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Minmatar needs a serious boost in the cap department

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Vortekz	Posted - 2008.10.12 17:13:00 - [1] Comparison in Eve Fitting Tool (just the tank) [piloting the the nid with ALL level 5 skills and faction mods) -Nidhoggur- Low: Capital Armor Repairer x2, True Sansha Energized Reactive Membrane, True Sansha Thermic Hardner, True Sansha Kinetic Hardner, True Sansha Explosive Hardner Stats: 1141 Sustained Defence / 2711 Reinforced Defence --------------compared to-------------- [Pilot with absolute minimal skills needed to pilot ship and operate modules, using NON faction, T1 fittings] -Chimera- Mid: Capital Shield Booster Invulnerability I x3 Shield Boost Amp I Stats: 323 Sustained / 2474 Reinforced Now call me crazy but that's a huge difference, and to put it in perspective, lets look at both pilotes at ALL level 5 Nid: 1141/2711 Chimera: 676/2775 now, lets compare them with the chimera and a full tank setup, using faction mods. (just picking random faction mods, not necessarily the best) -Chimera Mids:- dread gurista shield boost amp dread gurista Invul x3 and I will leave the last two for sake of Ewar or Cap Chimera Low: 1 damage control II that still leaves space to add even MORE tank for the chimera, where as the Nid is already maxed out.. so whats the stats of this setup? -Chimera: 1280/5091- -Nid: 1141/2711- The Nid maxed out doesnt even come CLOSE to a Chimera thats not even maxed out for tanking.. all lvl1 skills on chimera will nearly out tank a maxed Nid..
Lance Fighter Amarr	Posted - 2008.10.12 17:20:00 - [2] In cap warfare, personal tank means little. group tank means everything. Therefore, remote reps and such are win. Doesnt really matter beyond that. Originally by: Dheorl Originally by: Akita T yawn I never knew it was possible to stretch your ego THAT much in 1 post
flashfreaking LFC Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2008.10.12 17:24:00 - [3] Been awhile since I saw an EFT warrior... Poof, and you are dead. (ingame) Saint unlocked my sig!!! For this I will buy her unlimited amounts of Beer at FF! OH hai! Thanks!!!!! ~Saint
SSgt Sniper Gallente MAIDS	Posted - 2008.10.12 17:33:00 - [4] Originally by: Lance Fighter In cap warfare, personal tank means little. group tank means everything. Therefore, remote reps and such are win. Doesnt really matter beyond that. Can't remote rep in seige. ------- CEO of Maids. No I didn't pick the name. I've grown rather fond of it though.
Marcus Druallis Quantum Industries RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.10.12 17:47:00 - [5] Originally by: SSgt Sniper Originally by: Lance Fighter In cap warfare, personal tank means little. group tank means everything. Therefore, remote reps and such are win. Doesnt really matter beyond that. Can't remote rep in seige. No one said you should triage your carrier. We all know that Dreads cant be, and that is not the argument. Better hope you exit siege before you pop. And if not, well, don't fly what you can't afford to lose. --
Mako Nova	Posted - 2008.10.12 18:07:00 - [6] In order to steer this away from "don't fly what you can't afford to lose, and 100 other pro-tips to derail a thread" and get back to the topic at hand, you seem correct in that the Phoenix tanks better than the Nid. Can we compare dps? Also, how does the Nid's tank compare to the Gallente and Amarr versions?
SSgt Sniper Gallente MAIDS	Posted - 2008.10.12 18:10:00 - [7] Edited by: SSgt Sniper on 12/10/2008 18:10:46 Originally by: Marcus Druallis Originally by: SSgt Sniper Originally by: Lance Fighter In cap warfare, personal tank means little. group tank means everything. Therefore, remote reps and such are win. Doesnt really matter beyond that. Can't remote rep in seige. No one said you should triage your carrier. We all know that Dreads cant be, and that is not the argument. Better hope you exit siege before you pop. And if not, well, don't fly what you can't afford to lose. I'm making the point because he said cap warfare, to me that implies dreads as well as carriers. Supposedly the Naglfar suffers the same problem too btw. ------- CEO of Maids. No I didn't pick the name. I've grown rather fond of it though.
Vortekz	Posted - 2008.10.12 18:10:00 - [8] even if its about support, and not defense, the ship should have its sensor strength increased to make up for the severe nerf of a tank, that bonus to repping is absolutly useless when you have just one ship jamming you
Lance Fighter Amarr	Posted - 2008.10.12 18:12:00 - [9] cap warfare = cap on cap action. When carriers are involved, I call it cap warfare. Not carrier warfare, cap warfare. Ergo, when you are discussing carrier fittings and defense, its CAP WARFARE. And in such instances, nothing matters except remote repping really. And btw, nothing can compare to the archon's tank, except an aeon :p Originally by: Dheorl Originally by: Akita T yawn I never knew it was possible to stretch your ego THAT much in 1 post
SSgt Sniper Gallente MAIDS	Posted - 2008.10.12 18:13:00 - [10] Originally by: Mako Nova In order to steer this away from "don't fly what you can't afford to lose, and 100 other pro-tips to derail a thread" and get back to the topic at hand, you seem correct in that the Phoenix tanks better than the Nid. Can we compare dps? Also, how does the Nid's tank compare to the Gallente and Amarr versions? Honestly, it's been pointed out somewhere beore that the Chimera can solotank better than the others. (The capital shield booster is worth 2 cap armor reps.) Is there enough mids to shield tank the nidhogger? ------- CEO of Maids. No I didn't pick the name. I've grown rather fond of it though.
