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elric gallach
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Posted - 2008.10.05 21:33:00 -
[1]
The only way eve will ever get rid of macro miners. Is to reduce their income from mining.
More mining for less isk = longer hours for the same money.
When the amount of money they earn playing eve, becomes less than the amount they get playing wow, thatÆs when theyÆll leave.
The introduction of the rorqual to empire, would depress ore prices. Bad for macros
But ships would be cheaper to build, (good for pvpÆs).
By making it storable only in corp hangers, would mean that only player corps could have 1.
If macro miners formed a player corp, they could be wardecced. (Good for pvpÆs bad for macros)
New players would soon realize that the way to make isk is to join player corps. And get mining bonuses. (Good for player corps).
Bigger mining corps is better for alliances, A more constant supply of minerals to build ships etc. and increase the war effort. ( And more team trained miners to recruit)
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Xessej
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Posted - 2008.10.05 21:56:00 -
[2]
Not a bad troll.
Forcing down mineral prices further wouldn't bother macros at all but would drive every one else out of mining since profits would be tiny.
The best way to get rid of macro miners is for devs to implement the belts as exploration sites only feature discussed here.
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Susan Morals
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Posted - 2008.10.05 22:00:00 -
[3]
 Originally by: elric gallach
The only way eve will ever get rid of macro miners. Is to reduce their income from mining.
More mining for less isk = longer hours for the same money.
When the amount of money they earn playing eve, becomes less than the amount they get playing wow, thatÆs when theyÆll leave.
Surely, if they're macro miners, then what they will have is a rack of PC's running clients for all kinds of MMO's, and so (assuming your basic theory is correct) CCP would need to bring the price of isk below that needed to power some fraction of a computer to make the macro miners move to another game.
Originally by: elric gallach
The introduction of the rorqual to empire, would depress ore prices. Bad for macros
But ships would be cheaper to build, (good for pvpÆs).
Bad for non-macro miners too. Also, if ships were cheaper to build, everyone would move up a ship class, so no overall change to PVP, except that the price of entry (in terms of skills needed) goes up. (See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arms_race)
Originally by: elric gallach
By making it storable only in corp hangers, would mean that only player corps could have 1.
If macro miners formed a player corp, they could be wardecced. (Good for pvpÆs bad for macros)
I understand that your main complaint against macro miners is that they have too much money. Assuming this is correct, if their player corp gets war dec'd then they can just throw that corp away and start a new one (I think the cost of a new corp is a couple of million, or about 1/2 an hour with a high-sec hulk)
Also, there are a lot of serious miners in non-player corps. Why should these people be denied access to a Rorqual?
Originally by: elric gallach
New players would soon realize that the way to make isk is to join player corps. And get mining bonuses. (Good for player corps).
Bad for people who aren't in player corps. Not everyone plays game the same way as you.
Originally by: elric gallach
Bigger mining corps is better for alliances, A more constant supply of minerals to build ships etc. and increase the war effort. ( And more team trained miners to recruit)
I build Covetors for fun and profit (Eve mail me for a quote!) and I have no problem finding reasonably priced ores in high-sec. OK, I'm not building dreadnoughts, but my friends who do are not having problems finding reasonably pried ores in high-sec, or even downright cheep ores in low-sec.
I think you have a solution looking for a problem here. Despite all the complaints on forums about macro mining, there is a definite lack of any real evidence about how much of it there is going on. If I'm wrong, please post some links so we can all see the evidence, although I'm not going to accept "this guy was a macroer because he didn't respond when I tried to talk to him in local" as evidence.
Sue.
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elric gallach
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Posted - 2008.10.05 22:03:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Xessej
Not a bad troll.
Forcing down mineral prices further wouldn't bother macros at all but would drive every one else out of mining since profits would be tiny.
The best way to get rid of macro miners is for devs to implement the belts as exploration sites only feature discussed here.
Not meant as a trolling session, serious question that i would like to see addressed.
the price drop could be controled by needing more mins per ship
One of the reasons put forward on this forum, for not allowing the rorqual into hi sec was that it would help macros. I disagree.
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KAELA MENSHA
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Posted - 2008.10.05 22:09:00 -
[5]
Surely, if they're macro miners, then what they will have is a rack of PC's running clients for all kinds of MMO's, and so (assuming your basic theory is correct) CCP would need to bring the price of isk below that needed to power some fraction of a computer to make the macro miners move to another game.
If you hav e 2 computors running 2 games for profit.
And 1 game makes more profit, soon you'll have 2 computors playing 1 game
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elric gallach
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Posted - 2008.10.05 22:14:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Xessej
The best way to get rid of macro miners is for devs to implement the belts as exploration sites only feature discussed here.
I agree making belt exploration based is a good idea.
