I bought a Mac for that reason and because I wanted to try something new. I was not planning to play with it.
Then I encountered EVE online...DAMN!  |
Xercodo
Disturbed Friends Of Diazepam
Dark Matter Coalition
986
|
Posted - 2012.03.30 14:25:00 -
[9] - Quote
PC Gamers: "JOINNNNNNN USSSSSSS"
The Drake is a Lie |
Madlof Chev
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
16
|
Posted - 2012.03.30 23:57:00 -
[10] - Quote
Seriously, Bootcamp is your best option. The performance of the Mac client is absolutely terrible in comparison to the Windows client on exactly the same hardware. You might even get the same/slightly better performance than the Mac client by installing Windows into Parallels Desktop and running the client virtualised. |
Markus Egdald
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2012.03.31 12:28:00 -
[11] - Quote
Madlof Chev wrote:Seriously, Bootcamp is your best option.
Problem is that if every time a Mac user has a problem with the client he/she will move to a Bootcamp/Windows environment then...CCP will simply stop releasing patches for the Mac client.
The Mac client exist, it should work...end of story :)
I will follow this forum for a while and see if they are going to do something about it. Then I will decide if becoming a paying customer or not.
Thanks all for your replies.
|
Runny ElTiburon
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2012.03.31 13:50:00 -
[12] - Quote
Hi,
I am playing EVE for 4 days now on a brand new iMac and I have all those frozen problems. If we pay for a service we should get the same quality for Mac and PC and the is not the case!
The other problem, if you want to run EVE on boot camp, you have to make a clean instal of windows if you want stability and that is another 200$ or more to get the license...
Regards |
Khanh'rhh
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
992
|
Posted - 2012.03.31 15:51:00 -
[13] - Quote
Markus Egdald wrote:Madlof Chev wrote:Seriously, Bootcamp is your best option. Problem is that if every time a Mac user has a problem with the client he/she will move to a Bootcamp/Windows environment then...CCP will simply stop releasing patches for the Mac client.
Whilst I do completely see this point of view, most of the problems with the Mac client come from Apple not giving two ***** about anyone who wants to use the machine for gaming, which echos down to the hardware providers also (nVidia).
For instance, a little after Skyrim was released nVidia released a new driver that increased performance with the game engine by nearly 50% in some situations, by coding around things in the game world that couldn't necessarily be changed easily by Bethesda. The same driver update hasn't been pushed out to the mac, last time I checked.
You will always need to accept two truths:
1) Mac users are in a stark minority
2) People using the mac for gaming are in a minority of mac users
If I were CCP I would certainly release and maintain a Mac client .. but spend vast resources on optimizing for a platform that doesn't want to help itself, and is used by a very small minority? Yeah, I would think twice about it.
If a mac user wants an optimized gaming experience they will need to make it happen for themselves, and this currently is done via bootcamp.
I'm not wailing on the mac (I use one at work) but in respect to it's viability as a gaming machine, dems the way tarps lie.
-
"Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual, issued in the 1930's |
Jouron
Hadon Shipping
28
|
Posted - 2012.04.02 20:27:00 -
[14] - Quote
It should work properly it should. But somethings are out of CCPs hands.
Take Mac laptops for instance.
I had huge Frame rate issues running a mac client. Because with most mac books they have completely inadequate cooling these are older and newer models and especially the mac book airs. There vents are too small there fans are too small as well, all those compromises just so they fit in a shiny seamless Aluminum case...
Apple knows this so if your running a dual core or more if you hit a heat threshold (which by the way eve can get your mac too in no time flat) it will kill one of the cores so it generates less heat and your performance goes through the floor.
Anything bigger then an I book or I book pro I cant speak for. But thats at least one thing that that ccp cant change about a mac computer to get the client to work better on them.
I will say this eve ran smoothest on my mac book pro once I booted it as a PC on an old ass copy of XP I had lying around. Heat was still an issue but I remedied that with some external fans. Once it got to that point I was like ok I need a freaking desktop.