SSgt Sniper Gallente MAIDS	Posted - 2008.10.12 18:20:00 - [11] Originally by: Lance Fighter cap warfare = cap on cap action. When carriers are involved, I call it cap warfare. Not carrier warfare, cap warfare. Ergo, when you are discussing carrier fittings and defense, its CAP WARFARE. And in such instances, nothing matters except remote repping really. And btw, nothing can compare to the archon's tank, except an aeon :p Honestly, if you are talking strictly carrier to carrier, it's not really cap warfare. Mainly because since most carrier pilots have at least a faction sb if not officer or multiples, someone I know once pointed out- "Watching two carriers fight is like watching two ****s **. It's boring, and wrong, and neither of them is going to get anywhere without outside intervention." Meh, heck with it, off to bed with me. ------- CEO of Maids. No I didn't pick the name. I've grown rather fond of it though.
Vortekz	Posted - 2008.10.12 18:24:00 - [12] Edited by: Vortekz on 12/10/2008 18:25:06 Originally by: SSgt Sniper Originally by: Mako Nova In order to steer this away from "don't fly what you can't afford to lose, and 100 other pro-tips to derail a thread" and get back to the topic at hand, you seem correct in that the Phoenix tanks better than the Nid. Can we compare dps? Also, how does the Nid's tank compare to the Gallente and Amarr versions? Honestly, it's been pointed out somewhere beore that the Chimera can solotank better than the others. (The capital shield booster is worth 2 cap armor reps.) Is there enough mids to shield tank the nidhogger? If you were to use the Nid for a similar tank 1x Cap shield booster, 3x invul II's 1x Shield amp II you get 1326/3233, which is better then the maxed armor tanking, but the problem is you only get 8mins of cap with 3x CCC, you would have to fill 4 of your lows with CPR II's leaving you with 2 low slots
Chaos Incarnate Faceless Logistics	Posted - 2008.10.12 18:27:00 - [13] ITT: complaining that carrier with tanking bonuses is better at tanking than carrier with non-tanking bonuses In other news, water wet, sky blue __________ Cannot read from face Abort, Retry, Fail?
Vortekz	Posted - 2008.10.12 18:36:00 - [14] Edited by: Vortekz on 12/10/2008 18:36:50 Originally by: Chaos Incarnate ITT: complaining that carrier with tanking bonuses is better at tanking than carrier with non-tanking bonuses In other news, water wet, sky blue I am not complaining that the Nid is not as good a tanker, its not even comparible... the only difference in bonus's between the chimera and the nid is a 5% to resistance... If you compare the two ships using the tank's i listed above, but chimera all lvl1 skills, and the nid still all at lvl5, It still gets 553/4412... Having all the skills at lvl5 for the nid pilot should make up for the 5% resist bonus the chimera makes easily, and considering that stat is with carrier level1, its only a 5% bounus no top of those hardners.
Vortekz	Posted - 2008.10.12 18:39:00 - [15] Its ridiculous that a ship with 1 repper, and basic modules, all level1/bare minimal skills can not just out perform, but completely shame a ship with 2 reppers, maxed skills and faction modules
CrayC Gallente CrayC Inc.	Posted - 2008.10.12 18:42:00 - [16] I'll completly ignore that this thread looks like it's about capital ships and go by the thread-title instead. No, Minmatar does not need a cap boost. Their weapons take little (projectiles) to no (missiles) cap, so all the have to worry about, is keeping their reps running and they can still fight. With the current capacitor capacity on Minmatar ships, they can do that just fine...
Vortekz	Posted - 2008.10.12 18:47:00 - [17] Originally by: CrayC I'll completly ignore that this thread looks like it's about capital ships and go by the thread-title instead. No, Minmatar does not need a cap boost. Their weapons take little (projectiles) to no (missiles) cap, so all the have to worry about, is keeping their reps running and they can still fight. With the current capacitor capacity on Minmatar ships, they can do that just fine... there
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong	Posted - 2008.10.12 18:48:00 - [18] yes we all know allready in fact the CSM hadmeeting with CCP about this issue. Or it was beaten to death I don't remember :P
Vortekz	Posted - 2008.10.12 18:55:00 - [19] Originally by: MotherMoon yes we all know allready in fact the CSM hadmeeting with CCP about this issue. Or it was beaten to death I don't remember :P My bad, you are very much correct... I never read the minutes from the CSM stuff.. Rebalance Capital Ships Currently, a lot of players hold the opinion that Minmatar capital ships in particular are weaker compared to the capital ships of the other factions. The issue was voted as follows: Ankhesentapemkah - Aye Bane Glorious - Aye Dierdra Vaal - Aye Hardin - Nay Inanna Zuni - Aye Jade Constantine - Aye LaVista Vista - Aye Serenity Steele - Nay Tusko Hopkins - Aye This issue was passed.
Chaos Incarnate Faceless Logistics	Posted - 2008.10.12 18:58:00 - [20] Originally by: Vortekz Edited by: Vortekz on 12/10/2008 18:36:50 Originally by: Chaos Incarnate ITT: complaining that carrier with tanking bonuses is better at tanking than carrier with non-tanking bonuses In other news, water wet, sky blue I am not complaining that the Nid is not as good a tanker, its not even comparible... the only difference in bonus's between the chimera and the nid is a 5% to resistance... If you compare the two ships using the tank's i listed above, but chimera all lvl1 skills, and the nid still all at lvl5, It still gets 553/4412... Having all the skills at lvl5 for the nid pilot should make up for the 5% resist bonus the chimera makes easily, and considering that stat is with carrier level1, its only a 5% bounus no top of those hardners. The slot layout and bonuses of the nidhoggur are not designed for solo ubertanking, it's designed as a more specialized remote rep platform. I think that minmatar capitals in general are in need of moar love, but complaining that a minmatar capital isn't an ubersolotanker when it's not designed to be is silly __________ Cannot read from face Abort, Retry, Fail?

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