And if the rorqual/orca ever comes to hi sec, i would like it to be biased towards that end
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Xessej
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Posted - 2008.10.05 22:20:00 -
[7]
Seriously, from what I've seen in my six weeks or so is a lot of macro miners who seem likely to be actual players running macros while at work or school. Those guys don't care how low the price of ore or minerals go since they simply boot up log in to eve and let the macro do its thing.
The isk sellers macroing seem to be operating in places I haven't seen but all reports seem to indicate that it is occuring in lowsec and nullsec so the rorq is already affecting the prices for the ores they mine.
As long as the game relies on static sites as the resource sources and has a client server interface conducive to macroing the macri miners will remain. Making the resource sources dynamic would make macroing significantly more difficult if not outright impossible.
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elric gallach
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Posted - 2008.10.05 22:24:00 -
[8]
Edited by: elric gallach on 05/10/2008 22:24:25
Originally by: Xessej
Seriously, from what I've seen in my six weeks or so is a lot of macro miners who seem likely to be actual players running macros while at work or school. Those guys don't care how low the price of ore or minerals go since they simply boot up log in to eve and let the macro do its thing.
The isk sellers macroing seem to be operating in places I haven't seen but all reports seem to indicate that it is occuring in lowsec and nullsec so the rorq is already
affecting the prices for the ores they mine.
As long as the game relies on static sites as the resource sources and has a client server interface conducive to macroing the macri miners will remain. Making the resource sources dynamic would make macroing significantly more difficult if not outright impossible.
Agreed a very good point
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loki gallach
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Posted - 2008.10.05 22:32:00 -
[9]
I understand that your main complaint against macro miners is that they have too much money. Assuming this is correct, if their player corp gets war dec'd then they can just throw that corp away and start a new one
And get petitioned for an exploit .
maybe banned in time
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Devian 666
Igneus Auctorita
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.05 22:42:00 -
[10]
Originally by: loki gallach
I understand that your main complaint against macro miners is that they have too much money. Assuming this is correct, if their player corp gets war dec'd then they can just throw that corp away and start a new one
And get petitioned for an exploit.
maybe banned in time
That is incorrect the worst that will happen for people dropping a corp is if they start up a similar corp, and if you petition them for doing it around 3 or so times.
The only ban they'll get is if they're caught macroing. You need to actually petition the suspected macroer.
Of the non-RMT macroers in the game they're probably blowing their isk on in-game items. I don't see any point in complaining about the isk that they have. The real issue is that the macro miners keep oversupplying the materials economy (too many minerals) and thus end up shafting people who actually mine.
http://obeythekitten.com/ |
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Artemis Rose
Varion Galactic
Accord Corporate Enterprise Syndicate
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Posted - 2008.10.06 03:27:00 -
[11]
Then whomever macros will just run courier missions in low sec all day. It probably makes more than high sec macro mining could ever make.
***
Currently Playing: Trolls from Outer Space
Current Equipment: VISAcard chain mail, +2 Amulet of Epic Whine, Self Banstick +2
WTB: +666 E-peen killboard stats |
Coros
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2008.10.06 06:40:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Artemis Rose
Then whomever macros will just run courier missions in low sec all day. It probably makes more than high sec macro mining could ever make.
This. For example last night I fly around in Heimatar/Metropolis low sec and there was constant flow of noobs in noob corps flying t1 haulers with names like 2as8d, 8sadj3, ad8jsd, 9wjajd, and ad982jj... Around Ingunn - surprise surprise.. 
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schmarty pants
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Posted - 2008.10.06 08:02:00 -
[13]
I think you should just drop the conversation of Macro Mining because it is old, tired and boring :)
Seriously tho - CCP won't stop them, players can harass them and thats the end of the topic...
Go back to sticking your finger in your bellybutton and inhale.
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Dennmoth Ferdier
Miners Collective
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Posted - 2008.10.06 08:04:00 -
[14]
I'm sorry, how exactly does implementing the Rorq to high-security space bring down ore prices? Only bigger and more wealthy corps could afford one, and most probably they'd be space junk pretty fast, but that's not as much relevant, as is the fact that it's a mining support ship, that's primarily designed to operate in space where there are no POSs nor Stations, and hauling by conventional means is long, dangerous and painful.
As I see it, rorqual has nothing to offer for highsec space, you couldn't jump, compression is needless because 95% of the systems have stations, only thing that would make a difference is the mining bonuses, which are only a part of the rorqs operation.
Just wait for the orca ffs.
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Heart for isk, Balls for risk. |
Foulque
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Posted - 2008.10.06 10:09:00 -
[15]
Originally by: KAELA MENSHA
Surely, if they're macro miners, then what they will have is a rack of PC's running clients for all kinds of MMO's, and so (assuming your basic theory is correct) CCP would need to bring the price of isk below that needed to power some fraction of a computer to make the macro miners move to another game.