Ps do you have an NVIDIA graphics Card? CCP seems to be awful cozy with Nvidia these days so Radeon cards which usually come with macs tend to suffer as well. |
Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings
165
|
Posted - 2012.04.02 20:54:00 -
[15] - Quote
Quote:Whilst I do completely see this point of view, most of the problems with the Mac client come from Apple not giving two ***** about anyone who wants to use the machine for gaming, which echos down to the hardware providers also (nVidia).
It probably has more to do with the fact that EVE's graphics use DirectX and DirectX is a feature of Windows. The Mac client uses Wine...which is to say, it tries to emulate DirectX (and not all that well).
Thus, the Mac client is -always- going to inferior to the PC client in terms of framerate and bugginess.
That said, I'm not sure what the deal is with specific crash/freezing issues. Presumably they're working on it and will fix it soonGäó |
Marite Maglicoo
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2012.04.03 00:47:00 -
[16] - Quote
I spent 5 days downloading this (around family internet use), and needed 30 minutes to set up a character, and I can't even run the tutorial without freezing up my Mac.
Not exactly a great first impression. Never even got to fly anywhere.
What a waste of time and effort. |
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Industrial Complex
Cosmic Consortium
1171
|
Posted - 2012.04.03 02:50:00 -
[17] - Quote
When it comes to heat issues, I have used a laptop stand with built-in fan. Alternately have a look at smcFanControl. |
Markus Egdald
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2012.04.03 06:16:00 -
[18] - Quote
Kahega Amielden wrote:It probably has more to do with the fact that EVE's graphics use DirectX and DirectX is a feature of Windows. The Mac client uses Wine...which is to say, it tries to emulate DirectX (and not all that well).
Thus, the Mac client is -always- going to inferior to the PC client in terms of framerate and bugginess.
That said, I'm not sure what the deal is with specific crash/freezing issues. Presumably they're working on it and will fix it soonGäó
Oh yes...Direct X...the legal Microsoft monopoly.
Anyway...I don't mind being inferior, I don't mind bugs...but freezing...THAT I do mind :)
Well...few Euros saved every month I guess. For sure CCP is not going to go bankrupt for few Mac loosers who can't be bothered to install Bootcamp/Windows on their machine.
I bought a Mac for a reason, otherwise I would have gotten a PC. I still use my PS3 as the main gaming platform. |
Markus Egdald
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2012.04.03 07:35:00 -
[19] - Quote
Mara Rinn wrote:When it comes to heat issues, I have used a laptop stand with built-in fan. Alternately have a look at smcFanControl.
Thanks Mara, I will definitely give this smcFanControl a try later on today and see if the problem resides within the dominion of over heating computers...why don't I speak a normal english! ;P |
Markus Egdald
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2012.04.03 15:49:00 -
[20] - Quote
I tried smcFanControl but somehow it wasn't changing the speed of the fans. It was measuring the temp fine though
It started at around 30 centigrades and after about 15 minutes of playtime the client froze at about 50 centigrades...WOW
I downloaded another software called Fan Control, which sits in the System Preferences. With that I could change the speed fine but it could not show the temp -_-
Anyway...I tried setting the fan speed at around 2500 rpm (is it safe? I don't want to destroy them) and when I could clearly hear the fans making more noise, I started the EVE client.
I could play non stop for about 30 minutes, jumping from place to place...could it really be a temp problem? If it is like that I am gonna laugh my ass off.
Tonight I will test it extensively and see. I have ONE day left from my trial account so I guess that if you see me around after tomorrow that means that everything went fine ;)
Thanks again for the advice. |
Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings
165
|
Posted - 2012.04.03 18:43:00 -
[21] - Quote
Quote:It started at around 30 centigrades and after about 15 minutes of playtime the client froze at about 50 centigrades...WOW
Assuming you're talking about the temperature of the processor, that's not the problem at all. Intel chips start to freak out at around 75-90 degrees. 50 is actually rather cool.
I'd check out your GPU (graphics card) temperature. |
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Industrial Complex
Cosmic Consortium
1174
|
Posted - 2012.04.03 22:14:00 -
[22] - Quote
For whatever reason, Apple chooses to let their hardware run hotter and quieter rather than cooler and noisier. Since the laptop bodies are solid blocks of aluminum, it really is worth using a laptop stand with built-in fan. No Mac that I have access to reports GPU temperature, so I just crank the fans up, point a pedestal fan along the back of the computer, and have at it. |
Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings
165
|
Posted - 2012.04.03 23:43:00 -
[23] - Quote
Quote:or whatever reason, Apple chooses to let their hardware run hotter and quieter rather than cooler and noisier. Since the laptop bodies are solid blocks of aluminum, it really is worth using a laptop stand with built-in fan. No Mac that I have access to reports GPU temperature, so I just crank the fans up, point a pedestal fan along the back of the computer, and have at it.
