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wurblewind
The Synenose Accord
Celestial Imperative
10
   |
Posted - 2012.03.31 07:16:00 -
[1] - Quote
Okay, let's face it, I come up with some weird ideas, particularly in the wee hours of the morning (see sig for details  ).
Well, here's another one for your enjoyment: the Electronic Support Vessel.
Storytime:
I've noticed that despite having a large number of remotely applied counter EWAR modules out there, there has never once been a ship class designed to utilize them, unlike their more offensive counterparts. I think it would be great for the game if a new class could be introduced that could use these items to not only counteract hostile EWAR, but to bolster their fleetmates to higher capabilities than normal, without said ships having to pack their own counters, allowing them to pack more utility and adding to the fleet's flexibility. Think of this as the counter to the recon (specifically the combat recon), a sort of "EWAR logi" that has the bonus capability of boosting the fleet's performance. Just as the logi is EVE's "healer", this ship would be EVE's "buffer mage". Now quit griping and cast some "Bless".
Main Points:
1. Cruiser class ship with bonuses toward electronic support (ESUPPT as opposed to EWAR) modules: Projected ECCM, Remote Sensor Boosters, Tracking Links, etc.
2. Intended to counter recon ships by countering their EWAR effects, can also be used to bolster the fleet's capabilities beyond the norm
3. Lightly armed, moderate tank, speed, and sig, a la combat recons
4. Strong enough cap to run multiple modules of their intended ESUPPT without giving them too much of an advantage
5. ESUPPT decided by the EWAR of the ship's race's main enemy, i.e. tracking links for Minmatar to counter Amarr tracking disruptors, remote sebos for Caldari to counter Gallente damps, etc.
6. Can manage several targets, similar to a logistics ship
7. Requires and will get bonuses from the racial cruiser skill and a new t2 skill
8. Racial skill split between scan resolution and primary ESUPPT effectiveness
9. T2 skill bonus to primary ESUPPT effectiveness, potentially to a secondary EWAR counter as well (Maybe cap xfers for the Minmatar version as a neut/vamp counter?)
10. There is presently no role bonus as combat recons do not have one, and the ability to boost the fleet when no EWAR is on the field is enough of an advantage already
11. Would require a remote counter module to Target Painters for the Amarrian variant
That about sums it up, looking forward to some constructive criticism.
-Keep low, fly fast, die well. |
wurblewind
The Synenose Accord
Celestial Imperative
10
|
Posted - 2012.03.31 16:45:00 -
[2] - Quote
Theory for Painter Counter:
Signal Suppression Emitter
Generates a particle field around the target, disrupting incoming sensor wavelengths to reduce detectable electronic footprint.
Lowers target's overall signature radius, making it harder to hit.
Attributes:
Single target
Fitting requirements, range, and cap usage roughly analogous to painters
Magnitude slightly less than painters
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Alx Warlord
SUPERNOVA SOCIETY
Tribal Conclave
88
|
Posted - 2012.03.31 18:12:00 -
[3] - Quote
Nice Idea, although I think that some logistic ships already have this... So, to balance things up Logistics would have to be be split into a second group of ships, that would focus on electronic support ships. |
wurblewind
The Synenose Accord
Celestial Imperative
11
|
Posted - 2012.03.31 20:45:00 -
[4] - Quote
Alx Warlord wrote:Nice Idea, although I think that some logistic ships already have this... So, to balance things up Logistics would have to be be split into a second group of ships, that would focus on electronic support ships.
I know the Basi and Guardian have cap xfers, and I think the Minmatar one has links. So yeah, good point, update time. 
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Gerrick Palivorn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
202
|
Posted - 2012.04.01 06:16:00 -
[5] - Quote
Strangely I like it, just as long as there is a covops cloaky one with jump harmonics 2 I'm +1ing this. |
wurblewind
The Synenose Accord
Celestial Imperative
12
|
Posted - 2012.04.01 06:29:00 -
[6] - Quote
Gerrick Palivorn wrote:Strangely I like it, just as long as there is a covops cloaky one with jump harmonics 2 I'm +1ing this.
Hmmm......I'm not so sure, seeing as these are actually more like logis than recons, but I think I'll add it in as an optional idea.
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Gerrick Palivorn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
202
|
Posted - 2012.04.01 08:11:00 -
[7] - Quote
wurblewind wrote:Gerrick Palivorn wrote:Strangely I like it, just as long as there is a covops cloaky one with jump harmonics 2 I'm +1ing this. Hmmm......I'm not so sure, seeing as these are actually more like logis than recons, but I think I'll add it in as an optional idea.