If you hav e 2 computors running 2 games for profit.
And 1 game makes more profit, soon you'll have 2 computors playing 1 game
If you have 1 computer playing 2 games for profit and they both make profit, soon you'll have 2 computers running playing 2 games.
One thing that has annoyed alot of people lately has been the siginificant increase in GTC isk cost. On a positive note though that same rise has reduced the $/isk rate which should make isk selling etc... less profitable at the same time.
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KAELA MENSHA
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Posted - 2008.10.06 14:00:00 -
[16]
If you have 1 computer playing 2 games for profit and they both make profit, soon you'll have 2 computers running playing 2 games.[:idea:]
Can you run that one again
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gruktor
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Posted - 2008.10.06 15:44:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Xessej
The best way to get rid of macro miners is for devs to implement the belts as exploration sites only feature discussed here.
So, if this were implemented, miners would have to scan down a belt (via exploration) and then move their toon in? How would that stop macrominers?
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Bloody Rabbit
Jita Miners
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Posted - 2008.10.06 15:54:00 -
[18]
Originally by: gruktor
Edited by: gruktor on 06/10/2008 15:48:02
Originally by: Xessej
The best way to get rid of macro miners is for devs to implement the belts as exploration sites only feature discussed here.
So, if this were implemented, miners would have to scan down a belt (via exploration) and then move their toon in? How would that stop macrominers?
Because it would be too much work for most to write the scipts to macro.
*you would have the script drop probes at each of the bookmarks;
*Then when all bookmarks are covered, scan the system, then warp to point;
*Start mining, warp in alts to belt to continue mining.
Originally by: Shadarle
I notice a lot of people who are very bad at playing the market tend to want CCP to step in and remove the competition from the market so they don't continue coming in last place.[/qu |
Bloody Rabbit
Jita Miners
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Posted - 2008.10.06 15:58:00 -
[19]
As is,
Script to undock,
Warp to belt,
Target keyword in sidebar,
start mining,
set the script to check the size of load,
continue mining,
when full dock and unload,
Loop
Its child's play to write that script.
Originally by: Shadarle
I notice a lot of people who are very bad at playing the market tend to want CCP to step in and remove the competition from the market so they don't continue coming in last place.[/qu |
Gridwalker
Amarr
Divine Power
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Posted - 2008.10.06 20:56:00 -
[20]
Originally by: elric gallach
Not meant as a trolling session, serious question that i would like to see addressed.
You want a serious answer? I'll give you the only answer: so long as someone can make money doing it, there will always be someone doing it.
Any in-game scheme to defeat macro'ers is merely meant as a business challenge, and if the money is there, they will circumvent it, while the innocent suffer--thus actually encouraging more people to purchase isk.
I do not support your proposal. It will melt down the EVE economy, and not only won't it hurt the macros, but it will ultimately make them stronger; it wouldn't make sense for a non-macro to mine anymore, if you need multi-billion isk ships to actually mine enough to make any isk.
-Grid
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.10.06 21:59:00 -
[21]
Actually, his proposal won't do a damned thing.
Combined basket price of minerals can't go too much below 70% of platinum insurance, that's when it would become more profitable to just manufacture and blow up ships instead of selling minerals.
So, at worst, the price of ore will go down a BIT, and just stop there, while craploads of ISK will be entering the economy via "insurance scams".
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Alternate resist display || Mission reward revamp || better nanofix
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ingenting
20th Legion
Southern Cross Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.07 11:45:00 -
[22]
macro != farming
_________________
- "Welcome to EVE, remember to insu *BAAOOM*... Told you, newb." |
Ciliax Jellicoe
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Posted - 2008.10.07 11:58:00 -
[23]
As a complete newbie and novice how does macro mining actually work?
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loki gallach
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Posted - 2008.10.07 12:39:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Xessej
As long as the game relies on static sites as the resource sources and has a client server interface conducive to macroing the macri miners will remain. Making the resource sources dynamic would make macroing significantly more difficult if not outright impossible.
I,m all for the idea of dynamic belts as long as we have the right type of ships/infrastructure to do it. the rorqual with a scan probe bonus would be ideal.
At the moment I have to scan with 1 ship (possibly several systems). Then fly back to start point to get mining ship.
Or have corpmate bring ships in freighter (minus rigs ).then find station, hopefully in the same system.
If not then assemble ships in 1 system and gate to next system. with hauler in tow.
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ingenting
20th Legion
Southern Cross Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.08 07:47:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Ciliax Jellicoe
As a complete newbie and novice how does macro mining actually work?
its a program/script that moves your mouse like u set it. u dont wanna do it tho, will get u banned 
_________________
- "Welcome to EVE, remember to insu *BAAOOM*... Told you, newb." |
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