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Taihira
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Posted - 2008.10.14 12:55:00 -
[1]
inspired by, but not about the ghost training announcement (so please, avoid talking about it, and having the thread locked).
As time goes on, and Eve's player base has got bigger, CCP has become more professional.
but in doing so, it's reached a point where announcements that are clearly a little bit controversial are announced with barely a 48 hour notice. Are CCP failing to demonstrate effective public relations, effectively losing the plot, and throwing away 8 years of PR with their fiercly loyal customer base, as such gaffes end up coming over as insulting to many customers.
Or, are CCP's actions entirely in line with what a professional company, producing content for their business should be doing? Are the eve players expecting too much in terms of fluid, two-way interaction with the development staff. CCP has grown from two dozen members to being a world-leading studio with outlying sub-studios globally.
Discuss?
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Me, I miss the old days, CCP's lost a lot of the personal touch. But I think that it's unavoidable, sadly, the realities are that no company can have that close a relationship with its customers on such a scale.
How that closeness of communication may be regained, I dont know...
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Taihira
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Posted - 2008.10.14 12:55:00 -
[2]
inspired by, but not about the ghost training announcement (so please, avoid talking about it, and having the thread locked).
As time goes on, and Eve's player base has got bigger, CCP has become more professional.
but in doing so, it's reached a point where announcements that are clearly a little bit controversial are announced with barely a 48 hour notice. Are CCP failing to demonstrate effective public relations, effectively losing the plot, and throwing away 8 years of PR with their fiercly loyal customer base, as such gaffes end up coming over as insulting to many customers.
Or, are CCP's actions entirely in line with what a professional company, producing content for their business should be doing? Are the eve players expecting too much in terms of fluid, two-way interaction with the development staff. CCP has grown from two dozen members to being a world-leading studio with outlying sub-studios globally.
Discuss?
---
Me, I miss the old days, CCP's lost a lot of the personal touch. But I think that it's unavoidable, sadly, the realities are that no company can have that close a relationship with its customers on such a scale.
How that closeness of communication may be regained, I dont know...
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CrayC
Gallente CrayC Inc.
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Posted - 2008.10.14 12:57:00 -
[3]
This IS about the ghost training, moderation of the forums etc. So IBTL...
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CrayC
Gallente CrayC Inc.
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Posted - 2008.10.14 12:57:00 -
[4]
This IS about the ghost training, moderation of the forums etc. So IBTL...
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Dmian
Gallente The Scope
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Posted - 2008.10.14 12:58:00 -
[5]
This is meta-discussion, un-productive and irrelvant, IMHO. ----
Eve Alpha - The font of Eve - Get it here |
Dmian
Gallente The Scope
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Posted - 2008.10.14 12:58:00 -
[6]
This is meta-discussion, un-productive and irrelvant, IMHO. ----
Eve Alpha - The font of Eve - Get it here |
Sheriff Jones
Amarr Clinical Experiment
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Posted - 2008.10.14 12:59:00 -
[7]
As only a mere mhmhm % of players actually come to where the info is, nope
It doesn't matter if they announce it at all, if the changes come in any case.
Only reason for teling people of changes is to be nice, and 48 hours is enough time for that.
(even if 48 hours is exaggarating )
My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit. |
Sheriff Jones
Amarr Clinical Experiment
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Posted - 2008.10.14 12:59:00 -
[8]
As only a mere mhmhm % of players actually come to where the info is, nope
It doesn't matter if they announce it at all, if the changes come in any case.
Only reason for teling people of changes is to be nice, and 48 hours is enough time for that.
(even if 48 hours is exaggarating )
My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit. |
Taihira
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Posted - 2008.10.14 13:12:00 -
[9]
Originally by: CrayC This IS about the ghost training, moderation of the forums etc. So IBTL...
well it certainly does'nt have anything to do with moderation.
it's only to do with ghost training in that this PR release made me think about the way CCP have changed over the years.
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Taihira
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Posted - 2008.10.14 13:12:00 -
[10]
Originally by: CrayC This IS about the ghost training, moderation of the forums etc. So IBTL...
well it certainly does'nt have anything to do with moderation.
it's only to do with ghost training in that this PR release made me think about the way CCP have changed over the years.
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Chaos Incarnate
Faceless Logistics
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Posted - 2008.10.14 13:18:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Chaos Incarnate on 14/10/2008 13:19:42 tbh, i think if people stopped thinking the sky was falling every time blue bars appeared on a forum or a dev blog was posted it'd go a heck of a long way toward allowing the developers to mingle with players more, especially about balance changes
Edit: also, IBTL __________
Sig by Neth'Rae Cannot read from face Abort, Retry, Fail? FFFFFF |
Rhatar Khurin
Minmatar Native Freshfood
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Posted - 2008.10.14 13:22:00 -
[12]
I still have never seen CCP say something irrational or stupid.
It's merely the massive amount of whiners that make such mole hills into mountains.