Could be in the form of an additional subsystem for the Strategic Cruisers, then we all get what we want :) |
wurblewind
The Synenose Accord
Celestial Imperative
12
|
Posted - 2012.04.01 17:08:00 -
[8] - Quote
Gerrick Palivorn wrote:wurblewind wrote:Gerrick Palivorn wrote:Strangely I like it, just as long as there is a covops cloaky one with jump harmonics 2 I'm +1ing this. Hmmm......I'm not so sure, seeing as these are actually more like logis than recons, but I think I'll add it in as an optional idea. Could be in the form of an additional subsystem for the Strategic Cruisers, then we all get what we want :)
I'll go for this. Updating now. 
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Buzzy Warstl
The Strontium Asylum
86
|
Posted - 2012.04.02 11:14:00 -
[9] - Quote
nvm, misread the op. |
Spugg Galdon
Callidus Temple
Forsaken.Empire
127
|
Posted - 2012.04.02 11:23:00 -
[10] - Quote
I would prefer Electronic Support to be a frigate class ship but I agree with (most) of these ideas.
Change it to a frigate and you get my full support |
wurblewind
The Synenose Accord
Celestial Imperative
13
|
Posted - 2012.04.02 12:35:00 -
[11] - Quote
Spugg Galdon wrote:I would prefer Electronic Support to be a frigate class ship but I agree with (most) of these ideas.
Change it to a frigate and you get my full support
Also..... Another concept module could be a Remote Warp Core Stabilizer. It would be a fun role to go and "rescue" people
Hmm.....Not so sure about the frigate part, as I intended these to be a counterpoint to recons and a partner to logis. As a result, I believe a cruiser would be best for the dedicated electronic support t2.
That said, I could see about a frigate that has bonuses in this area, maybe not a full blown t2 equivalent, but maybe as a bonus to, say, the t1 electronics frigs, which could also fit in in the fluff department as well, without making a swarm of various sized, indentically roled t2 ships (who would do such a thing after all ).
As for the remote warp stab, I was avoiding prop jam counters because I couldn't think of a remote anti-web setup, and because, once again, these are for countering recons, not dictors/hictors/ceptors. Once again, I'm willing to compromise, if someone can come up with a lore-friendly way of reversing the webby effect on a friendly ship, in which case I can probably come up with something.
(Maybe like a t2 SAR frig that counters prop jamming, plus a small bonus to ESUPPT, though nowhere near a primary role, as an overall compromise, once again if the lore-friendly web counter appears. )
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Callic Veratar
Power of the Phoenix
171
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Posted - 2012.04.02 15:39:00 -
[12] - Quote
I am in favour of the idea of an ESF (electronic support frigate) which should match the EAF, though the EAFs need to be fixed first.
Tracking Disruptor - Tracking Link
Sensor Damper - Sensor Booster
Nos/Neut - Cap Transfer/Cap Batteries
These three are fine. Maybe some tweaks to their effects and strengths.
ECM - ECCM
ECM needs to be reduced in power for this to be worthwhile. Unless remote ECCM is also stupid powerful, this ship will be useless before it's even launched. Possibly breaks all locks and decreases the maximum number of locks while it's active? ECCM increases number of locks and makes it harder to break locks?
Target Painter - ???
I like the idea of something that reduces sig radius, however it has to be carefully balanced to not let two of such ships park somewhere and be unscannable. Possibly a penalty to sig radius on the ship using the module?
Stasis Web - ???
A counter would be a remote afterburner. Which would only be active while the ship is in range. Could be very interesting and require clustering of small wings of ships.
Warp Disruptor - ???
Allows a single ship to break out of a bubble or scram and use a MWD. Useful, but could easily be overpowered. It would need a cycle time, activate on cycle completion. This sort of module is more of an interceptor counter, though, than EWAR, so maybe a battleship class module? Not sure this one works. |
wurblewind
The Synenose Accord
Celestial Imperative
13
|
Posted - 2012.04.02 16:34:00 -
[13] - Quote
Callic Veratar wrote:ECM - ECCM
ECM needs to be reduced in power for this to be worthwhile. Unless remote ECCM is also stupid powerful, this ship will be useless before it's even launched. Possibly breaks all locks and decreases the maximum number of locks while it's active? ECCM increases number of locks and makes it harder to break locks?
I'm not sure exactly how they compare. ECM modules reduce sensor strength by a set number, but Projected ECCMs increase by a percentage. So it all depends on how strong the target vessels sensors are to begin with, to figure how effective the PECCMs are. I'll have to look into it, but it could be that the PECCMs would have to be switched to a set number to make it more universally effective instead of biased towards bigger ships (since they tend to have better sensor strength).
