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nyogen
Gallente
Ninmu Seijaku
Big Bang Quantum
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Posted - 2008.10.07 12:20:00 -
[1]
Edited by: nyogen on 07/10/2008 12:26:34
http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=zeitgeist+addendum&emb=0&
I was wondering how many of you have watched this and what your opinion about this is.
I would also appreciate the input of some of the people that have a financial background about the accuracy of the economic breakdown analysis that was done in the movie.
I was left with mixed feelings... something between day time dreaming and universal conspiracy theory... What about you ?
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Erosie
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2008.10.07 12:27:00 -
[2]
I watched all of the zeitgeist films, and to be honest; it kind of openend my eyes.
I had also a what you named a daydreaming feeling, i wish project venus was a reality..
The world is sick, and as long as the monotary system exist it wont get better..
The movie is true, its no conspiracy, the fact that the US is able to inject 700 billion in their system to save a few bankers just proves everything..
Try to live up to their 5 tips at the end of the movie, maybe it will change someday.
peace
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kor anon
Amarr
Sons Of The Fallen
BROTHERS GRIM.
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Posted - 2008.10.07 13:02:00 -
[3]
theres already a thread on the first page it you care to look. And lol at above posted how can you actively accept what they tell you without actually checking their sources?
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Erosie
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2008.10.07 13:04:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Erosie on 07/10/2008 13:04:29
Just as easy as you accept everything you are being told on the regular news channels without checking their source..
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kor anon
Amarr
Sons Of The Fallen
BROTHERS GRIM.
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Posted - 2008.10.07 13:06:00 -
[5]
but i dont  i take everything i hear with a tremendous pile of salt, and i actually do my own research if time allows it
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nyogen
Gallente
Ninmu Seijaku
Big Bang Quantum
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Posted - 2008.10.07 15:10:00 -
[6]
Edited by: nyogen on 07/10/2008 15:10:01
 Originally by: kor anon
theres already a thread on the first page it you care to look. And lol at above posted how can you actively accept what they tell you without actually checking their sources?
Didn't actually notice the other thread :oops:. Well anyway, I was asking for some specific input from financial background people apart from general impressions. I am still curious what they would have to say, if they actually saw the movie.
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Jim McGregor
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Posted - 2008.10.07 16:51:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Jim McGregor on 07/10/2008 16:53:29
Its not a conspiracy theory. This is the way the system works. You can call it modern slavery or whatever you like. The fact remains, its a hamster wheel that creates a lot of misery for the majority of people on the planet.
Im not sure of a alternate system that would work though. The only reason the Star Trek people dont have the money problems is because they can create anything they want out of thin air... that will take us quite some time to achieve. 
Or a alien landing, providing us with the technology. We would probably make guns though. Lots of guns. And keep killing eachother. After all, its the other people that are evil.
---
Originally by: Roguehalo
Can you nano Titans?
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Sirial Soulfly
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Posted - 2008.10.07 17:51:00 -
[8]
The problem with utopian theories (like the venus project) is that they never work.
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kor anon
Amarr
Sons Of The Fallen
BROTHERS GRIM.
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Posted - 2008.10.07 17:59:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Sirial Soulfly
The problem with utopian theories (like the venus project) is that they never work.
exactly so we have to make do with the lesser of evils.
Hypothetically speacking if we did rise up and remove the system then what? well you'd have to work 50 times harder in order to provide for yourselves because a vast amount of your personal wealth goes out the window. Very few things that you own will have real value, so you have to resort to bartering (which in time will lead to a new currency then a similar system to one you've just removed). Or you become self sufficient which will be a kick in the balls for most people cos they have absolutely 0 xp in those areas. Who honestly gives a shit if the dollar is not really worth anything? it gets you want it gets you what you need, it holds all of your society together.
Typical morons like the person that made zeitgiest complain for the sake of complaining, without though to the possible alternatives
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sg3s
Battlestars
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.07 19:15:00 -
[10]
I see it is very hard to keep a neutral standpoint for this 'item' we're discussing here. I can understand that, the movie explains why it is so hard btw, if you want to know my source...
BTW on the subject of sources, think about it, what they did in the movie is explaining how the system really works in rough terms... In reality this is a bookwork describing the system making is so complicated only few can understand it, deliberately. They told you what their sources are, watch the damn movie, but I bet you don't want to analyze the book works their summary came from.