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IR Scoutar
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.10.14 13:22:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Chaos Incarnate Edited by: Chaos Incarnate on 14/10/2008 13:19:42 tbh, i think if people stopped thinking the sky was falling every time blue bars appeared on a forum or a dev blog was posted it'd go a heck of a long way toward allowing the developers to mingle with players more, especially about balance changes
Edit: also, IBTL
problem is these days the sky is actualy falling once blue bars appear and its not because of "comunity managers" or prism x who is a delightful exeption to the rule
also, your edit
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Aclyn Seriy
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2008.10.14 13:25:00 -
[14]
It seems to me that some of the older players thinks that EVE belongs to them. They scream "How dare CCP do this to OUR game!" while they threaten to ragequit and take their 3+ accounts with them.
CCP has grown as a company over the last 6-7 years, they changed from what was effectively a little 10-20 man operation to being a company with over 300+ staff in 3-4 countries. Expecting the relationship between the customers and the creators to remain the same was inevitably going to end in disappointment for someone. Lines of communication shift and change over time, what once seemed like a friendly chat now feels more like a job interview, what once seemed like a chat between you and your mate about new and exciting changes to the game now seems the way it should, like a business announcing certain policy and operational changes.
CCP cannot be expected to restrict it's earning potential, nor its standard business practices because a select few customers can't let go of the past. EVE has grown up people, it's flown the coop so to speak. It's no longer a child that needs close attention from its parents, the Devs and the gamers, it stands on its own now as must you. EVE isn't a family anymore, get used to it.
Originally by: techzer0 I'm the failboat captain
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Dr Sheepbringer
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Posted - 2008.10.14 13:37:00 -
[15]
I do think that a issue like this that concerns alts and accounts (well kinda) should have been informed far earlier. So that those players could go and buy gamecards for those accounts they want to keep. For a change like this...definetly too fast (I'm not affected by it at all, but in general...i don't like the way it's being done). As for the idea of shutting down ghostraining, well I think it's ok. Not the most evil thing to do. Reasonable, but at least give people some time to buy those accounts...
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Demitria Fernir
Caldari Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2008.10.14 13:38:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Aclyn Seriy It seems to me that some of the older players thinks that EVE belongs to them. They scream "How dare CCP do this to OUR game!" while they threaten to ragequit and take their 3+ accounts with them.
new players also do it, if you watch closely. _______________________________________________ 10100110010100101010011010100101001100101110101 I will Conquer My Signature Somewhere in the future 10100110010100101010011010100101001100101110101 |
Dr Sheepbringer
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Posted - 2008.10.14 13:46:00 -
[17]
The thing that amazes me the most is that old and new are like OMG!! they are nerfing!! And whine about it untill everyone is ready pod them twice, perhaps three times. I think we should be USED TO THE NERFS! Do you guys/girls seriously think that Eve is perfect and balanced now?
Nerfs come and go. Adapt, find a new pwnager and have fun untill they nerf that one too. It's not like we fight with sticks and stones in real life either. Last time i checked muskets lost to uzi's, and uzi's lost to bombs.
It's not just about new and better modules, it's about the getting the frigging balance done first for the ships. Those babies are far from balanced.
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Chaos Incarnate
Faceless Logistics
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Posted - 2008.10.14 13:48:00 -
[18]
Originally by: IR Scoutar
Originally by: Chaos Incarnate Edited by: Chaos Incarnate on 14/10/2008 13:19:42 tbh, i think if people stopped thinking the sky was falling every time blue bars appeared on a forum or a dev blog was posted it'd go a heck of a long way toward allowing the developers to mingle with players more, especially about balance changes
Edit: also, IBTL
problem is these days the sky is actualy falling once blue bars appear and its not because of "comunity managers" or prism x who is a delightful exeption to the rule
also, your edit
Yes, but these things become self-fulfilling prophecies. The developers can only post when they're announcing the sky-is-falling level posts because any casual posts about balance issues become sky-is-falling level posts. The exception is issues that have only one side, really, such as bug fixing or carebearing improvements __________
Sig by Neth'Rae Cannot read from face Abort, Retry, Fail? FFFFFF |
Aloriana Jacques
Amarr Royal Amarr Institute
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Posted - 2008.10.14 14:01:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Aloriana Jacques on 14/10/2008 14:01:18
Originally by: Dr Sheepbringer I think we should be USED TO THE NERFS!
I'm still amazed that, for a game where the players constantly claim to be much more mature and disciplined and understand then those playing the next popullar MMO, people seem to only come together to whine, demand rolebacks, and otherwise be jackasses to CCP or other places instead of seeing the big picture. - - - Aloriana Jacques - Skill Sheet
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Pan Crastus
Anti-Metagaming League
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Posted - 2008.10.14 14:02:00 -
[20]
In trying to justify their actions with being a "professional company", CCP have also raised the bar for themselves regarding what their "customers" will find acceptable and what not: petition response time, bugs, crappy UI etc. - we did forgive them far too much because we thought they were a cool small company and not a bunch of greedy people milking some MMO that other people wrote.