It's something to try at least. OP should try some sort of hackneyed solution to keep the GPU cooler, or perhaps try running some other graphically-intensive game (perhaps turning down EVE's graphics to see if that helps?) to see if the GPU is overheating.
Quote:Oh yes...Direct X...the legal Microsoft monopoly.
Sorta. It's not like game devs couldn't write their games using OpenGL (an open equivalent which works on all OSes and isn't really any less powerful). It's just that Mac/Linux is such a small part of the market (or at least, used to be) that there's no reason to bother. |
Markus Egdald
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2012.04.04 06:02:00 -
[24] - Quote
False alarm...the client still freezes.
Well...it's been fun till it lasted.
I guess you will see me in Dust 514 then :) (hopefully it won't freeze my PS3...but you never know).
Good luck guys and thanks again for your feedback. |
Khanh'rhh
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
993
|
Posted - 2012.04.04 09:54:00 -
[25] - Quote
Kahega Amielden wrote:Quote:It started at around 30 centigrades and after about 15 minutes of playtime the client froze at about 50 centigrades...WOW
Assuming you're talking about the temperature of the processor, that's not the problem at all. Intel chips start to freak out at around 75-90 degrees. 50 is actually rather cool. I'd check out your GPU (graphics card) temperature.
Yeah it's not the core CPU temp that is an issue, it's the fact that heat wells up inside and starts heating stuff up that shouldn't be getting that warm at all.
If you do something on most Macbooks that is both CPU and GPU intensive the tiny little fans and the stupidly small outlets can't keep up and it will start throttling the power to both to compensate. Usually programs (games) start crashing at this point. It's not just the Eve client, it's most games that make use of system resources heavily. See: Spore when it came out on mac.
If you use your macbook for anything other than a $2000 facebook reader then I would heavily recommend a laptop cooling stand. There are no vents to blow air into (fail) but you can keep the warm spots of aluminium cool so it works out pretty well.
-
"Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual, issued in the 1930's |
Markus Egdald
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2012.04.04 12:16:00 -
[26] - Quote
So...to play EVE online on my iMac I should immerge it into liquid nitrogen...got it ;P |
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Industrial Complex
Cosmic Consortium
1176
|
Posted - 2012.04.04 12:38:00 -
[27] - Quote
Khanh'rhh wrote:If you do something on most Macbooks that is both CPU and GPU intensive the tiny little fans and the stupidly small outlets can't keep up and it will start throttling the power to both to compensate.
I play EVE just fine on my MacBook Air. The cooling is just peachy if you either (A) turn the fans up full throttle (like on a Windows laptop), or (B) apply external air flow. Thanks to the built-in heatsink, things don't just sit there boiling. Blow air through or over any part of the case, the whole thing cools down. This is due to the magic of thermal conductivity.
If turning the fans up isn't solving the problem, I would suggest that it's the drivers at issue.
This has happened before and it will happen again: Apple accepts certain drivers from nVidia which have been tested to work with all the features of OpenGL that are officially supported. Then along comes EVE Online wrapped in Cider which turns DirectX 9 into some Frankenstein Monster of OpenGL commands, which end up doing something unsupported (or attempting to run a procedural shader which didn't translate correctly between the nVidia card Cider is built to support versus the nVidia card that actually exists in the Mac), and weird stuff happens.
On one of my Macs (17" iMac 2GHz Core 2 Duo w/X1700), certain planet shadows end up being infinite black triangles in space that load the GPU and the CPU to 100%. Warping away from some stargates can only be done on autopilot. On my MacBook Air, certain textures (or shaders? I don't know) end up being replaced with bright green surfaces.