As for building up a new system, that wouldn't be too hard... well it will, but the concept is quite easy. The large companies, and especially the oil companies need to lose the idea of needing to make profit.... Seriously, that is all that is to it. Then you can use the rest of the old system to build up the new system, think about it.
All the rich people would need to give back a lot of what they have taken... Obviously this will never happen. You will know why, again, when you watched the movie... Nice paradox eh... It's a very fixed loop which we cannot get out of.... UNLESS the loop fails.... Pretty much what is happening right now with the financial market, injecting money will not solve the problem... It will enlarge it, it will make sure the system that is doomed to fail, will fail faster.
2012 was the great prediction by the mayans eh? A new age right? ;P
Originally by: Tarminic
Because even when EVE sucks, it sucks less than every other MMO out there.
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kor anon
Amarr
Sons Of The Fallen
BROTHERS GRIM.
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Posted - 2008.10.07 19:18:00 -
[11]
Originally by: sg3s
The large companies, and especially the oil companies need to lose the idea of needing to make profit.... Seriously, that is all that is to it.
That easy huh? pass me what your smoking.
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sg3s
Battlestars
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.07 19:26:00 -
[12]
Originally by: kor anon
Originally by: sg3s
The large companies, and especially the oil companies need to lose the idea of needing to make profit.... Seriously, that is all that is to it.
That easy huh? pass me what your smoking.
God damn that's fast, and I hate do do this but allow me to quote myself:
Originally by: sg3s
well it will (be hard), but the concept is quite easy.
Ofcourse I realise this will not happen... it's the point of the paragraph after that line.... Your ignorance irritates.
I think I'll just asume you're trolling me next time.
Originally by: Tarminic
Because even when EVE sucks, it sucks less than every other MMO out there.
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kor anon
Amarr
Sons Of The Fallen
BROTHERS GRIM.
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Posted - 2008.10.07 19:29:00 -
[13]
Im sorry i cant take you seriously, when you say 'hard' in implementation then go on to say 'seriously thats all there is to it'
can i get a definitive answer on how easy or hard you think it would be?
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sg3s
Battlestars
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.07 19:36:00 -
[14]
Originally by: kor anon
Im sorry i cant take you seriously, when you say 'hard' in implementation then go on to say 'seriously thats all there is to it'
can i get a definitive answer on how easy or hard you think it would be?
No.
Originally by: Tarminic
Because even when EVE sucks, it sucks less than every other MMO out there.
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Micheal Dietrich
Caldari
Terradyne Networks
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Posted - 2008.10.07 19:40:00 -
[15]
There should be a word for that. Easyhard, yeah. too bad we're stuck at backbreakaslacka phase though.
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kor anon
Amarr
Sons Of The Fallen
BROTHERS GRIM.
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Posted - 2008.10.07 19:45:00 -
[16]
Edited by: kor anon on 07/10/2008 19:47:10
Originally by: Micheal Dietrich
There should be a word for that. Easyhard, yeah. too bad we're stuck at backbreakaslacka phase though.
theres already a phrase for it, 'I actually have no idea' maybe we could shoten that to 'Iahno' sounds pretty funky that
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Roxanna Kell
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2008.10.07 21:36:00 -
[17]
Originally by: kor anon
Im sorry i cant take you seriously
Is it because he s a goon?
Originally by: sg3s
2012 was the great prediction by the mayans eh? A new age right? ;P
Well, It will be nice that we ll have a great WAR or something, Its about time i was getting bored.
With all honesty, If the world was perfect, it wont be a place fit for humans.
Quote:
There is no Dishonor in winning fools, so do it any way you can.
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Glarion Garnier
Federal Defence Union
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Posted - 2008.10.07 22:40:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Glarion Garnier on 07/10/2008 22:42:05
Awesome film. Naturally the proposed solution sounds interesting. How ever how in such a system would the crimes be managed / production / service in relation to the needs. Who does the governing. It's not like ppl get to gether just like that. But they could on a resonably small level.
The prospects that solar, wind etc could cover our energy needs is a no brainer. even a child can figure out means to use sun light for cooking, salt water conversion and for various other uses.