How to PVP: 1. buy ISK with GTCs, 2. fit cloak, learn aggro mechanics, 3. buy second account for metagaming
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Rhatar Khurin
Minmatar Native Freshfood
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Posted - 2008.10.14 14:07:00 -
[21]
I guess the only people who ever post on the forums to express their feelings on changes are the rather "excitable" types anyway.
In another sense, those who threaten to "emoragequit" could be considered consumer-suicide-bombers" Hmm, anyway.
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Aloriana Jacques
Amarr Royal Amarr Institute
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Posted - 2008.10.14 14:08:00 -
[22]
A company out to make money?! WHAT ARE THE CHANCES?! - - - Aloriana Jacques - Skill Sheet
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agent apple
The Priory
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Posted - 2008.10.14 14:11:00 -
[23]
EVE, It's better than WOW!
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Alex Vox
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Posted - 2008.10.14 14:16:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Pan Crastus [...] UI etc. - we did forgive them far too much because we thought they were a cool small company and not a bunch of greedy people milking some MMO that other people wrote.
ah the good times
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Taihira
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Posted - 2008.10.14 16:32:00 -
[25]
interesting spread of opinions.
just for the record, I'm not going to waa-emorage-quit-my-47-alts at any new release. I just get on with playing the game I've loved for years. I miss the more personal feel it had years back, but I'm mostly curious about other's views.
Thanks to all who replied for their views.
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Mike Takumi
Caldari hirr Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2008.10.14 17:11:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Aloriana Jacques A company out to make money?! WHAT ARE THE CHANCES?!
Them being out to make money is not a problem, but when it becomes the driving force for everything they do, then despite the quality of a game, players should quit on principal. Especially when just a few years ago, every change they made was about making the game better, not trying to maximize profits. But lately we get changes like removing 30 and 90 day GTC's and make 60s only, and make them as much as 90 days were. Then they eradicate suicide ganking so that empire carebears (the largest part of their base) stop emoragequiting. And now this. Remember when we used to get multiple dev blogs a month? Now we may see one or two. They used to communicate with the playerbase freely, now we have to pick a scant few people to talk to CCP. And when CCP does talk to us, they lie thru their teeth and have to propagandize everything. It's a completely different company than it used to be. /rant
I'll still play with my 12 accounts, but I don't like the path CCP has been on for the last 6-8 months.
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Xeronn
Amarr Ordo Drakonis Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.14 21:45:00 -
[27]
Well , it is what brought me to EvE , above the "game" itself
All i heard, people i`ve been talking to, told me about how CCP was dedicated to making a good game better and keeping the loyal playerbase
EvE is allso the first MMO I pay for , but guess the sad truth is that "my" kind of subscriber is a real insignificant minority and the "game" is about the sheeps that jump from WoW to LOTR to whatever
Personaly I would NEVER pay for ANYTHING from SOE, just because the way SOE acts/handles it`s customer base, (insert a lot of names instead of sony aswell)
Guess what i`m saying is I can deal with bugs, features i dont agree with, etc as long as i can see a real desire from the devs to improve things , as long as they can comunicate (YES DAMMIT, MMO`s are a huge time investment, and personally i want to know ahead the general picture of where the game is heading so i can decide if i`ll hang around or not)plans, ideeas and general directions
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Armoured C
Gallente Federation of Freedom Fighters Executive Outcomes
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Posted - 2008.10.14 21:48:00 -
[28]
Originally by: agent apple
EVE, It's better than WOW!
ahh great the hamster are being replaced by humans
The EvE LifeÖ Blog bringing you the blogs that really matter working in conjunction with EVE Network NewsÖ |
NereSky
Gallente Trinity Nova Trinity Nova Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.14 21:56:00 -
[29]
Tbh its all down to customer service imo, unfortunately CCP have a innate lack of and as time go's by it seems to get worse,
What they seem to have done after building a sandbox for players to err well play in they covertly built a 2nd one to stick their heads in, i used to think they cared and maybe once they did but now i know they dont what so ever and have learned to polish up their appearance of caring and laughing during their T2 coffee breaks.
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Glengrant
TOHA Heavy Industries
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Posted - 2008.10.14 22:10:00 -
[30]
CCP ain't the problem.
Foaming at their mouths emo-raging forumites are.
The loud minority.
The GD instant-mob is very dependable.
For those not around long time - this happens from time to time. Something happens that makes some people heads explode in righteous rage over some silly thing (be it a re-balancing or now the removal of a non-feature) - the insta-mob appears and announces quittage at epic levels.
A month later EVE is not dead, subs are as high or higher as ever. New players don't know what thne fuss was about. Many of those who threatened to quite are still or again around and some will even have calmed down enough to realize that it wasn't such a big deal.
Oh the rage we had over WT0 or WCS or drone changes or a dozen other pseudo-super-horrible things that turned out all right in the end.
If the GD prophets had any real power of precognition EVE would have closed 3 years ago, BoB would rule all of 0.0 and everybody would have quit.
Nothing new to see. --- Save the forum: Think before you post. ISK BUYER = LOOSER EVE TV- Bring it back!
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