Sometimes, EVE will just stall. No more graphics updates, but drones in space keep doing what they were told to do. Shield boosters keep running, shield hardeners keep running, the ship keeps orbiting whoever it was told to orbit. If I force quit the application, the character logs out. For me this only happens once every dozen hours or so. For others, it apparently happens very soon and very frequently.
I mentioned heat as a possible issue because it has caused me problems in the past. Heat is not the only issue affecting the Frankenstein Monster that is EVE Online for Mac, but it is something that is easy to address and only requires the player to spend a little time trying out (as opposed to months of debugging and rewriting by CCP and Transgaming).
|
Jouron
Hadon Shipping
29
|
Posted - 2012.04.04 14:32:00 -
[28] - Quote
Dont forget guys there is mac forum you can post these reported bugs too.
If you want to help grow a better mac client you need to post some of your woes there. |
Markus Egdald
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2012.04.04 18:12:00 -
[29] - Quote
Jouron wrote:Dont forget guys there is mac forum you can post these reported bugs too.
If you want to help grow a better mac client you need to post some of your woes there.
I can't, I'm on a trial account...actually I think it just expired ;)
Hope CCP will solve the Mac client problem. |
Khanh'rhh
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
996
|
Posted - 2012.04.05 09:00:00 -
[30] - Quote
Mara Rinn wrote:The cooling is just peachy if you either (A) turn the fans up full throttle (like on a Windows laptop), or (B) apply external air flow
This defense is silly, sorry. It's fine as long as you take deliberate steps to counter it? Isn't that saying that is not fine, out of the box?
Quote:Thanks to the built-in heatsink, things don't just sit there boiling. Blow air through or over any part of the case, the whole thing cools down. This is due to the magic of thermal conductivity.
This is not how things work. Yeah, it helps slightly, but there is no contact between your thermally sensitive parts and the case (no conductive link). That is actually happening is you are heating the air inside by a large amount, and then cooling the case which is in contact with the air.
If you have a significant heat issue, then you can make the case 10centigrade and still be melting the internals.
-
"Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual, issued in the 1930's |
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Industrial Complex
Cosmic Consortium
1187
|
Posted - 2012.04.05 09:08:00 -
[31] - Quote
Khanh'rhh wrote:Mara Rinn wrote:The cooling is just peachy if you either (A) turn the fans up full throttle (like on a Windows laptop), or (B) apply external air flow This defense is silly, sorry. It's fine as long as you take deliberate steps to counter it? Isn't that saying that is not fine, out of the box?
It gets hot otherwise, since these laptops aren't designed for gaming. They'll end up stalling or shutting down due to thermal overload. My Windows laptop just shuts itself off randomly when running EVE too. It doesn't even have a metal case, so I can't use the external fan trick :\
|
Remistor Callaway
Galactic Freight and Industrial Corporation
0
|
Posted - 2012.04.06 02:42:00 -
[32] - Quote
I own a 13" Macbook Pro Core 2 Duo running Lion and Windows 7.
The Mac client runned without any major bug for 6 months.
I installed it in boot camp only too see and I seen a increase in FPS from 30 to 45-50 when "working"(even with better graphic settings than the ones I used on OSX). Badly, the Mac client sucks, like almost any game, Windows runs smoother. I recommend you to install it on Windows partition. |
Jouron
Hadon Shipping
30
|
Posted - 2012.04.07 20:35:00 -
[33] - Quote
I think the moral of the story is this:
Mac players deserve a high quality or as high quality version of eve as pc players have.
Apple due to liscensing issues always creates more hoops for content providers to jump through.
Because of this Mac players dont have as good a client. But there is more reason to point the finger at apple then at CCP. |
Remistor Callaway
Galactic Freight and Industrial Corporation
0
|
Posted - 2012.04.07 20:41:00 -
[34] - Quote
Jouron wrote:I think the moral of the story is this:
Mac players deserve a high quality or as high quality version of eve as pc players have.
Apple due to liscensing issues always creates more hoops for content providers to jump through.
Because of this Mac players dont have as good a client. But there is more reason to point the finger at apple then at CCP.
You're probably right, but whatever the reason, Eve on mac, and gaming in general, sucks. The best way to make Eve better on Mac is to install it on Windows partition.
|
Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings
176
|
Posted - 2012.04.09 11:33:00 -
[35] - Quote
Quote:But there is more reason to point the finger at apple then at CCP.