Salt water can be made non salty thru evaporation with the help of consentrated sun rays
1
parabolic mirror (say fiber glass , a mold and maylar anyone) and the parabolic mirrors can be used for elecricity as well.. the hardest part is the building of a solar tracking mechanism.
I'll give you few links here so you can see it for your self how simple it really is.
water purification
Fresnel solar stirling
these solutions have been in front of our nose all this time.
_________________________________
-be vary of the men behind the curtain-
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Feilamya
Minmatar
24th Imperial Crusade
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Posted - 2008.10.07 23:03:00 -
[19]
Originally by: kor anon
theres already a thread on the first page it you care to look. And lol at above posted how can you actively accept what they tell you without actually checking their sources?
For the same reason you accept what they say on CNN without checking their sources: You don't ... or do you?
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Lochmar Fiendhiem
Caldari
Quicksilver Industries and Painful Effects Inc.
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Posted - 2008.10.07 23:46:00 -
[20]
It really is as easy as the oil companies only being allowed to keep a certain % of profits. One of the contributing factors is that all this money is going to the oil companies and not coming back, on top of a score of other issues with the mortgage crisis, etc.
A good total collapse of the stock market is what we need but it would probably kick start ww3 and all that fun times.
bush/cheney '08 via marshal law
Originally by: Halkin
bob is dead, goons are great, cheese is cheesy, there we go no need for any more threads
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Roxanna Kell
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2008.10.08 00:05:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Lochmar Fiendhiem
A good total collapse of the stock market is what we need but it would probably kick start ww3 and all that fun times.
bush/cheney '08 via marshal law
It will be nice, all the eve players can meet up for real and fight a war, least we have our own special training. down with earth.
Quote:
There is no Dishonor in winning fools, so do it any way you can.
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nyogen
Gallente
Ninmu Seijaku
Big Bang Quantum
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Posted - 2008.10.08 05:53:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Sirial Soulfly
The problem with utopian theories (like the venus project) is that they never work.
I thought the movie did a very good job in identifying the effects. The root cause for both the effects and why Soulfly is right could probably be the fact that as a species we are rarely able to work together towards a set of goals unless we are in deep trouble as a group and our survival is in peril.
The problem with that still is that there is always someone, or some group (historically speaking) that amidst the social unrest is able to push forward its own agenda and manipulate the outcome towards its own benefit.
What I didn't understand from the Venus Project idea, which is not in itself very different from the society depicted in Star Trek NG for instance, is what would bring about accountability for one's actions ? e.g.: a surgeon, in a no monetary-no laws system, asked to perform heart surgery, comes in drunk from a party on the "drunk safe Venus Project like highway" and instead of unclogging your artery does a perfect vasectomy on the patient (optimistic scenario) ... then what... ooops ???
Anyway, I think the majority of people would love to live in such an Utopian society but on one condition: If it were to be handed down to them fully ready and functional. Even then it would be an extremely fancy toy which we'd manage to break in record times because at the root of all our problems is that we were raised incrementally, pre-programmed over generations to a set of values which in the end can do nothing else but hit us in the face.
Our limited life span and the way we procreate as a species paired with the frailty of our offspring in the early stages of life is probably the first thing that pushes us towards selfish and appropriation acts. It's always about survival, it's always about better us than them, always about "What have they ever done good to us so why should be do anything good to them ? ". And I am not even debating the morals behind this, it's just the way it is, and might be one of the many reasons why Utopian projects will never work.
Anyway, long story short, I did enjoy some aspects of the movie... the problems are there, but the solution ... wish it were possible. /Me shuffles through the rack to get the Start Trek episodes where the Tolan, the Nox and the Asgard societies are depicted. Maybe one day..., who knows, but there is one thing I am sure of: this is not the right track we are on to get even an inch closer to some of even the modest of human fantasies.
Anyway for those of you that want to take a closer look, here's the linky: Venus Project
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kor anon
Amarr
Sons Of The Fallen
BROTHERS GRIM.
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Posted - 2008.10.08 07:07:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Feilamya
Originally by: kor anon
theres already a thread on the first page it you care to look. And lol at above posted how can you actively accept what they tell you without actually checking their sources?
For the same reason you accept what they say on CNN without checking their sources: You don't ... or do you?
as ive said if you care to look i dont trust any source 100%. And i like to look into it myslef if ive got the time and the subject is important enough to me
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