Callic Veratar wrote:Target Painter - ???
I like the idea of something that reduces sig radius, however it has to be carefully balanced to not let two of such ships park somewhere and be unscannable. Possibly a penalty to sig radius on the ship using the module?
Somewhere, subconciously, I was hoping to come up with that myself. You, sir, are a genius.
Callic Veratar wrote:Stasis Web - ???
A counter would be a remote afterburner. Which would only be active while the ship is in range. Could be very interesting and require clustering of small wings of ships.
Warp Disruptor - ???
Allows a single ship to break out of a bubble or scram and use a MWD. Useful, but could easily be overpowered. It would need a cycle time, activate on cycle completion. This sort of module is more of an interceptor counter, though, than EWAR, so maybe a battleship class module? Not sure this one works.
If I can get an idea exactly how the webs work (in terms of fluff), or come up with an very good excuse if they don't work how I think they doo, then I may have a solution to this. Will check up and get back to you on that.
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wurblewind
The Synenose Accord
Celestial Imperative
13
|
Posted - 2012.04.09 05:47:00 -
[14] - Quote
Did a little research, decided "why not" on the counter prop jamming idea, updated.
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wurblewind
The Synenose Accord
Celestial Imperative
13
|
Posted - 2012.05.09 14:25:00 -
[15] - Quote
Alright, reviving this idea. Anyone with fresh ideas?
Keep low, fly fast, die well. |
mxzf
Shovel Bros
1580
|
Posted - 2012.05.09 14:57:00 -
[16] - Quote
Just a counterpoint, one could argue that ECM is already the counter-ewar. Just some food for thought. |
wurblewind
The Synenose Accord
Celestial Imperative
13
|
Posted - 2012.05.09 15:01:00 -
[17] - Quote
mxzf wrote:Just a counterpoint, one could argue that ECM is already the counter-ewar. Just some food for thought.
And it is a fair argument, at least as long as you're quicker on the draw. But sometimes I want someone else to handle the incoming EWAR so my Widow/Scorp/Falcon/etc. can jam that pesky Hurricane over there.
This handles such a situation.
Keep low, fly fast, die well. |
Loius Woo
PATRIOT KNIGHTS
16
|
Posted - 2012.05.09 16:36:00 -
[18] - Quote
wurblewind wrote:mxzf wrote:Just a counterpoint, one could argue that ECM is already the counter-ewar. Just some food for thought. And it is a fair argument, at least as long as you're quicker on the draw. But sometimes I want someone else to handle the incoming EWAR so my Widow/Scorp/Falcon/etc. can jam that pesky Hurricane over there. This handles such a situation.
Falcon pilots usually (good ones always) Jam Enemy ECM and Logis first. So, ECM is being used right now as the counter EWAR when needed and only reduces damage when there are no EWAR/Logis to jam. |
wurblewind
The Synenose Accord
Celestial Imperative
13
|
Posted - 2012.05.09 21:17:00 -
[19] - Quote
Loius Woo wrote:wurblewind wrote:mxzf wrote:Just a counterpoint, one could argue that ECM is already the counter-ewar. Just some food for thought. And it is a fair argument, at least as long as you're quicker on the draw. But sometimes I want someone else to handle the incoming EWAR so my Widow/Scorp/Falcon/etc. can jam that pesky Hurricane over there. This handles such a situation. Falcon pilots usually (good ones always) Jam Enemy ECM and Logis first. So, ECM is being used right now as the counter EWAR when needed and only reduces damage when there are no EWAR/Logis to jam.
Yes indeed, but wouldn't it make more sense to leave those Falcon pilots for their intended purpose, reducing damage and reps, rather than having them wasting everyone's time jamming each other and leaving the fighters to fend for themselves?
It always seemed to me that gang/fleet fights with EWAR involved tend to split into two seperate battles, the EWAR, and everyone else, with occasional collateral damage. What's the point in jamming the other guys' jammers if they're just going to jam you back, and maybe one other ship?
This gets around that, adding a little more depth and complexity and making sure everyone's interested in everyone, not just the guys who fly the same ship as them.
Keep low, fly fast, die well. |
Dersen Lowery
Children of Armok
Ushra'Khan
21
|
Posted - 2012.05.09 22:08:00 -
[20] - Quote
I wonder what would happen if the categories were collapsed to Electronic Superiority [Frigate|Cruiser], a ship fitted for electronic superiority of all kinds: logistics, cap, neuts, EWAR and ECCM, with the exact specialties and bonuses varying by faction.
It would make things a lot more interesting if you couldn't just look at a Falcon and know why it was there, or a Guardian, or a Maulus. |
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