I don't think this is entirely fair. The issue here is that game developers decide to make their games using a Windows-exclusive graphics API (directX). It's a bit unusual that putting EVE on Mac OS or Linux should even be possible. It would run fine on Mac OS had CCP used OpenGL instead, but they didn't. |
Khanh'rhh
Sudden Buggery
997
|
Posted - 2012.04.10 11:39:00 -
[36] - Quote
Kahega Amielden wrote:Quote:But there is more reason to point the finger at apple then at CCP.
I don't think this is entirely fair. The issue here is that game developers decide to make their games using a Windows-exclusive graphics API (directX). It's a bit unusual that putting EVE on Mac OS or Linux should even be possible. It would run fine on Mac OS had CCP used OpenGL instead, but they didn't.
OpenGL has all manner of performance and reliability issues when compared to DirectX.
All you would achieve is swapping all the players who suffer glitchyness and report issues from the Mac platform to the PC; and in doing so cause a larger group of players to be affected.
It's a bad move.
-
"Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual, issued in the 1930's |
Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings
179
|
Posted - 2012.04.10 20:02:00 -
[37] - Quote
I'm not going to comment on the relative merits of OpenGL vs DirectX (mostly because I would have no idea WTF I'm talking about), I'm just saying that it was CCP make a conscious decision to write the EVE client in with a Windows-specific API and thus you can't really blame Apple for this. |
Khanh'rhh
Sudden Buggery
1001
|
Posted - 2012.04.11 16:18:00 -
[38] - Quote
Kahega Amielden wrote:I'm not going to comment on the relative merits of OpenGL vs DirectX (mostly because I would have no idea WTF I'm talking about), I'm just saying that it was CCP make a conscious decision to write the EVE client in with a Windows-specific API and thus you can't really blame Apple for this.
No, they chose to write the game in a very well documented, very well supported and very well implemented API which caters to the largest possible potential audience.
If you want to play a game where 2/3rds of every graphical suggestion is knocked down because it can't be implemented in OpenGL, then go find their forums. It's not pretty.
To explain the difference in the best way I know how:
DirX: Emulates the graphical hardware to the OS. You write your game / program to use the DirX API, and forget (mostly) about specific hardware restraints. Your game runs on any machine / hardware combination that can run DirX
OpenGL: Is essentially a hardware-accelerated renderer and engages the hardware on an implementation level.
Basically, it is much easier to write a reliable game on top of DirectX than it is OpenGL - you will nearly always see improvement in actual performance and development time to implement.
Legacywise, OpenGL was poorly supported when Eve came out, also.
tl;dr - you do *not* cater your entire development for the edge case of users wanting to access it from different hardware, especially when those users have a solution open to them.
You cater for the majority.
-
"Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual, issued in the 1930's |
Jouron
Hadon Shipping
31
|
Posted - 2012.04.12 13:33:00 -
[39] - Quote
CCP made this game PC and linux only.
Then they dropped linux support and added the apple client.
They made the effort. They cant change the deficiency's that are in inherent in open GL |
Gen Fesslenski
Legio Prima Victrix
Imperius Legio Victrix
2
|
Posted - 2012.06.11 12:41:00 -
[40] - Quote
Markus Egdald wrote:Jouron wrote:Dont forget guys there is mac forum you can post these reported bugs too.
If you want to help grow a better mac client you need to post some of your woes there. I can't, I'm on a trial account...actually I think it just expired ;) Hope CCP will solve the Mac client problem.
This is not CCP's problem, its Apples. This has been tested on every other game brought to the Mac, direct comparisons have even been made with OGL runtimes of Half Life 2 on Mac and Windows. Mac's simply use much much more processing power to do the same things as far as GPU is concerned. Hell Linux is far faster at doing OGL than Mac. It's simply not a priority, and I suspect its a marketing ploy to keep you upgrading.
You combine that with the appaling cooling problems that Macs have (My gf's 2012 MBP has only one fan opening for air to get out... IN THE SCREEN HINGE!!!11 and she gets freezes in Final Cut all the time. I get graphical glitches with my 2010 Mac Mini just on the desktop with running Logic session that tax the CPU cos the heatsinks pass air from one to the other etc.)
tl;dr
Mac's OGL processing sucks.
Mac's cooling sucks.
If you want to have most of these issues fixed you need to Bootcamp (and run a cmdline smc control to turn up the fan like i did)
Alternatively you can complain fruitlessly to Apple about cooling (won't work because they design products to break within 3 years hence the yearly refreshes) |
Skilo Tekki
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2012.06.12 02:34:00 -
[41] - Quote
Cooling:
Even laptops designed for gaming are highly limited by this. The smaller you make the laptop the harders its going to be to disperse the heat. Macs are not gaming laptops, and are tiny, which makes it all the worse. All the components are closer and it has less/smaller fans.
I play on an acer laptop when travelling for work. I find heat problems are greatly reduced just by propping the back of the laptop on a book or something. This lets air flow move under the laptop. If your not travelling consider buying a stand with an in built fan. I had one for a while it was very effective.
OpenGL vs Direct X:
CCP want to produce the highest quality game possible. In order to do this they have to use Direct X. Theres not much else to say really. Blame whoever came up with OpenGL for making a **** API?
Bootcamp:
To be honest i see no reason why you dont just do this instead of whining. Be proactive. I have no doubt CCP do all they can to support their MAC minority user base. They showed this by creating the MAC client in the first place. Im sure they'd do just fine having not bothered.
The fact is CCP needs to be profitable, this means focussing on the majority userbase (theres a reason this is generally refered to as PC gaming :S its even on the magazines). Its not their fault you bought a machine that isn't optimised for gaming (heat or OS wise), and is produced by a company reknowned for making developers jump through all kinds of hoops.
Conclusion:
CCP do the best they can to cater to as many people as possible, any company would want to increase their potential userbase. But there are limits to profitability regarding this, and a company needs to be profitable.
But the fact of the matter is that there is a solution available, in the form of bootcamp, you just need to be proactive and implement it.
TL;DR - Life isn't fair, so do something about it (if you really want to play eve?!). |
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Industrial Complex
Cosmic Consortium
1497
|
Posted - 2012.06.12 03:57:00 -
[42] - Quote
Skilo Tekki wrote:.OpenGL vs Direct X:
CCP want to produce the highest quality game possible. In order to do this they have to use Direct X. Theres not much else to say really. Blame whoever came up with OpenGL for making a **** API?
Blizzard seems to be unencumbered by DirectX on the Mac platform. Their developers have already said that cross platform development helps them write better code.
Boot camp is not an option: why should I need to buy a second operating system to play a game released for my platform?
|
Raiz Nhell
DEEP CORPS
125
|
Posted - 2012.06.12 04:37:00 -
[43] - Quote
I run EVE on my Mac Pro desktop and my MacBook Pro laptop for at least 3 years...
I have had the client crash/freeze on me... but not to the point where I can't play the game... merely an annoyance/reminder to eat and interact with humans.
The biggest problem I have is if I have an attack of the stupid and try and enter the Captains Quarters... Then it crashes and I get asked whether I want to debug it... I do enough debugging at work so I don't want to do it during off hours...
My next project is to see if I can squeeze enough out of my Macbook Air so I'm not lugging the big laptop to work in order to mine :)
There is no such thing as a fair fight...
If your fighting fair you have automatically put yourself at a disadvantage. |
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Industrial Complex
Cosmic Consortium
1497
|
Posted - 2012.06.12 09:15:00 -
[44] - Quote
The previous model of 11" MacBook Air runs EVE well enough for mining and missioning when detail is set to lowest. The new model should be slightly better. You will want to get smcFanControl or a stand with built-in fan though. Mine gets to 75-¦C without extra cooling.
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Pak Narhoo
Knights of Kador
556
|
Posted - 2012.06.12 14:12:00 -
[45] - Quote
Probably been said and it's definitely mentioned in the big freeze thread but... turn everything else but EVE off for now if you play.
I know it's ridiculous and until recent there was no reason for this but somehow CCP/Transgaming frelled the client up (again). 
Been here now for almost 5 years ever since the first Mac client was launched and largely I can say the client got better over the years. They'll fix this too, just don't give up.  |
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